Auto is better than manual transmission

[DIA1974]

This is a very complicated question. First off, my instincts say to say "Manual is faster", because that is a well known fact and I use manual. But now thinking about it, the way GT5 does it, it makes it very complicated to decide.

Basically, there are many different types of manuals and autos, and some are in GT5 and some aren't.

1. Real automatic transmission - this is a real auto. It has a torque converter and has Park neutral reverse drive.
NOT IN GT5.

2. GT5 Auto transmission - this is a manual transmission that is shifted by the computer. GT5 chooses when to shift and it shifts for you.
The point of interest here, however, is the manual trans. it emulates is a DCT. Meaning no time is lost with the clutch during shifts. The only time that is lost is that the computer cannot effectively judge when the right time to shift is.
IN GT5

3. Manual (DCT) - this is the manual in GT5 if you are using a DS3 or the paddles in the DFP/DFGT/G25/G27/Thrustmaster/Fanatec.
No time is lost with the clutch during shifts, and the user is able to judge when to shift, usually leading to better lap times.
IN GT5

4. Manual (H-Shifter and Clutch) - this is the manual on GT5 if you are using th clutch and H-shifter on G25/G27/Thrustmaster/Fanatec.
Time IS lost with the clutch during shifts, but the user is still able to decide when to shift.
IN GT5

So...... Assuming you know what you are doing, number 3 is the fastest. The debate, however, would be whether it is faster to use number 2 or number 4.
In my opinion, if you are good, number 4 will be faster.

In conclusion, I think manual will always be faster, just keep in mind with all the autos and manuals floating around, there is a difference between them, and that might be causing lots of confusion in this thread.

Agree very much with this, the manual shift in GT5 is more like the semi-auto paddle shift in modern cars (DS3 and paddle shifters) - I use the DS3 manual and don't 'lift' during gear changes, therefore its no different to auto other than I control the precise shift time, and can short shift up and down as required, something the auto doesn't cater for.

 

[analog]

Personally I find auto better than manual because you won't lose precious seconds mistakenly changing gear and you get maximum output

Unless you have aids all off and you don't have a 4wd car auto is the way to go

A bit odd to claim auto is better simply because you can't seem to use manual properly.
So auto might be better for you simply because it seems to be your only option right now, keep practising though to get your gearchanges right and you'll never look back for all the different reasons already mentioned in this thread.

Drag racing is one of the few competitions where automatics (specifically torque-converter automatic gearboxes) have the lead for seamless and always consistent gear shifting.
As I mentioned before, though, the "automatic/AT" option that is in GT5 does not imply a real automatic transmission. It's more like a driving aid which does the manual work for you (in an unoptimized way).

By the way, there are many automatic gearbox equipped cars in GT5 (especially kei-cars and japanese passenger cars), however very few of them actually behave like torque-converter equipped ones (just some Mercedes-Benz cars, that I remember). And the few ones that do, only shift gear at redline, as usual. PD really missed the mark on this aspect of driving physics/accuracy.

Nice to see people understand (not only you though) auto in GT5 (and previous GT's as well as most racing games) is simply a driving aid, it's not a programmed auto transmission specific to a certain car but GT5 being programmed to shift "manually".
It's also nice to see people being appreciative of the idea of proper automatics being implemented for those cars not available in real life as manual, it's actually why I created my first thread here.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125469

 

[MadBullBunny]

People saying you can rev higher in manual. I already noticed when you pass the redline the acceleration is slower then if would you would up shift into the next gear. In auto it shifts right when it reaches the redline. I know this for a fact and I know auto is much faster for drag racing in lower hp cars. When you reach in the 700s and above. Starting out in 2nd gear or more will make you quicker.

I disagree with people saying auto not knowing what you want it to do. For fun I left auto on one day for drifting just and i did as good as I would with manual on. PD made auto for unexperienced players and made auto almost as good as manual. Manual is for people who like the real feel.

 

[ScariestGariest]

take a look at top level dragster (top fuel and funny car for instance): all use automatic trannys

Terrible example. No one can shift through 6 gears in 4 seconds.

Manual is faster in almost every case.

There is no reason this thread is this long. If anyone believes automatic is still faster try doing some REAL research instead of giving wet noodle examples and saying "well I won".

Giant fail.

 

[GT5Pro]

Automatics, in real life, are very present at drag strips across the globe. The true strength of an auto comes from its consistensy, not speed gained. It actually eats up a little more power than a manual, but many drag cars more than make up for the power loss by gobs of power and torque. But in bracket racing, I would absolutely choose an auto over manual if I wanted to win the competition. In GT5 however, Manual trans forever. The benifits in the game to a manual trans is stunning. Auto just isn't my style.

 

[freedomweasel]

People saying you can rev higher in manual. I already noticed when you pass the redline the acceleration is slower then if would you would up shift into the next gear. In auto it shifts right when it reaches the redline. I know this for a fact and I know auto is much faster for drag racing in lower hp cars. When you reach in the 700s and above. Starting out in 2nd gear or more will make you quicker.

I disagree with people saying auto not knowing what you want it to do. For fun I left auto on one day for drifting just and i did as good as I would with manual on. PD made auto for unexperienced players and made auto almost as good as manual. Manual is for people who like the real feel.

To the first point, yes, you'll likely lose some power past redline. However, it can be better to hold the rev limiter between close corners rather than have the car upshift (zero power), then accelerate for a half second, downshift (zero power) and then take the next corner. This is where manuals have an enormous advantage.

To your second point, just because you did just as well with auto as you did in manual doesn't mean manual is the same as auto. It likely means you aren't very good with manual. (no offense meant)

 

[Duck]

Automatic will never predict what you want to do next. Manual will always be faster. And I can let the revs climb a little higher than the auto will.

or a big lower with some cars

If given a straight line starting from point a to b are you sure manual will be faster ?

Manual is faster. Stop.
1) you shift gears at ideal rpm, not at redline
2) you can overrev a little uphill, or undershift if needed
3) you can enter a corner the gear you want, to help fighting understeer (or avoid oversteer)
4) you avoid up-down-up-down in some conditions

 

[checkyoursix]

Before all the manual trans users get too full of themselves about their GT skills, never forget that GT doesn't model a MT like in real life at all. It's *much* easier in game.

I usually play with MT in-game and I can't overrev in a downshift, I can't miss a shift (they're sequential shifters in-game), the game blips the throttle for me coming into a corner, theres no loss of turbo boost during upshifts, there's no double clutching I have to do to shift into first etc.

Now automated manual gearboxes do some of these things IRL. A few street cars have no-lift shift, like Chevy HHR SS. However no cars have a transmission that holds your hand like in GT5. Next time you MT drivers drive remember to match revs at each corner and clutch in to avoid a stall under hard braking to simulate reality. If you overrev on a downshift throw your controller down because you just killed your car and no limiter can save you.

If the AT mode is faster it's because PD had to have nerfed the auto trans "intelligence" because the game can certainly calculate proper shift points better than I can. The AI cars are all shifting auto I assure you and they can beat you fine because PD makes it so.

Which is faster? Proven in-game to be manual by players. This is from actual testing because real world comparisons don't work here. And you can't bring GT knowledge of transmissions back to real life, GT generalizes too much for that.

 

[go4gold]

IRL i prefer manual and can control a car quite well, in GT5 with a controller i just cant do manual, with a wheel, pedals and gearstick i can drive manual and it is indeed faster than relying on auto, but for controllers it just doesnt all come together in my head, im all over the place either too slow or way to fast and overcooking it, switch back to a wheel and clutch pedals and im much faster.

@checkyoursix - youre right, i did a miss-gear on the way home tonight, not concentrating, looking through my radio and i hit 3rd instead of 5th, but IRL you also realise almost instantly youve done something wrong, it was almost subconcious that i immediately put my foot back on the clutch even before 3rd had engaged and re shifted to 5th.

The game no way replicates this kind of driver-car telepathy lol

 

[Zenith]

Stupid thread is stupid.

Everyone with any morsel of driving skill/common sense understands that a manual is far better than an auto unless you lack the basic ability to remember to pull a level/paddle when the noise gets loud. If people want to live in denial and say "I drive automatic because it's better, not because I'm unskilled and slow" then let them. This goes double for GT5 where a clutch isn't necessary.

 

[McLaren]

It would be still possible to have the best of the two worlds for everybody.
Replace the automatic/manual assist with an additional switchable driving aid called "Gear Shifting Assist" that automates any manual operations only if the car's transmission allows them.
When set to ON, the cpu does everything for you.
When set to Semi, the cpu leaves the driver only the job to select gear shift up/down, while it does the rest (clutchwork, selecting the best shifting method available, rev-matching, etc). Basically like the current MT mode.
When set to OFF, all is up to the driver (even PRND321 selection on automatic gearboxes).

Which is exactly oppositelock was saying. On cars that allow it.

You're still going to alienate the buyers who do not want to shift to in any car.

So why bother implementing it?

Why bother asking such a stupid question? Because they still can for those who do want to shift. The gear changes in this game are all the same, regardless of car.

 

[Slurm]

Apart from maybe being faster (sometimes hugely faster depending on torque curve), manual gear selection offers control. You can help to guide the car with gear choice - whether you want stability from short-shifting or to hold your speed at high revs as you steer. That may sound complex to some of you auto users, but really once you get used to it, it's as instinctive as when to brake and throttle. Automatic takes those choices away. It also makes the game way more involving.

 

[freedomweasel]

Before all the manual trans users get too full of themselves about their GT skills, never forget that GT doesn't model a MT like in real life at all. It's *much* easier in game.

I usually play with MT in-game and I can't overrev in a downshift, I can't miss a shift (they're sequential shifters in-game), the game blips the throttle for me coming into a corner, theres no loss of turbo boost during upshifts, there's no double clutching I have to do to shift into first etc.

Now automated manual gearboxes do some of these things IRL. A few street cars have no-lift shift, like Chevy HHR SS. However no cars have a transmission that holds your hand like in GT5. Next time you MT drivers drive remember to match revs at each corner and clutch in to avoid a stall under hard braking to simulate reality. If you overrev on a downshift throw your controller down because you just killed your car and no limiter can save you.

If the AT mode is faster it's because PD had to have nerfed the auto trans "intelligence" because the game can certainly calculate proper shift points better than I can. The AI cars are all shifting auto I assure you and they can beat you fine because PD makes it so.

Which is faster? Proven in-game to be manual by players. This is from actual testing because real world comparisons don't work here. And you can't bring GT knowledge of transmissions back to real life, GT generalizes too much for that.

GT5s manual mode works almost identically to my transmission in my real car. I don't lift when shifting, downshifts blip automatically, I can't miss shift due to it being sequential, etc.

 

[Ryan81]

I used to think auto was better for racing games but always use manual now. Definately quicker.

 

[checkyoursix]

Stupid thread is stupid.

You didn't read the thread. It's quite complicated and you don't have to post. I think we in the thread like discussing the merits of different transmissions in and out of game.

 

[xSTIG_JUNIORx]

Poll gives you the answer

 

[checkyoursix]

GT5s manual mode works almost identically to my transmission in my real car. I don't lift when shifting, downshifts blip automatically, I can't miss shift due to it being sequential, etc.

What car do you drive?

The point is MOST cars don't, not NASCAR, none of the classics, not my car, not 99% of road cars.
Shift from fourth to second at 120mph in your car as fast as you can and tell me how much the repair bill is. In GT nothing happens.

 

[xGaro]

i can never use manual on a standard controller..
i wish my good ol ps2 wheel worked for the ps3

 

[freedomweasel]

What car do you drive?

The point is MOST cars don't, not NASCAR, none of the classics, not my car, not 99% of road cars.
Shift from fourth to second at 120mph in your car as fast as you can and tell me how much the repair bill is. In GT nothing happens.

I have a MkV GTI with the "DSG" transmission. Most cars with dual-clutch transmissions will act like this, all the dual clutch transmissions from VWAG (VW, Audi, Porsche) do. If I down shift from 6th to 1st it won't let me if it'll over-rev the engine. They're becoming increasingly used in "regular" cars, not just sporty ones. My mom drives a Jetta TDI and it has a dual clutch transmission.

Any traditional manuals though, you're pretty much dead on, you'll break things fast if you drive the way GT5 lets you.
Though the new 370Z has auto-blip on downshifts, "syncro-match" or something. (I think it would take all the fun out of having a manual though.)

 

[FilthyBarry]

If by "better" you mean easier then go for AT.
If by "better" you mean faster then it's got to be MT.

Depends what your looking for.

Sometimes I just go for AT in crazy fast online races when you've got a lot to focus on. As for time trials you HAVE to use MT to get the most speed out of the car. I thought everyone knew this.

 

[nissman]

Man this thread is on fire since the morning hours.

 

[shirakawaa]

Which is exactly oppositelock was saying. On cars that allow it.

You're still going to alienate the buyers who do not want to shift to in any car.

Maybe I didn't express myself properly.

Users that don't want to shift in any car would still be given this option by setting "Shifting assist" to ON. Enabling this would automate any manual operation needed to use the car transmission, if there the car has any.

This would mean that by setting it to OFF, automatic gearboxes would still behave like automatic gearboxes (shift gear by themselves), for example. However the user could select PRND321 as fit.

In the case of a car with a fully manual gearbox, instead:
By setting it to ON: the CPU does everything (gear shift, clutchwork, rev-matching)
By setting it to Semi: the CPU does the clutchwork and rev-matching, but gear selection is up to the user
By setting it to OFF: the user would have to take care of the clutch, rev matching and gear selection

Maybe it would be better to call the settings Amateur/Professional/Simulation, like with that wheel option.

 

[Feschka]

Of course manual is faster and much more fun.

Actually I did the Flight Academy Mercedes-Benz AMG Intermediate full lap in auto, it was easier to shun the traffic, *blush*.

 

[Tvensky]

Manual is better, it's just obvious! In real life and in GT game.

PS. I use Automatic since I drive with sixaxis, and its not interesting for me to press more buttons.. (will buy wheel any time soon, hope this month... cant wait! , then its manual for me)

 

[xX_F Alonso_Xx]

Obviously manual is better. Just saying that I use a DS3 with manual no problem. Been using manual since I was 10 lol

 

[With a EG6]

Manual !

 

[Bloodmack]

Its not that hard to shift up in a video game. I can understand if some people cant understand the concept of a clutch. But pressing a button on a controller.. Why buy Gt5 if your not going to use manual? Go play NFS if you want arcade.

 

[xX_F Alonso_Xx]

Its not that hard to shift up in a video game. I can understand if some people cant understand the concept of a clutch. But pressing a button on a controller.. Why buy Gt5 if your not going to use manual? Go play NFS if you want arcade.

This 👍

 

[McLaren]

Maybe I didn't express myself properly.

Users that don't want to shift in any car would still be given this option by setting "Shifting assist" to ON. Enabling this would automate any manual operation needed to use the car transmission, if there the car has any.

This would mean that by setting it to OFF, automatic gearboxes would still behave like automatic gearboxes (shift gear by themselves), for example. However the user could select PRND321 as fit.

In the case of a car with a fully manual gearbox, instead:
By setting it to ON: the CPU does everything (gear shift, clutchwork, rev-matching)
By setting it to Semi: the CPU does the clutchwork and rev-matching, but gear selection is up to the user
By setting it to OFF: the user would have to take care of the clutch, rev matching and gear selection

Maybe it would be better to call the settings Amateur/Professional/Simulation, like with that wheel option.

Interesting idea.

Its not that hard to shift up in a video game. I can understand if some people cant understand the concept of a clutch. But pressing a button on a controller.. Why buy Gt5 if your not going to use manual? Go play NFS if you want arcade.

Subtle, "Play it this way" post.

God, this forum is filled with these. 👎

 

[freedomweasel]

Its not that hard to shift up in a video game. I can understand if some people cant understand the concept of a clutch. But pressing a button on a controller.. Why buy Gt5 if your not going to use manual? Go play NFS if you want arcade.

How the heck is automatic "arcade"? Take a look at the cars on the road, how many are automatic? The answer is: a heck of a lot more than manual. Even at my local autocross events there are a fair amount of automatics.

Life is arcade....

Further, you're talking about a controller. Pushing a button on a controller or not pushing a button on a controller isn't any more or less arcadey. It's a controller not a sim-rig.