Bankfin Touring Car Championship - Round 15 & 16

[NizmoDr3]

Sorry about the start last night in the last race. I was kinda confused. I would have bunched the field but polar was already a full throttle and driving up my right side, so I figured I would just go...I had some family issues to deal with so even though I was the first person in the lounge, I only got to do the last race

Overall though it seems like a good series 👍 it's going to be interesting to see how this all plays put in the end

No worries Shoe ... at least you joined in the end ... 👍

The start is forgiven, but that is a reason for doing these test sessions ... try and get everyone informed as to what's for what when the season starts ...

 

[Shoe67]

On the quotes, I think we should have the pit stops. It would make the races so much harder to win, because it is not just based on driver skill, it is also based on strategy. About the bunching up the field in the middle of the race. NO. This wouldn't work at all. That would allow people to cruise around the track and save tires, then midway through the race be right behind the leader, who was going at a decent pace, and might not have the tire life of the other drivers. About it starting on the 5th, I won't be home, so I can't make it to that race if it happens on that date

 

[NizmoDr3]

Thanks for the input Shoe ... 👍

But as I've said in the quotes, I might drop tyre wear out completely but still have pit stops just to keep the field together mid race and stop the leaders from running away ...

 

[Shoe67]

Thanks for the input Shoe ... 👍

But as I've said in the quotes, I might drop tyre wear out completely but still have pit stops just to keep the field together mid race and stop the leaders from running away ...

I personally think we should have tire wear. It would put a great twist in the series. What tires to use and if you should pit early or late. Makes for a much more interesting race

 

[Driver 101]

5th August start...yes please.


Regarding tire wear....mmmmm.....not sure about it.

For me having it on provides another element to the racing that rewards brilliant smooth driving. Preserving your wear to make it to the stop and still maintain a competitive race pace is difficult. It sometimes separates the field, especially wheel vs controller debate, however it does simulate real life racing, which I am sure is what we are all after.

What about allowing full tire choice, some may have a better set up for meduims and go for longer, while some will opt for softs and stop more, who knows, could add to more excitement, and leaving the level of anticipation very high. Its, like...."man I wonder what tires he will run" and so on.

We should do the sprint race first with tire wear, then reverse the grid for a feature race.

Rolling starts are the way to go, with a decent controlled formation lap set by the pole sitter. Feature race will be the last placed finisher from the sprint race.

These are just my suggestions, and also what I have raced in the past, it seems to work, the reverse grid can be quiet hectic, but with strict replay policing it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[NizmoDr3]

What about allowing full tire choice, some may have a better set up for meduims and go for longer, while some will opt for softs and stop more, who knows, could add to more excitement, and leaving the level of anticipation very high. Its, like...."man I wonder what tires he will run" and so on.

I like this idea ... 👍

 

[Cole]

Hey, Seth, is your Time Zone PST (GMT-8)? Just out of pure curiosity and hope that there might actually be another Washingtonian here xD

 

[freshseth83]

Yeah, I live in Lakewood, about 10 miles from Tacoma. I'm for tire wear ON. If the races are long enough, people will HAVE to pit, if you mandate a pit stop that solves people going to whole race without pitting at all. But I doubt that's possible unless you use HARD tires and do lap times 3 seconds slower than the rest. I say mandate two tire compounds per race. Switch it up sometimes and choose hards and mediums. Or softs and mediums. Throw people a curveball. Were not going to use the full tank so the times will come down as the fuel runs off.

 

[Shoe67]

Do you actually lose weight as you lose fuel I this game??? I didn't think it did...

 

[kk20]

What about allowing full tire choice, some may have a better set up for meduims and go for longer, while some will opt for softs and stop more, who knows, could add to more excitement, and leaving the level of anticipation very high. Its, like...."man I wonder what tires he will run" and so on.

I know I havent really commented much here but here I am. I totally agree with the comment above. 👍

Also, I wont be able to make the pre-season race as im not free at this time until mid august. So my question is when does the season start? Also whats all this talk about having races fortnightly?

 

[freshseth83]

Do you actually lose weight as you lose fuel I this game??? I didn't think it did...

Run times on fresh tires on a full tank of fuel in game, trot around for a while, get fresh tires and do the same on say half a tank. You'll see the difference and feel it.

 

[Shoe67]

Run times on fresh tires on a full tank of fuel in game, trot around for a while, get fresh tires and do the same on say half a tank. You'll see the difference and feel it.

So I should have a setup that runs for less rear weight, so my times are better at the end of the race???

 

[freshseth83]

You're not going to lose that much fuel, these cars aren't too powerful so the fuel loss isn't huge. But it doesn't matter. You'll still be faster with 3/4 tank on the same setup than with a full tank.

 

[NizmoDr3]

If the races are long enough, people will HAVE to pit, if you mandate a pit stop that solves people going to whole race without pitting at all. But I doubt that's possible unless you use HARD tires and do lap times 3 seconds slower than the rest. I say mandate two tire compounds per race. Switch it up sometimes and choose hards and mediums. Or softs and mediums. Throw people a curveball. Were not going to use the full tank so the times will come down as the fuel runs off.

Good idea Seth ... Tyre compounds used for a specific weekend could be determined a couple of days before the race ... But irrespective which direction this goes, I'm definitely up for Mandatory Pit Stops ...

I know I havent really commented much here but here I am. I totally agree with the comment above. 👍

Also, I wont be able to make the pre-season race as im not free at this time until mid august. So my question is when does the season start? Also whats all this talk about having races fortnightly?

When in mid August will you be free? ... I'm thinking of starting the Official Season on the 5 Aug ...
Races will be fortnightly so that this series is not rushed and people have a breather in between ...

 

[Driver 101]

There is also another option that we did with a Lupo Cup Series that kinda fits into the tin-top racing formulas.

You only allow two pit windows for the feature race with a a regulation of a minimum one stop required, you specify them by allocating what laps you are allowed to stop. If thought and calculated carefully, the first and second pit window can provide various options. Remembering you have to stop at least once in either window....or do a two stop in both.

If the laps are spaced out in such a way, a few options are available depending on driver preference.

1 - Go balls to wall and run on softs for the entire race stopping in both windows.

2 - Do a meduim then soft option stopping once.

3 - Do hards and stop in second window for softs.

I think you get the piont, options are huge, and throw in you qualifying position on where you start the race also can influence how you plot your strategy.

Sorry...I am getting carried away again.

 

[NizmoDr3]

I get your drift man ...

You only allow two pit windows for the feature race with a a regulation of a minimum one stop required, you specify them by allocating what laps you are allowed to stop. If thought and calculated carefully, the first and second pit window can provide various options. Remembering you have to stop at least once in either window....or do a two stop in both.

But what about having one pit window as in the OP ...

Races weekends would consist of two rounds per race night, with an Feature Race and a Sprint Race. The first race being the much longer Feature event of +-100km (depending on circuit) which has a mandatory pit-stop that has to be taken between 15% and 70% of the race distance, during which at least two wheels and tyres must be changed.​

So using ^this^ as an example, at Nurb the pit stop window will be between Laps 3 - 14 ... leaving a 6 lap window for a last sprint to the finish ...


And we still have this option ...

1 - Go balls to wall and run on softs for the entire race stopping in both windows.

2 - Do a meduim then soft option stopping once.

3 - Do hards and stop in second window for softs.

 

[freshseth83]

That gets too complicated and confusing, then people will miss the window, pit some other time and stewarding gets hectic. My idea is just set a minimum lap per stint for the tires. With two compounds people may opt for mediums because they're faster, but will fade faster than hards. If you have a 30 lap race at a short track, like Rome- softs will last maybe 12 laps. Mediums will last possibly 18 laps. So you can have a choice of starting on the slower tire, but go further then switch to the softs, or the other. This is how I do it in 90s LeMans. These cars can go further on tires though since they're less powerful. Like VLN @SSR5, I went an easy 13 laps on mediums, and that track is very twisty.

So my idea is- 30 lap race; start race on tires you qualify on (softs, mediums). Minimum lap amount is lets say 8 laps. So those on Softs may elect to pit early, say on lap 8 because their tires are going away. But will mediums last 22 laps? Probably not. So you'll be forced to strategize. Go longer on slower mediums, or go fast on softs and possible have to pit more than once or twice.

 

[NizmoDr3]

Okay ... Decision's final ...

Race procedure revisions ...

• Full Tyre/Fuel wear on for the Feature Race
  
• Hard, Medium and Soft Tyres allowed
  
• At least one Mandatory Pit Stop
  
• You MUST start the race with the tyres you qualified on
  
• Sprint Race will begin BEFORE the Feature Race
  
• Feature Race will run in reverse grid order of the Sprint Race

 

[KingSakery]

I would suggest to kill the Tire/Fuel wear only for the Sprint. It should be the Drivers Race.
Halve the points for the Sprint too due to the length.

I like the suggestion that the Two Tire Compounds that are eligable for the Races, are announced during the week of the Race.
So lets say at Monday you announce for Track X (which is used on Sunday) that the two Compounds are RH and RM. (Or RM/RS, RH/RS)

This would spice things up because RS tires cover setup flaws a bit and the behaviour of a car changes with weaker Tires => I dig this totally (but if not done I´m cool too)


€dit: Tried the EVO RM at Nürb GP/F with 300bhp and 1120kg (like the Scooby STC) but it´s waaay off pace.
Will try some other specs for her because she drives good but not fast

 

[freshseth83]

That works. To make it fair, you should implement a minimum lap per stint rule so people don't pit lap one for hards and drive the whole race that way without worrying about tire wear killing their pace.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

I would suggest to kill the Tire/Fuel wear only for the Sprint. It should be the Drivers Race.
Halve the points for the Sprint too due to the length.

I like the suggestion that the Two Tire Compounds that are eligable for the Races, are announced during the week of the Race.
So lets say at Monday you announce for Track X (which is used on Sunday) that the two Compounds are RH and RM. (Or RM/RS, RH/RS)

This would spice things up because RS tires cover setup flaws a bit and the behaviour of a car changes with weaker Tires => I dig this totally (but if not done I´m cool too)

In PMs besprochen; we don't want it to become ITCC 2.0. The bumps and crashes are caused by the short race length/lack of ability to pass with strategy. ;(

 

[NizmoDr3]

Tried the EVO RM at Nürb GP/F with 300bhp and 1120kg (like the Scooby STC) but it´s waaay off pace.
Will try some other specs for her because she drives good but not fast

Maybe she should run at Mazda specs (350/1070) ...

That works. To make it fair, you should implement a minimum lap per stint rule so people don't pit lap one for hards and drive the whole race that way without worrying about tire wear killing their pace.

How many calculations will be needed to determine each compounds life at the different tracks?

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

Maybe she should run at Mazda specs (350/1070) ...



How many calculations will be needed to determine each compounds life at the different tracks?

There is no calculation. You have to test how many minutes tires last for. ;( It's a bother.

 

[NizmoDr3]

In PMs besprochen; we don't want it to become ITCC 2.0. The bumps and crashes are caused by the short race length/lack of ability to pass with strategy. ;(

In both testing sessions, it has been shown that all the guys race clean and fair ...

There is no calculation. You have to test how many minutes tires last for. ;( It's a bother.

Which complicates things more ... that's why a 2 Tyre Compound per Race Weekend could be the way to go ...

 

[KingSakery]

Just say minimum of 2 or 3 laps. No calculations should be done.
In this case no one could use Lancers Deep Forrest pit-strategy (directly after the start lap pitting => not even done a complete Lap on the harder compound)

 

[Shoe67]

Tire wear should be turned off for the sprint race, so the winner is based on pure driver skill. But the feature is definitely better with tire wear so that it becomes more strategy

 

[freshseth83]

That's not needed. Just make it at least 15%-20% of the race distance. So if 40 laps, minimum 6 or 10 lap stint depending on how long the track is (Spa, LeMans, Suzuka for 6 laps). 30 laps would be 5 or 6 laps minimum stint. Just multiply the number of laps, TIMES .15 or .20! ex. 30X.20=6!

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

In both testing sessions, it has been shown that all the guys race clean and fair ...



Which complicates things more ... that's why a 2 Tyre Compound could be the way to go ...

Everyone races clean and fair, when there's time. ITCC started out clean as a whistle in preseason, and exploded during JZR's stay, AND at Madrid. Then, with only five drivers at Clubman Stage Route 5, all of the passes were clean, but at Nürburgring, the third race was frantic. ;( It's simple:

Crashes=cars x passing zones / track width / race length.

For example:

10 cars x 7 passing zones / 3 cars wide / 4 laps= 5.7 ish.

Those are real stats, from ITCC @ Nürburgring GP/F. There were actually around 6 crashes.

Now, double four laps to 8 = 2.85 ish. And, if you add strategy to the mix, half of the passes will be made in the pits. Now the possibility of crashes I mentioned is at 1.42 ish. That's a significant reduction...

 

[OneManRiot]

I agree. I think tyre wear should be disabled for the sprint race. If you look at the current BTCC in the sprint races they dont do pitstops...

Just my two cents...

 

[NizmoDr3]

I was watching my tyre wear at Nurb, when we had it on ... Due to the nature of the track and possibly my driving, my Soft's lasted a good 6/7 laps ... the FR's do have better tyre wear functionality, but if I got only those laps out of my soft's then what will the AWD or FF guys get from their tyres? ... How much time will be lost if you run Med's or Hard's for the next 13/14 laps? ...

Swapping compounds for each race weekend could prove interesting and 'Spice things up" for the Feature Race ... e.g. Only RS and RH for Nurb at the first round ... that way when if drivers start on Hard's then they'll qualify lower, but will be able to leap frog the others in the pits ... the guys who quali on Soft's will have to pull a strategic plan out of their 🤬 to secure victory ...

Ross Brawn Tactics anyone? ...