Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

Well, Sauber must have done really poorly, because now I have to drive one of Vauxhall/Opel's worst cars. No, really. The only Vectras I like are the ones that were run in the BTCC, because the road car means very little to me. Still, because I am not British, I'll choose the side of the Lightning. Opel it is.

Also, thanks for taking my idea and improving it even further, no wonder you're the boss here. I'm talking about this, of course:

Great understanding @Niku Driver HC, with one caveat: If your daily driver is a Bugatti Veyron, then the Ferrari F430 is kind of a beater. Then again, if the Veyron is your daily driver, then you probably have access to a Ferrari FXX, or some other car that makes it pale in your comparison. $25k for a set of rubber is an afterthought, but where are you going to put your weekly groceries? There's also the random speed bumps that you'll likely encounter, and most of those aren't made to a certain specification, and the ones that are come up to the top of the wheel arch.

Sleepers can be cars that out perform your expectations, or bore you to suicide. Whichever you pick, be ready to justify your explanation. There is no wrong answer, so long as you can show that you put some thought into your observation.

Welcome to the adult-ish version of "show your work".

See, @CSLACR? Combine this with my lastest post directed at you, and you have the ultimate answer to the "Beater/Sleeper vs Thumbs up/down" question.
 
.....................

I don't mean to sidetrack you guys, it's a silly technicality I suppose, I just was disappointed to see a 17 second-1/4 car with a 7.3L under a giant gold bird on the hood get called a "sleeper". I like Firebirds and the Bandit Trans Am is no exception, but it's as far from a sleeper as it gets.

Thank you for not taking offence at my facetiousness - I'm a silly guy, and tend to get tired of being serious; RL is a serious enough business for me.
Let me add that you have a valid point - though not a new one; many have come in here over the years to challenge our take on what the whole 'Beater or Sleeper' schtick is, and our treatment of it.
In the end it's McD's say - and we follow his take.

Objectively, yes, one could look at a car and classify it as a beater or sleeper - a car that is not to supposed to perform as it should. Or claims to perform.
We challenge this.
The car proclaims it performs? Well, then we'll test it out. If it performs according to the way the public would perceive it - for instance if it's supposed to be fast, and it isn't - we call it a beater. If it goes much faster, performs a lot better than we envisioned, then we consider it a sleeper - as in - 'gee, this car is a heckuva lot better than we thought.'

Sometimes it falls into neither category - performs as it should, and that's when we fall back on subjective votes; the Veyron is a beater to some, they can't get it to move, and a sleeper to others because it turned out to be an absolute monster.
Just a bit of fun, really, and gives us a chance to all test out the same car together and express what we feel about it.

The reviews also take different styles, and helps give vent to our creativity as well as love for things automotive. Some test alone on selected tracks, some talk about its history, some apply a story-line to it, and others just approach it from a purely fantasy-based view (if you read Chapters 1 and 2 of the COTW Gang Chronicles buried somewhere in this thread you'll understand that view.)
Others actually race online with the selceted car, stock, and base their reviews on how it performed for them at these trials.
But, if I step into your moccasins for a moment, however, I can see where you are coming from.
After all - the Firebird, a sleeper? Even worse, a beater?
It's a performance muscle car, and all in all, it behaves the way it should.

But how about the GT6 Firebird? Does it perform the way it should - for everybody? Does it handle shockingly well, well enough to surprise someone who never tested it out? Does it do dismally, contrary to the person's subjective expectations? These are the questions answered - and humans being as subjective as they are, and different driving styles coming into play, the car gets different reviews. Some found it hot, other's not.

Occasionally we even take out a car that is nowhere near the concept of beater or sleeper - the Ferrari GTO '84 for instance - it screams performance in every line of its looks, and its breeding and block states racer.
Yet, it surprised most of us by supassing expectations, (turning it technically into a sleeper) a car that will not let anyone down and a car that boosted our confidence in it. Same with the Alfa that won the COTW car of the year award. We expected performance - but uncovered more, a secret weapon. In other words, even while screaming performance, the screams were understated.
Sometimes it goes the other way around - we are bogged down with a car that just doesn't live up to the hype. That's when we call it a beater. Like the Veyron.
Well, some of us found it to be a bit of a beater. But that's how the chips fall.

No doubt if you joined us in a review, your opinion of the Firebird would be closer to calling it a sleeper - a car that can do much more than it promises - even looking as hot as it does.
But there are others who just cannot make it go. For them it's a beater.
I do hope that may explain some of our shenanigans.
 
I think the GT6 Firebird did an excellent job of A) showing that Comfort Softs can be fun, and B) demonstrating how all that extra rubber translates to handling and the road. Even with Comfort Softs, it was a well-thoughtout car, and that I did not expect.

Muscle car? Hard to call it that when even the Euro cars of the time have a hard time keeping up. And the power it made, even after the new emissions stranglehold? Forget about it!
 
Well that was pretty short. Was BAP_Shockz's Vectra Experience that bad? :lol:

Maybe Top Gear had a hand in helping me form an opinion on the Vectra, but dear god, it gives me so many reasons to hate it. It looks drab, like a boring businessman wearing the same grey suit for a week. It's V6 is horribly sluggish, and I could age fine wine before it gets up to speed. The chassis was made for a pensioner, and not even tuning could save it's soul.

......I don't even hate the Crossfire as much as this...."thing".

......I have never wished death upon a car, so much so as this one. Thank god for the Insignia.
 
Maybe Top Gear had a hand in helping me form an opinion on the Vectra, but dear god, it gives me so many reasons to hate it. It looks drab, like a boring businessman wearing the same grey suit for a week. It's V6 is horribly sluggish, and I could age fine wine before it gets up to speed. The chassis was made for a pensioner, and not even tuning could save it's soul.

......I don't even hate the Crossfire as much as this...."thing".

......I have never wished death upon a car, so much so as this one. Thank god for the Insignia.

Damm son, that's some deep disdain you have for the Vectra. But really, I understand. I'll write my review on it soon, and you'll see just how average this car is...

And you'll see why I really don't think much of it in the first place.
 
Damm son, that's some deep disdain you have for the Vectra. But really, I understand. I'll write my review on it soon, and you'll see just how average this car is...

And you'll see why I really don't think much of it in the first place.


....That's the word I was looking for. Average.

Even if I was overexaggerating it's faults, even if it isn't as bad as I would like to remember it, it's so.......average, that you can't even say anything nice to make it feel better. It feels like the sort of car, in which the manufacturers said:

"Okay, we need a car to make money. It doesn't have to be fast, it doesn't have to look good, it just has to bring in money."
 
....That's the word I was looking for. Average.

Even if I was overexaggerating it's faults, even if it isn't as bad as I would like to remember it, it's so.......average, that you can't even say anything nice to make it feel better. It feels like the sort of car, in which the manufacturers said:

"Okay, we need a car to make money. It doesn't have to be fast, it doesn't have to look good, it just has to bring in money."

If only this Vectra was an OPC, huh? At least would have more flair behind it, and less of the average stuff. Unfortunately, PD has a way of choosing the wrong versions for oh so many cars...
 
Aaand double post, how shocking. Well, it's for a good cause, because:

One Vector off the family tree: 2003 Opel/Vauxhall Vectra 3.2 V6
Ah, gentleman, welcome. Here I am, with another edition of GT6’s COTW. Where jokes get overused, cars get abused, and people get shocked after knowing that Arcana Heart 3 actually got a European release.

(No really, I was shocked. I never even thought that a Japanese fighting game such as Arcana Heart would actually get another Euro release. And it was launched here last November. What the hell, Atlus?)

Ahem, sorry about that. Anyway, I have a good story for you today. It’s the story about a car that doesn’t really interest me, a car that was pretty nice to drive, and a Lexus. And no, it’s not the same car for all three roles.

Center City, USA. 29-05-2014. A young boy approaches a computer, with a Skype call waiting.

2.JPG


“Hey, Hugo? Can you hear me?”

“Yes, Joey, I can hear ya.”

“Have you arrived in Ronda yet?”

“I just did, why?”

“I just received a mail from Brad; he has this week’s COTW ready for you.”

“Ah yes, the car which fate was to be determined by Sauber’s latest F1 result… What about it?”

“Well, Brad just told me something about it. The car isn’t…

Ronda.jpg


Opel Vectra 3.2 V6. Codename: Cleland 010

“Good? I can tell that much, Joey.”

Yep, welcome to the 2003 Opel/Vauxhall Vectra. A car that never really had a high place in my consideration list. It’s a car that means very little to me. And the only good memories I have of one are usually tied to BTCC races, John Cleland, the whole lot. TOCA 2 and its sequels have portrayed the Vectra as a very competent racing car, one that had much success tied to its name. But sadly, the road versions left much to be desired. And this Vectra is not even the worst Vectra I’ve seen. Its ancestor, the Vectra B, was an unreliable, ungainly and terrible hunk of German junk that hardly ignited any proper car fan’s interest. And that includes yours truly, of course.

But let’s get back to the Vectra C, the car that is currently in my hands at this moment. As the predecessor of the Vectra B, the C had a lot of ground to cover. It had to be somewhat decent, if it wanted to shake off the horrible ghost that haunted both Vauxhall and Opel. Unfortunately, it never quite did such a thing, but we’ll get to that later. This specific Vectra is the top version that does not have the letters O, P and C attached to it; the 3.2 V6. And would you just look at it, huh? There’s hardly anything exciting about it. It’s mostly sharp, straight lines, and a neat little chromed line on the rear. I can’t really say much more about it, really.

But hopefully the track should redeem the Vectra, maybe it hides some amazing potential that I have never seen before. Maybe it is an intrepid touring car, much like its racing counterparts. And you know where you must test a German car like this, correct?

“Indianapolis?”

Silly Joey, no, it’s not Indianapolis. To the Nurburgring!

Nürburgring GP_F.jpg


Author’s note: All cars tested for this review were driven in their stock guise. No aids other than ABS were allowed, and all cars had three laps to set their best lap. Comfort Soft tires, the stock tires for all three cars, were the tire used. A DS3 controller pad was used by me, the player.

So, the GP/F layout of the ‘Ring awaits our three contestants. As you know, I always want to pick the cars closest to the current COTW’s PP rating. And sure enough, we have three cars that are very similar in many ways. But first, let’s get to the Vectra.

Nürburgring GP_F_1.jpg


With 208 hp and 1,510 kg, the Vectra is hardly what you’d call a balanced diet. And the weight distribution? A cringe-inducing 63:37 ratio. Ouch. So, we have all the ingredients to one poorly-cooked German sausage, in an average-looking package.

But surprisingly, the Vectra didn’t do that badly. Out of the three cars I tested, it stood right in the middle, in 2nd place. But here’s the thing; it’s just average. The car never really impressed me during the three laps I had with it, as it was mostly body roll coupled with understeer and tire screeching. Sure enough, the car shows that it made sacrifices in the name of comfort, and that it was never intended to be driven like a BTCC car. Sure enough, it does not understeer like a bar of soap slipping down a curved ramp, like its horrendous weight distribution ratio would lead you to believe.

But once you push the car to its limits, you realize that the Vectra will not go much further in a track environment. Once the tire screeching starts, and the nose begins to understeer, you will know that it’s time to slow down and just steer instead of trying to give it more power. The V6 engine does its job, but it never offers much acceleration or top speed in a track such as the ‘Ring. The spaced out gearbox does not help in the slightest, only offering just enough to keep the car going at a leisurely pace. It’s hardly Cleland-level of excitement, and it shows. The Vectra is just that; average. It’s time was 2.40.434 minutes. And who are the other competitors?

Nürburgring GP_F_2.jpg


Citroen C5 Executive. Codename: Plain Rims

Ah, ze French arrive, with their Chevron-mobile. The C5 Executive (how politely elegant is that name, huh?), in many aspects, is similar to the Vectra. With a PP rating of 392, it only loses two points to the Vectra. And with 207 hp pumping out of its 2.5 V6 engine, as well as a 1540 kg curb weight, it only loses 1 hp and 30 kg to the Vectra. However, it was enough to make the C5 the slowest of the trio, with a time of 2.42.779 minutes. The reason for such a time? It’s the fact that the C5 has even stronger pretensions of comfort than the Vectra. The engine/gearbox duo is even slower than the Opel, despite the similar horsepower ratings.

Mind you, that does not mean that the C5 is a worst car to drive than its German rival. On the contrary, I personally enjoyed driving the C5 more than the Vectra. I cannot quite put my finger in it, but it may be related to that “driving feel” that Citroen prides itself on so much. The C5 just felt smoother, even when it was being so slow. When I got in the so-called “groove”, I just wanted to take my time with the corners. Brake, slow down and then just carefully manage the car’s weight around the corner with only steering inputs. While the Vectra felt looser, the C5 felt more planted and comfortable. In other words, it was perhaps not trying excessively hard to be sporty. It’s hardly fast, and the power delivery may as well be nicknamed “Ze Escargot”, but the C5 was strangely attractive in my eyes.

Finally, the last car. If you actually paid attention and read the review up to this point, you have realized that the third car of my group was indeed the fastest around the GP/F layout of the ‘Ring. And who is this mysterious car? Who was the speedy mice that made the big European cats look like city pussies?

Nürburgring GP_F_3.jpg


Lexus IS200. Codename: Modern-day Trueno

Yep, the car that is solely known as the Lexus IS200. Or, if you know your Japanese car names well, the Toyota Altezza. Indeed, the Lexus outran both the Citroen and the Opel around the track, and won the whole contest. But why? Two simple letters, my friends:

FR. Or, if you prefer, rear wheel drive.

Indeed, the Lexus does not mind losing a bit of comfort, in exchange for more driving feel, more handling prowess and, in the end, more sportiness. After driving the C5 and the Vectra, the Lexus felt like a go-kart. It was just a far more exciting drive, because I could always kick the tail around a bit after exiting a corner. Do you think that could be possible with the Euro businessmen? Nope. And then there’s the engine; the venerable BEAMS 3S-GE. My god is this engine something. It just keeps on revving, far after both the C5 and the Vectra have lost their spark. And the gearbox helps by keeping the car close to the top part of the rev line. And since it is a naturally aspirated car, the Lexus has the added bonus of being one wild trip, as you climb up the revs the only a NA car can. And to top it all off, it’s the weakest engine of all, with only 206 hp! Not to mention that it does not use a V setup, which only makes the IS a more impressive car. The handling shouldn’t really need much explaining; it is by far the liveliest of all three sedans, always eager to get the tail sideways. Nothing else should really be expected from the same team who had their hands dirty with the famous Corolla AE86, the IS/Altezza is all fun, all the time. But you must be wondering; “Oh yeah, that is awesome and all, but I bet it’s the most expensive of the three”. Oh, my dear friends, no need to be worried. Because the Altezza is indeed CHEAPER than the Vectra, by almost half the Vectra’s price! At 24,000 credits, the IS gives you more thrills for less money. And that, in the end, is just the icing on a very good Japanese cake.

But back to the Vectra; in the end, the Vectra failed. Much like it failed in real-life. Both the C5 and the IS still live on, albeit in different guises. The Vectra? Not so much, as the C marked the end of the Vectra dynasty. And probably for good reasons. It never really stood out in the immense market of sedans, and it wasn’t good enough to overthrow the eternal Ford Mondeo from its throne as the best-selling sedan in England, much less in Europe. And in GT6, the Vectra also falls short of expectations. When you get outpaced by a Toyota sedan with fewer horses, you do not really have a chance of being called a sleeper. If this Vectra was an OPC, perhaps things could have gone differently. But as it stands, my reasons to dislike the Vectra still stand tall. If you want a sporty German sedan, buy a BMW 320i. If you want a sporty Opel/Vauxhall, get a Speedster. If you want a sporty Vectra, play TOCA 2…

Ronda_1.jpg


Lexus: Anata ga nanika dekiru koto wa, watashi wa yoriyoi okonau koto ga dekimasu. Mono wa, watashi wa anata yori mo yoi okonau koto ga dekimasu. (Anything you can do, I can do better. Anything, I can do better than you.)

Opel: Oh, nur den Mund halten... (Oh, just shut up...)

Pros:
  • Er, the Vauxhall has a decent colour choice?
  • And I guess it doesn't look too offensive...
  • V6 engine offers decent grunt;
Cons:
  • You can have far better perfomance by spending only 24,000 credits on a Lexus IS200;
  • Awful weight distribution;
  • Top Gear memories (Both because the show as we know has ended forever, and because they showed how much the Vectra was hated)
  • It worked better in BTCC racing...
 
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What are you talking about?
OPel VeCtra.
I cleare see an O, the letter P, and a C. in there! :lol:

I knew some smart alec would pick away at my reference. God dang you, you funny Russian. :lol: I was refering to this, by the way:

05_11_22_opel_vectra_opc_3_nagy.jpg


And please don't forget, you are always welcome to review my own, well, car reviews. I welcome proper criticism with open arms, so speak your mind. ;)
 
Getting a lap time of 1:32 in a stock Opel Vectra at Mid-Field is easy. Getting 1:31 is not so easy (using a DS3 anyway...)

But I did it. I actually did it. And imagine my surprise when I went to see which cars got similar lap times:

1:31.757 - Toyota MR2 1600 G-Limited Super Charger '86
1:31.920 - Opel Vectra 3.2 V6 '03
1:31.934 - Nissan Fairlady 2000 (SR311) '68
1:31.967 - Nissan 240ZG (HS30) '71
1:31.986 - Honda CR-X Del Sol SiR '92
1:32.375 - Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

Comparing it with pre-1990 sports cars, I'll go ahead and give the Opel the sleeper status.

Park it next to the Acura 3.2 CL Type-S '03 and the Opel becomes a beater. This Acura is over 2.5 seconds faster, and it's 4,000 Cr. cheaper.

Vectra (36,530 Cr.)
3.2L
208 hp / 6,000 rpm
221 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,510 kg (3,329 lbs)
394 PP

CL Type-S (32,420 Cr.)
3.2L
262 hp / 6,000 rpm
234 ft-lb / 3,500 rpm
1,563 kg (3,446 lbs)
419 PP
 
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Getting a lap time of 1:32 in a stock Opel Vectra at Mid-Field is easy. Getting 1:31 is not so easy (using a DS3 anyway...)

But I did it. I actually did it. And imagine my surprise when I went to see which cars got similar lap times:

1:31.757 - Toyota MR2 1600 G-Limited Super Charger '86
1:31.920 - Opel Vectra 3.2 V6 '03
1:31.934 - Nissan Fairlady 2000 (SR311) '68
1:31.967 - Nissan 240ZG (HS30) '71
1:31.986 - Honda CR-X Del Sol SiR '92
1:32.375 - Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four (ST165) '86

Comparing it with pre-1990 sports cars, I'll go ahead and give the Opel the sleeper status.

Park it next to the Acura 3.2 CL Type-S '03 and the Opel becomes a beater. This Acura is over 2.5 seconds faster, and it's 4,000 Cr. cheaper.

Vectra (36,530 Cr.)
3.2L
208 hp / 6,000 rpm
221 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,510 kg (3,329 lbs)
394 PP

CL Type-S (32,420 Cr.)
3.2L
262 hp / 6,000 rpm
234 ft-lb / 3,500 rpm
1,563 kg (3,446 lbs)
419 PP

Not entirely impressive that a modern car such as the Vectra can only be marginally faster than an old Fairlady (so old in fact, it's the one without a Z in its name), but there you go. I'd rather buy a MR2.

If pairing the Vectra with the CL makes the Vectra look terrible, you should pair it with the Lexus IS200, like I did. It was enough for the Vectra to be 2 seconds behind!

Also, top job getting a high 1:31 with a DS3, you sure are one good test driver. 👍
 
.....I hate the Vectra. End of review.

I'd like to nominate this for Post/Review of the Year.

...It looks drab, like a boring businessman wearing the same grey suit for a week. It's V6 is horribly sluggish, and I could age fine wine before it gets up to speed. The chassis was made for a pensioner, and not even tuning could save it's soul.

......I don't even hate the Crossfire as much as this...."thing".

......I have never wished death upon a car, so much so as this one. Thank god for the Insignia.

In all fairness, you were warned.

Park it next to the Acura 3.2 CL Type-S '03 and the Opel becomes a beater. This Acura is over 2.5 seconds faster, and it's 4,000 Cr. cheaper.

You know what the nicest thing about this car is? That all of my suspicions have been confirmed without requiring me to turn a single lap.

SUCKERS!

How about doing a Holden Commodore?

Sure, if you're buying. Anyone else want one? @CLowndes888 says they're on the house!

I knew some smart alec would pick away at my reference. God dang you, you funny Russian.

Yet you did it anyway. I guess the Mystery of the Missing Ukraine has been solved. Probably would've gotten away with it, had it not been for us meddling kids.

Damm son, that's some deep disdain you have for the Vectra. But really, I understand. I'll write my review on it soon, and you'll see just how average this car is...

And you'll see why I really don't think much of it in the first place.

Those headlights are beyond average ugly... that's Pontiac Aztec territory it's sniffing.

“I just received a mail from Brad; he has this week’s COTW ready for you.”

“Ah yes, the car which fate was to be determined by Sauber’s latest F1 result… What about it?”

“Well, Brad just told me something about it. The car isn’t…

*sigh* Heavy is the head that wears the Crown Victoria. No, seriously! That thing is nearly 2 tons!

Mind you, that does not mean that the C5 is a worst car to drive than its German rival. On the contrary, I personally enjoyed driving the C5 more than the Vectra.

This tells me everything I needed to know, the same way that I learned everything I needed to know about Breaking Bad the moment I saw poor Walter White driving the Pontiac Aztec.

Poor, poor bastard. This also the reason why I don't buy BMW and Merc's B.S. about "German Engineering". Congrats, you made a turd that could be polished. That's all well and good, but we still have to flush before we leave, and wash our hands.

It's the flushing that I'm looking forward to the most.

Sure enough, the car shows that it made sacrifices in the name of comfort, and that it was never intended to be driven like a BTCC car. Sure enough, it does not understeer like a bar of soap slipping down a curved ramp, like its horrendous weight distribution ratio would lead you to believe.

The Shogun of Harlem would like a word with you. Now.

And please don't forget, you are always welcome to review my own, well, car reviews. I welcome proper criticism with open arms, so speak your mind. ;)

Have you met these people? Trust me, this is the absolute LAST thing you want in your life. Lower than cancer, lower that your ex-girlfriend calling you while you're on a date with her brother, lower than the stance fags... lower than Bill Cosby as your next Little League coach.

Could be wrong, but I think so far we're done here. Next victim, please.

Vauxhall/Opel Vectra: The official car of FML.
 
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God und damm, Mcclaren, that must be one the rare times when you actually responded to ALL of us! It must be Easter or something...

I'd like to nominate this for Post/Review of the Year.

Guess it pretty much sums up the whole car in one simple, cohesive package. Congrats, @BAP_Shockz. You deserve that accolade. 👍

In all fairness, you were warned.

That doesn't make it any better, you silly American. You could've at least picked a small fun car. I dunno, a Peugeot 106 GTI, a Daihatsu Storia X4. Something, anything but this average German whip. Do you know how hard it was for me to actually speak anything about the Vectra? This car is so average I couldn't remember anything decent to say about it. I spoke more about the Lexus than the Vectra. And that's tragic.

For the Vectra, that is. And also because the Lexus is an actual fun car, instead of just being "comfort 24/7 motherf:censored:"...

You know what the nicest thing about this car is? That all of my suspicions have been confirmed without requiring me to turn a single lap.

Oh, but you should turn a single lap. You should see for yourself the error of your ways, picking a mundane Opel when you could've given us a Speedster Turbo. See for yourself how much of an average bore this car is. Come on, I dare you. :mischievous:

Yet you did it anyway. I guess the Mystery of the Missing Ukraine has been solved. Probably would've gotten away with it, had it not been for us meddling kids.

I should refrain from doing that type of jokes in future reviews then, because CSM would just pick away at all of them. And then the joke would be lost right away. :lol:

Those headlights are beyond average ugly... that's Pontiac Aztec territory it's sniffing.

Eh, the Aztek is a worst package. This, on the other hand, is just duller than a can of ASDA beans. And no one likes the blandness of a can of ASDA beans. At least the Aztek has the distinctive feature of being cringe-inducing when you stare at it. When you stare at a Vectra, you can't feel anything. It's like staring at a robot puppy; you know it's a puppy, but it ain't cute. It's just a robot without any sort of emotions.

*sigh* Heavy is the head that wears the Crown Victoria. No, seriously! That thing is nearly 2 tons!

Can't blame the kid, he was just speaking the truth. He actually told me your voice sounded like the voice of someone who wanted to piledrive himself through a table. "Sauber doing bad means that Brad won't spare you from darkness", Joey said. And I should've listened to him, but I just had to see for myself...

This tells me everything I needed to know, the same way that I learned everything I needed to know about Breaking Bad the moment I saw poor Walter White driving the Pontiac Aztec.

Poor, poor bastard. This also the reason why I don't buy BMW and Merc's B.S. about "German Engineering". Congrats, you made a turd that could be polished. That's all well and good, but we still have to flush before we leave, and wash our hands.

It's the flushing that I'm looking forward to the most.

Again, at least the Aztek has something to speak for itself. What can this Astra say?

"Oh, my far better (and younger) Astra Coupe cousin was a DTM star, and here I am, just being unable to challenge a Ford Mondeo..."

And well, the C5 just felt smoother to drive. What was I supposed to say. Sure, the C5 was slow as a Escargot, but at least it felt confortable in its shoes. The Vectra just felt like it was trying too hard, like it wanted to show off while knowing that it would never even get close to the IS200's exhaust tip. BMW and Merc are at least competent in their job. You still see 3-series, C-classes being sold brand new. Vectras? Haha, that did so badly that the Insignia was better already, when it wasn't even a production car!

The Shogun of Harlem would like a word with you. Now.

No, not the Shogun! I deeply apologise, sensei. It won't happen again, please spare me! I did not want to insult the Principality of Harlem... :scared:

Have you met these people? Trust me, this is the absolute LAST thing you want in your life. Lower than cancer, lower that your ex-girlfriend calling you while you're on a date with her brother, lower than the stance fags... lower than Bill Cosby as your next Little League coach.

What can I say? I suppose I enjoy placing blind trust in people more often than not. Lower than Bill Cosby being my LL coach? Nah, I'd enjoy that, at least it would be funny to see him give orders to my team in that weird voice of his.

And besides, I really want to know if I did a good job in my reviews, I like constructive criticism. And you can help too, even after this... ahem, "mistake" of yours.

Could be wrong, but I think so far we're done here. Next victim, please.

Vauxhall/Opel Vectra: The official car of FML.

Perfect. Now, about that great car you promised us...

I don't care, just pretend that Maldonado had a major accident that wiped out half the field and gave both Saubers a points finish. Do it.

And that last part? Couldn't have said it better myself.
 
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I'm pretty sure I can guess our 2015 Beater of the Year already. :lol:

They say if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

With that said, here's a small review of the Vectra.
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Ok, moving on. :sly:

Seriously though, if Mr Clarkson managed to review the original Vectra without saying anything about it, what does that tell you?


Not even the hot version of this Vectra is any good, yes it has some potent straight line speed but,

7e60112b0.jpg


You WON'T make the turn at the end as the understeer is insane. :scared:

Anyway, enough of the Vectra, Let's talk about the 3 VGTs, the 2 Alpines and Lexus LF-LC GT.

We'll start with the "Base model" Alpine, it's quite the looker,

Especially when the airbrakes deploy. :drool:

Both the Alpines are powered by 4.5 litre V8s making around 450hp with an oil change, but weighs 900kgs so they do get a move on pretty sharpish.

Handling, this car has split opinions about the handling as some say it's very understeery and others say it's very good.

For me it does understeer, but I also know it won't bite mid turn so I just adjust my lines to compinsate.

The Race Model is mechanically the same as the normal version except it's sporting a big rear wing with more rear downforce and race tyres as standard.

They both reward a driver if they get used to the understeer with quick lap times and good fun. ( pro tip: shift gears between 6,250rpm to 7,000rpm as power drops off afterwards. )

The Lexus LF-LC GT packs a lot more power, almost 630hp from its super high revving, turbo charged, KERS assisted engine.

If you looked at the back of the Lexus and thought, "I couldve swore that I picked the Lexus and not the Toyota FT-1 VGT." You'll be forgiven as it was same people who designed that and also designed this. :P

Of the two however, I would take the Lexus as it doesn't suffer from chronic high speed understeer like the FT-1.

The KERS does work, it's just not as potent as the 2020 GTR's.

All 3 VGTs sound good, drive good and look good.

Certainly a welcome addition to GT6. 👍
 
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God und damm, Mcclaren, that must be one the rare times when you actually responded to ALL of us! It must be Easter or something...

Yes, but you still haven't found all of the eggs. :)

That doesn't make it any better, you silly American. You could've at least picked a small fun car. I dunno, a Peugeot 106 GTI, a Daihatsu Storia X4. Something, anything but this average German whip. Do you know how hard it was for me to actually speak anything about the Vectra? This car is so average I couldn't remember anything decent to say about it. I spoke more about the Lexus than the Vectra. And that's tragic.

For the Vectra, that is. And also because the Lexus is an actual fun car, instead of just being "comfort 24/7 motherf:censored:"...

Small price to pay for an education. You take the good, you take the bad, you take 'em both and there you have The Facts of Life.

Oh, but you should turn a single lap. You should see for yourself the error of your ways, picking a mundane Opel when you could've given us a Speedster Turbo. See for yourself how much of an average bore this car is. Come on, I dare you. :mischievous:

You're not my real father, you can't tell me what to do!

Eh, the Aztek is a worst package. This, on the other hand, is just duller than a can of ASDA beans. And no one likes the blandness of a can of ASDA beans. At least the Aztek has the distinctive feature of being cringe-inducing when you stare at it. When you stare at a Vectra, you can't feel anything. It's like staring at a robot puppy; you know it's a puppy, but it ain't cute. It's just a robot without any sort of emotions.

They both (the Vectra and Aztek) mean that you've completely given up on life.

Can't blame the kid, he was just speaking the truth. He actually told me your voice sounded like the voice of someone who wanted to piledrive himself through a table. "Sauber doing bad means that Brad won't spare you from darkness", Joey said. And I should've listened to him, but I just had to see for myself...

Tried snapping into a Slim Jim, ended up snapping right through a Slim Jim. My voice is the undisputed Intercontinental champion, Oh Yeah! I assume you missed the GT Podcast I did with @LVracerGT and @MOTORTRENDmitch a few years ago. Surely it's still on this site somewhere. I'd say don't believe the hype, but that'd be lying. It ain't pretty.

Again, at least the Aztek has something to speak for itself. What can this Astra say?

"Oh, my far better (and younger) Astra Coupe cousin was a DTM star, and here I am, just being unable to challenge a Ford Mondeo..."

And well, the C5 just felt smoother to drive. What was I supposed to say. Sure, the C5 was slow as a Escargot, but at least it felt confortable in its shoes. The Vectra just felt like it was trying too hard, like it wanted to show off while knowing that it would never even get close to the IS200's exhaust tip. BMW and Merc are at least competent in their job. You still see 3-series, C-classes being sold brand new. Vectras? Haha, that did so badly that the Insignia was better already, when it wasn't even a production car!

You should also know how I feel about French cars, and why it says so much about the Vectra. F 'em both!

No, not the Shogun! I deeply apologise, sensei. It won't happen again, please spare me! I did not want to insult the Principality of Harlem... :scared:

You owe him one apology and 20 kisses to his Converse. Is he the baddest? Sho'nuff!

And besides, I really want to know if I did a good job in my reviews, I like constructive criticism. And you can help too, even after this... ahem, "mistake" of yours.

I like how I get the blame for your inability to properly support my Formula 1 team. Perhaps you should add #MoreCowbell? Just for that, I hold you personally accountable for what happened to Marcus Ericsson last week. Thus, by logical extension, this terrible choice falls on your shoulders. Shame on you!

Perfect. Now, about that great car you promised us...

Sauber will need a few more points to even have a shot at finding out what car that would have been. I believe, based on the above, that you might have learned your lesson and will not repeat this mistake next weekend in China. Remember, Peter Sauber is watching you.

I don't care, just pretend that Maldonado had a major accident that wiped out half the field and gave both Saubers a points finish. Do it.

You'll likely find this handy...

And that last part? Couldn't have said it better myself.

Thank you. Your feedback is appreciated. One of our representatives will be with you shortly. Please hold...
 
I won't be able to join tomorrow's race, if there's going to be one. However, I reckon I'll still buy the car and try, try to make it decent with some tuning. Quite obviously, I will go overboard and give it 400+ horsepower, but quite frankly, in a car like this, I think 400 horsepower would make it at least a little fun. Riiight....?
 
I do believe that was the point. D:

If it was, then curse Mcclaren for giving us the rotten egg instead of the Kinder. Curse you, you blasted cowboy!

Bunch o'stuff including VGT reviews

Jesus, talk about understeer. What's with understeering sporty Opels? First the epic (as in epic understeer brah) Calibra 4x4, and then the OPC... Guess that's what happens when give a poor-handling car 280-plus hp and then tell him "alright, go for it. We couldn't work on the supension though, but just do your best."

God damm you, Opel. This is the reason why I care more about Audis and Mercedes!

Also, as for the VGTs; good points, although I think that the Lexus is a tad bit too nervous to be a proper GT3 car. The Alpine is very nice, both in design and handling, but I can't help but to think that it could be a little less stiff. I am not sure if I can get this point across, but here I go anyways;

The Lexus and the Alpine's handling should be traded between the two. The Alpine should be the more lively one, while the Lexus should feel more stiff as it is a racing car. It seems that someone at PD got lost in translation and mixed up the handling notes for each car. The Lexus needs to be more planted, while the Alpine should feel less understeer-y when you're trying to navigate a corner.

Yes, but you still haven't found all of the eggs. :)

I haven't, you are right. But god do I hope they aren't as rotten as the Vectra. This was a cheap-o egg that tastes like sewage waste, and that ain't fun...

Small price to pay for an education. You take the good, you take the bad, you take 'em both and there you have The Facts of Life.

Wise words, sire. I do suppose we have to experience the bad to understand the greatness of things. Facts of life indeed.

You're not my real father, you can't tell me what to do!

I may not be your father, but Stan Lee might be. You'd better give him some cofee, god only knows what will happen if you don't...

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(Just pretend that reads Brad, and you'll know Stan the man means business... :mischievous:)

They both (the Vectra and Aztek) mean that you've completely given up on life.

Well, at least the Aztek means people will remember how good Breaking Bad is. What can you remember if you see a Vectra?

"Tumbleweeds pass on by"

Tried snapping into a Slim Jim, ended up snapping right through a Slim Jim. My voice is the undisputed Intercontinental champion, Oh Yeah! I assume you missed the GT Podcast I did with @LVracerGT and @MOTORTRENDmitch a few years ago. Surely it's still on this site somewhere. I'd say don't believe the hype, but that'd be lying. It ain't pretty.

Christ, you sure took that to heart. I'm not sure if I want to watch that podcast, fearing that I might be opening Pandora's box... You don't dismiss an angry 'Murican, that much I know. :scared:

Also, could you say that you are indeed the "cream of the crop"?

You should also know how I feel about French cars, and why it says so much about the Vectra. F 'em both!

Hey, don't bash all French cars, at least they made great hot hatches. Does the name Peugeot 205 GTI rings a bell? Or Renault 5 GT Turbo? Citroen Visa GTI?

You owe him one apology and 20 kisses to his Converse. Is he the baddest? Sho'nuff!

Sho'nuff! My apologies, sir! (Bows down to Harlem Shogun and kisses his Converse)

I like how I get the blame for your inability to properly support my Formula 1 team. Perhaps you should add #MoreCowbell? Just for that, I hold you personally accountable for what happened to Marcus Ericsson last week. Thus, by logical extension, this terrible choice falls on your shoulders. Shame on you!

Hey, you can't pin the blame on me, I don't even watch F1 these days! Blame Bernie and local TV cable channels. My inability? Shouldn't you say your inability, dear Brad? Logical extension won't help you, for that basis of logic you should pin the blame on all of us. And I haven't seen you do that, now have I? :mischievous:

But I might add #MoreCowbell, since I do follow another racing team (#strakkaracing, son) it would be unfair to not support another underdog. So consider yourself lucky this time.

Sauber will need a few more points to even have a shot at finding out what car that would have been. I believe, based on the above, that you might have learned your lesson and will not repeat this mistake next weekend in China. Remember, Peter Sauber is watching you.

Ok, so Peter is watching me, huh? If I do get to watch the China round, I'll remember that. But only because that means that if all goes well, I might actually get to drive a good car this time. Go Sauber! :cheers:

You'll likely find this handy...

Why thank you, I like keeping an eye out for that sort of thing. Is there a Vladimir Kogay version of that page?

Thank you. Your feedback is appreciated. One of our representatives will be with you shortly. Please hold...

Foward the email/letter to Joey, if I can't answer it, he will. If he's not giving Stan Lee his coffee, that is. You should remember that Stan loves his coffee...

I won't be able to join tomorrow's race, if there's going to be one. However, I reckon I'll still buy the car and try, try to make it decent with some tuning. Quite obviously, I will go overboard and give it 400+ horsepower, but quite frankly, in a car like this, I think 400 horsepower would make it at least a little fun. Riiight....?

Giving a Vectra 400-plus hp? Unless you rework that suspension/LSD combo, I hope you love excessive understeer and lack of rotation... Because that will happen if you give this Vectra more than 207 hp. And it won't be pretty. :scared:
 
Suspension and tuning the LSD will most definitely be first priority, that much should be clear. If this car had been FR, it would have been all fine and dandy. As it turns out, front-wheel-drive on a front heavy sedan car with a large V6 engine, may not have been the best idea.
 
This is how you choose between Opel or Vauxhall....



*Doesn't includes the un aired racist version


Yes, except it's good picking between two GT86s. Picking between an Opel and a Vauxhall Vectra is the equivalent of picking between an American-made nuclear bomb and a shed-made one. You are pretty much picking which of the two will destroy your life...
 
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I've missed the past few weeks, but will be joining in tonight. I bought one a few weeks ago for some PP racing, even applying extreme settings to attempt to kill the understeer and drabness of the car couldn't stop it from being terribad and getting left in the dust by other awful cars. I sold it the same day I bought it, it's about as lively as a post-race interview with Kimi Raikkonen.

Getting a lap time of 1:32 in a stock Opel Vectra at Mid-Field is easy. Getting 1:31 is not so easy (using a DS3 anyway...)

I took it for a quick spin to get used to the understeer we'll be dealing with tonight, managed to get a 1:29.505 with a DS3. There was nothing fun about it though, the car is pathetic in every concievable way.


IMAG0772_zpsarbe7ky4.jpg
 
I won't be able to join tomorrow's race, if there's going to be one. However, I reckon I'll still buy the car and try, try to make it decent with some tuning. Quite obviously, I will go overboard and give it 400+ horsepower, but quite frankly, in a car like this, I think 400 horsepower would make it at least a little fun. Riiight....?

Let me know if there's a time you can race throughout the week, @BAP_Shockz . I'll do what I can to get you a chance to stretch it's Tiny-Tim decrepit legs.

I've missed the past few weeks, but will be joining in tonight. I bought one a few weeks ago for some PP racing, even applying extreme settings to attempt to kill the understeer and drabness of the car couldn't stop it from being terribad and getting left in the dust by other awful cars. I sold it the same day I bought it, it's about as lively as a post-race interview with Kimi Raikkonen.

Yes, but at least with Kimi there's a good chance that you'll get something worth remembering. This thing, however, is like a pair of Barbara Bush's underwear: smelly, ugly, and I really don't want to be here.

Yes, except it's good picking between two GT86s. Picking between an Opel and a Vauxhall Vectra is the equivalent of picking between an American-made nuclear bomb and a shed-made one. You are pretty much picking which of the two will destroy your life...

No, it's worse than that. A bomb offers an explosion, a sense of awe and simultaneous destruction.

Choosing between these two is like picking which McDonald's you'd like to eat at for every day of your life, and the same meal at that.

If it was, then curse Mcclaren for giving us the rotten egg instead of the Kinder. Curse you, you blasted cowboy!

The responsible party has already been named by the Committee of Me, as noted in a previous post. @Niku Driver HC is currently under investigation by the stewards for failure to ensure points, which if found guilty, may result in a grid penalty and time spent standing in the corner. As for the cowboy reference, I'd watch my mouth if I were you.

There ain't room on this board for the both of us... At least my hat has an honest F1 touch, given to the teams at Monza last year by Mario Andretti.

I haven't, you are right. But god do I hope they aren't as rotten as the Vectra. This was a cheap-o egg that tastes like sewage waste, and that ain't fun...

Fear not, I took the liberty of using cheap plastic eggs. Oddly enough, more colorful than this pile.

Wise words, sire. I do suppose we have to experience the bad to understand the greatness of things. Facts of life indeed.

You'll thank me when you get older. And it'll put hair on your chest (my uncle would say that in an attempt to make trying something more appealing... yeah, chest hair is appealing?).

I may not be your father, but Stan Lee might be. You'd better give him some cofee, god only knows what will happen if you don't...

hqdefault.jpg


(Just pretend that reads Brad, and you'll know Stan the man means business... :mischievous:)

Okay, this wins a No Prize. Nuff said.

Christ, you sure took that to heart. I'm not sure if I want to watch that podcast, fearing that I might be opening Pandora's box... You don't dismiss an angry 'Murican, that much I know. :scared:

According to many experts, the problem with me is that I didn't take christ into my heart. That's because it was too busy thinking for itself and not relying on texts compiled by crusty, old, dead white guys. I'll attempt to correct that... oh f' it, why pretend?

I REGRET NOTHING!

Also, could you say that you are indeed the "cream of the crop"?

No. When I say it, it sounds like I'm auditioning for a dirty porn. When others say it, it's fine. This is also why I cannot list "White Mocha Guy" as a title... it sounds a bit racist. But when my baristas call me that, it's a sign of affection, and thus the cosmos achieves balance.

Unlike this piece of junk, which should be balanced into the nearest, deepest body of water as quickly as possible.

By the way, has anyone else noticed how much it resembles the Dodge Not-Much-of-an-Avenger?

sddefault.jpg

Proof that you can steal designs, so long as they're ugly as sin. Expect a Camaro variant shortly, as that's an abortion on wheels.
 
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I took it for a quick spin to get used to the understeer we'll be dealing with tonight, managed to get a 1:29.505 with a DS3. There was nothing fun about it though, the car is pathetic in every concievable way.


IMAG0772_zpsarbe7ky4.jpg

I'm not bitter, but I can't imagine how you beat me by 2.5 seconds when neither of us have a wheel. I could swear my lap was nearly flawless. I'll believe 1:30 maybe but no way 1:29

Did you happen to save the lap? I'd like to see it if possible.

/goes to cry in a corner and vows to stop hot-lapping Midfield :(
 
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