Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by McClarenDesign, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    The Mustang that I used to own in real life...
    [​IMG]


    The Stang I would love to own...
    [​IMG]

    This is my first attempt at uploading pictures, so forgive me for being a bit late...

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  2. iainn

    iainn Premium

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    Dodge SRT SRT4

    Meh. That's the best I can say for it really.

    In stock form with 428PP I managed an understeery 57.943 round Brands Indy circuit. After a small bit of tuning thanks to HaB Racing PP was upped to 450 and on SH tyres the lap took a much better 54.641.

    I didn't have much time to try anything else, but I don't think I'm missing much really, it's another ugly car but it does fulfill the aim of COTW in that I wouldn't have tried it otherwise.

    [​IMG]

    Not many photos this week as this was the best angle I could get.

    Cheers
     
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  3. JackRyanWMU

    JackRyanWMU

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    Chrysler right now is, quite simply, in the middle of an identity crisis. The company's purchase by Fiat has now suddenly seen the Viper become an "SRT" and "Dodge Rams" simply become "Rams." But such a thing is not entirely new to Chrysler. Back when they were owned by Daimler, they took on the monumental task of taking its cutesy, "total chick car" Dodge Neon and trying to transform it to a track car to appeal to the hardcore audience in the form of the "Dodge SRT4."

    [​IMG]

    Credit does need to be given where its due, and taken strictly from a driving perspective, the SRT team did do well for itself in the aspects not easily visible from the exterior. While the turbo four may deliver an engine note as exciting and dynamic as a leaf blower, it does also deliver ample power to scoot this compact car along. Its front wheel drive arrangement may not make it the sharpest of handlers, but for a casual racer its predictability and stability are hard to fault. And with it turning in a best time of 1:18.890 at Grand Valley East, almost a full second faster than the BMW 330i I had tested here earlier, it can post some respectable lap times. And with it doing this all for a price of around 20,000 credits, it should have all the qualifications of a Sleeper.

    [​IMG]

    But sadly, the people responsible for the exterior styling weren't the same brilliant minds at GM who decided the Buick Regal GNX should hardly be discernible from a run of the mill Regal. Instead, the people at Chrysler were determined to make this car look "Meaner" and "Racier." And so this Neon gained a faux-Viper front bumper, non-functional hood scoops, and a garish rear wing. What Chrysler tried to do turning the Neon into the SRT4 is akin to putting Godzilla scales on Pikachu. It's not going to intimidate or instill fear in anyone, and if it gets any reaction at all its going to be howls of laughter.

    [​IMG]

    The 2003 Dodge Neon SRT4 is a car that should register as a Sleeper by any other circumstances, but its styling misses the mark by such a huge gap that it sinks the entire package right down to a "Beater" verdict. Sure, the car may be quick, but the only solace it would offer is that it might get you home before anybody sees you in it. And while Chrysler may have an identity crisis on its hands, the fact that it now dubs its compact car the Dart seems to show that the company has no desire to revive memories of its Neon past.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  4. photonrider

    photonrider

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    @McClarenDesign - Had major lagging during the 3-lapper at Nurb, and when the race ended I was frozen; hence the sudden quit. Loading was playing up before that. Sorry - not sure what happened.

    Reviews later - may do both Mustang and Neon together.
     
  5. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    2003 SRT-4

    City of Arts and Sciences - Night.jpg
    She held up nicely, performance wise, to a ten year newer favorite hot hatch, the Focus ST.


    @Zenmervolt wasn't the only one to liken her to the Focus ST, perhaps because I have more wins in this car than any other. Since credits were so hard to come by early in this game and the Focus qualified for so much of the early career mode, I just kept on racing and winning with her.
    Willow Springs International Raceway - Streets Of Willow Springs_4.jpg
    Cutting inside a Volvo for the pass going onto the long front stretch.

    I was unfamiliar with Willow Springs until GT6 and have only driven it when it shows up in the game. I am starting to like it though, it's a nice change from my usual Tsukuba run for smaller, lower powered cars. The SRT-4 comes in at 228hp/428pp versus the Focus at 252hp/429pp so it's a good comparison. I did even it up a bit testing the SRT with SH tires as well as the stock CS rubber.
    Willow Springs International Raceway - Streets Of Willow Springs_5.jpg
    The pass for the lead, early in lap 3

    Streets of Willow TT:
    SRT-4 CS - 1:26.718
    SRT-4 SH - 1:22.644
    Focus-ST - 1:22.545
    Willow Springs International Raceway - Streets Of Willow Springs_6.jpg
    I got a little over confident on the last lap and almost did a bit of off roading.

    Streets of Willow 5 lap vs Pro AI:
    P1, best lap / 1:27.731, total time / 7:27.161
    Willow Springs International Raceway - Streets Of Willow Springs_8.jpg
    Taking the checkers at Streets!

    I was really impressed with this car, sure it's ugly (it's a Neon) but she performed very well, even on par with the much newer Focus ST. She is another of the few I felt no need to change out the gearbox to take to the track for one thing. I think Dodge SRT hit it right on the money here, perfectly mating the trans to the motor. Braking was great, that was one of the hardest things to get used to...just how deep you could go into a corner before getting on the binders and turn in was surprisingly sharp. I decided against any tuning since when I switched from the stock CS to SH tires the car pushed even worse due to getting into the corners even faster. I figured if I added more power she would just push more and I hate a pushy car! No, I think this is a testament to guys and gals at SRT, they seem to have gotten all the performance they could out of what they were given to work with. In her class, I think she is one of the most balanced cars we have tested yet and for me, that puts her firmly into the sleeper category (which is where being ugly or plain is a plus) :tup:
     
  6. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    I don't feel the same hatred towards this car like other people do, I don't mind it, it doesn't look that bad to me. Stock, it's not a sleeper in my opinion, it has the typical understeer problems you would expect, but tuned it is a sleeper without even adding any power to it.

    I did not prepare for this weeks' CoTW, I bought the car 5 minutes before entering the room, so when it came down to the tuned races, I had to quickly make up a blind tune. I raced a lot of FF cars at 420pp in GT5, which is just below the Neon's stock PP, and at 500pp in GT6, so I have an idea of what I need to do with the setup. The first race, without any testing, and the car felt great straight off the bat. I tweaked it a little for our SSR5 race and couldn't believe how capable the handling was. Lowering the weight and power would probably make it even better, but as is I was very pleasantly surprised. I was able to throw the car into corners and mash the throttle. The more throttle that was applied, the more the rear end would rotate, so I could literally take most corners flat out and the front would keep turning inwards towards the apex, great stuff for a front wheel drive car.


    Here's the setup I used during CoTW, I feel that it improved the car massively, even with no testing beforehand. For the transmission, you will need to set it to default (by fitting the stock transmission and then refitting the custom one), the set the final gear all the way to the right. Next you need to set the top speed, before doing the final and individual gears. (i.e, this is the "flipped" transmission method for extended lower gears).

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
  7. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Well what can I say about the SRT4???

    To be honest, I really don't know... unlike the Cobra R, I couldn't tell the differences between the base model and this Campbell's souped up version, and without any crackers around, it's just bland. I never got online for GT5's heyday where this was supposed to be king of the FF's, so I don't understand the appeal of it.

    I've read some of the other reviews previous to mine, and I do respect them, but I don't share the sentiment. Maybe because I'm not a fan of FF cars, or maybe because I'm not a fan of smaller Dodge's. I really don't think this car is a good example of Mopar Muscle at all. It's like saying Richard Simmons is a good comparison to Arnie's Mr. Universe days. The joke isn't even funny.

    [​IMG]

    In my head, the car is a Beater. I do understand why it could be considered a Sleeper as others have put it, but to me, I notice the building behind it first before I notice the car. At least the rims I put on it are nice... :lol:

    Cheers
     
  8. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    Congratulations VicReign93!
    Such a shame. The racing (vids up soon) was fantastic, and it was nice to have a race that wasn't won by 40 seconds over 2nd place.

    ...I mean you were missed. Regardless, just pick the damn car...

    1998 Nissan STAGEA 260RS AutechVersion!

    [​IMG]
    Excellent! This should have PLENTY of room to add 2000 extra kilos before Tuesday, and perhaps after that we'll be competitive.

    Of coarse, I could always just kick him after the 1st race. Hmmmmmm.....
     
  9. Lewis_Hamilton_

    Lewis_Hamilton_

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    The Stagea is a very, very good estate car/wagon. Then again, it's basically a Skyline with a longer body.

    If you haven't tried this car yet and expect this to drive like a typical car of it's class, you'll be pleasantly suprised when you try it out.
     
  10. Zenmervolt

    Zenmervolt

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    Oooo! Wagons!

    [​IMG]
     
  11. sagaper

    sagaper

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    I have it in yellow, in GT2. And it was fun to drive.
    If the car has brought along some of the properties it had in GT2. So it definitely sleeper who can wake up at any time. And eat YOU:sly:
     
  12. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    I must say I've enjoyed this car since the GT2 days and still do. As previously discussed with Monty, the Nismo version of the Stagea was awesome as well. Ahh the memories... Well let's see if I can find the COTW crew and/or info on where they're racing!

    Asking one of the locals if he's seen any more cars like mine...

    [​IMG]

    Nope, they're not on the patio...

    [​IMG]

    Man, I hope this is the right way...

    [​IMG]

    Well if I don't get really lost, I'll try and let you know what happened!

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
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  13. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    1998 Nissan Stagea-RS Autech

    1Syracuse.jpg
    Yes, it's a station wagon, but it does have a little wing on the back.

    My first thought was, another station wagon :indiff: and then I drove her :) That was almost as much fun as I ever had in a station wagon, almost. Remember that Pontiac with the 455 I mentioned the last time we tested a wagon? Well, I had this girl friend back then...
    Nürburgring Nordschleife.jpg
    I think this is the same spot I nearly lost it the last time we tested a wagon, you would think I would learn.

    This one comes in at 276hp/417pp and was so much fun to drive she would make you forget you were in a wagon. Body roll was surprisingly minimal for a car this size, probably due to the upgraded suspension (stock) and her width. Braking was sufficient thanks to Brembo. The trans, other than 4th being a bit tall and long to 5th, wasn't too shabby on the track either. As one would expect, she pushed a bit, but I found it easy enough to break the rear loose to counter that providing you had enough track to the outside to make it work.
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_2.jpg
    Drifting the night away...at the Nurb.

    Since we took the last wagon to the Nurb I figured I would do the same here. Even though I didn't find the stock CS tires very confidence inspiring I was able to take nearly 7 full seconds off my lap the second time around.
    Nurburgring Nordschleife TT, best of two laps:
    8:50.383
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_3.jpg
    There was plenty of smokin' and four wheel sliding going on around the ring in this car.

    Nurburgring Nordschleife 5 laps vs Pro AI:
    Finish: P2, Total time: 18:00.528, best lap: 8:51.478
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_4.jpg
    Coming into the back of the course on the first lap all that stood between me and the Garaiya in P1 was a Skyline GTR, a Mercedes SL 500, a bunch of twisties and too much time!
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_6.jpg
    I had passed to my two adversaries a few turns before the straight, but they battled back on the long stretch. The Skyline used me as a pick against the Merc who I barely kept behind me.
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_7.jpg
    I got back by the Skyline early in lap two and had pretty much given up hope at P1 which by this point was 27+ seconds up. I was just worried about gapping the Skyline and Merc enough to keep them behind me on that long back stretch before the end of the race. I ended up outdriving them enough that by the time I got to the twisty section on lap two I at least didn't have to drive in my mirrors. I even managed to close the gap to P1 to under 16 seconds and at one point even saw her tail lights, but once she hit that long straight she was gone leaving me with the second step on the podium...not bad for a wagon :tup:

    If I have time later this week I wouldn't mind tuning her up a bit, somewhere around 460pp or so. That would get close to the Audi wagon and make a good comparison. Anyway, this one certainly a sleeper. She's a wagon after all and beat a Skyline GTR around the Nurb, what more needs to be said :)
     
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  14. Zenmervolt

    Zenmervolt

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    I just keep thinking of this:

     
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  15. JackRyanWMU

    JackRyanWMU

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    We've gone from GTO and Mustang all the way to a Neon, and now a station wagon. Based on the current trend, I'm half-expecting we'll have to test a minivan next week. :p
     
  16. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Don't tempt us. :lol:
    I know a few potential candidates for that role. :sly:
     
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  17. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    I will tell you one thing, there are two types of people most likely to try and beat me off the line when I am out cruising in the Jag...pick up trucks and minivans. Seriously, I don't know what is wrong with people sometimes. I guess the trucks think they have a big motor so they must be fast, maybe they need to learn the difference between fast and quick. It's not like the XJS is a stop light dragster either, she's big and heavy, but she does have a V-12. As for the minivans? I don't know, there must be something about minivans that just make people crazy :crazy:
     
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  18. JackRyanWMU

    JackRyanWMU

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    Considering the number of minivans I've gotten stuck behind who are plodding at 45 MPH and yet still are weaving back and forth over the lane before they slam on their brakes to make a turn, waiting to the last second before they put on the turn signal.....I do not doubt for a second that minivan drivers have more than a few screws loose.

    In fact, if I was in charge, I would probably make a law so willingly buying a minivan would automatically result in losing one's driver's license. Ditto for Smart cars (they should be called Dumb cars). :p
     
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  19. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    Hardly anyone is testing this car...really...ya'll are missing out, she's a blast to drive. I got her tuned up and will probably be out at the Nurb this afternoon for another run :tup:
     
  20. sagaper

    sagaper

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    Want to share the tune?
     
  21. JackRyanWMU

    JackRyanWMU

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    Circle The Wagons!
    1998 Nissan Stagea 260RS AutechVersion
    vs.
    2003 Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 3.0R

    [​IMG]

    For being of such similar PP rating, these two cars could hardly be different in the way they go about things. The Nissan makes more power with its turbocharged engine and has the tacky styling cues of an aero kit and rear wing that teenage boys (and teenage boys at heart) are wild for. The Subaru makes up for less power from its naturally aspirated boxer by being significantly lighter, while its styling gives no hint of being capable of harder driving than required to pick up the kids from Little League practice.

    [​IMG]

    But for their differences, the All Wheel Drive systems in both cars did tend towards predictable understeer, and trying to make these heavy machines rotate through the corners would quickly remind anyone that they're driving a wagon, not a sports car. To its credit, the Stagea (a car that deserves a place in the "Nonsense Names" Hall of Fame alongside "Lumina" and "Corolla") did have more dynamic handling, even allowing its rear end to slip out with enough effort for some pleasing slides through the turns.

    [​IMG]

    The Legacy on the other hand was intent on keeping up its "sensible family hauler" appearance and would not display any such theatrics. It was still very easy to handle around the track, and its naturally aspirated engine provided a more pleasing note than the Nissan's "Eggbeater on Steroids" soundtrack.

    [​IMG]

    At the end of the lapping sessions, the difference between these cars on the time board was marginal, the Stagea's 1:20.120 just edging out the Legacy's best effort of 1:20.965. The Nissan was a little more fun to drive, and definitely earns a "Sleeper" award. However, given the choice between these two cars, I would opt for the Legacy with its less boxy, more grown-up styling and its 15,000 credit smaller price tag.

    [​IMG]

    I would then put the Legacy on "Daily Driver" duty and use those 15,000 credits towards buying a rear-wheel drive sports car for the track. As respectable as what these wagons are on the raceway, at the end of the day I would still prefer to be lapping in a pony car or a roadster rather than these two grocery-getters.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
  22. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    Nissan Stagea part 2

    Nürburgring Nordschleife.jpg

    With all the bolt-ons, a set of SH tires and a close ratio gearbox the Stagea came in at 389hp/462pp. The weight split was far from ideal so I put 100Kg all the way to the back bringing it to a 51/49 - front/rear split and cutting the pp to 457. Nürburgring Nordschleife_1.jpg

    stock: 276hp/417pp
    tuned: 389hp/457pp
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_2.jpg
    Nurburgring Nordschleife TT:
    stock: 8:50.393
    tuned: 8:18.161
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_3.jpg
    I was able to knock over 30 seconds off my time with the mild tune. Evening up the weight really made her slide around and the push was much more pronounced with the additional power. The SH tires kept the rear well planted so I couldn't just cut it loose to counter-act the push. The Stagea felt more like a wagon, or at least, like a larger, heavier car with the tune than stock as well. She was still a fun ride, she just needed to be handled differently than the stock version.
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_4.jpg
    She's a fire breathing wagon :D
    Nürburgring Nordschleife_5.jpg
    @sagaper I'm not one to spend hours on tunes just for tenths at the track. I usually put a mild tune on street cars: just the bolt-ons, up the tires one notch and occasionally add some ballast and position it to even up the distribution like I did here. If I want to get serious about a track car I will put on a full custom trans and fine tune it to the car/track combo, but with most road cars (if needed, and most do) I simply put on a close ratio box and leave it at that.
     
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  23. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    Congratulations sagaper!
    Agreed, but it was so much fun to drive. More fun, perhaps, than an actual Skyline.

    So tell us, what do you have in store for us this week?

    1987 Honda Mugen Motul Civic Si!

    [​IMG]
    What is with this Japanese obsession? Is it like Hotel California, you can check in but you can't check out? Perhaps it's a VTEC addiction...

    Before you ask, yes, racecars are acceptable... just not recommended. Luckily this is a hatchback, so hauling groceries won't be a problem. Think of it as a station wagon with stunted growth...

     
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  24. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Let me add a cherry to this cake, I won't be there this week due to the place I go to too search for work having the Monday off which means I'm going in on Wednesday. :rolleyes:

    On the plus side, a nice choice for this weeks battle @sagaper :tup:
     
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  25. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Racing in a race car this week, eh? After reading the car description, there should be little to no competition against me in this first race... Let's see what happens!

    Meeting my first set of victims...
    [​IMG]

    Catching up to... me??? This can't be right!
    [​IMG]

    Six competitors down, one to go...
    [​IMG]

    Muahahaha, excellent!
    [​IMG]

    Well, I'm liking this Civic so far, but can I repeat these race results on Tuesday??? History has shown it's never that easy, unless they run out of gas! :D

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
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  26. Chrunch Houston

    Chrunch Houston Premium

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    eh, race car.
     
  27. sirjim73

    sirjim73

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    This car used to rule on GT5, except they never allowed it to take part in the Civic seasonals which was unfair as I wanted easy money :mischievous:

    Anyway, being a red 2008 Type R owner myself (european hatchback version which they cheated me out of by including the japanese saloon version instead :() there can only be one answer to the question this week.

    Sleeper of course! Except it's too good for sleeping :lol:
     
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  28. MustangManiac

    MustangManiac Premium

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    1987 Honda Mugen Motul Civic Si

    Gemasolar.jpg
    Another wagon, Japanese, but she's a race car :tup:
    She weighs in at 221hp/433pp, not a bad power value for so little horse power. That being the case. I decided to take her out to Suzuka, the short course. Suzuka Circuit East Course.jpg
    Oh look, race cars...
    Suzuka East TT, best of 5 laps:
    0:54.868
    Suzuka Circuit East Course_1.jpg
    ...and more race cars!
    Suzuka East 5 laps vs pro ai:
    Finish - P2 / best lap 0:55.031 / total time 4:45.101

    Suzuka Circuit East Course_2.jpg
    Side drafting a V-Dub down that long front stretch.
    Unfortunately there wasn't much of a fight here even with a few other race cars in the mix. I was in P5 by the start of lap 2 and took P4 in the first corner. P3 and P2 fell without too much drama, but at least raced me a bit through the esses on lap 3.

    Suzuka Circuit East Course_3.jpg
    This Toyota put the sqeeze play on me through the esses...
    Suzuka Circuit East Course_4.jpg
    ...good thing the Honda was small enough to squeeze trough.
    At this point with 2.5 laps to go I found myself down by 19 seconds to the Spoon S2000 in P1. The little Spoon was too quick to catch and I finished at P2 -16.5 seconds.
    x20140421_124018.jpg
    Just because we took all the other wagons to the Nurb I decided to try her out there also. I ended up taking the number 1 spot of our COTW candidates even beating out the tuned Buick GNX with a time of 7:55.952.
    About the only place she suffered was at the top end, it was hard to find the limiter in 4th gear unless you were heading downhill and 5th gear just didn't pull from there at all. Top speed I saw down the back stretch was 136, slower than the stock Stagea at 144.
    Hard to make a call as to beater or sleeper, she's a race car after all. The little Spoon S2000 kicked my butt at Suzuka, but the Honda took the top spot at the Nurb. I big track like that finds her limits though, there just isn't enough motor there. She sure was fun throwing around the ring though :)
     
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  29. Streeto

    Streeto

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    It's a hatchback, not a wagon. Wagons have 5 doors.

    :p
     
  30. Zenmervolt

    Zenmervolt

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    [​IMG]
    Because sometimes the little brat in the back seat deserves to be made carsick.

    It's been an unexpectedly busy week and the rush of Easter and family obligations has me running behind. Of course, in the Stagea 260RS AutechVersion that's not so bad. Gives you an excuse to push the car hard.

    I've always been a fan of wagons; all the room of an SUV without the "canoe-full-of-water-on-stilts" handling dynamic. Properly set up a wagon can be a lot of fun and the Autech is definitely properly set up.

    [​IMG]
    Good ol' Streets of Willow.

    On paper, the Autech has the numbers to absolutely fly, but on the first straight at Streets she just doesn't seem to want to get up and go. Blame the tall gears in the stock 5-speed box, and the car's 3,792 pound curb weight. Running around the track at 8/10ths or even 9/10ths reveals a predictable and easily placed chassis with good turn-in. Impressive really, considering the weight, but a bit boring.


    Push the car just the last bit harder though and she absolutely comes alive. Throw in just a bit too much yaw under braking and you can bring the back end out smartly, but not to worry. Just stand on the throttle and the all-wheel-drive system will use the front wheels to claw you back through the corner and keep everything facing in the proper direction.

    [​IMG]
    Just like this.

    This is a car that just loves being chucked roughly into a corner and then told to pull itself through the exit by sheer will (and scrabbling front tires). I honestly cannot recall the last time I drove a car that encouraged this much sheer hooliganism.

    At the end of the day, the best time I managed around Streets of Willow was a 1:25.870 with the car's stock setup. Not nearly as fast as I'd expected from a car with the better part of 280 horsepower, but even with the lackluster lap times I can't be upset with the car. It's just plain fun.

    [​IMG]
    Plus it looks really good in a Lamborghini yellow.

    Between the spoiler, body kit, wheels, and lap times that are handily beaten by cars with much less power I can't in good conscience call this car a sleeper. At least, not in the conventional sense. What this car needs is a new definition of "sleeper." One that doesn't focus on surprising performance numbers but rather on a frankly mind-boggling amount of fun from an unexpected source. It needs that new definition of sleeper because I'm sure as hell not going to call a car that is this much fun a beater.

    Specs:

    Displacement: 2,568 cc
    Power: 280 hp @ 6,800 RPM
    Torque: 271 ft-lbs @ 4,400 RPM
    Weight: 3,792 pounds

    Top Speed: 153 mph (as measured at la Sarthe, without chicanes)

    Gallery: https://imgur.com/a/ePdyx/all
     
    Baron Blitz Red likes this.