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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by McClarenDesign, Dec 29, 2013.
I didn't think about the dust... Ignore me, and someone tell me to shut up!
yeah, rally races are horrible because of the dust and the way rally is, there's a reason why real life rallies aren't races wheel to wheel
You don't know what you're asking for. Rally would become bumper car carnage.
As for now...
Somebody won something last week, said "blah blah blah", then picked our car.
2004 Seat Ibiza Cupra!
This post will be updated once I get back from my joyride with Mr. Salvador Dali.
En su bocha.
So for highlighting a Spanish car, I thought it would be appropriate to go to Spain. Instead of doing the normal Madrid thing, I thought I'd check out Ronda. No, not the one that the Beach Boys sing about! The town. Although, since I'm hungry and lost, maybe singing "Help Me Ronda" might get me some food.
I really hope I can get a steak here... mmmm, steak!
Remember, arrow marks the spot that we parked at...
The scenery is definitely worth it here on the Puento Nuevo...
Hopefully, now that I'm full, it won't be acting too much like ballast for this SEAT. I really don't need anything else to slow me down against the COTW crew! Maybe this tune will give me some inspiration this week...
Well that was unexpected.
The ibiza '04 is like the 5th evolution of several Ibiza models, and the first one was.... curiously it was a discarded project for the Volkswagen Golf MK2 (the squared one on the left)
If you'd like to participate in the bonus race, bring a LCC Rocket.
Tuned or stock?
I'm guessing stock.
Correct, but to be honest, this is more for my amusement... expect a long, fun race, but the payoff will be a bit later, Friday at the earliest.
Seat Ibiza Cupra 2004
She's not a bad looking car, reminded a bit of an Alfa.
I knew nothing about this car or the manufacturer so I had to read the info supplied by PD. When I first saw her I thought she looked a bit like an Alfa so I was not surprised to find that the chief designer also designed the Alfa Romeo 156. When I read she is a Spanish made VW I thought we might be in for a nice ride. VW seems to have done well in this segment and produces some pretty nice little pocket rockets. Boy was I disappointed
Surprising how big the SRT looks next to her.
Her specs were 179hp/403pp, fairly close to the SRT4 and the Focus-ST so I took her out to Streets of Willow to see how she stacked up. I tested her with both the stock CS and SH tires as well.
Streets of Willow TT, best of 5 laps:
Seat CS - 1:28.122
Seat SH - 1:24.819
SRT4 SH- 1:23.132
Focus ST- 1:22.545
She reminded me a lot of last weeks car. How in the world could that be you may ask? She didn't like nothin'...that's how!
Trans...does it matter? She has no power to speak of.
Handling...pffft...the body roll is astronomical for a car this small, both fore and aft and side to side. To top it off, she pushes like nobodies business, you know how I feel about a pushy car
Even the Focus looks rather large.
To be fair, I did take out for a 5 lap run at streets, with stock CS rubber.
P1, total time 7:33.427, best 1:28.730
P1 against a Commodore SS, Plymouth Superbird and a Firebird T/A! Is PD serious? I was so disgusted I didn't even bother to tune her up and make another run...I even forgot to save the race so I could get some pics. With the looks of an Alfa and the history of VW's fast, fun little rides this car is a massive fail...the epitomy of a beater!
How long until Sunday
Probably not going to be able to make it on tonight. Happy racing, and I'll hopefully be back for rolling chicane duty next week.
(I'm gonna attempt this review thing. I hope it goes well.)
2004 SEAT Ibiza Cupra
When the contact handed me the one-way ticket to Spain, I let out a silent cry. First time reviewing, and they send me to Spain, to probably review some small, economic hatchback which maybe barely got 100 horsepower. Needless to say, I wasn't a happy camper.
When I arrived in Valencia, I received a notice that said I should go to the City of Arts and Sciences, one of the major attractions in the city. It said there would be a blue hatchback in the vicinity, with the keys in the ignition. "Blue hatchback," I recited in disdain. I called the taxi and tried my best to relay the message in Spanish.
After I arrived, it took me about an hour to find the car, but eventually I did...on the other side of the facility. But, there it was, a small blue hatchback with the keys in the ignition, made by a company I wasn't really that familiar with. SEAT.
Adorable? Yes. Exciting? Maybe
I sat in the car and I took out the key to look at it. It held a tag which said, "2004 Ibiza Cupra." I shrugged and turned the key in the ignition. It started up and let out the note of what seemed to be a 4-cylinder gas engine. "At least it isn't a diesel," I muttered to myself.
The next morning I walked out to the car and took a good look at it, where I noticed some features I must have missed the night before. The front lip looked kinda angry. The exhaust looked bigger than those I usually found on normal hatchbacks. Maybe I'll find out more about it once I got to my destination, which was roughly 11 hours away: the famous Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps.
So, track time. When I arrived at the track the next day, it was around noon, and my contact was standing and waiting for me with a spec sheet for the car. I looked it over.
179 horsepower @ 5800 rpm
180 foot pounds of torque @ 2000 rpm
As well as a little information.
Basically, the SEAT Ibiza Cupra is a Hot Supermini car, a type that we aren't that used to in America (luckily I have heard of them in the past), that's based on the Volkswagen Polo Mk4. It's powered by a 1.8L Turbocharged I-4 which puts out the power rankings above. After hearing this information, I felt a little more confident as I took it around the track.
And away we go.
So, around the first corner, which is actually an extremely tight corner, I did the same old technique and she did exactly what I was hoping he wouldn't. Understeer. Not too drastic that it sent me into the wall at the other side, but enough to get me on the outside. I just dusted it off and kept my hopes up as I went down the straight. It took a little while, but I got her up to 100 as I approached Eau Rouge and the hill. As expected, she lost power up the hill, but she didn't give up, and as I got to the straight at the top, the speed I achieved was enough to at least get a little smile on my face.
It did quite well on the hill, to my amazement.
The next couple of corners came up, and I had no feel of understeer coming from her. I guess it was just the tightness of the first corner that brought it out. I kept on going.
Feeling a little more sporty through Les Combes.
The same old thing happened at the next couple of sections of the track. I went into the corner, perhaps a little understeer, but I just sped out. But what I didn't realize was the happiness I was feeling inside. I was having a lot of fun with this car, and I feel like she was having fun with me, and that's when it happened. I sped straight through Liege and kept on going, and at full speed, I believe that's where the handling of this car really shines. I was grinning like crazy by now. Total fun.
By the time I got to Blanchimont, I could feel the massive smile creep up on my face.
So, the lap ended, with a 3:11 on the clock. I really didn't want to give her up, so I begged for a few more laps. By the time I was done, I had knocked a few seconds off, down to 3:09, and I was contempt. The long trip to Spain and the 11 hour journey had all paid off for this wonder of a car. I think it taught me never to underestimate cars like these ever again. "Don't judge a book by its cover," they always say.
Time to go home. Goodbye, you wonderful machine.
Final Verdict: Sleeper. I really misjudged this car and its abilities, I guess that's what I get for driving a supercharged Cadillac and a heavily tuned Porsche RUF all the time. But, overall, it's good cheap fun for someone who wants an entry into the hot hatch scene. If you want one, buy it. You definitely won't regret it.
Glad you liked the Cupra ,it is a freat little trackday car.
No wonder the Ibiza reminded some of you of Alfa Romeo little cars...
Italian designer that worked at Alfa Romeo, then left and joined SEAT
Some additional info about SEAT:
In the last years they have had some history of building some of the best handling FF cars you can buy. You can already see that the Ibiza in GT6, even though its not very powerful, it handles really well. They have done well in FF touring cars.
Its an enormous PD fault that there's no SEAT Leon in the game. Its probably the most popular and most liked SEAT car, and it has a great handling for an FF car. The latest Leon model has beaten the Nordschleife record for an FF car.
Didn't get the LCC footage because I'm an idiot, but I did bring you this:
Both me and Vic saved that replay (especially as the entire final straight was side by side), I've explained the process on how to send it to you. If there are problems then I will try myself, but without a PC to hand will be more difficult. The other PC in the house is basically non-functional to go along with my already dead gaming PC.
I disagree Ibiza is the most popular SEAT , but Leon is the flagship ,powerful and loved one.
I am still hoping for a Leon DLC (vote for them on car requests you never know)
As a Seat Enthusiast I bought Forza3-4 only because of the Seat cars (it has a nice roster)
So... Caddy... pick yer poison...
1997 Toyota Soarer 2.5 GT-T/Lexus SC 300!
Another twofer, excellent. And considering that it's rear-wheel drive and has a turbo, who's up for some fun? Maybe some automotive excitement? Perhaps even a...
Tiny Tuned Adventure?
465 PP, Sports (Hard) tyres, no NOS (this is Tiny Tuned, not Need For Speed, not Fast with a Hint of Furious, ya schmuck), and as an added bonus, you'll need to have one of these for the BONUS race.
I got an idea...
Another good choice for COTW.
Quite a good choice of engines for it as well, a 3 litre non turbo 2JZ 6 cylinder making around 225hp, a 4 litre 1UZ V8 which made almost 300hp near the end of its production run.
Toyota had the perk of getting the 2.5 litre twin turbo 1JZ alongside the other motors as well.
Interestingly, the only model to get a manual from Toyota was the 2.5 where's the Lexus Sc300 got a manual with the 3.0 but only until 1998 when it was swapped for a 4 speed auto.
So if you find a good condition pre 98 SC300 with a stick or a 2.5 Toyota, go for it.
I used to grumble when I got this car (and the other similar Aristo/GS Toyotas) back in GT5 shuffle, it always used to be faced with faster cars. Other than a super long transmission, the Soarer and the Aristo/GS cars can be drifted forever. The cars initially have understeer but some throttle will bring the back end around very smoothly, the loss of grip is so progressive and hard not to like.
If I remember rightly, tuned up this car was one of the fastest in my garage in GT1. I shan't be joining this week though, it's the other halves birthday tomorrow.
Blame the US market for that. The SC300 was an "entry level" option added a year after the SC400 came to our shores. The fancier SC400 wasn't available with a manual (since manual transmission luxury cars tend not to sell well in the US) and I think that the SC300 only got a manual option as a means of distinguishing it further from the more expensive SC400. Since the manual SC300s didn't sell, they dropped the option. :-/
Well after a good day and being satisfied with my latest photo-shoot, it was time to get off the beaten trail and back on the road to the office to get my review done of the Toyota Soarer GT-T. This looks like the right way, so I'll turn here!
Being a little late, I safely pass this rent a cop who was going WAY too slow. All of a sudden...
WHAT THE !!!
"You're going to have fun walking from here boy!!!"
AWW MAN!!! If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have none at all... I'll never get anything done now.
Toyota Soarer 2.5 GT-T
Anybody seen my keys?
Typical bland 90's-00's styling, could be confused with a Monte Carlo or many others from the period. In stock trim she came in at 276hp/430pp, with a mild tune I got 369hp/468pp. Not too shabby in the numbers department, lets see how it translates on the track.
I had expected PD to slam on the brakes here, it didn't happen. Apparently neither of us were intending on lifting.
Spa Francorchamps TT:
stock - 3:04.396
tuned - 2:52.766
The Toyota somehow squeezes through unmolested.
I chose the National-A Turbo Sports series race 3, 2 laps at Spa this week. This is a race for 550pp or less cars, I figured starting 120pp down (and with stock CS instead of SS tires) might give some competition, I figured wrong.
stock: P2, total 6:20.756, best 3:09.655
tuned: P1, total 5:55.115, best 2:56.308
Remember this one? Week 1 car, the Peugeot RCZ.
I have to admit I was a bit impressed with her performance in stock trim. The gearbox pulled fairly strong throughout topping out at 125mph up Kemmel Straight. Stopping wasn't the problem, the brakes were quite good, it was handling while braking that was the problem. You can't brake into the corners, she would push and you can't brake on the straight since she would nose-dive so bad the tail end would get light. She just didn't handle well while braking at all.
Here you can see how badly she nose dived under braking. The rear end would get light and want to dance around on you. Even though I cut 12 seconds off my lap time with the tune she didn't feel much different. She just felt like a bigger, heavier car than she was. I didn't really feel the body roll and only really noticed it once I watched the replays a saw the pics. In retrospect, I should have done some suspension work for the tune, maybe later this week.
The PD AI was giving no quarter at Spa this week.
With the body roll and the squealing, smoking stock CS tires the Toyota could become a handful if pushed.
Only two laps and I am not sure if I have ever been happier seeing the checkers...even if I was in P2.
This car is confusing, she is plenty fast for her class, but not fun to drive at all. I think Toyota got the drivetrain right, performance in class at this price point is rather impressive. They missed the chassis by a long shot though. Probably a good example of why a German car in this class costs about twice as much. I can't say for sure though since I didn't have anything else on my Spa time sheets. If I have time this week maybe I'll check the dealerships for a low end Merc and Beemer with similar specs and see how they stack up.
Overall she's a solid performer and since I am sure she wasn't designed with track use in mind I suppose for this price one might overlook the chassis issues. My vote goes for...sleeper.
I think this car problem is weight distribution. Too many weight in the front that leads to understeer. And quite heavy overall too.
I gave it engine stage 3 and all weight upgrades for a final pp of 499 and took it to the tour of japan race at R246 and spanked the 2 R35's that started on P1 & P2
Japan vs Germany
aka Toyota Soarer part 2
The teams are set:
Red team - Japan
Infinity G35 coupe / Toyota Soarer GT
Blue team - Germany
Audi S4 / BMW 330i
As I mentioned in my first post, I didn't have anything to compare the Toyota with on my Spa time sheets. This is what I was able to come up with at the dealerships.
Let the battle begin...
The Toyota was terrible under braking and had way too much body roll. Her saving grace was a well matched trans and turbo which pulled strongly throughout the gears and provided enough power to at least partially compensate for the bad chassis. A good solid performer overall at a decent price for her class. (You can read the whole review above)
With more neutral handling and plenty of power the G35 inspired confidence...a bit too much at times.
I was expecting more of the same with the Infinity and was pleasantly surprised. Another nice mating of motor and trans, pulling strong through all the gears. Much more neutral handling than the Toyota and plenty enough power on tap to steer with your right foot. Maybe I am old school or maybe I am just plain old, but I am a firm believer that "loose is fast" and there is no substitute for cubes. This car backed up those beliefs for me.
All wheel drive...all wheel slide!
This car was the biggest surprise of them all. With it's $70K+ price tag, awd and turbo I was expecting more...much more. I would even choose the handling of the Toyota over this car, once all four wheels start sliding you only have two options, lift or slide off the track. The trans/turbo/motor tuning was horrible. The gears were way too tall, dropping the revs out of the turbo range on upshifts, all you could do was wait for it to kick in.
The little beemer that...couldn't?
She had the sharpest most precise handling of the group, what she didn't have was enough motor. Larger than both the Toyota and Audi, but with no turbo and nearly in the middle of the two in weight. The trans/motor wasn't bad, to a point. The top end of 4th got a bit long and when you hit 5th the motor had just given all she had. I just wanted more power and there was none to be had.
Spa Francorchamps TT / top speed
Infinity G35 - 2:59.413 / 130
Audi S4 - 3:00.827 / 125
BMW 330i - 3:02.929 / 123
Toyota GT - 3:04.396 / 125
Personally, figuring bang for the buck I would rank them Infinity, BMW/Toyota (tie) and Audi last. Over all, a good solid performer for her price and in her class.
Sorry about the delay, everyone. I had my aunt's funeral on Friday, now my dad's in the hospital. Rather than dwell on it, just show up tonight and have fun.
Perhaps you'll join us online at 10p CST tonight to show us what you've got. Stash's choice...
2004 Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe!
Choosing photos gets harder and harder each week. Good choice!
BMW Vision Gran Turismo BONUS race tonight. Free popcorn and balloons for the kids.
No worries @McClarenDesign Family always comes first.
On to the Goat.
To the COTW regulars (or newcomers in which case welcome ) the GTO has made an appearance before in @JackRyanWMU 's review of the 288 GTO as an alternative choice for a car called the GTO.
The GTO was the brainchild of a few Pontiac engineers including John DeLorean himself.
The Principals behind the GTO when the it first came out in the 60s were simple, small car, big engine, reasonable price, among other things.
The first generation GTO's came with either a 389(6.4L) or a 400CI (6.6L) V8. The second generation GTO brought out the now well sought after 'The Judge' GTO with a 455(7.5L!!) V8 option.
Now to the fourth generation,
Based on the Holden Monaro and mechanically the same as both the Holden and the Vauxhall Monaro.
Sadly the GTO we have here doesn't have the 400hp 6.0 V8 but, it does have a manual.
Pontiac has sadly gone the way of the Dodo and with it went, the Solstice, the Firebird, the Aztec, the Fiero, all the rebadged Chevys like the G3,4,5, the Trans Am, the GXP and the Pontiac Bonneville.
I kinda miss Pontiac