Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by McClarenDesign, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. JackRyanWMU

    JackRyanWMU

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    Oh my, another gussied up front-drive Japanese Luxury car to test this week? I'm almost hoping to get another French car to drive at this rate. :p
     
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  2. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Now, don't give people the wrong ideas, or else we end up driving a Peugeot 307 CC or something... :dopey:

    Oh, one more thing, @Vic Reign93, did you take a look into my notebook? The cars you picked are almost the same as my choice! :crazy: I need to get better passwords for this PC... :lol:
     
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  3. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    *pokes head out of suspiciously familiar notebook*

    I have no idea what you mean.:lol:

    I just asked myself, what is the least used car online? Had to be an Acura CL. :p
     
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  4. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    I actually used it quite a bit online in GT5, (tuned) it was the most powerful FF car if I remember right, could do about 230mph? Got one in GT6 but haven't used it yet, nor seen anyone use it.
     
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  5. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    It was a powerful FF in full trim but the most powerful FF Honer goes to the SRT 4 at over 600+ horses. :eek: Not as powerful on GT6 but the nos makes up for it. :tup:
     
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  6. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Yeah, it seems that Dodge can haul quite the rubber... :scared: 600 hp with a FF layout is the stuff of nightmares. As for the Acura, though, I'd rather spend my money on suspension parts, because the one race I did with it so far did not go so well... (it was the Fighting Muscle race at Brands, in case you're curious) It seems balanced, but it understeers a bit too much, even on sports tires, I have to tone down the amount of accel on corners in order to avoid off-road excursions.

    The Honda, on the other hand, has actually won the race I done with it (500 PP championship, on Mount Panorama) without any modfications at all. I barely managed to beat a Lotus Espirit V8 to win. By how much?

    0.015 seconds.

    So far, the sleeper badge is heading towards the Honda court, the Acura is not as edgy as the Accord (you could say it's not accurate, the Acura. The humor! :dopey:)
     
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  7. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Well a dirt cheap tactic I use to kill some of the understeer in FF is use harder compounds out back and softer ones out front. SS and SH's works for me but it all depends on driving style really. :)

    Guess I'm not the only punch line piper round here. :lol:
     
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  8. Bakemono36

    Bakemono36

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    Id have to take the Accord over the CL. I find that the CL has some pretty wicked understeer, especially under power and just doesnt have the pickup that the Accord does. I actually much prefer the RSX to the CL.
     
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  9. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Hum, never really paid much attention to that tactic, guess it could be useful on race conditions if I gave it a shot. :idea:

    Well, you stole my choice of car, so I guess its only fair to steal your jokes. :lol: You know what they say about payback... :dopey:

    Yeah, more or less my gripes with the Acura right there, the chassis doesn't have the feel most FF Hondas have (Type R, pretty much all you need to know), pity that, the engine isn't half bad. But the Accord's V6, as you said, pulls its weight around so much better, and while the suspension might not the best around, it handles decently enough to fight higher tier-type cars. These cars are solid all-rounders, but just like the Primera, they don't bring anything new and\or exciting. That's the response I think most people of this thread will think of...
     
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  10. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    That it's a dish best served cold? :sly:
     
  11. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Well, I was refering the other version (the one with that word that starts with a B and ends with a H that I can't say here, or else I'd get banned), but that one works. :lol:
     
  12. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    I knew you were, ;) the way you phrased it allowed me to roll about it differently. :p
     
  13. iainn

    iainn Premium

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    UNDERSTEER AHOY!

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    An American Honda Accord then, powerful enough, but doesn't look nice or drive that well.
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    I tried a coat of paint and some Enkei wheels to get a more Max Powahhh look, which was somewhat successful, but still not great.

    It reminds me of the Peugeot Coupe really.

    [​IMG]
    Actually looks like Cmdr Ed Straker's car from
    UFO here.

    Next up I went to Mt Panorama (again) for a 500PP Clubman race, and suffered some understeery moments again, but once I learned to brake and turn in a bit earlier it wasn't too bad.

    [​IMG]

    AI always slow here

    [​IMG]

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    And across the line.... Victory prize spent on paint touch up though.

    A good choice for COTW as it won't be that well known, but definitely not my favourite.

    Cheers
     
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  14. S30Zenzow

    S30Zenzow

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    The Acura CL/Honda Accord '03. Both cars for businessmen who want to look cooler for other people in order to disguise the boring lifestyle they appear to have. To me, that summed up both cars before they were selected to be Car of The Week, but now? Now the way I look at them has changed.

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    Starting with the CL, it looks like it came out straight from the 90's, with it's more angular shape, boxy headlights and overall more sober design. Seems pretty boring to me, but you can't judge a car for it's appearance, so I changed it's wheels and took it to my test track, Matterhorn Rotenboden.

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    Stock, it felt like the Primera, last week's COTW, meaning it was slow, suffered on the uphill and didn't take the downhill really well, and also had a terrible understeer, probably caused by the comfort soft tires.

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    After some laps, I decided to tune it a bit. Reduced all the weight I could, added a lot of power and tuned the LSD and suspension. After all that, it was time to hit the track again.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see from the picture above, it was too much power for the car. It understeered on every corner exit, and in order not to burn all the rubber from the front tires, you had to apply throttle very smoothly and progressively. After a couple of laps I decided it had too much power and took some engine mods out of it, just to make it more driveable.

    Now, let's move on to the Accord.

    The Accord is, in my opinion, a much better car than the CL. Better looking, lighter, quicker and more agile (the 2 pp difference between the CL and the Accord seems insignificant, but on track, it is really noticeable). The fact it has a 6 speed transmission makes the acceleration much better, as there isn't a big gap between the gears, making it much more fun to drive. To test it, I took it to SSR5.

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    (Sorry about the pink wheels, my wife's been using the car) On the track, it feels really good stock. The understeer is much less noticeable than in the CL, the suspension setup is more lively and the drivetrain makes it very agile and more fun to drive than the Acura.

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    I haven't done anything to it because I really like the way it drives, it really doesn't need any tuning, it's perfect the way it is.

    [​IMG]

    So, after all this, what do I think about these cars?

    I'd call the Acura a beater, as it is pretty slow, understeers a lot and can't handle power really well, but, even though it seems a terrible car, I quite like it the way it is. It's different, it has a certain personality that other cars don't have. It's not like I'm going to drive it regularly from now on, but it will have his personal space in my garage.

    [​IMG]

    Now, the Honda is definitely a sleeper. Under the discreet but appealing body, it has a fantastic drivetrain and a phenomenal suspension setup that make it a really fun car to drive on the limit. It has little understeer and the acceleration is pretty good for a car that will probably never see a race track. I remember having driven an Accord in a shuffle race back in GT5 and was impressed by its attributes, as it took me to an easy victory around a track that I didn't know really well. Anyways, the Accord is a car that I pretend to drive more regularly from now on.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
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  15. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Here's the car I'll be running at the Beater or Sleeper shootout, The Acura CL Type R ;)

    Apricot Hill Raceway.jpg
    First order of business was a reworked tyre and suspension set-up to reduce understeer. HP is just under the (now no longer) Japanese HP limit of 276. Further inspired by the Type R cars, its finished in Championship White and Trumpet Gold. This car has the potential to make you say 'C you Later' :sly: to all who chase you.:lol:
     
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  16. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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  17. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    1990 Nissan Primera 2.8Te

    OK, so I am late. Between the two major storms, 15 inches of snow and the flu I haven't gotten much done this past week other than shovel snow and try to sleep!
    By the numbers:
    stock - 148hp/368pp
    tune - 195hp/402pp

    Gemasolar.jpg
    Appropriate stance...from out of the shadows.

    Move along, nothing to see here, or so you would think. She's no prom queen, but not coyote ugly either, pretty much just a plain Jane sedan of her time. I was pleasantly surprised once I began driving her, although as others have mentioned, that looong stretch between 3rd and 4th gear just won't do at all. I think with a better gearbox, SH rubber and a little stiffening of the suspension she would probably give any car near her pp value a good run. Pretty much the very definition of a "sleeper"...to a point. She does start to develop a push once given more power than she can handle. Exactly what point is hard to tell, I didn't have much time this week, but I noticed it at Goodwood with 402pp, but I had not tuned the suspension at all. I don't suppose you could go much beyond 450pp on a tight, twisty track.


    Goodwood Hillclimb.jpg
    Rethinking that suspension tune thingy at Goodwood.

    I chose the National-A Nightmasters series for a race this week, the 3 lap event at Willow Springs.
    stock: P2 - total / 5:07.750 - best / 1:41.287
    tuned: P1 - total / 4:50.868 - best / 1:35.768
    Goodwood TT, best of 5 runs
    stock: 1:04.598
    tuned: 0:59.294

    Overall, a very fun car to drive and a perfect choice for cotw, something I probably never would have gotten around to driving otherwise :tup: My verdict, a sleeper for sure.
     
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  18. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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  19. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Fear and Loathing in an Accord/CL...

    And not the good kind as depicted by H.S.T.. I've had the opportunity to test both of these cars fairly extensively over the past week and as recently as yesterday. Even though love was supposed to be in the air as people celebrated having a good VD, these cars brought out the hatred in me.

    Having played the GT series from it's inception, I've enjoyed thousands of rides and disliked a small percentage of the offerings in Gran Turismo. However these two have taken the proverbial cake, thrown it on the floor repeatedly and then served. I have never been so afraid to throw a car into a turn, as these 2 give understeer a brand new definition. I admit to underestimating these cars lack of ability to turn cleanly, but YIPES!!! Having to apologize to people as I slid right into them in basic turns is just not cool, and shattered my belief that I was a pretty clean driver. Back to the drawing board I go.

    As I have previously stated, the Acura's claim to take on the German cars sent me into shock, and if I ever hear that claim again, that person will be told they are so full of **** they should be brushing their teeth with toilet paper. In my head, these are beyond being called Beaters. Not even drug induced trips of delusion can make these cars enjoyable and should be avoided like the plague.

    I will always take the time to try out different cars, and thanks to the COTW, I have the opportunity to do just that. However, I will run away screaming like a little girl if asked to relive the nightmare of driving these cars again... ;)

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
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  20. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Tested both at Suzuka Circuit, bone stock with Sport Hard tires equipped. Here's what I got:

    2:29.688 - 2003 Honda Accord Coupe EX - 3.0L, 239 hp @ 6000 rpm, 212 ft-lbs @ 5000 rpm, 1481 kg, 421 pp.
    2:32.103 - 2003 Acura CL 3.2 Type-S - 3.2L, 262 hp @ 6000 rpm, 234 ft-lbs @ 3500 rpm, 1563 kg, 419 pp.

    I'm going to go at it a bit harder later on. I can certainly get a 2:31 time with the Acura, and maybe a 2:28 with the Honda.

    The CL is a pig. With a time under 2:30, the Accord with 6MT is a bargain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
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  21. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    2003 ACURA CL-S

    1City of Arts and Sciences - Night.jpg
    Design theme: blend in with your surroundings.

    Although not as boxy as last weeks car, one can see that the 90's and 00's weren't exactly high points in automotive design. No wonder white is one of the most popular colors for cars these days, vanilla is white! On with the review, by the numbers:
    stock: 262hp/419pp
    tuned: 345hp/456pp

    At the Goodwood TT the Acura just missed, by half a second, knocking off week ones RCZ from the bottom of the list, the top of the list still dominated by the Buick.
    stock: 1:00.533
    tuned: 0:58.931

    I chose the IB, 10:00 minute race at Brands Hatch to test her performance at the track. I knew I was in trouble the first go round when the entry list showed a Boss 302 Mustang, S type-R Jag and a ZR-1 Vette. Fortunately for our stock Acura, after about a third of the race the ai predictably slowed. The entire mid pack (4th - 10th) slowed and lined up for me to pick off one by one :indiff: Checking the times after the race, the front three had cut a full 5+ seconds off their lap times for about half the race allowing me to finish a respectful, if not embarrassing P2.

    The second race with the tuned Acura was a whole different story and as Rod "the bod" Stewart always sang "Every picture tells a story don't it" I took plenty of pics. The line up seemed a bit more stout, the Boss and ZR-1 were still there along with a Lotus, RS-6, Beemer M3 and a Vette GS who I got to know rather well during the race. This is a story I would call "Brands Hatch: where I had a lengthy "discussion" with a Corvette GS as to who was faster"

    Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit_1.jpg
    The "divebomb"

    I first met the GS when I dive-bombed him into a corner to make a pass. Okay, I am not a fan of the maneuver, but also not a fan of the ai slamming on their brakes entering a turn so you do what you gotta do...right? The Corvette is apparently not a big fan of the maneuver either
    Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit_2.jpg
    taking to the inside of the pushy Acura

    The GS having greater outright pace caught me going up the hill and slipped inside for the pass. Nothing wrong here, nice and clean.
    Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit_3.jpg
    That s.o.b cut me off!

    After completing the pass on the front stretch, setting up for turn one, he cuts right across my nose, I was surprised we didn't touch he was so close.

    Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit_4.jpg
    the nose job

    Since the Vette seemed fond of the Acuras nose, I decided to show him what it was good for. I stuck it inside leading into a turn about half a lap later and gave him a nudge with the chrome horn. This got him a bit loose and I drove on by.
    Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit_5.jpg
    the spin

    This boys and girls I why it is a bad idea to follow a Vette into a corner that fast and that low. I over shot the corner and predictably spun out directly in the path of the Corvette. The only problem, from my point of view, was that I didn't collect him and take him with me.
    Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit_6.jpg
    the pick

    It took me about two laps to catch back up and this time I decided to play nice and make my pass on the outside. Where, of course, the Corvette had deviously placed an RS-6 in my path to use as a pick as he and the M3 ran off up the hill. With more than half race race gone by the ai slows, bunches up and allows me by to chase down the rabbit...er...Lotus for the win. Well, it was fun while it lasted.
    Brands Hatch Grand Prix Circuit_8.jpg
    silly rabbit Lotus

    The results at Brands -
    stock: P2 best lap 1:54.747
    tuned: P1 best lap 1:51.832

    While bland in the styling department she does have her redeeming qualities: plenty of power in her class and seemed to pull nicely, one of the very few cars I did not change out the gearbox to take to the track, body roll was not excessive in any attitude, brakes were overkill at stock and more than able with the mild tune and for PD - the sound wasn't half bad. Add to this, she doesn't like Corvettes and as a Ford guy this is a plus in my book ;) Does she push...yes, but there are plenty of cars in this game that push much worse. The old soft/hard - front/rear tire compound swap trick helps. It was much more trouble on the tight turns at Goodwood than the fast sweepers at Brands, which bodes ill for the car where she lives...on the streets. Probably not a good idea to go out late night cruising in the city looking for trouble.
    Final verdict:
    half-a-sleeper...only half because of the push and I don't like vanilla :dopey:
     
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  22. CSMDuty11

    CSMDuty11

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    I've always wanted to do this, compare two cars and say, which is worse.
    [​IMG]
    With the Accord, Honda decided to go back in the past.
    Look! It's like it is from the year 2000, and i would have loved to be at the meeting where they decided to do this because, somebody must have stood up and said "Lets make it look like its from 3 years earlier!" and instead of throwing coffee mugs at him they went "2000s... Good idea..."
    [​IMG]

    With the CL, Acura decided to do the same thing, but not with the same car.
    Look! Its design is way different, and i would have loved to be at the meeting where they decided to do this because, somebody must have stood up and said "Lets forget about the Accord and do our own pastmobile!" and instead of saying "We're the american Honda! We have to do the same!" they went "Different... Good idea..."
    But this is Gran Turismo, 6 infact, and not real-life. So i decided to take both of them on a 550pp race on 2 laps of Tokyo R246. Without changing oil, or tuning. And since i spoke about the Accord first, i decided it would be natural that i started with it.
    [​IMG]
    The Accord overtook 1 opponent before the 2nd turn, and overtook 3 more before the last turn on the 1st lap, and kept the 2nd place on the 2nd lap, then i got a bit cocky and tried to use the leading CPU as a pillow, the plan was a failure.
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    Permission to say "Cock" on race 1.
    But despite the mess-up, with the help of my car's butt, i managed to achieve a close win.
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    We actually won this! Im actually proud of you, Honda Accord!
    But that was more than what could be said about the CL.
    [​IMG]

    The CL overtook 2 opponents before the first turn, and overtook 1 more before the last turn on the 1st lap, then i got a bit cocky halfway through the 2nd lap, and decided to do turns without braking, on the 3rd one after that i crashed into a wall, but if there was anyone more cocky, it was the better-looking FT-86.
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    I feel like the person behind me is mad, REALLY MAD!
    But despite the crash, and the time i tackled the FT's side, i managed to achieve a close loss
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    We actually lost this! You are worthless, Acura CL!
    And i even had sports hard tires on it! And the Accord had the tires it came with when i bought it!
    So here we are, if i had to choose one, which one would i pick?
    Isn't it obvious?
    The Mini Cooper 1.3!
    [​IMG]
    Other than it being standard, it is the polar opposite of those two. Those were big, it is small, Those could have a rear wing, this can't, Those had understeer. But this has so much steering, that in some cases it could flip! A good cure for all the understeering these two pieces of junk had.
    ...Alright, which one would i choose, if i had to choose one of those two?
    Isn't it obvious?
    The Honda Accord!
    [​IMG]
    Unlike the CL, this one managed to win the race, and when i drove a few laps around SSR5 with both of these cars, and the Accord had a better time, when it drove with its stock tires, even when the CL had sports hard on it
    Now excuse me while i put the Acura into the stockyard, and wait till someone smashes it with a bat so hard it will be beyond repairs! And remember, if a person offered you to choose beteven these two, you say "Screw you! Im gonna buy a old Mini Cooper!"
    So the verdict: Honda: Sleeper, Acura: Beater
     
  23. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    -McClarenDesign's-
    Super Best Friends Super Aguri Super Review of the Car of the Week
    "It is the head and not the foot that is instrumental in any one driver's achievement." -Peter Sauber

    Week 7: 2003 Acura CL 3.2 Type-S / Honda Accord Coupe EX

    Mistakes happen. From an early age, we're taught that things aren't always going to go as planned. Milk gets spilled, homework gets forgotten, alarm clocks don't get set, toast gets burned and American Idol is still on the air. Along with this lesson comes with how to respond to those mistakes. If you're an individual with any sort decency or character, you own up to the mistakes and acknowledge responsibility. It's called integrity, and if you intend on having any amount of peace and harmony in your life, it's a survival trait.

    When you're on the receiving end of an error, an apology is rightfully expected. Not having that expectation allows one to be trounced upon, and it also enables the injustice to continue onto the next man. If you don't hold others accountable, then mistakes become rampant and irreparable. A prime example of this would be Eric Snowden. Regardless of how you feel about his decision or the way it was carried out, he was the only American brave enough to not only speak out about an injustice, he also brought along enough evidence to convince foreign leaders and earn political asylum. By speaking up, he also gave America the precise length of rope required to hang itself when it botched the response, losing the minute amount of credibility they had left.

    [​IMG]

    Integrity is the ability to admit when you've made a mistake, apologize for it, and work to correct it. While the concept sounds wonderful, the way in which we as a society demand it isn't the same as who we expect it of. When an order is wrong at a restaurant, there's absolutely no hesitation in sending it back, yet politicians are allowed to accept gifts and bribes with nothing more than a wink and a handshake. Soda machines get punched for excess coins swallowed, yet that same person will happily sign a multiple-decade mortgage that will eventually bankrupt them. Today it's quite rare for someone to stand up and say "wait a minute... this just isn't right!"

    It's the same in automotive journalism. People depend on us to deliver factual information and opinions, experiences and sensations they haven't yet got. There's an expectation of credibility, a trust that's freely given, in the hopes that maybe the reader will gain some insight and wisdom when faced with an automotive question. Your chances of driving a 1957 BMW 507 might be slim, but if you do ever get that chance, having read the article from Week 4 might help give you a realistic expectation. Yet when you open that latest issue of Automotive Trend & Track and see countless ads for the same manufacturers, you consequently also lend those same manufacturers the same credibility, and any thought of accountability flies right out the window. Doyle Brunson once quipped "If you can't spot the sucker at the table in the first five minutes, the sucker is you", and you only prove his point exponentially by renewing your subscription.

    [​IMG]

    According to Polyphony Digital (via Translator-san):
    For this week, we've been handed two badges from one company, and asked to compare and contrast the them. Both badges conjure up demographic focus group buzzwords like "quality", "luxury" and "dependable". For most, the moment anyone says the word Honda in any given room, someone else will smile, completely convinced that "you meet the nicest people on a Honda". Ever since the oil crisis of the '70s, Honda has managed to cultivate a well-earned reputation for creating machinery that does exactly what it was designed to do, time and time again without failure. On the freak occurrence of a failure, they've been known to go out of their way to set things right.

    Unlike every other company since the dawn of time, Honda has never shied away from failure. When a young Soichiro Honda finished with his university studies, the first thing he did was to purchase the equipment needed to manufacture failure repeatedly. Having left his university studies with only one course passed, his failure wasn't for lack of preparation, it was of divine epiphany. While the rest of his classmates toiled away reciting useless bits of information, Soichiro was mastering the craft of forging piston rings, each failure embraced and nurtured as if it were a child. So despite their reputation for quality and reliability, Honda was built on the bedrock of failure.

    [​IMG]

    Performance (as purchased): February 9, 2014, San Marino Red (Red) *'03 Honda Accord EX
    Displacement: 2,997 cc
    Max. Power: 239 HP @ 6,000 rpm
    Max. Torque: 211.9 ft-lb @ 5,000 rpm
    Drivetrain: FF
    Length: 187.6 in., Height: 55.7 in., Width: 71.3 in., Weight: 1,481 kg
    Tires: Comfort (Soft)
    Performance Points: 421
    Mileage: 46.7 mi

    With each failure came insight into the cause, and with that, an insight into preventing it. By sampling the various forms of failure in all of their glory, Honda was able to produce piston rings that were strong enough to meet and eventually exceed Toyota's expectations. Masters of trades dedicate their entire lives learning how to do one thing right, but by learning how to do everything wrong Soichiro became an artist and a true craftsman. Before Toyota, the rings that were made weren't sold, so any mistakes required no apologies. Once under contract, however, those mistakes became top priority. Although Soichiro was never accused of being bashful or timid, his integrity and willingness to accept and correct failure is what gave him credibility amongst the influential zaibatsu Mitsubishi, which eventually financed nearly everything Honda is today.

    Despite economic hardships of the past, Honda is almost printing currency these days, and part of that formula for success includes the Accord. With the help of The Fast and Furious and a wealth of aftermarket accessories, previous generations of Accords can provide countless examples of poor taste when modified, yet are completely stealth when left alone. Why send an airplane with bombs into a war-torn nation when you can drive in complete obscurity and in plain sight? Despite their camouflage nature, properly spec'd Accords can deliver a fun drive that challenges their rear-wheel drive counterparts. Because they're relatively inexpensive, you can find them slightly used with no problem at all, much like ordering a pizza.


    I was absolutely thrilled at the prospect of testing the '03 Accord Coupe EX, especially since it was the sportier version available at the time. Having previously invested in Honda's failed attempt at Formula 1, I was ecstatic when I learned that our car contained a V-TEC engine, which I assumed would provide a little bit more "oomph" when reaching the top end of the rev counter as in past models. But when I sat in the driver's seat and noticed the manual transmission sitting next to me, it was as if a choir of angels had delivered the messiah before me... to abuse.

    Then someone said "go". To be honest, I don't remember who or what, and I didn't really care. There were a bunch of other things I didn't care about as well, such as everything in the interior. Nothing felt out of place, fragile or unintelligible, which is the nicest thing I could ask for in an interior. Honda engineers spend countless hours studying the way people drive so that they could design the seats accordingly. I didn't care. Multiple people clocked-in and out day and night to slave over the cup holder design. I didn't care about that either. Rear seating? Probably there. Glove box? Who knows, I couldn't be bothered. The only two things I was concerned about during the lap was the finish line to cross, and the 2:06.715 displayed on the stopwatch at the end.

    [​IMG]

    When we reviewed the Primera, we mentioned the formation of Infiniti as a direct result of the Plaza Accord (as opposed to the previously tested Honda Accord). The first to take advantage of the new agreement was Honda, having previously invested an entire decade into researching the concept. If Infiniti was likened to BMW, it could be argued that Acura was Honda's answer to Mercedes-Benz. Although new the the American luxury auto market, Honda was familiar with Americans since introducing its motorcycles decades prior on the west coast. Likewise, having proven their integrity with those same motorcycles, and later with cars during the oil crisis, Americans welcomed Acura with open arms and purchased over 109,000 Acura cars in their first full year of sales.

    To put that into perspective, BMW only sold 64,000, and Mercedes-Benz 78,000 that same year. Outselling established brands in the first year flipped the industry upside down, forcing Nissan and Toyota to proceed with their own luxury brands while Mazda opted out of its Amati concept. Even well-established domestic makers Buick and Lincoln took notice, watching potential customers of each drifting across the street to one of the 60 new dealerships across the US. As Honda had changed the public's perception of motorcyclists, they now offered Honda quality with European luxury, and most importantly, affordability. To quote one of their earliest commercials, "this may be the best result we've ever had".

    [​IMG]

    According to Polyphony Digital (via Translator-san):
    Even though a fortune was spent on research and marketing, Acura wasn't just the first Japanese luxury maker in America, they were the first Japanese luxury maker, period. Okay, so technically that isn't entirely true. Although owned and operated by Honda, all CLs and Accords for sale in the US were built at the Marysville, OH plant. Besides providing cost savings by having raw materials close by and not having to pay export tariffs, Acura could also avoid the Japanese connection on that same technicality, should the nationality come into question. "Japanese? No sir, that's made in Ohio. By Americans. Big, fat, robust Americans that are winners. You want to be a winner, don't you, sir?"

    Perhaps it's around this point that the deception of Acura begins, or at least the perceived deception. In 1999 the CL's sister, the TL, was redesigned completely. In March of 2000, only three months into the new year, Acura unveiled the new CL and dubbed it a 2001 model, completely forgetting the remaining months on the calendar. Theoretically you could purchase a new model and experience nine more months of depreciation before the ball officially dropped for 2001. It was also in 2001 that Acura introduced the RSX, which was nothing more than a mislabeled Integra, before being dropped five years later because the luxury mark didn't want to be associated with the teenage hooligans snatching them up.

    [​IMG]

    Performance (as purchased): February 9, 2014, Tafetta White (Guess.) *'03 Acura CL 3.2 Type-S
    Displacement: 3,210 cc
    Max. Power: 262 HP @ 6,000 rpm
    Max. Torque: 234.4 ft-lb @ 3,500 rpm
    Drivetrain: FF
    Length: 191.9 in., Height: 53.3 in., Width: 70.6 in., Weight: 1,563 kg
    Tires: Comfort (Soft)
    Performance Points: 419
    Mileage: 94.3 mi

    Despite being nearly identical to the Accord, there are noticeable differences between the two that are important. While the Accord EX received the J30A4 engine, factory rated at 239 HP, the upscale CL got the J32A2 engine making 262 HP, despite adding only 213 cc. With the added luxury trim and interior, the Acura is 82 lbs heavier. The Accord that has the better power-to-weight ratio, coming in at 6.20 HP-per-kg vs the CL's 5.97 HP-per-kg. Although it's 4.3 inches longer, it's 0.7 inches thinner and 2.4 inches lower than the Accord.

    Despite having different engines, both have Honda's patented V-TEC technology, and both are SOHC. The J32A2 was based on the NSX's C32B, though it lacked the proper layout (the C32B being mid-engined, rear-wheel drive) and exotic materials used in the supercar, to save on production costs. While that might not mean much to the average luxury buyer, it means everything to Honda enthusiasts, of which there are many. The uneducated of which will swear that the V-TEC produces more power in the higher rev range compared to traditional SOHC or DOHC (Single or Dual Overhead Cam) engines, but that isn't entirely correct. Instead, the timing is optimized for either high or low rpm use, creating more efficient power but not exactly a higher number. While this can save you trips to the pump, explaining it requires a PhD and a few hours of nothing better to do. Mention the CCVC and no one speaks because they don't have a clue. But when I say "V-TEC", well then everyone loses their minds!


    Another highly praised feature of the CL Type-S was its new helical limited-slip differential, which transfers power between the two front wheels to prevent wheelspin. By all accounts, this tricky diff should help the front-wheel drive Acura handle more like a rear-wheel drive, but no amount of differential black magic is going to prevent the front tires from being handed the Herculean task of acceleration, deceleration and lateral grip typically distributed evenly in other layouts. With a front mounted engine and rear-wheel drive, acceleration is applied when the rear tyres reach the apex of a turn, allowing the car to understeer out in a safe manner while utilizing all of the available horsepower. In a mid-engined rear-wheel drive, the distribution of weight between the front and rear wheels allows for faster yaw adjustment, much like using the rudder on a boat or airplane. Again, this helps the driver understeer out of the turn in a safe manner, while providing extra time for input correction should something go wrong before the entry of the turn.

    Front-wheel drive, however, is another beast entirely. Imagine your dog dragging his arse across your lawn, and you'll have an accurate representation of the concept. While the aforementioned layouts split the acceleration/deceleration and turning between the front and rear tyres, or in the case of the Oullim Spirra, between all four tyres independently, the front-wheel drive is tasked with both. Go into a turn to fast and you simply won't, instead plowing into whatever is directly ahead as though you've never turned the wheel. Despite the Accord and CL Type-S having the same handicap of the same layout, and despite the CL winning virtually every statistic on paper, the difference was night and day. On the Tokyo streets, any power advantage had to be immediately be scrubbed off before going into the next turn. Despite having the better power-to-weight ratio and being thinner, it felt fatter and lazier, as evidenced by the 2:08.804 on the telltale stopwatch.

    [​IMG]

    If Mercedes-Benz was the target for Acura upon its introduction, they certainly nailed it with the CL Type-S. Although I was just as comfortable in the Accord, the Type-S has been praised all over for its level of comfort, ergonomics and finish compared to the much-more-expensive Germans. From a purely performance perspective however, it's the turn-in... or lack of, that cements the comparison. However unlike the Acura, with the Benz you can apply more power, freeing the back end from the constraints of physics and place the car where it should've been to begin with. Conversely, I've compared the turn-in of the rival BMW to a terrier diagnosed with ADHD... on cocaine. Just as the dog would flinch and instinctively react, so will the BMW the moment it thinks that you're going to throw a stick or ball.

    Then there's Audi, which actively tries to be so different than the other two that it can't decide what it actually does want to be. While neither Lexus, Infiniti or Acura offer sedans or coupes with all-wheel drive Quattro, Japan doesn't exactly need to because that niche is filled by Subaru. Although they might not be considered as luxurious as the Audis, Subaru has never lost touch with who they are or how their cars should feel. Even though the BRZ is RWD and not AWD, it still has that "STi-me" Subaru-ishness that endears it to enthusiasts. What it may lack in luxury, it makes up for in what it says about you as an owner; fun, energetic, adventurous and nigh invincible on ice. But if you're ever seen behind the wheel of an Audi, the only thing onlookers will think of you is one word: cock. Are you really going to spend $40,000 on that kind of image amongst complete strangers?


    Look, I tried, okay? I wanted to believe again. I wanted to experience the same fun I had the first time I rode in a third generation Accord, darting around and about as if connected on rails like a roller coaster. I wanted to believe that because there was a manual transmission, someone actually cared about what enthusiasts thought. I tried desperately to find the extra time on the track that all those statistical numbers said was available but wasn't. I was even willing to accept the blame for this whole failure and own up to being a pathetic driver, but when our cameraman nearly drove into a barrier on his third attempt, I realized that the only think keeping me from beating that extra time was the car itself.

    Apparently, I'm not alone in that regard. 2003 was the final year of the CL, and many owners experienced reliability issues. In 2006 Honda settled a class action lawsuit over their automatic transmissions, despite issuing a recall two years prior. As a result, warranty coverage was extended, however many more owners experienced problems well after that extension had expired. Over half of the transmission failures occurred on vehicles with less than 90,000 miles, and one fifth of the transmissions had problems before 70,000 miles. If this was meant to endear Americans to a Japanese luxury product, it isn't working, as Americans can already get that same quality from any other domestic maker.

    [​IMG]

    I really would like to tell you that things get better from here. Having once had a vested (technically) interest, I also wanted to see Jensen Button win in his Honda. Instead, I'm left to report that Jensen's championship year was the year after Honda quit, and the team became Brawn GP (now Mercedes AMG Petronas). While I understand that every automotive manufacturer is going to produce the occasional lemon, what I don't understand is why I'm expected to pay for it. Previous owners with transmission problems didn't get replacement parts and labor free of charge, it was split with the factory, much in the same manner that a drug dealer expects you to share what you've just purchased. (Editor: What?!?)

    At least there's hope for the future. The 2012 Honda Civic was released and for the first time ever, failed miserably. Instead of being the typical darling of the automotive world as in years past, it was panned by both buyers and the media. In 2011, Wall Street Journal writer Dan Neil said "Still, they do not burn with Honda's once-routine over-achievement, and the ire the company faces reflects the high expectations and great trust consumers have placed with the brand. In other words, merely decent feels like a betrayal from Honda." That's fairly accurate, and a little over a year later, their CEO admitted that there was a problem, and that Honda was working to fix it. Having lasted for nearly 73 years, Honda's credibility is now in doubt.

    Do they embrace this failure, as Soichiro did with his rings, and learn from it in order to become artists? Can Acura survive as a result, and will the new NSX be the renaissance of performance for the brand? Will they ever actually get Acura in Japan, and will it work? If they're going to stand a chance, they'll have to win over those they've spurned before, and they'll need to do it utilizing the power of dreams, the same thing that drew us all to them to begin with.

    In the meantime, I believe I'm owed an apology for being subjected to this unnecessary foolishness.

    *The views and opinions expressed in this review do not necessarily reflect those of the manufacturer, the publisher, GTPlanet.net or it's members, nor anyone with an IQ above 3. If you have a history of epilepsy or seizures, consult a doctor before use. Certain patterns may trigger seizures with no prior history. Underage sale is strictly prohibited. Before using see the instruction manual included with your system for more details. For previous reviews, please visit: McClarenDesign's Very Serious SLS AMG Reviews of the Car of the Week N Stuff. Void where prohibited. All videos were filmed before a live studio audience. Car setup monitored by Dark Lion Racing's GT6 Tunes and Tricks app on Android, as administered by Super Best Friends Super Aguri. Contains wheat and soy ingredients. No goats were harmed in the making of this review that we are aware of. This product may cause significant hair loss, headaches, and damage to the immune system. Best wishes to Michael Schumacher! To advertise, contact McClarenDesign@gmail.com. If not completely satisfied, please return the unused portion for a full refund.

    -Super Previous Super Reviews-
    Insightful... but bollocks: Introduction To Failure (or How I went from a Very Serious SLS AMG to Super Best Friends Super Aguri)
    Week 1: '10 Peugeot RCZ

    Week 2: '88 Volvo 240 GLT Estate
    Week 3: '87 Buick Regal GNX
    Week 4: '57 BMW 507 vs '55 Mercedes-Benz 300 SL
    Week 5: '72 Alpine A110 1600s vs '72 Alpine A110 1600s (15th Anniversary Edition) vs '73 Alpine A110 1600s
    Week 6: '90 Nissan Primera 2.0Te / Infiniti G20
    Week 8: STAY TUNED!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  24. CSMDuty11

    CSMDuty11

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    Week 6? I thought the Nissan and the Infiniti were week 6, not the Acura and the Honda.
     
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  25. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    Ha! Forgot to change that. Good eye.
     
  26. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    Congratulations to S30Zenzow!

    Correct. I'm sure we'd all like to move on from front-wheel drive Japanese cars, but S30Zenzow begs to differ. His choice....

    The '98 Toyota Corolla Levin BZ-R / Sprinter Trueno BZ-R!

    [​IMG]

    I think I'm turning Japanese...


    Quite.

     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
    Vic Reign93 likes this.
  27. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    So 3 weeks in a row there has been a FF choice that was made by a Japanese manufacture.

    Yep, definitely turning Japanese indeed. :lol:
     
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  28. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    I know if I say anything about it, whomever is chosen will continue the trend just to spite me. I'm considering veto powers, cause (expletive).
     
  29. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

    Messages:
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    Well, out of the two, I chose the Sprinter mainly because it had the better of the 2 reds... Now to find out if it will help me "Sprint" to the finish line. Time will tell the tale... eventually!

    Cheers
     
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  30. CSMDuty11

    CSMDuty11

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    Ah, you see, i also chose the Sprinter, and i chose it in red as well, because other than the front, its the only thing that makes it different from the Corolla.
    also i think im the only one to notice that on the picture, the toyota has a russian license plate

    Anyway, onto the car.
    Good news: It is cheaper and looks a bit better
    Bad news: It is weaker, and it is yet another japanese FF car that is standard that has a alternative choice. And i can only hope that the next car is something Not-japanese, British isn't japanese.
    Anyway, The Sprinter Trueno! (...BR-Z)
    [​IMG]
    No. Dont you dare pay attention to the Accord, it got enough showtime already.
    Anyway, since history repeated itself, i gotta do it on the 550pp 2-lap race on the Tokyo R246 and mention the Mini 1.3 again, and put some aftermarket rims on it, it is a important part.(except i changed the oil cause i had doubt in the Toyota)
    [​IMG]
    So, first lap, gotta be careful since im a bit slow, i overtake 1 opponent before the 2nd turn, 1 before the last turn, and one in middle of it.
    [​IMG]
    Smoke in YO FACE Coupe! 350GT Coupe infact.
    Anyway, i overtook the opponent in the 2nd place a bit later than the times i drove the prevous 2 cars around on this course, and i decided to do the cocky move i did in the CL, but of all things that didn't happen before...
    [​IMG]
    I heard you were lonely. So i overtook you so you can be with the people not in 1st place
    And with the help of nothing other than driving, i manage to do a not-so close win
    [​IMG]
    Photo finish! Except not really... WHAT SORCERY IS THIS???
    Oh dear oh dear, if this is because the car is good and not because the AI is bad, online racing might change.
    So, yeah, i forgot to drive around on SSR5(it would be worse than those 2, oh wait...) and unlike the said 2 others, i actually bought tunes for it.
    So here we are, if i had to choose bet- YES I WOULD take this over the previous 2 cars
    Verdict: Considering this car did something better than the Accord, which has more PP than it, i'd definately say "Sleeper"