B-Spec - I don't get it

[phattboy]

You must have a defective version. On my KS version, pressing 'select' shoots 5 homing rockets that zero in on my competition. Although, if the lead car is too far ahead, the last remaining rocket hits me. Time for a chassis refresh.

 

[Lethalchem]

I plan on playing the game in B spec for enduros and for re running certain events at the moment to train my driver up to the 7000 points required to make him a decent driver.
I don't have the time to run all the 1000 km and 24 hour enduros in A spec.
I am playing by the rules of the game and am not cheating.
I also do not expect everything for nothing as you imply people that use B spec do.
B spec makes the game more playable for more people.
If I could save in a enduro then I would A spec them.
It is not practicle for me to leave my game paused while I have a break from GT4 as I have 2 children also wanting to play and use the PS2 when I am not using it.
I do agree that the 24 hour races are lame in there current format. (sSaying day time for 24 hours is just wrong).
Use B spec and learn to value its addition.

You are saying we have to earn things which is correct in real life but I think you are forgetting that this is a game which is used for entertainment and each person has the right to play it the way they want to.
Please stop calling B spec players lazy. Time restricted may be a nicer description.
Most important is that we all should respect each members choice on how they plan to play the game.

If my comments don't apply to you, then they don't apply to you. It's as simple as that. You mentioned re-running events in B-spec, and that's perfectly fine. I mentioned that in my original post as well. Not having time to do an enduro? Sure, who wants to sit for 24hrs in a row? I know I sure don't! That's why I think it's lame.

HOWEVER, to say you simply can't find a way to race for 2-3 hours a night for 8 to 12 days SOMEWHERE in your life, no matter how busy, is very hard to believe. I'm 35, I have a life, a job, and a family. I'll probably have to run that event in 2hr spurts, but I'll get it done. Being inconvenienced for a "whole" week is hardly the end of the world.

On the other hand, if for whatever reason it's just IMPOSSIBLE for you to find any time to get it accomplished in any way at all, so be it. I suppose that's possible. I simply think in that case that part of the game should remain unfinished. SO you don't get 100% completion on your stats window. So you don't win this one car out of 700. So what, it's just a game, right? We can't always get everything we want.

Having a bad day are we?

At rapidly approaching 50, I wouldn't exactly think I could be described as having the "young mentality" that you describe. (Incidentally, neither do most of the young uns I know.)

Fact is, I have already done my stint in A-spec and now am on the flip side and finding it every bit as much work, if not more, to beat this game the hard way. B-spec without overpowered cars etc... 👍 Frankly, there is nothing lazy or lame about doing b-spec this way.

Oh yeah, I still have my a-spec card that I boot up every now and then, run a few b-spec races to get some cash to go buy a car I haven't driven yet and give it a whirl for a little entertainment to help me relieve the stress of my day. I sorta sounds like you might want to give that a try...

phattboy

If you've already completed the events in Aspec, there's nothing wrong with going back through and toying with Bspec. I never said the invention didn't have merits, just it's implimentation. As stated in my original post, I think Bspec should only be available for events already completed.

How many other games out there have an "automatic pilot" for people who find it too difficult or too tedious for them? None. "Bleh, I hate this sneaking through the rain forest looking for snipers, it takes too long and I have to pay attention to how much noise I make! That's lame, I just want the reward for getting to the end of the level. I think I'll switch on "Automatic Search and Destroy mode" and then go take a nap. I'll be so proud of myself when I beat this game! Woo!" 👎

I think we all know what the majority of people are using Bspec for, we've seen post after post on it already. I stand by my impressions. The guys arguing why it's so necessary because it's too hard to do the normal way are the same ones who take one instance where a person's life was saved by NOT wearing a seatbelt, and then try to use that as a generic argument why people are safer not using them at all.

 

[phattboy]

... another huge snip...

I think we all know what the majority of people are using Bspec for, we've seen post after post on it already. I stand by my impressions. The guys arguing why it's so necessary because it's too hard to do the normal way are the same ones who take one instance where a person's life was saved by NOT wearing a seatbelt, and then try to use that as a generic argument why people are safer not using them at all.

This does not apply to GT4 and it is degrading to people to make that leap...

I have seen most of the posts and it appears to me the majority of folks will likely end up using b-spec for whatever they decide they paid their $50.00 for. That is the beauty of it as Uncle Harry pointed out... It's entertainment for crying out loud. They paid their money (not a handout for most by the way) for it and that gives them the right to use it in any way they want.

You are equally entitled to use your copy however you want. What I don't get is why just because others aren't deciding to use their game how you have decided, you feel the need to throw out all the derogatory remarks about folks you don't even know. Whether your opinion is right, wrong or indifferent, you are expressing it in your posts in a very very derogatory way.

Why not just say, this is how I think it should be played or this is how I am going to play it and leave it at that? 👍

phattboy

 

[msako]

I just completed the 24H Nurburgring in A-Spec by myself. It took a little over a week and I lost quite a bit of sleep getting it done. But, it was worth it because I think I did something that others here cannot do. It's just like winning all of the golds. For whatever reason, others cannot do it and that makes it special.

Truthfully, I believe anyone can get all of the golds unless they have some sort of disability. They are daunting but not impossible with a ton of practice. I also believe that anyone can finish a 24H race, too. It's just that they choose not to. That's their choice. No problem with that.

The problem I have the the B-Spec contamination (yes, lame flamers, it is contamination, flame away) is that it's not sorted out so for virtually no effort, other than a few button clicks you get the prizes. What sort of "prize" is that? It's more like a gift or charity at that point if you didn't have to do anything to earn it. Basically, I view B-Spec (the way it is currently as you describe without having to finish A-Spec first) is that it's a software gameshark.

I think your "automatic search and destroy mode" comment is very appropriate for this thread. What good is that? Gee, I can push buttons. I can win all of the prizes and accumulate a huge chunk of cash. Whoopee.

Lastly, your comment about the game going unfinished is well-stated. I agree with this. There are plenty of video games I play on the PC that I never finish. That doesn't take anything away from it. I prefer ton ot finish over using an aid or cheat. It just doesn't feel right and instant gratification is not my game.

If my comments don't apply to you, then they don't apply to you. It's as simple as that. You mentioned re-running events in B-spec, and that's perfectly fine. I mentioned that in my original post as well. Not having time to do an enduro? Sure, who wants to sit for 24hrs in a row? I know I sure don't! That's why I think it's lame.

HOWEVER, to say you simply can't find a way to race for 2-3 hours a night for 8 to 12 days SOMEWHERE in your life, no matter how busy, is very hard to believe. I'm 35, I have a life, a job, and a family. I'll probably have to run that event in 2hr spurts, but I'll get it done. Being inconvenienced for a "whole" week is hardly the end of the world.

On the other hand, if for whatever reason it's just IMPOSSIBLE for you to find any time to get it accomplished in any way at all, so be it. I suppose that's possible. I simply think in that case that part of the game should remain unfinished. SO you don't get 100% completion on your stats window. So you don't win this one car out of 700. So what, it's just a game, right? We can't always get everything we want.



If you've already completed the events in Aspec, there's nothing wrong with going back through and toying with Bspec. I never said the invention didn't have merits, just it's implimentation. As stated in my original post, I think Bspec should only be available for events already completed.

How many other games out there have an "automatic pilot" for people who find it too difficult or too tedious for them? None. "Bleh, I hate this sneaking through the rain forest looking for snipers, it takes too long and I have to pay attention to how much noise I make! That's lame, I just want the reward for getting to the end of the level. I think I'll switch on "Automatic Search and Destroy mode" and then go take a nap. I'll be so proud of myself when I beat this game! Woo!" 👎

I think we all know what the majority of people are using Bspec for, we've seen post after post on it already. I stand by my impressions. The guys arguing why it's so necessary because it's too hard to do the normal way are the same ones who take one instance where a person's life was saved by NOT wearing a seatbelt, and then try to use that as a generic argument why people are safer not using them at all.

 

[msako]

Actually, the more I read here and the more I think about it, the more I stand by what I originally said. B-Spec contamination ruins the achievement of acquiring cars and golds just like a game shark or buying a memory card off of E-Bay does. It's just that B-Spec is sanctioned by PD and part of the game. I don't think it would have required a separate DVD. I think it could have been separated out like arcade mode is. I have a friend who can't waste time with the licenses and plays 100% in arcade mode and really enjoys the game because he gets to drive decent cars in arcade mode. But, he doesn't win gold medals and he doesn't accumulate cash to buy cars, either. They could have just setup a separate mode and compartmentalized the prize lists, money, etc.

"Prepare for lame flames?" Are you ready for a tongue lashing? Just joking!

Like you, Msako, I'm an avid Sim City fan myself. I stopped playing it for a while as the magic kind of faded as I stopped playing it a lot. But just like GT4's B-Spec mode, you're still racing. I've been thinking about this thread more, and I kind of have a better understanding of this. I think you're probably wanting Gran Turismo Mode to be two different versions. So I can imagine if GT4 was on two DVDROMs- one A-Spec, the other B-Spec. I can also imagine GT4 like an RPG with two different endings and two different ways to beat the game. Why are A-Spec and B-Spec integrated together rather than two different modes? Well, I can think of a big reason. One is because that not everyone is like you. You don't see me posting replies about taking a stock 1949 VW Beetle against LMP race cars at either Le Mans endurance now, do you? What about a Fiat 500R against 400hp beasts at Nurburgring Nordschleife? As I've said in the past, account for everyone. Account for everyone. You're not going to be the only person in the world who'll play GT4. Since many others will play the game, many others will have many different tastes. And if one of those tastes is to become a better GT racer, but can't work his/her magic in A-Spec, you'll want to relieve their tensions by bringing B-Spec mode in. So with some magic in terms of getting B-Spec to work, you don't have to race in it if you don't want to. To say that B-Spec is doing the racing for you and takes away actually earning a win is horse crap to me. How is it cheating? It doesn't enable Super Tires or fire rocket launcher blasts to the competition, so tell me how having an AI racer do the racing for you is considered "cheating."

A reason why you don't "get" B-Spec is because you don't account for everyone. Not everyone is Michael Schumacher. Not everyone is the great Tommi Makkinen. Not everyone will be the next Mario Andretti or Sir Jackie Stewart. Wouldn't you rather give inexperienced GT racers a chance to improve their skills instead of being belittled by "I got 100% completion" and all that? One last rhetorical question: would you rather be a GT champion, or an also-ran?

 

[msako]

You're misinterpreting my comments. I really don't care if people run B-Spec mode. What I don't like is the fact that the prize pool is contaminated. If someone says they have this or that car, this much or that much cash, what does that mean? It's meaningless without explanation on how it was acquired. I just finished the 24H Nurburgring in A-Spec mode. It took me a little over a week. I have my F1 car but so does anyone else who wants to put their game into B-Spec mode. That car would have been far more special, even to the B-Spec apologists, if it was not accessible via autopilot. The gold licenses are special because you can't B-Spec them. If you could B-Spec the licenses, what would that mean? Geez, what an exciting game it would be!

I plan to finish all of the game in A-Spec mode, including all of the enduros. I also plan to go back with another memory card and do the same thing with B-Spec mode after I'm done in A-Spec mode. It's like having a racer and a simulator for the price of one. Unfortunately, PD did not separate them out. That's a huge design flaw, IMO. Oh, and by the way, I have a job, family, obligations and no spare time to play but somehow, after putting the family to bed I carve time out of my sleep hours and enjoy playing. So, anyone who says they don't have time and that's why they require B-Spec mode doesn't get much sympathy from me.

Again, no rap on players who use B-Spec. It's a fine simulation tool. It just should not have been co-mingled with the racing part of the game. That's my opinion. It really started to hit home when I read posts very shortly (within a week) after the NA release of the game where players were boasting about their percentages, bank account and garage when I finally figured out what they were doing to get so far so fast. A friend of mine in Japan told me the same discussion threads happened there shortly after the Japan launch so I guess this is universal.

One other thing. I also am only collecting one car from each race and avoiding the Special Condition #2 repetition. Just like GT3, if you finish the enduros and the professional championships, you should have more than adequate cash saved up to do most anything you please. I just acquired 1.2MIL from the 24H 'ring enduro which is a nice prize, far more rewarding than running Special Condition #2 five times.

msako (and some others, but u are the main culprit), u seem to think people are inferior to u... just cos they use "b" spec.... get a ****in life!

i use, and will continue to use, "b" spec for long races... i will "a" and "b" spec when i want to (example: i have "a" specd El Capitan 200 miles twice now, "b" specd it once, and started with a and finished with b.... all with the same car... suzuki gsx r/4.... just cos i love the car)

i resent your comments that maybe those that "b" spec only have bronzes on the licences... man you're talking outta yer ass

given that "b" spec is in the game, i dont see how it could be seperated from the GT mode

i'm buggered if i'm gonna replay the game just so i can "b" spec it....

i have read write ups from people who have "a" specd the 'ring 24 hr, and i am in awe.... i suspect couldnt do it, well unless i played it over a few days (and maybe i will try one day.... maybe i can do it.... i just dont relish the thought LOL)

but, i wouldnt dare to knock anyone just cos they use "b" spec

contaminate scores??

if u dont wanna use it, then dont.... but dont whine about it ad nauseum

Gord

PS

my "b" spec driver (Suzi Wong, as i affectionately call her): overall skill 5054, 2465 miles (used for enduros)
"a" spec: 6558 (havent done any missions yet) 1860 miles 43.4% complete

i got to 48% before, but i hadnt done the special licence.... so i restarted the game, got the licence (couldnt believe it was so easy, i thought it was gonna be hard as nails lol)

and, i'm really enjoying the game

and, i love reading people's write up's and comments on gtplanet (this forum has added immeasurably to my enjoyment of GT4)

 

[Allnighte]

my friend and i used Bspec to finish the ring 24hr endurance race. we started at 7pm (our first mistake) and hadn't done any other endurance races before to get a feel for what might come up. so about 15 hours into it we took a 2 hour nap, and then were too exhausted to finish it in A-spec mode

next time, we'll get lots of sleep and wake up nice and early. and we'll have food pre-made, and we'll tune our cars better (6th gear was wayyy too tall on both of our cars). we won't pause it for bathroom breaks, and i'm going to try to pick a car to get at least 100aspec points

 

[osiris2k3]

You're misinterpreting my comments. I really don't care if people run B-Spec mode. What I don't like is the fact that the prize pool is contaminated. If someone says they have this or that car, this much or that much cash, what does that mean? It's meaningless without explanation on how it was acquired. I just finished the 24H Nurburgring in A-Spec mode. It took me a little over a week. I have my F1 car but so does anyone else who wants to put their game into B-Spec mode. That car would have been far more special, even to the B-Spec apologists, if it was not accessible via autopilot. The gold licenses are special because you can't B-Spec them. If you could B-Spec the licenses, what would that mean? Geez, what an exciting game it would be!

I plan to finish all of the game in A-Spec mode, including all of the enduros. I also plan to go back with another memory card and do the same thing with B-Spec mode after I'm done in A-Spec mode. It's like having a racer and a simulator for the price of one. Unfortunately, PD did not separate them out. That's a huge design flaw, IMO. Oh, and by the way, I have a job, family, obligations and no spare time to play but somehow, after putting the family to bed I carve time out of my sleep hours and enjoy playing. So, anyone who says they don't have time and that's why they require B-Spec mode doesn't get much sympathy from me.

Again, no rap on players who use B-Spec. It's a fine simulation tool. It just should not have been co-mingled with the racing part of the game. That's my opinion. It really started to hit home when I read posts very shortly (within a week) after the NA release of the game where players were boasting about their percentages, bank account and garage when I finally figured out what they were doing to get so far so fast. A friend of mine in Japan told me the same discussion threads happened there shortly after the Japan launch so I guess this is universal.

One other thing. I also am only collecting one car from each race and avoiding the Special Condition #2 repetition. Just like GT3, if you finish the enduros and the professional championships, you should have more than adequate cash saved up to do most anything you please. I just acquired 1.2MIL from the 24H 'ring enduro which is a nice prize, far more rewarding than running Special Condition #2 five times.

100% agree with you on this one. If you plan on rushing through the game fast as possible without picking up on any skill, technique, or knowledge, other than watching some letters fly around the track at 3x speed, then B-spec is perfectly fine.

When I first bought the game about three weeks ago, I completely abused B-spec, with almost 40% completion and 700 total A-spec points. I didn't learn anything other than to slap on a Stage 4 turbo and some racing tires and B-spec every race I could. Sure, it's awesome seeing all the cars you won and all the credits piling up, but really there was no sense of accomplishment watching B-spec do it's thing.

I restarted my saved game and A-spec'ed every race so far. I'm currently at 21.5% and 14,075 A-spec points (13 missions so far). I'm enjoying the races, even those "slow" races everyone seems to be too cool to race. I'm also in no rush to pass the game in three weeks and get that black f1 car.

It's all about what you get out of the 50$ game you bought. You guys bought the game and use it anyway you want, whether with or without B spec, or even gameshark whatever. I just feel that you get the most out of the game without having to use B-spec.

 

[phattboy]

@msako ...the B-Spec apologists... 👍

I love it! I also noticed and appreciated the intelligent and calm manner that you responded to what I saw as a very antagonistic response.

@osiris2k3 Good comments! 👍 A pretty convincing way to put it.

phattboy

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Personally, I would have preferred that you could only use B-spec on an event you've already completed. If you don't want to do it in A-spec first, then you just don't get to have it completed. Simple as that.

I like this idea, because I would be forced to run the 24 hour races. I don't even want to think about pressing buttons for 24 hours.

 

[Lethalchem]

This does not apply to GT4 and it is degrading to people to make that leap...

It certainly does, sorry you don't see the parallel. It's an example of how someone can take a single, obscure instance and use it to validate a point, when it's blatantly obvious the opposite is true for the majority of cases.

I have seen most of the posts and it appears to me the majority of folks will likely end up using b-spec for whatever they decide they paid their $50.00 for. That is the beauty of it as Uncle Harry pointed out... It's entertainment for crying out loud. They paid their money (not a handout for most by the way) for it and that gives them the right to use it in any way they want.

Total agreement with you there, not sure where you got the impression I felt otherwise. We're all simply offering OPINIONS here, nothing more or less.

You are equally entitled to use your copy however you want. What I don't get is why just because others aren't deciding to use their game how you have decided, you feel the need to throw out all the derogatory remarks about folks you don't even know. Whether your opinion is right, wrong or indifferent, you are expressing it in your posts in a very very derogatory way.

None of my commments have directly attacked anyone. If the shoe fits, and you're getting your feelings hurt, then that's your own issue. If my comments don't describe you or your style of play, I'm not really sure why it's bothering you (which it obviously is, and I find it rather humorous actually ).

The few instances where I have been sarcastic were formed in response to direct aggressive opinions I read on the first and second page of this thread which I didn't bother to quote. I'm simply matching their "enthusiasm" for their take on the topic.

Why not just say, this is how I think it should be played or this is how I am going to play it and leave it at that? 👍

phattboy

That's EXACTLY what I HAVE been saying. I've described what I think about tehe issue. How I choose to express it is my own to decide without the help of your censorship. I believe I have remained within the guidelines and rules of conduct for this site.

Do not blame your opponant for having too sharp a stick, blame yourself for not wearing any armor. 💡

 

[JohnBM01]

Well, I'm at about 56% completion after two weeks and a few days. Am I trying to rush through everything? I'm a full-time college student and have played this game almost every day. Am I rushing? No. Just trying to win as many races as I can. Trying to get as far ahead as I can. Oh, and if you want GT facts about me, here's one. I have never beaten any other GT game besides GT1. I still have never cleared an entire license test with Gold honors. Closest I came to doing so was GT3's A License tests.

GT4 sticks to me. Almost as if I've waited my whole life to play this game, and I'm playing right now with a tuned Mercedes SLR (since Mercedes dropped McLaren in recent times) in the Extreme Events. B-Spec mode is all about being able to win races when you don't wish to do it yourself. Depending on your skill level and maybe even if you really care to use B-Spec, it can actually help you. And for the record, there is a sense of accomplishment. When you're trailing (or even leading), you bump up the pace and decide when to overtake. To show you that B-Spec isn't all "let him/her do all the work," at times, I left the pace on "Push" and sometimes "Fast" when trailing. I have to be careful using these features because with either a bad car or a tough track, my B-Spec racer slid off the road, losing time, and sometimes, the entire race. So don't tell me that the B-Spec racer is perfect. It's human just like you are. The B-Spec racer may be just computer AI, but even it makes mistakes. You'll need to adjust the pace often so that you completely don't lose the race. By setting the right pace at the right time, you learn to adjust to situations and use anything in your power to win- just like in A-Spec. And when you're leading, you want a steady pace, look out for if you have to make a pit stop, and do almost anything to make sure to get into the lead and stay there. There is still strategy with B-Spec, so a B-Spec win can be just as important as an A-Spec win.

What's the primary controversy with this B-Spec anyways? Whatever happened to admitting that you're not that good with the track and the car? If there were no strategy to win, GT4 would be the easiest of the GT games. It's there. You just have to find it and use it as best as possible. Sorry for the longer-than-usual sound off.

 

[Alpinestar]

I use b spec because I have no desire to race trucks or micro cars or some of the other races necessary to access some of the real world tracks and supercars. Hell I just race the Ring and Ciruit de la Sarthe (Le Mans track) half the time anyways. I don't care much for the non-real world tracks.

 

[Ax Battler]

Oh, and by the way, I have a job, family, obligations and no spare time to play but somehow, after putting the family to bed I carve time out of my sleep hours and enjoy playing. So, anyone who says they don't have time and that's why they require B-Spec mode doesn't get much sympathy from me.

I don't have enough time to B-spec all the endurances, I don't expect sympathy it's just a fact. I will not leave my PS2 on for 8/9 days to do one race only to have a power cut (had one not long ago) and I won't sacrifice sleep for a game.

If they had no B-spec and put save points in the 24hr races I'd be happy with that, then we'd all have 'earnt' the big piles of credits and great cars properly, the way the game has been (stupidly imo) put together makes B-spec a necessity for many of us.

Having said that 24 hours doing one track would be damn boring, I want to enjoy playing a game not have to sit through a seemingly endless chore.

 

[Creative]

You keep talking about b-spec not allowing you to gain skil, or experience etc....Its a game guys.....personally I dont give 2 ****s if I dont have any 'skill' at GT4....I play for entertainment, not to tell my mates 'oh im good at playstation games' ...

 

[phattboy]

...None of my commments have directly attacked anyone. If the shoe fits, and you're getting your feelings hurt, then that's your own issue. If my comments don't describe you or your style of play, I'm not really sure why it's bothering you (which it obviously is, and I find it rather humorous actually ).

Glad you find it funny...

... How I choose to express it is my own to decide without the help of your censorship. I believe I have remained within the guidelines and rules of conduct for this site.

Do not blame your opponant for having too sharp a stick, blame yourself for not wearing any armor. 💡

You are absolutely correct although I was not perceiving myself as your opponent. I am sorry that you made that leap. I was not intending for this to be some sort of competition. I am also sorry if you misinterpreted what I was trying to say as some form of censorship.

BTW, I've been around long enough in life to no longer bother wearing any armour. It keeps me in pace with when I have pushed too hard on someone.

As for me and the topic, I will continue to use b-spec as I choose, be that for garnering funds, winning a race that counts toward winning the game, learning the best methods to train up "Rolf" or whatever other plethora of reasons I can think of. I will also not be counted as one who expects a free ride nor described as one who trys to justify life or death decisions on seat-belt laws because I "b-spec". (I'm still confused how we b-spec "apologists" fall in that category)

phattboy

 

[phattboy]

Here is an interesting general thought to consider:

When I did my first round in the game, when I shared the long races with my sons, I in essence made them b-spec drivers for me. At the end of the race, I kept the monopoly money and let the game put the car in my garage and then saved. Did I miss the essence of playing the game in so doing?

phattboy

 

[Brock5000]

I haven't used b-spec yet and don't have any immediate plans to do so. I bought the game because I enjoy the driving aspect of it and I'm not too worried about getting all the prize cars etc - did that in the past 3 gt games lol
That said, I'm sure I'll cave in one day and use it when I decide I want a certain car only obtainable in an enduro on a track I don't like or something.

however whatever your opinion is, whether you think it's lazy or the best thing since sliced bread, no one should have a go at someone else because you don't agree with the way they are playing the game.
If bashing off corners in an escudo is how someone gets their enjoyment from the game, who is anyone to tell them they are wrong? each unto their own

 

[Lethalchem]

If they had no B-spec and put save points in the 24hr races I'd be happy with that, then we'd all have 'earnt' the big piles of credits and great cars properly, the way the game has been (stupidly imo) put together makes B-spec a necessity for many of us.

Having said that 24 hours doing one track would be damn boring, I want to enjoy playing a game not have to sit through a seemingly endless chore.

I totally agree! The 24hr races are excessive in my opinion. While I don't feel they should have done away with B-spec altogether, I DO wish they would have limited the potential for abuse. I believe the developers included such long races thinking it would encourage the use of B-spec, but unfortunately it opened up all the other issues we've been discussing here as well.

You keep talking about b-spec not allowing you to gain skil, or experience etc....Its a game guys.....personally I dont give 2 ****s if I dont have any 'skill' at GT4....I play for entertainment, not to tell my mates 'oh im good at playstation games' ...

Ahhh...yet we continue to see threads such as the "100% complete club! Woo!", and the "WHat percertage have you completed??" where people brag about their progress in the game. With the inclusion of B-spec, I think % completed has become utterly valueless. It's like taking credit for a delicious meal that you watched soemone else make.