B-Spec - I don't get it

[Famine]

Like personally, I don't like racing the Nurburgring (is this blasphemy to say this on this forum???)
-a

*oils crucifix, torments pack of slavering hounds*

 

[msako]

It doesn't contaminate the scores. It contaminates the mode of the game. My point was, they should have created a separate mode like arcade mode if players didn't want to be mingled in with both A-Spec and B-Spec. I don't care about nitrous but I do feel that B-Spec just makes it so easy to advance in the game that it should have been separated out.

Some people really like a challenge. That's why I go to get all of the gold licenses. That speaks for itself. You can't cheat or take a shortcut (legitimately, at least) to get the gold licenses. Points are a joke, given all of the loopholes (Dodge Ram, etc.).

Back to the discussion topic. I don't get it. What I don't get is why they didn't separate it out. The only ones I see throwing flames here are those who use it. I suspect that many like me who have chosen not to are remaining silent. I don't care about the flames, I can deal with that. I just think, in my opinion, and I believe many here agree with me that it's a flaw in the challenge of the game.

how does B-Spec "contaminate" your scores...? you can ALWAYS go back and get more a-spec and b-spec points no matter what

by the way.. its nitrousoxide, NOS is a brand name
and in familiar words its called "Laughing Gas"

 

[dbartucci]

I love B-spec, I'm trying to get 100% using B-spec for everything except for licenses and special condition hall. My goal is to finish the game in less than 3 days.

Just kidding.

I like B-spec, and I'm not worried about "contaminating my score" or point levels. I play the game because I enjoy it, and that means not running every lap of every race in the game then so be it, I'm not worried about getting 100%, golding licenses or owning every car in the game. If anyone is genuinely upset that B-spec is in the game they should take a step back and evaluate why they'd ever be upset that someone they don't know is "cheating" at a video game they also own.

Besides, who sees your scores and cares if you've b-spec'd anyways.

I don't think the people who use A-spec only are being silent, they're just too sitting infront of their tv playing their thumbs off to be at their comp...

 

[msako]

So far, this is about the only rational response I've seen here. The rest are just the usual apologia for weak play.

B-Spec = able to along in the game and not get DIVORCED.

Besides, GT4 is all about getting cars for Photo Travel... Right?

 

[msako]

If it's not separated out (like arcade mode), it makes it very difficult to make comparisons with friends, colleagues and fellow players to figure out how much effort went into achieving certain percentages, finishing enduros, acquiring prize cars and completing long races, etc.

Some of the appeal of GT3 and completing 100% was that you had to race the miserable ones like the Vitz and complete them to achieve the goal. You even had to finish the stuff in Arcade mode. Now, it's just like a cheat if you happen to find something unpleasant. Unfortunately, now, if I say I achieved some percentage or acquired a certain car I have to make sure I say it's done without any B-Spec, which is what annoys me.

I also don't like to buy cars and so far I have not bought a car yet. But, that's a little different. That's just something that I keep to myself. I realize that I'll probably have to buy some oddball brand cars to get 100% but those all come at the end.

Ugh ... what's with all this talk of "cheating" or "contaminating" or "ruining the game?"
Why does it matter what anyone else does in the game?

All that should matter is that you enjoy the game and play it!

If you don't like nitrous, don't buy the mod!
If you don't like B-Spec, don't use it!

Like personally, I don't like racing the Nurburgring (is this blasphemy to say this on this forum???), so I B-Spec it, and it leaves me more time to race the tracks that I enjoy. 👍

-a

 

[Phil McCavity]

ok msako, just dont b spec and stfu

Gord

 

[Phil McCavity]

mmm actually i see your point now msako, all yer buddies are out having a few beers, b spec'ing an enduro race..... while u slave away, thumbs a-twiddling

LOL

 

[cultfreak69]

for all the people that post on here all the time there must be ALOT of B-Specing going on........

 

[snypa]

msako,

The reason why B-spec is useful for some people like me is that you can earn time.

As for me, I have a job, I have a wife, I have a house, I have friends and a family.
So, in the way of life that I chosed (it's just my own choice) I just can't afford playing a 24h endurance, or a race that will get me bored and waste my time, like the trucks races for example (again it's just my opinion).

In fact I agree with you, they could have separated the games. The problem in GT4, unlike in GT3, is that you HAVE to do endurance races to win some of the greatest cars that are put in. In GT3, you could win these cars in Endurance OR in other races. I don't like the fact that we're obliged to do something that we may not like in order to take full benefit of the game. So my only way to earn these cars is to use b-spec.
Quite the same for earning money, like someone said above, it allows you to earn money in order to buy other cars, instead of doing everytime the same races.

So, it's just a question of how much time you have. I have a few, so considering how the game is made, B-spec is useful for me, and for a lot of people like me.

I'm sure you understand that, especially because my intention here is not to flame you, as everyone just makes his own choices and shares his own opinions.

Regards,

 

[Kremithefrog]

B-spec is good cuz while I'm out getting drunk it can be doing an endurance race. Also good for any races I find boring. Sorta cool in a way to build up its skill too so it one day it doesn't run off every corner at la sarthe (4500pts and that day still hasn't come).

 

[Hun200kmh]

For me , it goes like this:

a) I don't use NOS
b) I don't use b-spec

about a), the reason I don't use NOS is because NOS has nothing to do with racing. And, even if GT4 is a poor racing simulator (six cars, stupid AI, no weather changes, no day/night cycles), I like to take from it as much racing as I can.

about b), I think the reason b-spec is in this game is just because the guys at PD somehow didn't know how to create mid-race saves. Maybe it's the structure of the game that doesn't allow it, maybe it isn't, but this "impossibility" to save your races before they're finished made 24 hour races unreasonable.

If my assumption is true, they (PD) had two options: either keep the endurance races as short as in GT3 (2 hours, more or less), or come up with this "director's mode" AKA b-spec.

They preferred to give us the b-spec thing. It's good for guys who want easy cash and great cars given by the PS2 to them ... without driving.

But I bought this game to drive. So, b-spec is pointless as far as I'm concerned. Even "directing" your team in 24 hour races is boring in GT4. Cars don't have mechanical problems, the weather doesn't change, there aren't unscheduled pit stops here. So race strategy is not needed. There's no chalenge. There's no game.

About 24 hour races, the best game still available for the PS2 is the "Le Mans" one. It hasn't the graphics nor the physics engine that GT4 has, but it has 24 cars running, there's day and night, and the weather may randomly change during the race, making it possible that your previously designed pitstop strategy is suddenly ruined and either you adjust to the changing conditions or you may end up losing the race.

And, this game has midrace saves (while in the pits), so you can - like I did - play this 24 hour race at the rate of one stint per night. And still end it with the enjoyment that you drove the entire race, and did not get divorced while you did it.

It is a pitty that GT4 - the best overall driving game available - doesn't allow this kind of playing.

 

[Jacks]

I use b-spec if i win a championship and don't like the colour of the car i win and can't be bothered to do the whole championship again, or to repeat championships to get more money. These are the reasons i think b spec was put into the game. I also b-spec'd the 24 hour races because i have better things to do with 24 hours than race the same race!!

 

[Schtopper]

I use B-Spec for one fo two reasons. Either to make a bit of extra cash on a race i've already completed in A-Spec (also aids to train up the B-Spec skill) or to take turns in the endurance races. In a real LeMans race one driver doesn't do the entire race they switch at pit stops, that's how i use B-Spec, i've no interest in racing for a solid 24hours on the same track i'd get bored. So i'll do a few hours, then pit in siwtch to B-Spec and let the AI do a few hours, then switch back etc.
There is a little bit of skill to it but not much i admit. You do have to get your driver upto spec as he won't drive as fast round a track as you can, so you can either use a vastly overpowered car (little unfair in my opinion), get the skill level increased so he can drive at a fast pace all the time, or get so far in front before you switch over that it doesn't matter that the pack is catching him.

End of the day i quite like it, in GT3 i never really did any of the endurance races cos i just lost interest, with B-Spec i'm more likely to give them a go. I'd never let B-Spec do a whole race i haven't already completed on it's own.

 

[msako]

I am in the same situation as you, and, I am also an avid race fan and attend live races (Laguna, Sears Point, Riverside, Indy, Suzuka, Motegi, wherever I happen to be, to name a few) when I can fit it into family life. Boring races are a fact of life. Just go to a real event and watch the preliminary events. Most of them are pretty boring, too, but just the same, I paid my money and I watch them because they are competitive.

My opinion is that they should have separated this out so that A-Spec would have meant something. Also, they could have put the great cars in Arcade mode or a separate B-Spec mode. A-Spec should have been kept special. The reason I even brought this thread up was because the first few weeks after the release here in the US, I started reading about players who were 50%+ along, had most of the really good cars and had finished some of the endurance races (all with the NA version).

I had followed and played the game when I'm in Japan, but somehow I didn't really understand the concept of B-Spec due to the language barrier. I was thrilled to death to be able to play the game at all. There were quite a few features I had to learn the hard way because I can't read much Japanese. But, the early reports by English-speaking people here caused me to be astonished and impressed and then I figured out what B-Spec really is. Then, I was hugely disappointed. So, I took a clean memory card, played around with B-Spec and figured out it wasn't for me.

It's not that I consider it a cheat or anything like that, either. It's like an aid or help feature that went a little overboard in the assistance it offers, in my opinion.

Thanks for the civil response.

msako,

The reason why B-spec is useful for some people like me is that you can earn time.

As for me, I have a job, I have a wife, I have a house, I have friends and a family.
So, in the way of life that I chosed (it's just my own choice) I just can't afford playing a 24h endurance, or a race that will get me bored and waste my time, like the trucks races for example (again it's just my opinion).

In fact I agree with you, they could have separated the games. The problem in GT4, unlike in GT3, is that you HAVE to do endurance races to win some of the greatest cars that are put in. In GT3, you could win these cars in Endurance OR in other races. I don't like the fact that we're obliged to do something that we may not like in order to take full benefit of the game. So my only way to earn these cars is to use b-spec.
Quite the same for earning money, like someone said above, it allows you to earn money in order to buy other cars, instead of doing everytime the same races.

So, it's just a question of how much time you have. I have a few, so considering how the game is made, B-spec is useful for me, and for a lot of people like me.

I'm sure you understand that, especially because my intention here is not to flame you, as everyone just makes his own choices and shares his own opinions.

Regards,

 

[msako]

Thanks for the response. I tend to agree with everything you said, however, I can't believe that PD could not figure out how to do a checkpoint save. If they can pause and they can replay they could certainly have figured out how to do a mid-race save. But, maybe you're right, they had no way to do it.

Remember, also that this game is polished by numerous focus groups of avid players. I've very impressed that they've kept the gold licenses relatively difficult. At first, I thought they were far more difficult but after achieving most of them so far, I realize that it's just a matter of practice and observation. That part I really enjoy about the game because it's a challenge.

I also suspect that the flamers, cynics and wiseguys here in this thread are the types who get the bronze licenses and are not much interested in collecting all of the golds.

For me , it goes like this:

a) I don't use NOS
b) I don't use b-spec

about a), the reason I don't use NOS is because NOS has nothing to do with racing. And, even if GT4 is a poor racing simulator (six cars, stupid AI, no weather changes, no day/night cycles), I like to take from it as much racing as I can.

about b), I think the reason b-spec is in this game is just because the guys at PD somehow didn't know how to create mid-race saves. Maybe it's the structure of the game that doesn't allow it, maybe it isn't, but this "impossibility" to save your races before they're finished made 24 hour races unreasonable.

If my assumption is true, they (PD) had two options: either keep the endurance races as short as in GT3 (2 hours, more or less), or come up with this "director's mode" AKA b-spec.

They preferred to give us the b-spec thing. It's good for guys who want easy cash and great cars given by the PS2 to them ... without driving.

But I bought this game to drive. So, b-spec is pointless as far as I'm concerned. Even "directing" your team in 24 hour races is boring in GT4. Cars don't have mechanical problems, the weather doesn't change, there aren't unscheduled pit stops here. So race strategy is not needed. There's no chalenge. There's no game.

About 24 hour races, the best game still available for the PS2 is the "Le Mans" one. It hasn't the graphics nor the physics engine that GT4 has, but it has 24 cars running, there's day and night, and the weather may randomly change during the race, making it possible that your previously designed pitstop strategy is suddenly ruined and either you adjust to the changing conditions or you may end up losing the race.

And, this game has midrace saves (while in the pits), so you can - like I did - play this 24 hour race at the rate of one stint per night. And still end it with the enjoyment that you drove the entire race, and did not get divorced while you did it.

It is a pitty that GT4 - the best overall driving game available - doesn't allow this kind of playing.

 

[Nemo2]

I only use B-spec for endurance races, but Ive racked up some 8000 miles on it already :/

compared to just over 1000 in a-spec

 

[`ScorpioNEvo]

HAIL B SPEC!
best thing ever invented!
it was great getting a 24hr endurance done in less than about 18 hrs! maybe less than that.

although the pit stops are retarded!
20 secs a pit stop?
kills ya on super speed way.
and made me come 2nd in the 2nd 24hr endurance. which i gotta redo.

 

[Cosmic]

B-spec : 0000 points. I haven't and don't want to use it.
And when I'm at 100% without using b-spec I can finally say ''I did it all by myself''

 

[h0ss]

I use b-spec to earn money, and that's all. I do not run any races in B-Spec before I've run them in A-spec.

To me, it's a fair comprimise.

 

[h0ss]

About 24 hour races, the best game still available for the PS2 is the "Le Mans" one. It hasn't the graphics nor the physics engine that GT4 has, but it has 24 cars running, there's day and night, and the weather may randomly change during the race, making it possible that your previously designed pitstop strategy is suddenly ruined and either you adjust to the changing conditions or you may end up losing the race.

And, this game has midrace saves (while in the pits), so you can - like I did - play this 24 hour race at the rate of one stint per night. And still end it with the enjoyment that you drove the entire race, and did not get divorced while you did it.

It is a pitty that GT4 - the best overall driving game available - doesn't allow this kind of playing.

Thanks for the heads-up on that game, I'll have to check it out.

 

[msako]

I plan to reach 100% without using B-Spec, however, I also plan to get another memory card and run the game with maximum B-Spec. I just don't want to contaminate my A-Spec memory card with any B-Spec. I feel the same way as you.

I'm going to start knocking off the endurance races now that I've reached 25% and that's going to be the most difficult achievement in the game, probably more than getting 100% golds because of the time involved. It also gives you a great chance to become dead solid on quite a few courses, too.

After I'm done with A-Spec, I plan to run a B-Spec game but that's probably just for the novelty of the thing and not really for any personal satisfaction or anything like that.

100% A-Spec is challenging, as is 100% gold medals. It took me almost a year to finish GT3 (not playing everyday, of course), but that's the challenge of the game. It's as deep as it gets.

B-spec : 0000 points. I haven't and don't want to use it.
And when I'm at 100% without using b-spec I can finally say ''I did it all by myself''

 

[olympia21_ca]

Why does it matter what anyone else does in the game?
All that should matter is that you enjoy the game and play it!

If you don't like nitrous, don't buy the mod!
If you don't like B-Spec, don't use it!

Ameeen, brother. The game is ultimately what you make of it. You payed your hard earned dollars for it (unless you stole it, lol) so play it as you see fit.
I won't critize you for it.

Anyways, the real challenges are getting 80 golds and Mission Hall, which you can't use B-Spec, so don't sweat it if you used B-Spec to beat a sadisitc 24h event.

 

[exhorst]

It doesn't contaminate the scores. It contaminates the mode of the game. My point was, they should have created a separate mode like arcade mode if players didn't want to be mingled in with both A-Spec and B-Spec. I don't care about nitrous but I do feel that B-Spec just makes it so easy to advance in the game that it should have been separated out.

far out, how is a-spec and b-spec "mingled" together??, you have the option of going either way, so stop saying "oh i dont like B-spec it should have not been included". Just dont do B-spec if you dont like it, lots of people love B-spec, lots of others hate it. B-spec is only mingled in with A-spec if YOU let it by playing B-spec. fine that you dont like it, but stop whinging about it

 

[msako]

It's not whining. Go back and read what I wrote. I did not say that it should not be included. I said it should be separated so that there is no contamination. I don't hate it or like it. I just think it's like steroids and baseball. It contaminates all records, performances, car inventory, etc.

Actually, when I get to 100%, I plan to go back and do everything B-Spec except the gold licenses which I plan to do again in A-Spec mode.

I'm guessing that the same people spewing apologia for B-Spec are the same ones that are content with getting bronze medals. That's fine. Some of us are purists and enjoy a little challenge, even if it takes many months or longer to finish the game.

far out, how is a-spec and b-spec "mingled" together??, you have the option of going either way, so stop saying "oh i dont like B-spec it should have not been included". Just dont do B-spec if you dont like it, lots of people love B-spec, lots of others hate it. B-spec is only mingled in with A-spec if YOU let it by playing B-spec. fine that you dont like it, but stop whinging about it

 

[Crayola]

I agree with you. I will be doing the 24 hour race with 3 people. We will start this Saturday morning and switch off every 1-2 hours and complete the race in A-spec mode. I used B-spec mode a couple of times just to see what it was like and its really dumb. If i want to see myslef race i'll watch the replay.

I did it with 4 people, 2 hours shifts.

 

[Ax Battler]

I'm guessing that the same people spewing apologia for B-Spec are the same ones that are content with getting bronze medals. That's fine. Some of us are purists and enjoy a little challenge, even if it takes many months or longer to finish the game.

I don't want B-Spec I need it, I have no choice PD forced me to make it a necessity there's no other way I could do the endurance races.

In order to A-Spec a 24hr race I'd need the PS2 on for about 8 or 9 days whilst I'm out at work and going about my life. I don't know how safe that is to do and we've had brief power cuts a few times which would obviously switch the console off. Three races like that so you're looking at the PS2 being out of action to do anything else with for three weeks or so if there's no power cut.

If they'd put in regular save points then fair enough no need for B-Spec but the way the game is set up me and many others simply can't play the game without it. I had no problem with the challenge of GT1, GT2 and GT3 I played the game through from start to finish.

 

[nun0]

i use b-spec for the courses that i hate like opera, fuji '05, HK, etc etc.

 

[Thanh Ha]

I'm guessing that the same people spewing apologia for B-Spec are the same ones that are content with getting bronze medals. That's fine. Some of us are purists and enjoy a little challenge, even if it takes many months or longer to finish the game.

And like being content with getting bronze medals or being a "purist" who wants all Gold, the games give you the choice. I don't see the problem. Plus there's the A-Spec points for those who want to brag. How many a-spec points acquired vs. number of "days" taken to complete the game.

 

[rk]

57 posts and every one of them deal with the utility or problem with b-spec racing. I bet not one of you has ever had the pleasure of watching b-spec Bob race your replay ghost. I too was b-spec naysayer. I also hated the 5 against one, suicide slam, tailhooking, AI vs organic racing in GT4, what aspect of real life racing does that represent, anyway? I forget exactly how I got into b-spec, probably to win a car or save a marriage or something...I quickly realized Bob was at a serious disadvantage, it didn't seem right that my beautiful tunes were being shredded buy the other 5 AI's. I didn't like being slapped, but at least I could kick their ass'. Then it happened. I was tuning my sweet new Altezza at Deep Forest and accidentally clicked the b-spec option. I watched for a few minutes, what seemed like a ballet almost, of Bob chasing my ghost. Always about 4 tenths behind, always making the same mistakes- you'd think he would remember the hairpin...so I woke up 140 laps later and realized I was on to something. I put Bob to work. Now, with over 5000 b-spec points, Bob is still slower than me, but far, far more reliable. He does not seem to have my attention disorder, he does not get distracted or bored. He is currently driving the R92CP 37 seconds ahead of the Pescarolo C60, lap 51, at Infineon. I had to practically drive HIM to get him through the pack the first few laps, otherwise he would probably STILL be drafting the XJR. Bob's driving responds to how I work the "coaching" buttons. I have had to learn all Bob's strengths and weaknesses, he has lost endurance races by 15 seconds and championships by one point, either of which I could have won with my mortal skills (or better management). Yes I need to improve my skills, but I prefer to race my friends, usually. Using Bob has given me an entirely new perspective, possibly an Enzio Ferrari'esque perspective, I could not get from ANY other game. You try tuning up a trick R8, handing it to your best (only) driver, knowing in advance it will need a frame refresh when he is done with it, then on lap 210 with a quarter tank and a narrow 1 st place having to decide whether to allow the refueling.
In the time that I have written this, Bob's lead has grown to over 1 lap at #59. THIS time we will win.

 

[JohnBM01]

What do you mean "I don't get it?" You're not a bad GT racer if you rely on B-Spec. If you're a horrible racer at a certain track, don't you want your B-Spec racer to help you? I remember at times when I finished horribly against tough competition, but my B-Spec racer eased my troubles by placing better than me. Whatever you can do to get a better result for a race, don't you want to take advantage of it? If a race is boring and you don't feel like doing it, don't you want to have B-Spec ease your trobules? You're not racing manually in B-Spec, all you're doing is having someone else do the race for you, for better or worse.

I hate talking about this motorsport, but take NASCAR. Racers like Jimmy Spencer HATE road course racing when NASCAR Nextel Cup hits road courses. So if Spencer wants to, he could just run a road course race and end up crashing out, or he can hire a road racer to help him out and maybe get a better finishing position. A-Spec: Jimmy Spencer races a road course. B-Spec: Jimmy Spencer hires someone else do the racing for him. If you want 100% completion, sometimes you'll have to use every trick in the book to win. And if it means using B-Spec a lot, then so be it. I'm not going to hate you for not using B-Spec. Hell, I'm not going to hate you if you use B-Spec for most of the races (except Driving Missions, Special Condition Races, etc.). So you don't get B-Spec? As our own LoudMusic says in his custom title, "Think before you speak." B-Spec isn't your enemy. It's your friend. I always consider me and my B-Spec counterpart as teammates. So if I don't win, my B-Spec racer might. Real GT racing has teammates. That's true from the JGTC all the way up to FIA GT. How can it be cheating if it can help you win races you probably can't win?

I'm a Gran Turismo veteran, and even I have shadows in my racing talent. If I can't win, maybe my AI counterpart can. If it wins, I win. So my counterstatement to the title of this thread would be, "I don't get GT gamers who don't get B-Spec." Dig?