Best rally car of all time?

  • Thread starter C-ZETA
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That would suggest that these cars could be making 500 or more ponies without the restrictor. Not far off the 600-odd hp that Group B cars were making. Remove the restrictor and size the turbo accordingly, and 600+ hp is not that difficult to achieve with such hardware.

Take a look at today's FIA European Rallycross Division 1, those are basically WRC cars with a 45mm restrictor and a larger turbo. I've seen two races and holy 🤬 those things move. Group B of the 21st century, no doubt.

From Wikipedia:

FIA European Rallycross Championship (ERC) cars are built based on production car body shells but are extensively modified. A typical leading ERC series car, Per Eklund's Saab 9-3 Turbo 16 4x4 technical specifications are a 2 litre turbocharged 4 cylinder 16 valve engine with a 45 mm turbo restrictor rated at +550 bhp (410 kW) and 800 N·m (590 lb·ft) of torque, four wheel drive with programmable active differentials and six-speed gearbox, 1,200 kg (2,600 lb) (current FIA regulations) and will do the 0–100 km/h (about 0–62 mph) sprint in less than 2.5 seconds, thereby roughly as fast as a Formula One racer (capable of 0-60 mph in 2.3 seconds), some other ERC Division 1 cars are already claimed by their drivers to need even less than 2 seconds.
 
And that is "old"? A front-engined, front-driven tiny hatchback gets a different engine, in a different location, with a different drivetrain - but the direction is the same, so it's not a new design? :rolleyes:

The GroupB 205 engine was placed that way due to the adaption exsiting Citroen SM/Lotus Esprit Turbo transmission.
The rest being entirely special.

Engine XU block was indeed from the then new 205 desiel engine cast iron far better for high boost from that big F1 Style Turbo they bolted on it .

Layout was far from perfect engine was also off set to one side & the wrong direction for a good balanced race car.


Though you have to remember these were poor times for Peugeot vast amounts of money were not there like you have at Citreon these days them all being part of the PSA Group even back then.

There was a lot at stake with there Group B project.


As for me Delta S4 & O.37 are my favs.

Along with Mk2 Escort saw them all back then & glad it did it will never happen agine.:ill:
 
I find it funny that the Escort Mk2 "Nemesis" was never mentioned in this thread (I looked, but if it was and I missed it I'm sorry). When I was a kid, my rally idol was Markku Alen and that guy, with this car, was a blast to watch fighting guys like Mikkola and later Vatanen in the Escorts.

So, here goes the fully deserved mention (in this thread) to one of the greatest Rally cars of all times and eras. The Group 4 Fiat 131 Abarth Rally

Fiat131Abarth02a.jpg
 
Ford Escort for the 2WD

Audi Quattro for the 4WD

Oh and one of my personnel faves was the Metro 6R4 , i've heard of Ex Works Cars being Tuned to 1200BHP :crazy:

Course they might not last too long :lol:
 
I find it funny that the Escort Mk2 "Nemesis" was never mentioned in this thread (I looked, but if it was and I missed it I'm sorry). When I was a kid, my rally idol was Markku Alen and that guy, with this car, was a blast to watch fighting guys like Mikkola and later Vatanen in the Escorts.

So, here goes the fully deserved mention (in this thread) to one of the greatest Rally cars of all times and eras. The Group 4 Fiat 131 Abarth Rally

Fiat131Abarth02a.jpg

👍

Criminally under rated.
 
Difficult question, the Ford RS200 and all other Group B cars were fast and cool, but too fast, the modern rally cars are loaded with technology (my guess), so, either the Lancia Stratos or the Alpine A110
 
You know, I have mixed feelings towards the Group B cars. Sure, they were awesome, they were all very different from each other, they were monstruous in power.

But they were also the beggining of 4WD in world rallying. (I think the quattro started out as a Group 4, but Group B started immediately after).

And I'm a lover of the 2WD era. Funny because I don't like drifting per se. But having the TOP drivers in 2WD cars made for a SPECTACULAR sport.

I just watched this video that I didn't know beforehand. It's a bit repetitive. But it's full of AWE. And of many of the cars mentioned in this thread (Ford, Fiat, Stratos, 037)


Makes me wish 4WD were banned ... :D



[YOUTUBEHD]QL4YIBelos4[/YOUTUBEHD]
 
The Ford RS200 might be the greatest rally car never to win a championship... it was too fast, too hardcore, and was partly responsible for the banning of Group B and the wild days of Rallying.

And man, it just looked hardcore. None of the pretense of looking like a road-going car, like with other Group Bs (aside from the Lancia Stratos, no other rally car ever looked so sleek), and it had an engine so powerful that it would reoprtedly eat itself alive if you twicked the boost up... wonderful...

It's a shame Ford's last RS200s never made it into the WRC...

Agreed, it was an animal, I love the Audi Quattro. but the period of rallying I grew up with and remember most, and I got my dad to get me a petrol R/C car of, was Colin Mcrae Subaru and a Michelin Pilot Escort Cosworth.
 
I just watched this video that I didn't know beforehand. It's a bit repetitive. But it's full of AWE. And of many of the cars mentioned in this thread (Ford, Fiat, Stratos, 037)


Makes me wish 4WD were banned ... :D

Gonna have to disagree with you on the 4WD banning :lol:. But you're right, the Stratos was just amazing and the 037 was incredible too. Also Mini Cooper :D
 
Obviously the Audi A4's. Also more recently the Citroen Xsara/C6 that is helped Sebastian Loeb, one of the best drivers of all time to his 8 WRC Crowns.
 
Stratos is absolute number one. I love so many things about it I can't even list them all here.

Coming up second is the 037 just because it was the only rwd car to beat the Audi Quattro.

A special notion goes to the Alpine A110 for being breathtakingly beautiful.

Most interesting modern rally car then? At the moment I'd have to say the Polo WRC, just listen to the sound!



That video gives me goosebumps everytime I see (or hear) it.
 
And having said that... looking at some sources... apparently, WRC cars do produce a bit over 300 hp... but in a huge band from around 3k to the rev limiter. That would suggest that these cars could be making 500 or more ponies without the restrictor. Not far off the 600-odd hp that Group B cars were making. Remove the restrictor and size the turbo accordingly, and 600+ hp is not that difficult to achieve with such hardware.
Quote from 2010, so obviously you meant the now previous generation 2.0 engines and not the current 1.6L engines, but I'd say those (2.0) produced considerably more than 300 hp. The "300" has been the nominal target figure ever since Group A and it's usually the officially touted figure. Especially during the Group A era, excluding the first years, the real norm was likely closer to 400 than 300. On the contrary Group B figures are usually exaggerated.
 
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