Beater or Sleeper? GT6 Car of the Week Thread

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by McClarenDesign, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. zotobom

    zotobom

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    Pff. The name is cooler than the car itself.

    Basically,get a Civic that's always stuck in last gear and it'd be pretty similar to this
     
  2. photonrider

    photonrider Premium

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    You are a riot, Baron. And a good ad man - take it from me, a former Creative Director.
    I experimented on my 14 year-old last night, quoting various tobacco brands (without telling him they were tobacco brands) and asking him whether he recognised them - No - for Marlboro, B & H, Dunhill, or even makes from the same manufacturer, Lucky Strike, Camels, Pall Mall - not a clue. Then I said 'Du Maurier?' and he had a faint glimmer - 'Are you talking about cigarettes?'
    Smoking is heavily censured in Canada - the government foots the health bill and smoking-related illness takes a heavy swipe at the trough. No advertising is permitted. Packs are kept in closed cabinets in the shops. Many public areas are 'No smoking' zones.
    So schoolkids here have a minimum exposure to it. 'Du Maurier' is a very popular brand here and sometimes some careless smoker will throw an empty pack on the street and is one of he few ways a minor would actually see a pack.
    I grew up withe the Marlboro man - he was between the covers of every mag.
    And, yeah, when I smoked Marlboro (don't smoke at all now) it was a great cigarette. Pure smoking pleasure. And deadly. Too bad.
    The fact that tobacco sponsors were pulled from the sport hurt the sport, though. Sure the techno sponsors (and media time slots) are filling in the gap, but tobacco had a lot of money that racing crews all depended on, and the the life of the sport depended on. If tobacco sponsors advertised something else - Cancer Research? Put some money where it belongs? - it would be more appropriate, wouldn't it?
    Smokeless exhaust systems would be very appropriate, too, in guiding minors (if they ever watch the sport anyway) to wards the fact that Marboro makes Racing Exhausts and not just cigarettes.
    That 'Zen' photo from McClarenDesign says it all about the spectacle that is (also) motorsports.
    Buddha jumped over the wall for Marboro Colts.
    Sounds like a koan.


    Add: Will photon actually win a race and traumatise everybody? :lol:

    Another oddity last night while hanging out in McClarenDesigns' 'Relaxed' room.
    Ted was voting with us. Or mocking us. I don't know'.

    S-sch-schi - shiver me timbers!
    *shivers

    The Lantis was a terrible tail dragger - they should not make long-wheelbase tail-draggers. FF cars are great in snow - they work really well here in Canada, but long wheelbase FFs tend to fishtail and get stuck, while SWBs scoot around like rabbits. After the Lantis (which of course was the bomb once loaded with power and weighted right, good enough for me to thrash the LFA at the Seasonals) I think we need a little bit of kick-ass in a compact, sporty FF that screams "Look! I'm not a sleeper! Cyborg! That's my name! Resistance is futile! Give up now. Bah! Civic! Bull! Come at me bro! Grrrr!" and it says all this with a known dynamo of an engine and a great bunch of other bells and whistles IRL. The virtual car is no slouch either, in stock or tuned. One of my have-to FF compacts in my Garage.
    As for 'the King of hot hatches' are we talking Japanese only? :D You have not driven the 2CV yet.
    Talking about the FTO - it was my first car in GT5. What a machine for its class. Iconic. :tup:
    And then there is the Super Touring version. :crazy:

    _______________

    The COTW races tonight are going to be hot and bothered especially if those Mirages start rubbing haunches - it's a dogfight in close quarters.
    Letting it loose at the HSR last night netted me a 131 mph flat out.
    Higher speeds may be possible. ;)

    The only thing that can spook tonight's show is Ted.

    :scared:
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  3. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Then we share something in common... I was a former Account Manager and part owner of a small Advertising/Graphic Design agency. :cool:

    Cheers
     
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  4. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Wow, @photonrider, I wasn't expecting a long, extensive answer like that. :eek: Very thorough. :tup:

    So long-wheelbase cars can fishtail often? Chalk one up for my "things I learned today" list. It'll help in the future (hint, hint). If the Lantis was more balanced and more edgy, it would be a great car. But it tries to play the confort\sporty hybrid too much and fails at doing both. If only... As for the Cyborg (should've called it "Gundam"), it is a great little car. The only problem is that the Honda Civic Type R EK is simply better (and edgier). Honda knows how to make a FF car feel like a race car, that is what makes the Type Rs so fearsome. :bowdown: The Mitsu comes very close, that is quite the feat for a car with more "bells and whistles" (as you put it) that can actually be confortable. Did you drive one in real life?

    I did say "'90's hot hatches", so that would be accura... Schmit, I forgot that the 2CV only went out of production in the early '90s! Damm! Then I guess I must drive the 2CV... :lol:

    Yeah, that FTO is quite the machine. It is the Mirage to the Civic's Integra Type R. I really like it. And I also really need to drive the Super Touring version too, apparently. :scared:
     
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  5. nickg07

    nickg07

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    I've always preferred tomacco myself!

    But a lot of iconic imagery is adorned with tobacco sponsors you can't buy that coverage for a dollar.
     
  6. NixxxoN

    NixxxoN (Banned)

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    This little car is one of the fastest @ low PP range, around 400-450
     
  7. JackRyanWMU

    JackRyanWMU

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    Funny that I can still remember, but this was my first car way back in Gran Turismo 1. I can even recall that it was white. Didn't seem like it was near as expensive as the 19k credits required to reunite me with my first first GT car though. Apparently inflation is a thing even in the realm of cyber auto racing!
     
  8. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    Baron, photon... can you guys figure out a way for me to sell my soul? Caterham is up for grabs, and I gotta make my move now!
     
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  9. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Value for money, the Mirage is now a neo-classic, so you gotta fork over the cash man. :lol:
     
  10. Kurei

    Kurei

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    Hoping to get around to a thorough test of the Mitsu, either tomorrow or Thursday, work week hasn't been kind thus far.

    Plenty of input here by others though :tup:
     
  11. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    Souls are easy to sell... consciences are a different matter altogether! ;) Know this... I will help in any way I can.

    Cheers
     
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  12. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    I've never taken a standard car to my Laguna Seca testing grounds, because it's been reserved for Premium cars only. I just wanted to see how the Mirage compared.

    On CH tires, its best time was a 1:56.0

    Cars that did 1:59.9 include the '07 Mini Cooper S and of course the '97 Honda Civic Type R.

    More proof that the Mirage and CTR are basically the same car.

    The Corvette C2 '63 managed a 1:56.0 as well.
     
  13. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    @SuzukaStar , you confused me for a minute with Civic Type R being shortened down to CTR. For me the CTR will always be from RUF and considering that it was a world record holder, it might confuse a lot more than just me.

    Cheers
     
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  14. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Interesting results, Suzuka. It seems that the EK (not calling it CTR, it confuses poor @Baron Blitz Red) and the Cyborg are pretty well matched. That Mirage... It's a tricky car for me to describe properly, I was expecting something more lardy and understeer-y, but that is not quite the case, eh?
     
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  15. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    It's definitely more understeery than the EK (better, Baron? :)) but not by much. See the stats:


    Honda
    176 hp / 8,000 rpm
    117 ft-lb / 7,500 rpm
    1,050 kg (2,315 lb)
    390 pp

    Mitsubishi
    171 hp / 7,500 rpm
    123 ft-lb / 7,000 rpm
    1,060 kg (2,337 lb)
    387 pp

    The Honda reaches peak power and torque 500 rpm later than the Mirage. It has 5 more hp, but 6 fewer ft-lbs. Lastly, it weighs 10 kg less. Tough choice, but not when you consider the aftermarket potential of the Honda. Far superior to the Mitsu's.
     
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  16. photonrider

    photonrider Premium

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    Dang. I was right. I still have that eye for talent; was always known in the industry to have it. :) :tup:

    Jeez, is your soul the only asset you have? Any pots and pans you need to get rid of? You'll flub this (probably only) chance to get that set of wheels.

    Civics have great resale value.
    It's also part of a certain cultural schtick - some people wouldn't be seen dead in one.
    However - try to find a Mirage in decent condition - I doubt many buyers will part with one that's been maintained.
    Please prove me wrong so that the Civic once again takes the pedestal for King of the Japanese compacts and this now-you-see-it now-you-don't usurper is thrown down.
     
  17. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    So the ultimate deciding factor is the Premium status... How ironic, considering that is the same factor that kills the GTO in comparison with the Skylines and RX7s. However, the FTO does not that disadvantage, considering that some (stupid) mind thought the Integra was not deserving of Premium status... PD! (cue comical sountrack and credits)

    Also, damm, @photonrider, you really want the Mirage ousted from its throne huh? Don't worry, that is one outcome I am planning on saying. No matter how good the Mirage is, it's still not good enough to beat a Civic Type R. Not in a million years...
     
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  18. photonrider

    photonrider Premium

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    Well the challenge is still on - I guess we can put some stock Civics and Mirages together for a battle, eh? The Online Lobbies beckon . . . :lol:

    Raced the Mirage last night, and this car definitely smokes the road with what it has under the hood.
    Now if only the couch potato who was racing last night with us could keep his Gran Punto from seemingly being magnetised into knocking us off course every time we were overtaking . . . .


    Here's what happened when I thrashed it (bone stock) against a bunch of other FFs:

    [​IMG]

    Obviously I'll be going after Battaglia again - and it's not a Civic I'm afeared of.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
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  19. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Well I was going to originally start this write up with the car, but our ghost in the machine Ted Thomas had other ideas. :lol:

    So I'll cut to the chase, Jack DID win another race. :cheers:
    It was also the return of my British sparring partner and recently crowned world champion (not really :p) @Lewis_Hamilton_ to the COTW funhouse.

    On the subject of the funhouse, it was quite full this week, we had a full lobby which I don't think has happened before at COTW. :eek:

    Admittedly, Jacks win was helped by the fact that the servers had a "minor" panic attack on lap 1 and quite a few were hit, myself, Lewis and Photon included, and the aforementioned couch potato running interference. :D

    Having said that, he still earned that win in a former COTW choice, the 07' MX5.

    The mirage definitely felt light on its feet and I could see why @McClarenDesign liked it, compared to its rival of the night and another former COTW choice(s) the Toyota Sprinter/Levin, it's 2hp down but also down 20kg with a shorter wheel base.

    So the Mirage for me is a Sleeper, a good first car (Honda Fit doesn't count :sly:) with good tuning potential.


    I have figured out what to call this chapter,

    The Ghosts of COTW Past :lol:
     
  20. photonrider

    photonrider Premium

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    At this juncture I have to admit - yup, sleeper. Long way from it being a beater. In fact not a safe car to lend the nervous ninny who's offered to go fetch the milk.

    As for Ted . . . OMG. :scared: COTW is no graveyard . . . but it most certainly is haunted.

    BBL.
     
  21. Baron Blitz Red

    Baron Blitz Red

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    This Mirage is no Illusion...
    This week we look at the 1997 Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR!

    [​IMG]

    If you've played Gran Turismo, you've probably driven this car before. I own all the major releases of the game, and I'm pretty sure its been in all of them except for GT3. As for myself, the last time I owned one was in GT2, so I was pleased to give it another go.

    [​IMG]

    Apparently I wasn't alone either. As previously stated in other posts, we had a record turnout last night and I've never seen so many of the same car on a GT6 grid before. All 16 spots were filled in at least one race for sure. Pretty cool!

    [​IMG]

    After dropping just over 19,000 credits for my car dressed in Pyrenees Black Pearl, I gave it the obligatory oil change and a new set of wheels. That gets this 1,060kg car up to 393pp, with 180hp. There are a bunch of cars that fit as competition for the Mirage, and quite a few have been mentioned already by others here. As for the real world version, I found this article which does its own comparisons...

    http://asia.vtec.net/side/cyborg/

    I like it tbh. In my mind it's no Beater, and with its unassuming looks, decent power and pick up I would also give it a Sleeper badge. Rather easy to handle, it did pretty well over a variety of courses that we raced it on. Not too bad for a FF car, and I'm curious to see what it can do with some bolt-on parts added on.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers
     
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  22. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Hey @Baron Blitz Red, I found that Asia VTEC link too! Back when I did some research on the Mirage. Guess it is the best source of info for it too. :lol: Also, pretty good turnout, good to see full-grid races on GT6's online world. :gtpflag:
     
  23. Kurei

    Kurei

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    Buying a Mirage as I type, hoping to have something by tomorrow or Friday at the latest.

    Though from what I've read here, it sounds like I should be in for a decent drive :tub:
     
  24. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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    Until my daughter is capable of obtaining a dowry, yes, it is.
     
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  25. Kurei

    Kurei

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    Well, I'll start off by saying it is definitely a Mitsubishi, it loves abuse and will take it without skipping a beat. :lol:

    Redline. Shift. Redline. Shift. Redline. Brake. Shiftdown. Turn. Settle. Throttle. Redline. Shift.

    As others have said, it packs a surprising punch for what otherwise looks to be a mundane people-mover. But then again, its got 'dat 1,000+ft-lb of torque' :p.

    But seriously, I spend most of my time driving modified & tuned versions of cars in GT, and rarely bother to thrash a stock-stock car around a track with my free-time. Having gone from Sport tires to the CS tires on the Cyborg, I was rather impressed how well it held its track, even at-speed. And the weight-transfer ?, heck that was like a roller-coaster ride, my tuned cars usually corner much flater, so that was an interesting re-experience. My definition of 'Sleeper' is that of the street-racing variety, something that looks stock but performs well beyond expectations. While this Mitsu' does punch above its weight, I find myself conflicted to call it a 'Sleeper' since its not been modified at all, A stock "High performer" maybe, 'top-of-the-line' they say - but its not like its actually packing that 1,000+ tq rating.

    This is more of a 'Sleeper' in my eye.
     
  26. Kurei

    Kurei

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    Double-post from my internet :irked:
     
  27. McClarenDesign

    McClarenDesign Premium

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  28. devilracer1987

    devilracer1987

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    There was a Mitsi Mirage 1.6 for sale here about 3 months ago. I was going to save for it but it sold the next day. Perfect condition with full service history. Sold for a massive $3,500NZD.

    The one in GT6 isn't on the same wavelength as the Hondas but it does have its own charm. I have owned one in every GT game I have owned. Since GT1. It's always my first car (except GT6 obviously :p ).

    I like the car. Still it's a beater. The Hondas just out perform it.
     
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  29. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    I dunno, less than a tenth of a second between the Mirage and EK Type R at Laguna Seca doesn't give me a sense that one is better than the other. In real life maybe, but GT6 logic dictates that they're basically identical.
     
  30. Niku Driver HC

    Niku Driver HC

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    Bewildering Mirage: The story of the Mitsubishi Mirage ZR
    Wow, it has been a while since I did one of these, eh? "Author's block", some might say, but I prefer the term "finding the non-lazy spot". I've seen so many good cars I passed by while seeing this thread, including one of my personal favorites: The Mitsubishi Galant VR-4. Boy I felt stupid when I found out about that one...

    But that is besides the point. And speaking of Mitsubishis...

    City of Arts and Sciences - Night.jpg
    Mitsubishi Mirage ZR '97. Codename: "Milly"
    Meet Milly, my personal Mirage. And boy, do I have the story to tell you about her...

    It all started when Mr. Mcclaren announced that the next COTW was going to be our friend Milly here. He did it quite smoothly by introducing a image of several Marlboro-sponsored Mirages. Well played, my American friend, well played. And now it is time for a history lesson people, so buckle up...

    upload_2014-12-7_15-59-43.jpeg
    Milly's life started quite early in Mitsubishi's history. Created as a rival to Honda's own Civic, the Mirage's life dates back all the way to the 70's. In fact, her life is continuing as we speak, since her name can now be found on the back of a underwhelming, poorly-made cheap Indian car. Car which somehow is being sold in Europe under the name of Space Star, and was also recently elected by Top Gear as one of the worst cars being sold today. Not the most rewarding of lifes, but what can you do. In other countries, Milly here is known as Colt (which was also the reason why Ford had to ditch that name when they tried to use it for the Capri), a good name for several things:

    • Pistols;
    • Cars;
    • Colt Cabana...
    So there you go, Milly's life in a nutshell. So what is this incarnation of Milly? Well, this is sporty Milly, the Cyborg ZR. In the high-paced Japanese car industry of the 90's, all brands were trying their hardest to come up with the sportiest cars for their car ranges. Cars like, you know, that Lantis we tested recently. However, this Mitsu had a much juicier target in sight. None other than the Honda Civic Type R.

    upload_2014-12-7_16-10-4.jpeg
    "THE Type R!? Insanity!", you might say. The greatest Japanese hot hatch in history, the fearsome track weapon of Honda, powered by a high-revving heart pumped full of VTEC vitamins. Mitsubishi created a hot car and aimed it at the highest possible point. But Milly doesn't quite back down in fear of such a daring task. In fact, the way she handles it was the most confusing point of this entire story.

    The Mirage is not your average FF car. Most companies would not bother tuning the car to the point of corner cleaving, leaving their cars with an undesirable amount of understeer. But Milly is a remarkably good hot-hatch. The short wheelbase leaves most of the understeer out of the door. And even the little amount that is left can be easily controlable by either lifting the throttle or by pushing it further. Came in too late and your trajectory is getting wide? Lift the throttle and let the car get back in line. Came in too early? Push the car more and use the understeer to your advantage. It's truly remarkable how well Milly went around the Twin Ring Motegi East course. And that takes us to the next point of Milly's story: How well does she match up to its greatest competitor?

    upload_2014-12-7_16-21-6.jpeg
    Okay, bad news first: Milly lost against the Civic EK. It was obvious, but I'll tell you why in a second. However, she came really close to beat it, and that is without a doubt the most confusing point of her history. I could call her a Beater because she didn't beat the car she was meant to beat in the first place. On the other hand, the fact that she did get so close despite the bells and whistles she clearly was forced to have, not to mention the fact that she also beat my time with the Toyota Sprinter Trueno BZ-R prove worthy of a Sleeper status.

    In the end, there many good reasons to call Milly a Beater, but there are also even more reasons to call her a Sleeper. The Mirage is a great beginner's car, provided you can live without a cockpit view. Yes, Milly's weakest point against the Civic is the lack of Premium status, status which means you add all the parts you want to make the Civic your own car. With the Mirage, you're limited to some rims, new paint and PD's trademark "1980's Vauxhall Viva tuner castoff spoilers". Milly was the most confusing car I have ever driven, finding a place for her was very difficult.

    The reason why she lost to the Type R is actually very simple:

    The Mirage is 100% track focused. The Honda is 120% focused.

    Keichi Tsuchiya once said that Type Rs are "race cars with license plates". Milly is a pretty face, but the Civic is a brawler that doesn't mind lacking bells and whistles. And this is why the Type R's dynasty is the greatest FF dynasty in road car world.

    As for Milly, despite all the confusion and the thinking, we became friends. In fact, borrowing an expression from the anime series "The Big O":

    "We have come to terms."

    upload_2014-12-7_16-33-19.jpeg
    Pros:
    • Eager engine;
    • Remarkably solid, driver-friendly handling.
    Cons:
    • The Honda Civic Type R is a sharper track tool;
    • Engine needed more oomph to keep up with more powerful rivals;
    • Hope you can live without a cockpit view...
    Final Verdict: Sleeper -The Mirage might not be the Civic-killer that Mitsubishi had hoped for, but it still is a very good hot-hatch all things considered. Just beware of the less powerful engine and the lack of graphical detail when buying one...


     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014