Manual Vs Automatic, why not equal

[John Smith UK]

So I play the game on a joypad and I use Auto gears, I always thought that the top speeds and accelerations would be identical irrespective of what transmission you use, how little did I know.

playing the daily race c at Le Mans in an auto car was not a big issue as the top speed of my car was faster than the 919 everyone was using so I could lose a little at the front knowing I’d be much quicker down the back of the straights. In some of the races I noticed the 919 was not losing speed and I couldn’t catch or pass before the braking zones - manual gears the drivers said in the post race lobby, so I did some testing down the Le Man straight.

using the Mazda LM55, down the straight it reached a top speed of 198 occasionally popping to 199 but it never hit its 8th gear for whatever reason. Switch to manual and the acceleration to its top speed was 3 seconds quicker than the autos was to its top speed, and the top speed you ask - 198 for the auto vs 207 for the Manual. 207 reached in its 8th gear - the gear the auto wouldn’t pull.

I tried a few other cars and the average was a higher top speed of the manual to the auto of 6 mph and the same 3 seconds faster acceleration - Take into account how useless I am with a manual box so a decent player probably quicker accelerating

now there is a link to BOP here - auto cars use a generic set of ratios for the auto gears across all the cars whereas the manual cars have a generic set of ratios but specific to each car.

in the current daily race c at Daytona the manual cars are getting massive advantages in terms of engine braking and acceleration, top speed is less of an issue here but the auto cars are generally having to accelerate from corners in gear higher than the optimum, take the final turn before you start the run back to the start finish - a 2nd gear corner, the manual cars hit 2nd well in advance of the turn so can shoot out of the gear with max acceleration- the autos if you brake to the right speed are in 3rd gear - braking to 2nd slows the car way way too much and gives the cars behind too much advantage to defend on the run down to the chicane. as an average in that one corner an auto equipped car loses half a second to the manual cars, he manual cars because of the engine braking can also brake much later than the autos

ive posted here before that I believe the game has unfairness at its heart - it’s designed around as said, wheels and manual cars, some will say so learn to race with manual gears, to which I would reply I don’t want to And why should I have to - all I ask is for fair play all around.

Polyphony won’t change anything I Know but.. they have designed the autos to be slower race cars than the same car with a manual transmission. But if they did.. one thing I would ask them to put back in GT7 would be the option from GT Sport that allowed the players with Auto boxes to downshift the gears - this worked, certainly for me - back in the day I used to win 1 in 4 daily races I took part in - in GT7 the gap be it ability or performance means I get the odd win but too often it feels the inbuilt performance of the manual cars delivers too much of an advantage to me to be fair and with 2 equal drivers the manual car should win every time as it’s performance is stronger.

is it it unreasonable to ask for equal performance PD?

 

[AmyUD06]

The performance is the same, just a person manually shifting the car is more intelligent that the computer controlling the automatic gear changes (not a true automatic transmission), which only upshifts when the tachometer is maxed out. Thus, in your example, you can manually select 8th gear early and get those few extra MPH, whereas with the automatic gear changes won't ever choose 8th because you haven't run out of RPMs in 7th.

The game is fair....automatic gear changes are a driving aid to make the game easier for those without the skill or desire to learn to change them manually, just like Skid Recovery Force or whatever they called it back in the older games. You shouldn't expect to be as fast as someone else who is not using the assists.

 

[Dave A]

To add to the post above by @MikeUD06 because you can shift at a better point in the rev range (it's not always higher = better) you can build up more speed earlier as well and accelerate faster. You do have to be good with manual gears and know when to shift to be faster but it's natural that a person with more control has the capacity to be better than someone with less control.

 

[John Smith UK]

The performance is the same, just a person manually shifting the car is more intelligent that the computer controlling the automatic gear changes (not a true automatic transmission), which only upshifts when the tachometer is maxed out. Thus, in your example, you can manually select 8th gear early and get those few extra MPH, whereas with the automatic gear changes won't ever choose 8th because you haven't run out of RPMs in 7th.

The game is fair....automatic gear changes are a driving aid to make the game easier for those without the skill or desire to learn to change them manually, just like Skid Recovery Force or whatever they called it back in the older games. You shouldn't expect to be as fast as someone else who is not using the assists.

Thanks for the reply and you make valid points but in the example each gear was run to the redline to extract the max performance, the Mazda would not shift above its 7th gear redline in auto mode - you are correct that ability has a lot to do with any game (or anything in life) but I would challenge the point about not being as fast because it’s a driving aid, if the auto boxes don’t allow you to be as fast as a manual driver then to me - maybe the only person who thinks this way - it’s unfair.

would you not agree that - whatever car you choose, whichever transmission you choose, you should have the same performance as any other car/transmission combo in the game else how can that be considered fair And that driving ability alone should determine the result of a race not the equipment choice

im just old fashioned with what I consider fair play

 

[Dave A]

Thanks for the reply and you make valid points but in the example each gear was run to the redline to extract the max performance, the Mazda would not shift above its 7th gear redline in auto mode - you are correct that ability has a lot to do with any game (or anything in life) but I would challenge the point about not being as fast because it’s a driving aid, if the auto boxes don’t allow you to be as fast as a manual driver then to me - maybe the only person who thinks this way - it’s unfair.

would you not agree that - whatever car you choose, whichever transmission you choose, you should have the same performance as any other car/transmission combo in the game else how can that be considered fair And that driving ability alone should determine the result of a race not the equipment choice

im just old fashioned with what I consider fair play

Question, does driving ability not extend to being able to use a manual transmission at it's most effective capability?

 

[AmyUD06]

Thanks for the reply and you make valid points but in the example each gear was run to the redline to extract the max performance, the Mazda would not shift above its 7th gear redline in auto mode - you are correct that ability has a lot to do with any game (or anything in life) but I would challenge the point about not being as fast because it’s a driving aid, if the auto boxes don’t allow you to be as fast as a manual driver then to me - maybe the only person who thinks this way - it’s unfair.

would you not agree that - whatever car you choose, whichever transmission you choose, you should have the same performance as any other car/transmission combo in the game else how can that be considered fair And that driving ability alone should determine the result of a race not the equipment choice

im just old fashioned with what I consider fair play

And as @Dave A said, sometimes the max of the rev range isn't the best place to shift.

GT7 has all sort of driver aids...automatic gear changes, ASM, TCS, brake and steer assist, etc. ASM makes you slower around corners in exchange for greater stability, should that not be the case in your opinion?

I'd argue that your choice to use those aids will affect your results in the race, whereas a truly "equal and fair" play field has every competitor using the same selection of driving aids.

 

[B80]

Thanks for the reply and you make valid points but in the example each gear was run to the redline to extract the max performance, the Mazda would not shift above its 7th gear redline in auto mode - you are correct that ability has a lot to do with any game (or anything in life) but I would challenge the point about not being as fast because it’s a driving aid, if the auto boxes don’t allow you to be as fast as a manual driver then to me - maybe the only person who thinks this way - it’s unfair.

would you not agree that - whatever car you choose, whichever transmission you choose, you should have the same performance as any other car/transmission combo in the game else how can that be considered fair And that driving ability alone should determine the result of a race not the equipment choice

im just old fashioned with what I consider fair play

I know what you're saying, I'm manual, but don't have strong views either way.

Bit like forza horizon, when using clutch + manual, was clearly quicker than just changing manually.

Also arguments before around why tcs1 being generally slower than 0 (although tcs1 can mitigate spinning out and help many become more consistent, whilst learning throttle control).

 

[Grimm6Jack]

From experience, when you master driving without aids, you can go faster than with them. For the case of the manual vs auto gears, the first poster already explained it in good detail.

Aids however make driving easier and thus make you more consistent.

The exception to this rule is he Tomahawk X. lol Try driving to the limit on the Nurburgring with it without AIDs... Absolute madness.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

I don't think automatic gears should be buffed to match the potential of manual gears.

While I understand that automatic gearing is slower and that can be annoying, the player has the choice to learn manual. In real world racing, if a driver wants to push the most out of their car, they'll quite likely be driving a manual gearbox. If a competitor doesn't want to learn manual, that's their choice and they'll have to accept the consequences.

Answer this - if automatic gearing were buffed to match the speeds achievable by manual gearing, why have manual gearing in the game at all?

To me, if you removed the benefit of manual gearing, the game becomes easier and less of a challenge, it becomes more or an arcade racer and less of a sim.

 

[GaugeForever]

I managed to be pretty darned fast with an auto. The problem is that there is no way for an auto trans to have context. It doesn't know that your particular speed and RPM are because you're on a straight or a hairpin corner. It doesn't know you want to be in a higher gear coming out of a particular corner vs another. It also doesn't know when you need help making a corner and downshift (although this is technically possible with an ECU and accelerometers).

Outside of a billion sensors and some pretty cool AI ECU, an auto trans isn't ever going to be as good as manual transmission because it will never have the context you have. If your concern is straight line then there are several cars where over revving isn't really a thing and you are supposed to shift right away like the auto does anyways. You can choose to drive those cars heh. Frankly, straight line speed the auto trans is just as fast in an actual race I find, don't listen to the haters. For me, when I switched to manual, I gained all my time in the hairpin corners on exit speed and using the downshifts to have a better turn in.

Sainte Croix was a good example of this. That hard right before the bridge, the auto trans would be in one gear too high. If you slowed down enough to get it to downshift you would be going to slow into the corner. There is just no way to do that corner as fast as a manual trans with an auto transmission. Not to mention that is a greater than 90 degree turn and choosing when to downshift that extra gear gives you extra rotation as well.

All this being said, you can still be wicked fast with an auto trans. On most tracks you'll only be a few tenths off the fastest people. Most of the time on any track is won through braking.

 

[FOG-Smokebeer]

Shame PD never heard of a semi auto box at least that way you could drop a gear when needed

 

[GaugeForever]

Shame PD never heard of a semi auto box at least that way you could drop a gear when needed

Now that I have learned manual I wouldn't switch to that, but had this been an option when I was forced to switch, I would 100% be using that right now. Would also make the game more accessible to casual people and remove some of the barriers to switching to full manual.

 

[B80]

I managed to be pretty darned fast with an auto. The problem is that there is no way for an auto trans to have context. It doesn't know that your particular speed and RPM are because you're on a straight or a hairpin corner. It doesn't know you want to be in a higher gear coming out of a particular corner vs another. It also doesn't know when you need help making a corner and downshift (although this is technically possible with an ECU and accelerometers).

Outside of a billion sensors and some pretty cool AI ECU, an auto trans isn't ever going to be as good as manual transmission because it will never have the context you have. If your concern is straight line then there are several cars where over revving isn't really a thing and you are supposed to shift right away like the auto does anyways. You can choose to drive those cars heh. Frankly, straight line speed the auto trans is just as fast in an actual race I find, don't listen to the haters. For me, when I switched to manual, I gained all my time in the hairpin corners on exit speed and using the downshifts to have a better turn in.

Sainte Croix was a good example of this. That hard right before the bridge, the auto trans would be in one gear too high. If you slowed down enough to get it to downshift you would be going to slow into the corner. There is just no way to do that corner as fast as a manual trans with an auto transmission. Not to mention that is a greater than 90 degree turn and choosing when to downshift that extra gear gives you extra rotation as well.

All this being said, you can still be wicked fast with an auto trans. On most tracks you'll only be a few tenths off the fastest people. Most of the time on any track is won through braking.

Yeah there have been some very fast auto drivers posting on here before. Cthink maxi was, can't find his Id to tag him in. He was starting to transition to manual last I heard a few months back. Not sure how that went.

Now that I have learned manual I wouldn't switch to that, but had this been an option when I was forced to switch, I would 100% be using that right now. Would also make the game more accessible to casual people and remove some of the barriers to switching to full manual.

Funny thing is, it's not that difficult or take that long for most to transition. It feels really awkward at first, and I suspect many get to frustrated after a couple of races and switch back without giving it a proper go.

Few hours and you'll be proficient, and you'll never go back to auto again in any (well, most) games. It becomes 2nd nature.

But like you say, casuals probably not intersted in any learning curve and short term frustration. Tgey just want to pickup the game and play in easiest way possible.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Traction control will make any bad and lazy driver good and better, but better drivers will always be faster without traction control (most of the time).

Same thing can be said about automatic transmission...

If you want to fully enjoy the game to it's full potential, turn off ALL driving aids and do full manual mode...

Been enjoying the game like that since day one with GT2 on PSone for 24 years now.

Do absolutely everything in full manual mode, especially gold licences

 

[Imari]

would you not agree that - whatever car you choose, whichever transmission you choose, you should have the same performance as any other car/transmission combo in the game else how can that be considered fair And that driving ability alone should determine the result of a race not the equipment choice

No. Selecting gears is part of driving ability. Just like steering, accelerating and braking. It's one of very few controls that are fundamental to a car.

The game allows you the option to have the game do it for you, but it's not optimal. Just as the game will aid you with braking and traction control if you wish, but it's not optimal either.

This is how assists work. If you need assists to be able to play, you're not fast enough to be bothered that they're slower. If you're being bothered that they're slower, that means that you're at a stage where you need to learn to manually control more of the game in order to extract maximum performance.

This is good game design, because it encourages the player to learn and enjoy additional skills. Anything that the computer does better than the player ever can is something that the player should never bother learning how to do (at least from a competitive sense). We saw this in GT5/6 with SRF - it was an assist that was faster, so to be competitive it became required to use it.

Having lots of different assists that can be progressively disabled and reward a skilled player with extra speed provides accessibility as well as incentive to improve. These are both good things for a game.

It sounds like you resent that there's a skill that you haven't learned that is required for you to take your driving to the next level. That's a you problem. You can choose to continue playing with Auto and just have fun, or you can learn the faster technique. But the game is not required to make your method of driving the fastest, nor should it.

 

[shadow0460]

Keep in mind the 919 has a KERS system to drive the front wheels. As long as the driver doesn't stay on the gas enough to activate it, it'll charge. It's possible the batteries will last down the Mulsanne, particularly since they charge with turbines in the exhaust as well as the front wheels rotating.
Best to compare fuel only cars to fuel only cars.

 

[Techlet]

would you not agree that - whatever car you choose, whichever transmission you choose, you should have the same performance as any other car/transmission combo in the game else how can that be considered fair And that driving ability alone should determine the result of a race not the equipment choice

What equipment choice? Every Playstation comes with a controller. Every controller has buttons assigned for gear up/down.

Every player has the same equipment at the base level (and upgrading to a wheel setup won't make you shift gears any faster in GT7). Barring physical accessibility issues, which don't seem to be the case here, it's a simple playstyle choice between auto or manual shifting, not equipment choice.

Knowing how to shift gears optimally is part of "driving ability".

 

[Grayfox]

Main thing to keep in mind with auto shifting and manual shifting is.

Auto will always rev up to red line to shift,
Manual will shift when you demand.

If you have the Aston Martin DP-100
Try driving it.
With Auto then manual.
One thing you will notice is the acceleration drop off in the mid RPM range and higher.
(Listen for the Turbo noise to stop)

Here is the dyno graph for the DP-100
There is a decent drop off on torque at about 5,000rpm.
With a drop off on power revving it to red line is pointless on the DP-100
Short shifting it, yields better results.

Gearbox tuning can be tricky, you want to be near the red line on the longest straight but you want a little extra for any possible slipstream to give you a bit more of a boost but you still want good acceleration out of corners.

For the R92CP tune for WTC800 spa I set the top speed to 310km/h
I hit 300km/h under my own steam at the top stright, but I have 10km/h extra for slipstream boost(not that it matters against Gr.3 cars)
You also want to tune the other gears so you wont have excessive wheel spin for the hairpins, but wont accelerate out of the corner like your driving a Mazda Demio LX G Pacakge as your not in the power band.

Shame PD never heard of a semi auto box at least that way you could drop a gear when needed

In GT4, GT5 and GT6.
You could "Hold" Gears.
So you could prevent a shift up or shift down.
This was great around long sweeping corners or those consecutive corners where shifting would cost you a few tenths.

 

[Monkdapunk]

Learn to drive manual instead of thinking you can't. I always used auto up until GT Prologue and the advantages of manual are real. I'm actually really bad at driving EV cars because I can't change gears and my brain and fingers want to and do sometimes.

They should have no driving aids other that ABS in sport mode anyways. It's a joke that you can use counter steer assistance and ASM and twitch your way into 1st place. Unless you are handicapped in some way you should be able to drive with no help.

 

[Famine]

irrespective of what transmission

Automatic/manual doesn't refer to transmission type. It refers to gear change operation. Automatic means the game does it for you, manual means you do it.

With manual selected you can choose to change up - or down - when it suits you, but automatic cannot and does not offer that flexibility. This doesn't just include changing up under full throttle conditions, wherein it's sometimes advantageous to do so at lower engine speeds to take account of torque drop-off, but changing down to get better rotation, changing up to minimise wheelspin, short-shifting and holding gears for fuel economy, and so on.

There is no possible way for these two methods to be equal.

 

[Veinz]

This is an unreasonable request. Especially when your attitude to learning manual gears is “I don’t want to” or “Why should I?”

Other than being practically impossible to make them equal, why should someone who is doing less get the same reward? This is a player issue rather than one with the game.

 

[John Smith UK]

Question, does driving ability not extend to being able to use a manual transmission at it's most effective capability?

Probably and in the higher echelons where it’s all wheel and manual combinations it’s effectively that and smart race craft but I race in the BS lobbies where it’s probably 50:50 between wheels and joypads and 60:40 manual to autos, in the daily race C Daytona it’s a 3rd gear entry for the chicane - when you brake in the auto box it normally doesn’t drop below 4th, if you brake and get 3rd then your entry into the corner might be 20mph slower than the chap behind meaning your fair game down the back strait

Automatic/manual doesn't refer to transmission type. It refers to gear change operation. Automatic means the game does it for you, manual means you do it.

With manual selected you can choose to change up - or down - when it suits you, but automatic cannot and does not offer that flexibility. This doesn't just include changing up under full throttle conditions, wherein it's sometimes advantageous to do so at lower engine speeds to take account of torque drop-off, but changing down to get better rotation, changing up to minimise wheelspin, short-shifting and holding gears for fuel economy, and so on.

There is no possible way for these two methods to be equal.

Dude that would be true in the 1980s/90s but is patently not true with todays boxes - if so explain how does any modern auto box - ZFs famed 8 speed or Porsches PDK boxes as examples deliver better performance, economy and emissions in ANY given scenario in full auto mode - these are facts in the modern sports/super/hyper car world where only one manufacturer offers a true manual but all customer orders To date are for the Auto - why? All of the above.

at the end of the day it’s a video game - so that argument they can never be equal doesn’t stand up.

and I’m not a technical person but when you ask an engineer what transmission is in the car the chances are it will be one of these 7

• Traditional Manual.
• Traditional Automatic.
• Manual-Automatic.
• Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT)
• Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT)
• Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG)
• Tiptronic

your right manual / Auto are headline names but the transmission underneath both might be different in the way it works to change gears - most race cars today run dual clutch boxes - they are manual change only but it’s only a software upgrade to have them as a full auto change, linked to gps mapping of the track it always ensures the box is in the right gear at the right point. Audi have similar tech in their S8 8 speed gearbox - The reason it’s dual clutch is it allows the next gear to be preselected and the change to happen with no interruption of power - You will remember BMW trialled it in a F1 car more than a few years ago but as with many innovations the FIA outlawed it - 11 other teams were planning to run similar boxes the following season. Active suspension and aero all went same way.

in the new hybrid hyper car class the manufacturers asked for full auto boxes as again better performance, battery management, reliability etc but The LM WEC governance said no.

also I think BMW have M Cars running similar tech to their banned F1 cars - Top Gear showed one going around there track at breakneck speed - Level 5 autonomy

To say it can’t be done is not correct at all - if PD ever did anything on this topic - rest assured they won’t - then the fastest drivers will still be the fastest drivers the pecking order is not at risk

This is an unreasonable request. Especially when your attitude to learning manual gears is “I don’t want to” or “Why should I?”

Other than being practically impossible to make them equal, why should someone who is doing less get the same reward? This is a player issue rather than one with the game.

so It’s unreasonable - that’s fine - please explain/expand on that.

and if the glass ceiling in the game for drivers who use auto boxes is say BS level that is fine - why does the game never call out if you aspire to the highest levels in the game then their advice is a manual box is the way to go?

Main thing to keep in mind with auto shifting and manual shifting is.

Auto will always rev up to red line to shift,
Manual will shift when you demand.

If you have the Aston Martin DP-100
Try driving it.
With Auto then manual.
One thing you will notice is the acceleration drop off in the mid RPM range and higher.
(Listen for the Turbo noise to stop)

Here is the dyno graph for the DP-100
There is a decent drop off on torque at about 5,000rpm.
With a drop off on power revving it to red line is pointless on the DP-100
Short shifting it, yields better results.

Gearbox tuning can be tricky, you want to be near the red line on the longest straight but you want a little extra for any possible slipstream to give you a bit more of a boost but you still want good acceleration out of corners.

For the R92CP tune for WTC800 spa I set the top speed to 310km/h
I hit 300km/h under my own steam at the top stright, but I have 10km/h extra for slipstream boost(not that it matters against Gr.3 cars)
You also want to tune the other gears so you wont have excessive wheel spin for the hairpins, but wont accelerate out of the corner like your driving a Mazda Demio LX G Pacakge as your not in the power band.

In GT4, GT5 and GT6.
You could "Hold" Gears.
So you could prevent a shift up or shift down.
This was great around long sweeping corners or those consecutive corners where shifting would cost you a few tenths.

perfect argument - data and fact to which I cant argue

that Holding of gears or the ability to over ride the manual in GTS I think was a life saver - if PD put it back in then I would be happy.

 

[Meythia]

Dude that would be true in the 1980s/90s but is patently not true with todays boxes - if so explain how does any modern auto box - ZFs famed 8 speed or Porsches PDK boxes as examples deliver better performance, economy and emissions in ANY given scenario in full auto mode - these are facts in the modern sports/super/hyper car world only one manufacturer offers a true manual but all customer orders To date are for the Auto - why? All of the above.

at the end of the day it’s a video game - so that argument they can never be equal doesn’t stand up.

Automatic in GT7 (and prior) is a player aid and by that obviously is inferior to someone who knows the car inside out.
In game terms it simply cant be equal as good as someone playing manual as long as the player doesnt mess up.

What you refering to in your real world comparison is something fundamentally different from the game: transmissions.

Just think of it like this: GT7 mandates manual transmissions, and the automatic gear change aid is your drivers coach doing the work ...

 

[John Smith UK]

Traction control will make any bad and lazy driver good and better, but better drivers will always be faster without traction control (most of the time).

Same thing can be said about automatic transmission...

If you want to fully enjoy the game to it's full potential, turn off ALL driving aids and do full manual mode...

Been enjoying the game like that since day one with GT2 on PSone for 24 years now.

Do absolutely everything in full manual mode, especially gold licences

True to a point but Facts of life in the modern world are traction controlled ferraris,porsches,lambos,mclarens are all faster than their non tc counterparts around any track. I don’t race with any assists but do have TC set at level 1 just to keep any slow corner tail snap manageable - I can recover an Autocar from any spin but manuals I struggle with

 

[Dave A]

Probably and in the higher echelons where it’s all wheel and manual combinations it’s effectively that and smart race craft but I race in the BS lobbies where it’s probably 50:50 between wheels and joypads and 60:40 manual to autos, in the daily race C Daytona it’s a 3rd gear entry for the chicane - when you brake in the auto box it normally doesn’t drop below 4th, if you brake and get 3rd then your entry into the corner might be 20mph slower than the chap behind meaning your fair game down the back strait

I am a pad user and I race in manual, I'm no slower or less adept at gear changes than a wheel user. I'm not sure what wheen users have to do with anything in relation to this discussion if I'm honest.

But you also need to stop thinking of Automatic Transmission in the game in the same way you think of a real world high performance auto, it's not. In the game it's a driving aid, hte game is simply shifting for yo u, it's not replicating a real high performance auto.

 

[Famine]

Dude that would be true in the 1980s/90s but is patently not true with todays boxes - if so explain how does any modern auto box - ZFs famed 8 speed or Porsches PDK boxes as examples deliver better performance, economy and emissions in ANY given scenario in full auto mode - these are facts in the modern sports/super/hyper car world where only one manufacturer offers a true manual but all customer orders To date are for the Auto - why? All of the above.

at the end of the day it’s a video game - so that argument they can never be equal doesn’t stand up.

Please read the first paragraph I wrote again, because nothing you say in this - yet again, despite numerous reminders you've never bothered to address, double - post has anything to do with anything in my post.

Automatic/Manual in GT7 has nothing to do with transmissions. It's whether you have manual control over gear changes or it's done automatically.

 

[Tired Tyres]

What equipment choice? Every Playstation comes with a controller. Every controller has buttons assigned for gear up/down.

Every player has the same equipment at the base level (and upgrading to a wheel setup won't make you shift gears any faster in GT7). Barring physical accessibility issues, which don't seem to be the case here, it's a simple playstyle choice between auto or manual shifting, not equipment choice.

Knowing how to shift gears optimally is part of "driving ability".

Say that to the F1 drivers, including Schumacher, who had auto gears during the electronic aid era.

 

[DriftMethod]

Using manual in GT7 is not difficult at all. It's just a couple buttons/paddles, no clutch/rev matching/etc. required. If you can recognize that a gear is too high for a particular corner, then you understand gears enough to use manual.

As far as fairness, everyone has access to manual, it's not like you have to spend a million credits to unlock manual mode for each car. If you think manual is unfair, then GT7 should only be playable with the controller on a mandated size and spec monitor and everyone should be limited to a specific amount of time playing.

 

[Grayfox]

One thing I forgot to mention in my post was.

With short shifting
You don't always to it to remain closer to the power band, short shifting can reduce fuel usage.
This many not seem like a big thing, but on those 30min races or spa 60min.
Short shifting can save you 1 or 2 laps of fuel, this means you can extend your stints or even spend less time in pit.

But I will use this as an example from the WTC800-spa
Under normal driving(rev it to redline) you will get 6 laps worth of fuel.
You know that rain comes around lap 7 based of previous races, so instead of pitting lap 6 and then again lap 7 for rain tires.
You short shift, do some lifting and coasting and you have a little more than 7 laps of fuel and can pit once instead of twice.

With so many benefits of using manual, why not give it a go?

 

[Techlet]

Dude that would be true in the 1980s/90s but is patently not true with todays boxes - if so explain how does any modern auto box - ZFs famed 8 speed or Porsches PDK boxes as examples deliver better performance, economy and emissions in ANY given scenario in full auto mode - these are facts in the modern sports/super/hyper car world where only one manufacturer offers a true manual but all customer orders To date are for the Auto - why? All of the above.

at the end of the day it’s a video game - so that argument they can never be equal doesn’t stand up.

and I’m not a technical person but when you ask an engineer what transmission is in the car the chances are it will be one of these 7

• Traditional Manual.
• Traditional Automatic.
• Manual-Automatic.
• Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT)
• Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT)
• Direct Shift Gearbox (DSG)
• Tiptronic

You seem to be under the assumption that choosing between Manual and Auto in the global assist settings somehow changes the actual transmission on the car you're currently driving in GT7?

That's not the case. Choosing Auto shifting in a car that comes stock with a manual transmission doesn't mean the car suddenly gets a magical PDK for free. It just means the game will shift the car's manual transmission for you.

If you want to actually change the transmission type, you need to buy the parts from the Tuning Shop. You get a choice between "Racing Manual" and "Racing Sequential".