Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by McClarenDesign, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    From what I remember back in GT5, this car was a certified beater. Guess I'll find out soon as I will be joining you guys tonight.
     
  2. CaddyKOP

    CaddyKOP

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    Italian Stallion

    2016 is finally here. I'd been slewed for the past few weeks due to the strong instances of booze that took over on New Years and the short and sweet racing season I had in the first few weeks. Nurburgring, Le Mans, SpA, all in a Mazda LM55. It was a blast, that's for sure, and I have a bunch of pretty trophies in my collection now. But with every good beginning, comes a brutal event. It came with the passing of David Bowie.

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    I can't help but get sentimental about a celebrity's death, but one that I really enjoyed and respected takes a whole new toll on me. I loved Bowie's music. I couldn't tell you how many test reports were fueled by a playlist filled with the likes of his weird music. But, I can't let grievances get in the way of work, now, can I. The revels of the Car of the Year celebrations are over. Congrats to the Z series for your win...wish I could have been around to test you.

    Enough of that now, lets get to the car at hand.

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    Being a boy of America, I never knew about the Fiat Coupé until I was around ten years old. My parents bought me a humongous book about cars from all around the world, and the Coupé was, of course, featured. I was taken aback immediately by its somewhat sexy looks...then I saw the front. That gaping sad mouth, those seemingly depressed eyes. For a car that had a nickname like, "the mini Ferrari," you'd think it'd be happy about such a remark. Thankfully, it looks much better in person. Especially when bathed in the sexy deep red that my tester had.

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    There's something a bit odd about the Coupé. That is, it's part of a breed of cars that simply doesn't exist anymore...or, well, they do, but they're not as rampant as they were in the 1990s. The front-wheel drive coupes. In the 1990s, we had cars like the Toyota Celica, Honda Prelude, Alfa Romeo GTV, so on, and so forth. They were all fantastically beautiful cars, and they drove so well for what they were underneath. The Coupé fit right in at the time of its introduction, and it sold decently. Even though it was gone by the 21st century, it's a shining example of a moment where Fiat bit the bullet and made something spectacular.

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    However, how spectacular it really is is debatable. And that's what I'm here to do. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you year two of CaddyKOP's (now known as DaftRyosuke in some corners) Beat and Sleep Reviews, Part 2: Britpop-fueled Boogaloo.

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    So, first big track day at Barber for 2016. It's a mostly sunny day, and around 4:36 local time, and the first thing I'm noticing is how bloody slow the Coupé really is. It looks so fast on the outside, but when you really get it on the track, it gives off this feeling of pure monotony. The rampant torque steer attacking your arms as you shift gears doesn't exactly help either. It's not something I can't deal with however...nothing's as slow as that bloody Sambavan from a month ago.

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    Cornering is (kinda) where the Coupé really shines. FWD cars always have this tendency to understeer...horrifically. And, while there is some understeer, it still corners very nicely and flatly, less like an Integra, more like a...well, a Ferrari. I was once doubting this nickname it was so famous for, but honestly, for a moment, I understood it.

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    But then, the problem comes in. When trying to apply power mid-turn to drive out of the corner, the steering and the turning of the wheels do nothing but work against each other. It doesn't really understeer, per se, it just slows the car down heavily. I could see that this could become a problem when trying to overtake in a corner. Ugh...and I was really hoping this thing would be a Sleeper.

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    But, through all the floating and extreme power loss in the corners, I managed to finish the lap. It was a bit of a dismal time, unfortunately, 3:35.352, just a few one hundreths of a second faster than the Honda Integra. But, still...I'd rather have that Honda over this Fiat anyday...let's just go ahead and get through the racing part of the review.

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    So, I decided to take the Coupé into the shop to do a little tuning. I added a few good amount of ponies to the engine, tuned the gear ratios a bit, and attempted to stiffen the suspension and get rid of those understeering problems. It...didn't really work, is all I can say. Well, part of it did work, but the other part...

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    The car did become very much faster. Faster than most of the pack, actually. It really did own up to its nickname in this aspect. But the steering problems worsened, along with the very little understeer, now becoming severe understeer. The car stopped being as flat as it was on the test track, it was now plowing straight off the course (or tried to). I may have come in first place near the end, but I was severely displeased. I guess you can't judge a book by its cover, especially is the cover is somewhat good looking and designed by Italians.

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    The Verdict:
    So, it's really got to be obvious what I'm giving this little Italian rocket. You're right, it's a beater. I really didn't want to go so harsh on the first car of the year, but this Fiat pushed my temper so much in stock form, and it didn't do much better after a nice tune. If you're looking for a car of this stature, just buy an Integra or a Celica and be done with it.

    Happy New Year indeed.
     
  3. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    That about sums up my review of the Fiat.

    B.E.A.T.E.R
     
  4. photonrider

    photonrider

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    Unfortunately, at the same moment you rapscallions will be beating this dead horse around Sierra, I'll be working like a dog. K-9, that is.


    Enjoy.
    When everyone's running the same beater it's going to be a helluva bunch o' fun.
    In a sort of frustrated, albeit hilarious, way.
     
  5. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Well, in the end, that's good to hear; the Coupe may not impress people with mad performance or sharper-than-a-katana handling, but at least it's no Prius...
    It's still a nice car regardless, the Fiat is just in very dangerous company in Gran Turismo galore. Harks back to those glorious GT2 demo days, when the S2000 was the bane of every player's existence.
     
  6. photonrider

    photonrider

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    Actually the Fiat has its own particular persona - quite enjoyable if one is not pushing its limits. After all one wouldn't want to harness a racehorse to the Princess's carriage. Some strong runners who are docile enough to take orders will do. The Fiat performs quite well in the league it is in - when cars like the Alfa Spyder are left out.

    IRL - I could believe that it was value for money for many consumers.
     
  7. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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  8. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Fire Into Any Trashcan...

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    Trying to find something nice to say about the Coupe Turbo Minus is going to be a challenge. I was kind of looking forward to this one when I first read about it, as I really don't remember driving one before. Now I know why I've ignored it all along.

    As always, I looked at the Dealership stats on the car... 1,310 kilo's... not bad. 219 hp... not bad. 4 cylinder engine in an FF car... can handle that. At least it won't be as bad as a 6 in an FF car I said... that was my first mistake.

    Yipes!!! For a car that has numbers like I quoted, it's TERRIBLE to drive. Understeer is expected, but this is more like undertow in a fast moving current. NOOOOOO!!! I didn't want to go THAT way!!! For a car that weighs as little as it does, you'd think the brakes would work. That was my second mistake.

    My third mistake was thinking the near 50 grand to buy a FIAT would get me a decent car. No wonder its face looks sad. It's almost as disappointed as I was.

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    Turbo Plus eh... that just means its getting added to my Stockyard quickly. Beater and forget her.

    Cheers
     
  9. Draggon

    Draggon

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    Hey BBR, where did you go last night? You just sort of disappeared. Was the Fiat THAT bad?
     
  10. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    We had a bit of a winter storm here in the area that was playing havoc with my internet connection. I was actually knocked off totally twice before giving up. No matter how bad the car is, the racing with you people will always be good... if not entertaining to say the least! ;)

    Cheers
     
  11. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    Am I the only one that called it a sleeper?!
     
  12. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Probably, but you shouldn't be ashamed of saying so. In the end, COTW is all about seeing what makes a beater or a sleeper in each person's eyes. ;)

    In the Coupe's defense, we were spoiled by much better - prepared FF cars, with the likes of the Volkswagen Lupo GTI and the eternal Honda Integra Type R. The Coupe isn't terrible, it just falls short of the high mark set by those cars. As I've said before, it's a decent car in overachieving company.

    And if you thought the Coupe's understeer is bad, then you'd probably gouge your eyes out after a run in Opel's Calibra 4x4. For a Tipo chassis, the Coupe is a godsend. The Calibra is a much worse devil...
     
  13. Draggon

    Draggon

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    Ha! My impression is that this car typifies "slow in, fast out". I learned several times that late braking and pushing into a turn doesn't work. I was doing well at Laguna until turn 9 when I braked late and watched my progress slide off into the sand. Off the throttle early, brake, and roll around the corner seems to work best, at least for me. I was going to use it in the latest hot hatch seasonal, but got some senses about me and realized I don't really like it enough to endure even 3 more laps with it. Hence beater status for me. Too bad, I love how it looks.
     
  14. RacingOtaku86

    RacingOtaku86

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    My brief review of the FIAT:

    It sucks, but it is alright.

    Allow me to explain why this is (in my own way). The handling of this car is incredibly bad. I know that it can be argued that GT6 didn't quite get the handling of FF cars right (compared to other racing titles), but based on what we have, I would much rather drive a Civic or Integra. The car feels much heavier than it probably is, and it does have an effect on the handling. That is probably the biggest issue I have with it. Oh, and brakes. They're pretty weak.

    BUT, this car has a very impressive engine in it. It has torque, it has power, and it might be one of the quickest FF's. The design of the body is quite nice to look at; there's probably a good reason why we don't see this kind of design in N. America, but it's still nice.

    Overall, when I consider the above, I give it a neutral rating. It's a crappy handling machine, but it's a quick little machine. Maybe I can find a decent suspension tune for the car...
     
  15. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    I might as well get the Fiat review out of the way as I've still got a few cars from last year to write up on. :p

    Fiat Internals Always Troubling

    My reviews normally start with me usually talking about the cars history and stats, but let's just say the Coupe was already giving me grief this time.

    During the TT and COTW events it's no secret that I use staggered tyre set ups on FF cars to help turn the car in and adjusting the Brake Balance more rearward, both these things aren't considered tuning by PD, but this is where things get weird.

    Before Tuesday's event, I had a crack at the Time Trial for the Fiat, I set up the car like normal and had a quick sighting lap before making some adjustments, but it wouldn't let back on track due to my car now being classed as tuned. :odd:

    No biggie, just default all settings and problem solved right?

    Surprisingly no, so now I'm curious, was it the rims? nope.

    Was it the oil? nope.

    The car was now locked into a pernemant state of tuned, so I sold it and got another one, same thing happened again.:rolleyes:

    After buying 4 Coupe Turbo Plus's, I couldn't diagnose the problem, it wasn't me adjusting the brake balance or staggering the tyres that did it, even when combined.

    So naturally we didn't get to the start of the nights racing and the Fiat was already falling out of my good graces and it wasn't looking better either on the track.

    The weight distribution is a 66:34 split, almost 2/3rds of the cars weight is over the front axle. :crazy:

    To its credit as far as I'm aware, it's the only car that still retains a decent 5 cylinder soundtrack after a sound update which took away the Focus ST and the Volvo's 5 cylinder sounds ( among other cars). :tup:

    It is also not half bad when it's going straight due to a decent 5 speed gearbox and around 220hp.

    Of course it all falls apart when it comes to handling, to compensate for the insane understeer, you have to have less grippy tyres on the back to help rotate the car through the turns.

    When you compare it's stats to the cars around it, it's not in what you would call good company. :nervous:

    At just under 50k, it's more than double the cost of a '98 Integra Type R, the TRD Celica and more worryingly, the '95 Eclipse. :scared:

    The Eclipse is 20kg heavier, but packs 7hp more from stock and if I recall correctly, less weight over the front axle too.

    So if you look at it by the stats alone, The Coupe is roughly the same as the Eclipse, but for twice the price.

    A Few things save it from being worse than the Vectra, it's lighter, more powerful, better looking and has a now unique engine sound from its 2.0 5 cylinder engine.

    So my vote for 2016 Beater of the year is the Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus.


    For Now.... we still have a whole year ahead of us yet. ;)

    Now to take care of another last year victim.

    The Toyota Prius and TC Prius.

    The Prius won Beater of the year last year ( but not the worse car of the year accolade won by the Vectra) and it wasn't too hard to figure out why.

    I tried livening up things by painting the Prius matte pink, but it felt like lipstick on a pig. :lol:

    The start of races were so quiet you could hear a pin drop, the droning from the engine was annoying, and if the battery was drained, you were a sitting duck for anyone within range who still had battery power.

    The latter of those issues did make for some close racing so I can forgive it that.

    But if you're wanting a hybrid, what's wrong with the Honda Insight?

    Both the older and newer Insight are slightly cheaper, both are less powerful, but both are lighter by quite a bit, 150kg for the newer model and over half a ton for the older model.

    Both can be taken further if you decide to tune them up, you can even swap the CVT out of the New Insight for a 5 speed gearbox.

    Overall, the Prius might be good in a stock Hybrid battle, but otherwise it's not the one I'd pick. :tdown:

    The Touring Car version however would make for an excellent one make race series for all skill levels. :D

    The CVT whilst still annoying, is better suited here as it puts everyone on a level field, the sticky races tyres give great traction and confidence and the car feels easy to drive because of it.

    But even here, Honda has an answer with the lighter CR-Z TC, but they are quite closely matched here despite the weight difference.

    So in summary, Standard Prius is a beater and the TC Prius is Neutral.

    Side note: At the time of writing, the issue regarding the Fiat Coupe has returned, Locked into a state of tuned despite defaulting everything. :ouch:
     
  16. Draggon

    Draggon

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    What? Adjusting brake balance isnt considered tuning?
     
  17. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Nope :sly:

    Power restricting as well, but ballest is considered tuning. PD logic is odd sometimes, just like the "swear filter" in Lobbys. :D
     
  18. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    I honestly hate the swear filter, it **********************************.
     
  19. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    Guess that makes me the only one that adores this car.

    Don't think of it as a Fiat, think of it as Piero Ferrari.
     
  20. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Sorry, but the closest this thing could get to being a Ferrari is if it got accidentally hit by Piero's used condom. A glorified wannabe at best, and that's being nice. :lol:

    Cheers
     
  21. Draggon

    Draggon

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    Well, now that explains it. :crazy:
     
  22. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    That's one heck of a harsh comment.
     
  23. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    It's Baron, he's just being Canadian honest. The Coupe can be quite infuriating, and that brings out the harshest side of many folks. Take the example of a player who (briefly) joined us yesterday; he raced for only a while in Cote D'Azur, then ragequit while writing in all caps "I HATE FWDS LOL". Now that's harsh, because he generalised the heck out of all FWDs just because the Coupe was not up to his standards...
     
    Baron Blitz Red likes this.
  24. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    The Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus has 409 PP after initial purchase. Here's how it stacks up against the other 409 PP cars:

    1:27.328 - 409 - Lotus Elise Type 72 '01
    1:27.422 - 409 - TRD Celica TRD Sports M (ZZT231) '00
    1:28.294 - 409 - Nissan Skyline GTS-t Type M (R32) '89
    1:28.784 - 409 - Nissan 180SX Type X '96
    1:29.688 - 409 - Fiat Coupe Turbo Plus '00
    1:30.424 - 409 - Alfa Romeo Brera Sky Window 3.2 JTS Q4 '06

    So the Fiat isn't the worst 409 PP car in GT6, but it comes very close. From now on, I'll include these same-PP comparisons in my normal "reviews."
     
  25. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    For those of you keeping score at home:

     
  26. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Much like the "shock jocks" of old, my humour is based in sarcasm, sprinkled with "What did he just say", and served on a plate of the truth.

    Just remember, the only difference between "It's funny cause it's true" and Tourette's Syndrome is a doctor's note.

    Cheers
     
  27. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    I'm stealing that.

    Congratulations CaddyKOP, and well done! You've earned this week's selection, but please, no more Stalone references. Mick might have to cut ya.

    Jackie Chan and Owen Wilson?

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    It's the 2002 Toyota Voltz S AND the 2003 Pontiac Vibe!

    So nice, it helped euthanize one while being disavowed by the other. Not sure if it's a Car of the Week or a government spy, but we get both anyway!

    But before you pick up the controller, there are a few things you may want to know about these two.

    Make: '02 Toyota Voltz S - '03 Pontiac Vibe
    Performance: 347 PP - 381 PP (cause 'Murica!)
    Phatness: 1250 kg - 1273 kg (also cause 'Murica!)
    Puniness: 137 hp - 187 hp
    Dolla Bills, yo!: 17,880 - 21,120 (and will probably be recalled before it's delivered to your garage)

    The answer? If you join us on either Tuesday or Saturday, you'll need BOTH!

    "But Brad, what about the Time Trial events?"

    Well, to answer your second question first, shut up! Secondly, you already know that @Vic Reign93 won last week with his overachieving time of 2:53.087, and I'm willing to bet that it was his mom that bought that time. Or maybe what @Obelisk said about me is actually true for him and he sold his soul (who do I talk to about that, anyway?. I'm not using it.) For this week's challenge and the major performance gap between the two cars, this week will have to be a little different in that we can only test one of the two and be competitive.

    We consulted United Laboratories about tests they had run, Kelly Blue Book for gross over-estimations of approximate value that no one will ever pay for these cars, track analysis from Aichi, Japan and Detroit, Michigan, reviewed all available data from the Department of Energy and the Department of Transportation, verified the data from the California emissions tests on both... whatevertheyares (it's not a "car")... and then we punched a puppy and @Baron Blitz Red flipped a coin (so he gets 50% of the blame should something go wrong, Vic gets the other because reasons). This week's challenge will be on the Matterhorn Rotenboden with the Vibe, and again, that's assuming that you were able to take delivery and transport the car before being served with a recall notice.

    (Kat Von D requires some assembly, consult your prenuptial agreement for details.)
     
  28. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    Oh, God, no. NOT THESE THINGS.

    AAAAAAAAAAAA-
     
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  29. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    That's what I said, then looked around and saw that it could be much, much worse. I'd rather have the Fiat, but at least it's not a Vectra or worse.
     
  30. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    Aren't these Pontiacs too?

    Edit: OB had a brain fart.