Besides the eSports, What's the Point?

Here's the thing that people like you forget when you trot out this argument over and over again: yes, we know it's about racing. But look, there is a market for the type of game that GT once was.

Seriously, it is so goddamn infuriating to see people basically try and defend every move Polyphony makes and make it feel like we're back in 2005 where it's only GT and Forza. In fact, GT hasn't been the top dog in the genre for a while now. It's a stick in the mud, not moving in the slightest, yet still acting like it's in its prime. If it wasn't for the fact that GT is a first party Japanese studio, then Sony would have closed them down after GT6's utter failure. Sony certainly has canned companies for less, see Evolution and DRIVECLUB's failure out of the gate sealing its fate after a lackluster and problematic launch.

Lol. You're contradicting yourself.
You're complaining that GT changed so much and then proceed to call them a stick in the mud that isn't moving.
Which is it?

Look, I don't have all the numbers and facts that PD has at their disposal, but don't you think you're being a bit naive? Did it ever occur to any of you, that the business actually researched their consumer market before they decided which direction to go with GTSport? Perhaps that sales, data, trends, and the failure/success of other games in this genre helped dictate what they thought would be most successful for altering their brand, even beyond the PS4 console?

You don't think PD knows they were losing customers to iRacing, PCars, AC, Forza etc? So what do you guys recommend they do? Repeat GT6 and hope things get better? People didn't leave GT and head to any of the above titles because they love collecting 10,000 Mazda Miatas, I promise. They left for better racing, or better simulation, more reliable online experiences, etc. So why would their market strategy be to keep bleeding customers and sales to these games? They wanted to focus on racing, specifically online racing, because that's what the other games are doing, and succeeding at. What's more likely to get a PCars/AC/iRacing player to come back to the GT series? Better racing or car collecting?
It's NOT car collecting guys.

Having said that, I agree with you Silver Arrows, there IS a market for Pokemon Cars. But that doesn't mean PD is responsible to create that game OR more importantly, make that game a part of this game. Personally, I would have no issues with GT7 continuing the tradition of the game. I think GTSport is a different branch. Similar to what Need For Speed did with their 'shift' series. They continued to make arcade-y NFS games, but they had an additional series of game, that was more sim-oriented. The 2 can coexist.

My problem, is that no one should have bought/played/cried that NFS Shift wasn't like the rest of the NFS titles, because that was the entire point of the new series. Therefor I don't think you have any ground to complain that GTSport isn't GT6 2.0. It wasn't meant to be a continuation of the original series, it wasn't designed to be that way, and it doesn't seem to me, that it was every suppose to be.

If you're disappointed with the way PD went with their 'new' game (which you really need to get used to, this is a NEW game, not GT7) I understand, and I'm sorry that GT7 didn't come out, or that the 'old' GT series has died. Maybe GT7 is in the works, maybe Sport is just an experiment.

As for where GTSport fits into the racing world, I think its goal is to be the happy medium. That may seem condescending, but it's not. Let me be clear that I have not played AC. I haven't played PCars2, but I did play DriveClub, PCars1, iRacing, and I have dabbled in Forza 7 and Horizon. Need For Speeds and the Crew don't really even apply, but I've played those as well.

iRacing is the ultimate super serious sim in my opinion. Cockpit only, extremely realistic, pricey, by no means a casual racers game.
PCars is next on the list for me. PCars has a LOT of tuning options, even more ForceFeedback Options, and is extremely overwhelming, even to me. I was heavy into tuning back when GT5 was in its prime, but when I played PCars, I looked at all the settings, and it was just too much for me to even want to bother tweaking with, or test/tuning etc etc. Pure race cars.
Then there's Gran Turismo. A good racing game, with dumbed down tuning, a decent social aspect. It's what I consider the sweet spot for 'racing'.
Below GT, are the more arcadey games, DriveClub, Crew, NFS, etc.

*Reminder, I haven't play AC, so it's not included.

My point is this, GT is essentially aiming for mediocrity. Some of you seem to think that's a bad thing, and you are entitled to your opinion. My friends would never play PCars. They're never going to play iRacing in their lives, but they do purchase and play Gran Turismo with me. It's casual enough that anyone can play and have fun, and won't send them running for the hills.

So is GT as good of a 'sim' as iRacing? Nope.
Is it as good of a fine tuning pure race car game as PCars? Nope.
Is it as casual and 'fun' as Need For Speed? Nope.

It's their best attempt to blend all 3, that can attract the largest possible demographic of console gamers, with enough street cars, race cars, evolving events, time trials, livery editor, and social aspects to attract the mass public.

There are plenty of things I feel PD fell short on, in regards to GT Sport. After 4 years, I think it's rather underwhelming what they gave us, it is not my intent to defend them in the grand scheme, but only in regards to what they gave us, and what you guys are complaining about.

It's like complaining that the World War 2 Call of Duty doesn't have jet packs and exoskeletons.
They DESIGNED IT THAT WAY.
Don't buy WW2 if you want Exoskeletons.
Don't buy GTSport if you want to collect 50 generations of GT-Rs.
 
The game would surely lose its online focus if there was a large offline component. If anything there should be more modes to support the online mode.
If more offline is added and it takes players away from online then that proves online shouldn't be the focus in the first place. Adding even more online focus at that point is throwing good money after bad. Either online can stand on its own merits or it cannot be right to focus on it to the exclusion of offline at all.
 
GT Sport was going to be GT7 Prologue. Maybe Kaz met a top FIA official while drinking at a bar after some race. Remember, GT had become legit after scoring the Corvette reveal, and the Vision cars designed by real manufacturers. Plus there was GT Academy.

I still think there will be a GT7, and Sport is just a glorified prologue. Kaz just tried to switch things up with FIA support. Prologues were not full priced games, but Sport is.

Of all the people you have ever met, how many would actually care about FIA? FIA is just a gimmick, Sport, which is Sport, and not Prologue, because of FIA, is just a gimmick.
 
GT Sport was going to be GT7 Prologue. Maybe Kaz met a top FIA official while drinking at a bar after some race. Remember, GT had become legit after scoring the Corvette reveal, and the Vision cars designed by real manufacturers. Plus there was GT Academy.

I still think there will be a GT7, and Sport is just a glorified prologue. Kaz just tried to switch things up with FIA support. Prologues were not full priced games, but Sport is.

Of all the people you have ever met, how many would actually care about FIA? FIA is just a gimmick, Sport, which is Sport, and not Prologue, because of FIA, is just a gimmick.
This is honestly my suspicion/hunch as well: that this is just a Prologue by another name. Seriously, the Mission Challenge mode reminds me of the Events mode in GT5 Prologue. Not to mention the car list if you don't include the racing variants... Maybe Jim Ryan was right when he said in the beginning that this could be a Prologue before Kaz started saying that this was/could be called the real GT7.

Despite all this, I still really like Sport, though.
 
In fact, GT hasn't been the top dog in the genre for a while now.

Interesting how the non top dog went straight to number 1 on the sales charts. PC2 didn't do that. GT Sport is already more popular than the combined membership of iRacing over iRacing's entire history. And despite iRacing's premium pricing I bet it is more profitable.

It's a stick in the mud, not moving in the slightest, yet still acting like it's in its prime.

And yet it is selling better than GT6. And how is reinventing the game in a way that is completely p'ing off the die hard old school GT fans stuck in the mud or not moving in the slightest. Hard core sim racers are saying in their reviews that what GT Sport has done with online racing is what every sim should be doing. That's innovation, something that could hardly be said about some of the more recent numbered titles.

If it wasn't for the fact that GT is a first party Japanese studio, then Sony would have closed them down after GT6's utter failure.

LOL you really are saying some funny stuff. Before GT Sport, the GT series had 77 million sales, GT5 had 12 million and the poorly selling GT6 still had over 5 million sales and many people claimed this genre just can't see great sales again. GT Sport went straight to number 1 and is outselling GT6 by a number of times over and at the same time PS4 took number 1 in console sales. Hey I went out and bought a PS4 Pro for GT Sport. Once again this is a console selling title. And while GTS sales are not as good as GT5 sales at this time what we know is so far they are over half of GT5 sales and more than double GT6 sales so if the trend continues that could see GTS selling in the 7-8 million range.

Why would Sony want Polyphony to close down? Keep in mind Sim Racers have been arguing for years that online racing is a niche. iRacers have argued there isn't a market bigger than iRacing for that kind of service and the low numbers are a result of lack of demand in justification of the high pricing. Ian Bell claimed that the type of online racing service iRacing offers is a niche and that iRacing have that market sown up. And GT Sport comes out with stronger sales numbers than GT6. Even if GTS only sells a few million, in 10 years iRacing has only had a few hundred thousand accounts including free accounts and duplicate accounts and test accounts. Even just 1 million sales for an online only racing service would be an unexpected success but I'm sure time will tell that other developers have misjudged the interest in online racing.

Of all the people you have ever met, how many would actually care about FIA? FIA is just a gimmick, Sport, which is Sport, and not Prologue, because of FIA, is just a gimmick.
People might think they don't care about FIA but if you care about motor sport you care about FIA since FIA controls all Motor Sport. Technically because of the wording in iRacing's original FIRST online documents I imagine FIA could step in at any time and claim authority over iRacing since iRacing claim to be an Online Motor Sport and FIA are the governing body for all Motor Sport.

FIA is not a gimmick. And people should take this as a sign of things to come because FIA will always have a plan for the future and they are looking at this as the future of Motor Sport.

Total rubbish. You speak for yourself only. No one else.

Did you read what you quoted? What do you think real racers care about? How about I rephrase that, do real racers care about racing real people or not?
 
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You don't think PD knows they were losing customers to iRacing...

Probably not, because they aren't. iRacing is very flashy as the poster child for serious racing games, but it's incredibly niche. Nobody in their right mind would fear losing their multi-million customer base to something like iRacing.

iRacing is a good example of why developers shouldn't make a game exactly like iRacing. There's barely room for one iRacing in the market.

It does online multiplayer racing well. And that’s all real racers care about

Well, damn. Someone's going to have to call my Mum and tell her that I'm not a real racer. She'll be so disappointed.
 
7HO
LOL you really are saying some funny stuff. Before GT Sport, the GT series had 77 million sales, GT5 had 12 million and the poorly selling GT6 still had over 5 million sales and many people claimed this genre just can't see great sales again. GT Sport went straight to number 1 and is outselling GT6 by a number of times over and at the same time PS4 took number 1 in console sales. Hey I went out and bought a PS4 Pro for GT Sport. Once again this is a console selling title. And while GTS sales are not as good as GT5 sales at this time what we know is so far they are over half of GT5 sales and more than double GT6 sales so if the trend continues that could see GTS selling in the 7-8 million range.

Why would Sony want Polyphony to close down? Keep in mind Sim Racers have been arguing for years that online racing is a niche. iRacers have argued there isn't a market bigger than iRacing for that kind of service and the low numbers are a result of lack of demand in justification of the high pricing. Ian Bell claimed that the type of online racing service iRacing offers is a niche and that iRacing have that market sown up. And GT Sport comes out with stronger sales numbers than GT6. Even if GTS only sells a few million, in 10 years iRacing has only had a few hundred thousand accounts including free accounts and duplicate accounts and test accounts. Even just 1 million sales for an online only racing service would be an unexpected success but I'm sure time will tell that other developers have misjudged the interest in online racing.
Your talking about revenue.

What about profit?



7HO
People might think they don't care about FIA but if you care about motor sport you care about FIA since FIA controls all Motor Sport. Technically because of the wording in iRacing's original FIRST online documents I imagine FIA could step in at any time and claim authority over iRacing since iRacing claim to be an Online Motor Sport and FIA are the governing body for all Motor Sport.
The FIA do not control all motorsport.

The FIA do not control the LMS series, Indy Car, NASCAR, V8SC, Super GT and a massive amount of national and club level racing.




7HO
FIA is not a gimmick. And people should take this as a sign of things to come because FIA will always have a plan for the future and they are looking at this as the future of Motor Sport.
The FIA have been supporting an eSports series for two years now, given how important they are I'm sure you know exactly what it is and how big an impact its made?

It would of course be an issue if that two year series wasn't the number one esport series across all platforms wouldn't it.


7HO
Did you read what you quoted? What do you think real racers care about? How about I rephrase that, do real racers care about racing real people or not?
Why do you get to define what real 'virtual' racers want?

What about those virtual racers who want weather and time factors, tracks that rubber in and evolve, open wheel cars, stock cars, a wide range of real world tracks, the most accurate physics and FFB they can get?

What about them?
 
maybe i'm one of the few buying ps4 just for GT Sport.

Been in iRacing for 3 years and its so addictive.

Now because GT Sport is using iRacing success formula, i'm pretty much sold.

Bought myself pS4/gtsport just because of eSport.
 
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What about profit?
iRacing have a staff the same size as PD, based on numbers I think it is safe to say PD are doing a lot better than iRacing.

The FIA do not control the LMS series, Indy Car, NASCAR, V8SC, Super GT and a massive amount of national and club level racing.
LOL I'm more sorry for me that I have to do all this cutting and pasting now because of how wrong you are. But I'm going to leave it up to you to read each page rather than cutting and pasting the text from each.

https://www.fia.com/fia
"THE FIA
The FIA is the governing body for world motor sport and the federation of the world’s leading motoring organisations. Founded in 1904, with headquarters in Paris, the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) is a non-profit making association. It brings together 245 national motoring and sporting organisations from 143 countries on five continents. Its member clubs represent millions of motorists and their families.
V8SC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercars_Championship"
Indy NASCAR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_Competition_Committee_for_the_United_States
Super GT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_GT
LMS ACO is a partner of FIA

EDIT: BTW just in case it isn't clear. All international racining comes directly under the jurisdiction of FIA and FIA allows members to control the running of local and club racing but ultimately all motor racing falls under the control of FIA.

The FIA have been supporting an eSports series for two years now, given how important they are I'm sure you know exactly what it is and how big an impact its made?

It would of course be an issue if that two year series wasn't the number one esport series across all platforms wouldn't it.
And now F1 as well, as I said the FIA are looking at this as the future of Motor Sport and FIA are the governing body for World Motor Sport.

Why do you get to define what real 'virtual' racers want?

What about those virtual racers who want weather and time factors, tracks that rubber in and evolve, open wheel cars, stock cars, a wide range of real world tracks, the most accurate physics and FFB they can get?

What about them?
He never wrote "real 'virtual' racers". A real racer, as in a person who wants to race needs competition to race against, the definition of the word race includes others to race against. I didn't define anything, I read the dictionary.

maybe i'm one if the few buying ps4 just for GT Sport.

Been in iRacing for 3 years and its so addictive.

Now because GT Sport is using iRacing success formula, i'm pretty much sold.

Bought myself pS4/gtsport just because of eSport.
Well you and me both and from the sales numbers it would seem a lot of others too.

I already had a PS4 in the house to play GT Sport on and already had PC2 on the PS4 as well but I liked GT Sport so much that I decided it was time to buy a PS4 Pro to play it on. GT Sport is pretty much the only game I have been interested in playing since it released. I did some back to back testing with PC2 when the servers went down on GT Sport and realised I did not like PC2 compared to GT Sport. I was an iRacer for years. I'm no longer a member of iRacing.
 
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Total rubbish. You speak for yourself only. No one else.

Well, he speaks for me and quite a few others as well, so it is definitely not total rubbish.


maybe i'm one of the few buying ps4 just for GT Sport.

Been in iRacing for 3 years and its so addictive.

Now because GT Sport is using iRacing success formula, i'm pretty much sold.

Bought myself pS4/gtsport just because of eSport.

I haven't raced IRacing but have Pcars2 on pc and GT Sport on PS4 strictly for online racing. I have only booted Pcars 2 maybe twice since the GT Sport Beta. This game has so much polish compared to Pcars 2 . It doesn't have the dynamic weather and as many cars and tracks, but what it has works and works well.

Also, I have complete faith in Polyphony to fix what bugs it has yet Pcars 2 developers won't admit the bugs exist or as I heard in one interview where they basically said "we made all these cars and tracks why aren't you people happy, it's too much work to fix all of them"

Just to be perfectly clear, I would love for them to release a massive SP dlc next week so everyone could be happy, and I would like to see 5 or 6 online races instead of 3. But as long as they keep refining the online racing, maybe add some more offline functionality I will continue to be happy with this game.
 
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Well, he speaks for me and quite a few others as well, so it is definitely not total rubbish.
He said, 'It does online multiplayer racing well. And that’s all real racers care about.'

I'm a real racer and it's not all I care about, so his assertion was incorrect and therefore rubbish.

It's pretty straightforward, the original claim was that real racers only cared about multiplayer to defend the fact that single player is so poor. Others are now trying to twist those words to mean something else. As I've already said, I'm a real racer and I care about multiplayer and single player and want a game that does both of those fully and very well.
 
Others are now trying to twist those words to mean something else.
No one is trying to twist the words to mean something else. It is clear what he meant because words have meaning. You say you are a real racer, that means you race against other people, if you don't you are not a real racer. If we want to be literal then no he is wrong as I don't only care about online multiplayer, I also care about my family. But that is not relevant to the discussion and if you like Goat Simulator is also not relevant. Being a real racer implies you have real competitors because if you are not racing against real people you are not a real racer. So ultimately the only thing a real racer cares about is if the system he needs works. Not only is everything he said accurate and logical, it is so obvious it should go without saying.
 
7HO
No one is trying to twist the words to mean something else. It is clear what he meant because words have meaning. You say you are a real racer, that means you race against other people, if you don't you are not a real racer. If we want to be literal then no he is wrong as I don't only care about online multiplayer, I also care about my family. But that is not relevant to the discussion and if you like Goat Simulator is also not relevant. Being a real racer implies you have real competitors because if you are not racing against real people you are not a real racer. So ultimately the only thing a real racer cares about is if the system he needs works. Not only is everything he said accurate and logical, it is so obvious it should go without saying.
Real racer is a completely meaningless phrase. It's absolutely clear why it was said and it's absolutely clear that it is also untrue. Twist it however you want.
 
He said, 'It does online multiplayer racing well. And that’s all real racers care about.'

I'm a real racer and it's not all I care about, so his assertion was incorrect and therefore rubbish.

It's pretty straightforward, the original claim was that real racers only cared about multiplayer to defend the fact that single player is so poor. Others are now trying to twist those words to mean something else. As I've already said, I'm a real racer and I care about multiplayer and single player and want a game that does both of those fully and very well.

Again, he speaks for ME and quite a few OTHERS, so it is not TOTAL rubbish. He would have to be speaking only of himself for it to be TOTAL rubbish.
 
Again, he speaks for ME and quite a few OTHERS, so it is not TOTAL rubbish. He would have to be speaking only of himself for it to be TOTAL rubbish.
Are 'you and quite a few others' every single real racer out there? If not then it is total rubbish. He made a sweeping statement that covers all 'real racers', no matter how ridiculous that phrase is, he does not speak for every 'real racer' out there and therefore it is total rubbish. If he had said 'many real racers' then you may have a point.
 
Real racer is a completely meaningless phrase.
Real as in a person who is really racing, not pretending to race such as a person who is simulating racing by racing against AI.
Racer a person who is partaking in a race.
Race, a competition against others to see who is fastest over a course or objective.

The fact he used both the words Real and Racer is repetition to drive the point home, he could have just said Racer and it would have meant the same thing but he reinforced the idea by adding Real which means the Racer is not pretending to race, they are actually racing.

It isn't his or my fault you don't want to accept the English meaning of the words he wrote and want them to mean something other than what those words actually mean.
 
Are 'you and quite a few others' every single real racer out there? If not then it is total rubbish. He made a sweeping statement that covers all 'real racers', no matter how ridiculous that phrase is, he does not speak for every 'real racer' out there and therefore it is total rubbish. If he had said 'many real racers' then you may have a point.

Total rubbish. You speak for yourself only. No one else.

This is what I was replying to and he does not speak only for himself and no one else. I honestly don't even see how you can argue that.
 
7HO
Real as in a person who is really racing, not pretending to race such as a person who is simulating racing by racing against AI.
Racer a person who is partaking in a race.
Race, a competition against others to see who is fastest over a course or objective.

The fact he used both the words Real and Racer is repetition to drive the point home, he could have just said Racer and it would have meant the same thing but he reinforced the idea by adding Real which means the Racer is not pretending to race, they are actually racing.

It isn't his or my fault you don't want to accept the English meaning of the words he wrote and want them to mean something other than what those words actually mean.
Utter guff :lol:

The lengths some of you will go to are hilarious.
 
Utter guff :lol:

The lengths some of you will go to are hilarious.
So do you deny the meanings of those words?

You are arguing because you don't understand English.

You are only a Real Racer when you are really racing. That means you are only a real racer when you are competing against other people. If you are not competing against other people you are not a real racer. You can imagine you are but you are wrong by definition. You can claim you are but that claim would be false. You are only a real racer when you are racing other people and when you are racing against other people what is the only thing you care about? The answer is the race. In the context of the game that means online multiplayer.

People racing against AI are not real racers by definition, they are pretend racers, pretending to race.
 
7HO
So do you deny the meanings of those words?

You are arguing because you don't understand English.

You are only a Real Racer when you are really racing. That means you are only a real racer when you are competing against other people. If you are not competing against other people you are not a real racer. You can imagine you are but you are wrong by definition. You can claim you are but that claim would be false. You are only a real racer when you are racing other people and when you are racing against other people what is the only thing you care about? The answer is the race. In the context of the game that means online multiplayer.

People racing against AI are not real racers by definition, they are pretend racers, pretending to race.
I know what the words mean. I am denying they were used in the context you claim. You are only a 'real racer' when you are sat in a real car on a real race track in a real race. It was a throw away comment used to denigrate people who enjoy the single player experience in an attempt to defend the lack of a decent single player mode in the game. Keep on twisting :lol:
 
I know what the words mean. I am denying they were used in the context you claim. You are only a 'real racer' when you are sat in a real car on a real race track in a real race. It was a throw away comment used to denigrate people who enjoy the single player experience in an attempt to defend the lack of a decent single player mode in the game. Keep on twisting :lol:
If it makes you feel better to imagine that fine but you are wrong because you do not need to be in a real car to be a real racer, in fact if I have a running race against a real person I am really racing. All that is required is real competitors otherwise you are not actually racing. So the fact remains that anyone racing against AI is not really racing and by definition not a real racer at that time, they are a pretend racer pretending to race.

So lets forget what he said for a moment and just focus on what I am saying.

Racing against AI is not real racing and you are only a real racer when you are racing against real people!
 
7HO
If it makes you feel better to imagine that fine but you are wrong because you do not need to be in a real car to be a real racer, in fact if I have a running race against a real person I am really racing. All that is required is real competitors otherwise you are not actually racing. So the fact remains that anyone racing against AI is not really racing and by definition not a real racer at that time, they are a pretend racer pretending to race.

So lets forget what he said for a moment and just focus on what I am saying.

Racing against AI is not real racing and you are only a real racer when you are racing against real people!
:lol: Seriously man, you are killing me. Think you are going to be very dizzy when all of that twisting unwinds.
 
:lol: Seriously man, you are killing me. Think you are going to be very dizzy when all of that twisting unwinds.
I just told you exactly what I meant and asked you to focus only on that and now you are accusing me of twisting my own words, are you crazy?
 
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7HO
If it makes you feel better to imagine that fine but you are wrong because you do not need to be in a real car to be a real racer, in fact if I have a running race against a real person I am really racing. All that is required is real competitors otherwise you are not actually racing. So the fact remains that anyone racing against AI is not really racing and by definition not a real racer at that time, they are a pretend racer pretending to race.

So lets forget what he said for a moment and just focus on what I am saying.

Racing against AI is not real racing and you are only a real racer when you are racing against real people!
I hate to break it to you but its all virtual

We are no more real racers in that sense than people playing COD are real soldiers.

7HO
I guess you also believe in a flat Earth considering you don't want to accept reality. I just told you exactly what I meant and asked you to focus only on that and now you are accusing me of twisting my own words, are you crazy?
And you can not resort to Ad-Hominin attacks, the AUP is quite clear about that.
 
7HO
I guess you also believe in a flat Earth considering you don't want to accept reality. I just told you exactly what I meant and asked you to focus only on that and now you are accusing me of twisting my own words, are you crazy?
We are discussing what someone else wrote but you want me to ignore that and concentrate on what you wrote. I think what you wrote is a complete misrepresentation of what is being discussed. Why on earth would I ignore what is actually being discussed and instead focus on your twisted misrepresentation of it? Absolutely bizarre :lol:
 
I hate to break it to you but its all virtual

We are no more real racers in that sense than people playing COD are real soldiers.
I hate to break it to you but again you are wrong. It is not virtual, you are actually racing against real people. In CoD you are not killing real people, you are competing against real people in a virtual environment but not in a way that makes you a soldier. It isn't remotely relevant. But when you race online against real people it is real racing by definition and there is nothing virtual about the race or the people. Only the cars and environment is virtual but since a race is not dependent on the method of racing or environment that is irrelevant. To put it another way, if you raced Mario Kart against real people you are really racing but if you race against AI you are not really racing, you are pretending to race. If you race someone in CoD across a map from point A to point B you are really racing. If you race against a real person in wheelchairs, you are really racing. The only things that matter are that your competition is real people and that there is a competition to see who will arrive first, then you have a race according to the dictionary.
And you can not resort to Ad-Hominin attacks, the AUP is quite clear about that.
Sorry I edited the first sentence out.
We are discussing what someone else wrote but you want me to ignore that and concentrate on what you wrote. I think what you wrote is a complete misrepresentation of what is being discussed. Why on earth would I ignore what is actually being discussed and instead focus on your twisted misrepresentation of it? Absolutely bizarre :lol:
No we reached an impass where you refuse to accept the meanings of the words so I no longer wish to discuss his words with you. Now I wrote my own words and told you exactly what they mean, here they are again,
7HO
Racing against AI is not real racing and you are only a real racer when you are racing against real people!

BTW they are not an opinion, it is a statement.
 
7HO
No we reached an impass where you refuse to accept the meanings of the words so I no longer wish to discuss his words with you. Now I wrote my own words and told you exactly what they mean, here they are again,


BTW they are not an opinion, it is a statement.
:lol:

We are discussing the meaning of the words in the original post. You can believe them to mean whatever you want and I can disagree with them. All of the guff you wrote after that is meaningless. The comment was made to denigrate those who enjoy single player and so defend the none inclusion of a decent single player mode in the game.
 
7HO
I hate to break it to you but again you are wrong. It is not virtual, you are actually racing against real people.
Its not virtual?

The competition between people is the only 'real' element to it, the cars are virtual, the curcuits are virtual, the physics and force feedback are virtual, the environment is virtual.

But its not virtual?


7HO
In CoD you are not killing real people, you are competing against real people in a virtual environment but not in a way that makes you a soldier. It isn't remotely relevant.
So risk of injury or death is a factor that differentiates them. Can you tell me the ratio of real world racing to sim racing injuries and deaths?

You don't like that analogy however, so lets try some others. Does on-line FIFA and PES make you a footballer? What about on-line cricket, baseball, basketball?


7HO
But when you race online against real people it is real racing by definition and there is nothing virtual about the race or the people. Only the cars and environment is virtual but since a race is not dependent on the method of racing or environment that is irrelevant. To put it another way, if you raced Mario Kart against real people you are really racing but if you race against AI you are not really racing, you are pretending to race. If you race someone in CoD across a map from point A to point B you are really racing. If you race against a real person in wheelchairs, you are really racing. The only things that matter are that your competition is real people and that there is a competition to see who will arrive first, then you have a race according to the dictionary.
You are competing against another person yes, however the crux is if that is more or less racing that against AI.

I can tell you hands down that I've had situations in which racing against AI has been more challenging than racing against people, I've also had the reverse situations.

They are both a form of competition, they are both a race, they are both a form of racing.

This for example:


was a damn sight more challenging and enjoyable race than this:



Despite being against AI and seeing me blow my engine.


7HO
Sorry I edited the first sentence out.
Thank you.
 
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