Beauty Contest: Gran Turismo Sport vs Forza Motorsport 7

[mikotoP]

What? Like drifting at 180mph at every corner? LOL! You're trying way too hard dude.

haha, that's way too much, I didn't mean that, just when compared to GTS and other hard core racing games with more realistic physics.

 

[ImaRobot]

Those details exist because a lot of people view, examine, admire and take photos of these cars, often getting in super close, admiring all the details. You should know ImaRobot, since you literally have three thread galleries dedicated to Forza Photo mode shots in your signature. Funny that

Where did I discredit those details? I was merely commenting on the situation at hand and what people are pushing with these photo comparisons.

As for my photo galleries, those issues that people are trying to portray here are almost non existent in all but the most zoomed in situations. I'm talking in a way that no person would actually take a picture in most cases. I do Amit that's that MX5 is looking ugly regardless lol, but very much like GT, it varies from car to car.

 

[markwang]

I've been playing Forza and GT since their first titles and GTS' lack of content and Forza's huge selection of cars and track variation still applies to me. Lack of content is still lack of content. You're referring to a lack of new content, which is different. Motorsport falls into a very interesting category of sports games because we don't have a title that resembles the yearly releases of FIFA, MLB, NBA, NHL games, etc. Those games tend to have incremental changes and many people opt to pass up on every-other year's title to maximize the amount of "changes" in each iteration. This does not apply Forza and surely does not apply to GT at all. Sports games don't tend to rack up the number of players in the game or the amount of venues. Forza has more cars than any Forza game and has more laser-scanned tracks than any Forza game. And remember, we are still only on the first month of its launch. There's plenty more to come.



That's called comparing content - which game has more of this and that, and what game has less of this and that.




And yet it still outnumbers the amount of tracks in GTS by a substantial amount. You're saying you'd rather get a new studio apartment every 2 years than to add an additional room to your house; get rid of everything before it and give us something new than to develop something we already have and make it grow.



I'm sorry, but are you saying that you spent a whole day going through people's leaderboard times and noted what tunes they used? Even then, it only shows who it was tuned by, not the individual tune, so how do you know they're all using the same tunes? Even if you did that, how do you know the reasoning behind their decision to use that tune? Did you send a PM to each individual XBL account asking them why they picked that tune? This sentence of yours is so confusing to me and I'm trying to understand what you're saying. Check out the leaderboards for the Nurburgring, Road Atlanta, Lime Rock and Laguna Seca; and you'll find me in the Top 5 within multiple divisions. I tune the cars myself and each tune is catered to the individual track. For someone with multiple top 5 spots, my tunes collectively have been downloaded less than 10 times as of writing this, so the idea that people are just using the top fastest tunes doesn't actually resemble what I'm seeing.




You can tune your car at spec-races as long as they meet class requirements. I've competed in many of them in my time and still do to this day.



GT Sport > Forza because GT Sport has some Toyotas and Lexus - this is your argument? 0.o
Have....have you even looked at FM7's car list? I mean...just glance at it dude. Believe me, you won't be disappointed, especially since almost all the cars in GT Sport are actually in it!



Don't the VGT cars take up a large amount of the roster? Like, a really large amount of the roster? Forza Horizon 3 had a Warthog, but it didn't have a ton of fake cars in it. This becomes a problem when you have such a small list of cars - even small things make up big numbers in the %.



So you're buying the same cars in FM7 as you did in FM6? Is that what you're saying? Apart from some of the race cars in GTS, FM7 has all the cars GTS has - and then 600 other ones. Didn't the last GT game come out 4 years ago? You're saying we should be grateful it doesn't share a car list with GT6? I'm so confused...



Talking about tracks like Laguna Seca? Spa? Monza? COTA? Yas Marina? Mugello? Sonoma? Silverstone?

Of course you recognize the tracks - it's cause they're real life circuits. Again, you're saying we should be happy that GTS didn't give us something? You must love Porsche 911's. I hear charging more for less is their modus operandi.



It shows your clear lack of understanding in regards to the definition of content.



More cars and more tracks specifically give you more things to do in the game. What on Earth are you on about?



It shows that they put a lot of effort into realistic graphics.

GTS --> Lack of content --> That's right.
FM7 --> Super long campaign mode --> They're boring.
Add hundreds of races just like the ones in FM7 is not a hard challenge. The things is that it's really boring and suffering.

 

[Toysuprahot]

Ok, you're doing a pretty bad job at explaining why, though.


Than it makes it even all the more funny how inaccurate that was.

Mind you telling me how am I inaccurate in saying that there seems to be no effort at all to throw a 200km/h car in a drift and perfectly control it

Actually, it's not about physics at all. I've worked with the lads at Turn 10 before as an advisor and the data from our car's telemetry around the same circuit was almost identical through the corners. There's a huge difference between physics and input/feedback, but I've noticed that many people tend to mistake the two.

The fact that you can drift the Hoonigan Mustang around Long Beach with an XBox One controller isn't a result of poor physics, but rather it's the result of great input integration. The guys over at Turn 10 spend a long time 'fine tuning' how cars handle with a controller. All those controller settings you see in titles like pCars 2 - yeah, there's a ton of elements in this equation. Even with all those choices, you're going to have a really hard time finding a setting that feels as smooth and natural like how it does in Forza Motorsport. It's much easier when the physics doesn't have that many numbers to crunch based on your input (steer left, car goes left); but when there are a ton of factors involved, such as weight, springs, shocks, brakes, engine, etc., things get really complicated. FM is just really good at taking all that complicated stuff and making it easy enough for a child to use. So you see, it's not a matter of physics after all.

In my opinion, this is a huge achievement.

From the footage I've seen, there are some wrong elements regardless of how you implement it. When in a drift, the wheels seem to transition without any friction and situation of the track (angle) and smoothly so that you'll always be able to drift no matter where.

Furthermore, when you drift and you accidentally take the corner with too much rotation momentum, that's a point of no return, no matter what counter steer or acceleration you put in, I've almost never seen this effect happen in Forza, on the opposite, even at very high speed, people have no problem whatsoever to throw their cars at incredible angle and the car seems to respond more to the steering you put than to the normally point of no return you're in.

Another thing I rarely see is how, even powerfull cars seem to have an "automatic" acceleration for drifting, because when you input acceleration with those fast cars you normally end up with a spin. In Forza however it seems that no matter the car, the drift is buttersmooth at high speed around a corner.

These are just my observations which I compare to other racing sims.

 

[Lord Protector]

GTS is far superior in graphics and sounds as well... Forza sounds too exagarated once again. The interior reflections are way too strong too.

 

[ImaRobot]

Mind you telling me how am I inaccurate in saying that there seems to be no effort at all to throw a 200km/h car in a drift and perfectly control it

You're wrong in literally every aspect of how you say it happens, which makes sense considering you've only watched videos on YouTube and actually haven't even played it. The way you think it should happen, is the way it actually happens.

om the footage I've seen, there are some wrong elements regardless of how you implement it. When in a drift, the wheels seem to transition without any friction and situation of the track (angle) and smoothly so that you'll always be able to drift no matter where

Well then you really aren't paying attention.

Furthermore, when you drift and you accidentally take the corner with too much rotation momentum, that's a point of no return, no matter what counter steer or acceleration you put in, I've almost never seen this effect happen in Forza, on the opposite, even at very high speed, people have no problem whatsoever to throw their cars at incredible angle and the car seems to respond more to the steering you put than to the normally point of no return you're in

This situation very much exists in the game, if you get over eager, it'll bite you and you'll end up in a ditch. You watch you tube videos of mainly drifting, do it makes sense that these people your watching might actually know what they're doing. Please show is whatever is so wrong, and then show us a video of a game you think does it right? You should try actually playing it instead of making your wildly inaccurate claims as if you think you can judge a game physics engine through a YouTube video.

Another thing I rarely see is how, even powerfull cars seem to have an "automatic" acceleration for drifting, because when you input acceleration with those fast cars you normally end up with a spin. In Forza however it seems that no matter the car, the drift is buttersmooth at high speed around a corner.

Wrong again. Throttle input definitely matters, and if you do too much you'll either spin out inwards or you'll fly off the track because of too much speed. It's butter smooth probably because the skill of the player:idea:

y observations which I compare to other racing sims

Which, again, are completely wrong. Just face it, you aren't as good at judging physics through video like you seem to pretend to think. Which is fine, because no person should do something as ridiculous as that anyways.

 

[unit-one]

GTS is far superior in graphics and sounds as well... Forza sounds too exagarated once again. The interior reflections are way too strong too.

No side mirrors and the stopping lights don't work on Forza's car. :/

 

[Lord Protector]

No side mirrors and the stopping lights don't work on Forza's car. :/

LOL I didn't notice but wtf? where are the mirrors?

 

[kseb08]

LOL I didn't notice but wtf? where are the mirrors?

In loot boxes!

 

[TheNuvolari]

In loot boxes!

 

[TheCrazySwede]

From the footage I've seen....when in a drift, the wheels seem to transition without any friction and situation of the track (angle) and smoothly so that you'll always be able to drift no matter where.

Hmm, not quite sure what you mean by this. Could you please paraphrase what you said or perhaps show me an example?

Furthermore, when you drift and you accidentally take the corner with too much rotation momentum, that's a point of no return, no matter what counter steer or acceleration you put in, I've almost never seen this effect happen in Forza, on the opposite, even at very high speed, people have no problem whatsoever to throw their cars at incredible angle and the car seems to respond more to the steering you put than to the normally point of no return you're in.

Again, not too sure what you're talking about. You do realize that the world's fastest drift is clocked at 189.5mph, right? It's very much possible to drift at high speeds without spinning out, if the driver controls the car properly. If your rear end starts kicking out and you don't catch that booty in time, you'll definitely spin out in Forza. This is of course harder to do in real life due to the forces of inertia - something you don't get when playing video games in your living room.

Another thing I rarely see is how, even powerfull cars seem to have an "automatic" acceleration for drifting, because when you input acceleration with those fast cars you normally end up with a spin. In Forza however it seems that no matter the car, the drift is buttersmooth at high speed around a corner.

No idea what you're on about. There's no such thing as an "automatic" acceleration for drifting in Forza. Again, this notion that fast cars should end up in a spin is nonsense. I drive a '16 Porsche 911 GT3, a very fast car by most standards, and the car has never instigated a spin when I drive it hard. My project car, a Datsun Fairlady Z with racing spec I6 motor, has never spun on me - and that car is 40 years old.

These are just my observations which I compare to other racing sims.

I know you mean well, but you need to spend less time on the bleachers and more time on the track. Playing the games yourself will allow you to have a more accurate opinion on them. While you're at it, I highly suggest, if you're serious about Motorsport, that you enlist into some sort of racing school in your area. I don't know where you're located, but I've taught at a few in NA, but I'm sure I can help you find one close to where you are.

GTS is far superior in graphics and sounds as well... Forza sounds too exagarated once again. The interior reflections are way too strong too.

The GT-R, sadly, is a really poor example of Forza's audio mixing. It's always been really loud, even back in FM3.
Even though Forza games do tend to have more exaggerated exhaust notes - they do a great job of capturing the audio.
Whereas the road cars sound a bit too aggressive, the race cars in FM7 sound pretty spot on.


Nothing comes close to SimBin, though (:
I might be a bit biased cause I'm a Swede, but these lads to a fantastic job with the audio. This was back in 2011

 

[Hage dayo]

GTS livery editor

Forza7

 

[ImaRobot]

GTS livery editor

Forza7

Both of them look great to be honest, but there's no way someone would be able recreate such life-like images like you see in the last three Forza images. If GTS had more than 300 later than it would be able to, easily, though.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Anybody else get an odd Aaron Paul vibe from what's supposed to be Daniel Craig there? I half expect the other side to have his Breaking Bad catch phrase...

That Taylor Swift one from FM7 has been posted before, and it still blows my mind that somebody was able to create something that photo-realistic with nothing but in-game shapes. Massively impressive.

 

[UKMikey]

That Taylor Swift one from FM7 has been posted before, and it still blows my mind that somebody was able to create something that photo-realistic with nothing but in-game shapes. Massively impressive.

It's the kind of livery where you want to see one of those time-lapsed YouTube videos of the guy designing it from the ground up like the ones they have for conventional artists.

 

[zzz_pt]

GTS livery editor

Forza7

That looks superb indeed.

I wonder, though, if you import the same type of shapes and decals in GTS and you have the same artist using the tool, wouldn't it be possible to recreate them? Or are we suppose to ignore the best livery feature from GTS (import tool) when comparing both games?

Just to be clear, I do not own an XBOX and have never tried out Forza's livery feature.

 

[ImaRobot]

That looks superb indeed.

I wonder, though, if you import the same type of shapes and decals in GTS and you have the same artist using the tool, wouldn't it be possible to recreate them? Or are we suppose to ignore the best livery feature from GTS (import tool) when comparing both games?

Just to be clear, I do not own an XBOX and have never tried out Forza's livery feature.

It's a great feature that seems to be held back by a major restriction. How many uploads are you doing to be able to do when recreating that Taylor Swift image in GTS? Considering the cap is 15kb, I don't really see that being plausible considering the amount of detail that would be in each image you upload, your need more later than what's available in game*. It all sounds very good as a feature but the more I learn about it the less impressive it gets.

*Does each upload count as a layer?

 

[TheNuvolari]

OH NOOOOOOO!! THIS THREAD IS ALIVE AGAIN! Oh gosh, why...

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That looks superb indeed.

I wonder, though, if you import the same type of shapes and decals in GTS and you have the same artist using the tool, wouldn't it be possible to recreate them? Or are we suppose to ignore the best livery feature from GTS (import tool) when comparing both games?

Just to be clear, I do not own an XBOX and have never tried out Forza's livery feature.

The GTS import feature has no real impact on photo-realistic images, though. You'd need absolutely dozens of <15kb SVGs to recreate the Taylor shot, and would probably bump into Sport's much lower layer limit (which covers all sides, not left/right like FM7). Plus, as good as the SVG import feature is, it ignores an important fact: you need an entire other platform to get the most out of it.

I feel comfortable saying the Taylor image — or really, any of those photograph reproductions — is essentially impossible in GT Sport's livery editor in its current form. Whether or not that's an issue for anybody is a case-by-case basis, though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

OH NOOOOOOO!! THIS THREAD IS ALIVE AGAIN! Oh gosh, why...

Why not? I rather enjoy it.

 

[ImaRobot]

That looks superb indeed.

I wonder, though, if you import the same type of shapes and decals in GTS and you have the same artist using the tool, wouldn't it be possible to recreate them? Or are we suppose to ignore the best livery feature from GTS (import tool) when comparing both games?

Just to be clear, I do not own an XBOX and have never tried out Forza's livery feature.

Just for reference, on Forza you get 3000 layers on the right side of the car, and 3000 on the left side individually. I believe you also get 3000 for the top. Front and rear bumper areas get 1000 I believe, and even spoilers get 500.

I may be off because I haven't touched the editor since Forza 5.

Those detailed images will take the vast majority of that in Forza. Knowing that, it just doesn't seem possible for GTS.

 

[TheNuvolari]

Why not? I rather enjoy it.

People will kill each other again because of 2 pixels...

 

[Johnnypenso]

People will kill each other again because of 2 pixels...

Anyone who gets truly upset about a discussion of one of their favourite games on the Internet really needs to take a step back.

 

[Hage dayo]

Paint method

 

[CopperySinger]

Forza7

something seems "Fishy" here

Forza does not supposed to have imported images, I suspect this is a hack done on pc from Horizon 3 era imo.

but from my understanding each side is limited to 3000 layers. Taylor Swift appear to have more than 3000 hair follicles alone and not including the amount of layers needed to make the entire image

According to Bauman Medical "You are born with about 100,000 scalp hair follicles to start with, but it varies with natural hair color. Blondes have an average of 150,000 hairs, the average redhead has 90,000. Those with black or brown hair average 110,000 to 100,000 hairs."
https://baumanmedical.com/qa/many-hairs-human-head/


Also look at a zoomed of this image to see the books and texts from books have shadows and lighting, this appears to be a real image that slipped its way into forza.

 

[Veinz]

something seems "Fishy" here

Forza does not supposed to have imported images, I suspect this is a hack done on pc from Horizon 3 era imo.

That is for sure legit, I've seen many liveries like that in all my years of playing FM. There are some amazing painters within that community, and it can take them dozens of hours to put together something like that.

I even remember seeing portraits like that on the Xbox 360 iterations of FM. Although not as detailed due to the much lower layer limit.

 

[ImaRobot]

something seems "Fishy" here

Forza does not supposed to have imported images, I suspect this is a hack done on pc from Horizon 3 era imo.

It's not. Claims should have at least some kind of evidence to form that opinion. Why in the world would you jump straight to that?

ut from my understanding each side is limited to 3000 layers. Taylor Swift appear to have more than 3000 hair follicles alone and not including the amount of layers needed to make the entire image

holy hell that's ridiculous. The sad part is that you're being serious.

According to Bauman Medical "You are born with about 100,000 scalp hair follicles to start with, but it varies with natural hair color. Blondes have an average of 150,000 hairs, the average redhead has 90,000. Those with black or brown hair average 110,000 to 100,000 hairs."

And I didn't think it could get any better.

Whatever the case, this was made on a game that wasn't available on the PC at the time.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

something seems "Fishy" here

Forza does not supposed to have imported images, I suspect this is a hack done on pc from Horizon 3 era imo.

There is literally nothing fishy here just that it is a painted livery from a very talented and experienced Forza Motorsports player. Meaning it is neither a hack or an imported image.

but from my understanding each side is limited to 3000 layers. Taylor Swift appear to have more than 3000 hair follicles alone and not including the amount of layers needed to make the entire image

How do you explain this video then?

Do you see the player even painting the so called 3000+ follicle layers?

According to Bauman Medical "You are born with about 100,000 scalp hair follicles to start with, but it varies with natural hair color. Blondes have an average of 150,000 hairs, the average redhead has 90,000. Those with black or brown hair average 110,000 to 100,000 hairs."
https://baumanmedical.com/qa/many-hairs-human-head/

Alright thanks for the information. But clearly what is it for?


"Also look at a zoomed of this image to see the books and texts from books have shadows and lighting, this appears to be a real image that slipped its way into forza".


Alright take a look at these two images:
Taylor Swift v1.

Taylor Swift v2.

Clearly I can see which one is painted and which one is an actual image.

 

[PzR Slim]

something seems "Fishy" here

Forza does not supposed to have imported images, I suspect this is a hack done on pc from Horizon 3 era imo.

but from my understanding each side is limited to 3000 layers. Taylor Swift appear to have more than 3000 hair follicles alone and not including the amount of layers needed to make the entire image

According to Bauman Medical "You are born with about 100,000 scalp hair follicles to start with, but it varies with natural hair color. Blondes have an average of 150,000 hairs, the average redhead has 90,000. Those with black or brown hair average 110,000 to 100,000 hairs."
https://baumanmedical.com/qa/many-hairs-human-head/


Also look at a zoomed of this image to see the books and texts from books have shadows and lighting, this appears to be a real image that slipped its way into forza.

Your GT tinted specs really know no bounds do they? Outstanding artwork by very talented people has been appearing in FM for many iterations and well before it got anywhere near the PC. Just stop.

 

[CopperySinger]

I see people are still trying hard to say that this is not fake...

Look here, pixelated image in Forza. This seems to be some serious hacking going on in Forza's design editor.

Taylor Swifts hair is also pixelated, see look closer.