Best Wheel?

  • Thread starter Thread starter KinLM
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RacerXX
Aha so the T wheel uses a "Hall Monitor" to keep an eye on us racers…speaking of high school.

Honestly that is one heck of a motor in the T wheel! Fanatec uses what appear to be surplus computer printer motors or similar. But the end result is quite decent.

One thing about cogged belts is that they have a cogging motion which is not desirable. I could get a sense of that when I turned the mechanism when disassembled and with no motor in place. Also, the 5 pole F motor has slight cogging by itself as the poles pass the magnets. I wonder if the T motor has more than 5 poles, that too would be superior. But you'd have to consider the belt drive ratios again.
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I certainly feel that I got smarter. By going by feel Thrustmaster do indead use quite large tooths on the belt. Very noticable when dry simming but feels better when actually racing. If you look for it you will find it though. Most annoying for oval racing where you don´t steer much. At worst it feels like you are stretching a rubber band. I certainly wouldn´t recommend it for an oval racer or I would say it would at least be a big con you have to consider if it´s not better going with a non force feedback wheel as an option. Hoping it will be a bit less noticable when I get the adapter for my 320 mm wheel. 20days and counting... This is really my only real complaint about it as my previous Fanatec wheels was so smooth in operation.

Now don´t read this like you can compare a Turbo S which was my last Fanatec wheel to the T500RS. Entirely different leagues but the Turbo S certainly has a pro on smoothness :)
 
Wow, all of this talk of Newton milimeters, ratio sizes, motor outputs...

Has anyone considered a pretty obvious variable - the size of the wheel/s?

If the top of the line of both (is that what's being compared here?) are identical, Eg. the BMW one and the T500RS' one, then don't worry about it. Otherwise, if one is larger than another, obvously the force acting on a person will, decrease, as the size is increased (or do I have it backward?).

For example, its easier to push a door at its edge, then it is closer to the hinge, as you are multiplying the amount of force which acts upon the hinge the further along you go. In the same manner, the further out your arms are from the centre of the wheel, the less power a motor has.

Here's a top tip then, if you want your wheel to be more powerful, reduce it's size 👍

Would love to buy a T500RS wheel unit stand alone to fix to my G27, wouldn't even want the paddles if that's possible... However then I'd need to apply the Uber mod to the G27 again to increase its pull (All I want is the size, and the buttons).
 
I think a lot have considered that. You didn´t get it backwards. Wonder if 100 mm wheel on a G27 would be enough to get decent torque. But I would rather run with the stock G27 wheel honestly or possible even a somewhat larger wheel more similar to what you find in real cars. If I would attempt to replace it I suppose I would get one of those 265 mm rally style wheels trying to keep weight down to a minimum.

I would rather get a real wheel then the T500RS rim as you can get one for similar money or even lower? May be harder to fit the T500RS rim on the G27 due to it being designed to screw on the T500RS and not the bolt attachment that is used otherwise and where you have ready adapters for that purpose on the G27.

I also don´t know if there is an easy way to get the buttons on T500RS working on a G27 or you would be better on with a SLI plate or similar more professional looking. It just appear more convenient and probably just plain better getting a real racing inspired wheel as well. Though as always if you want them super light you will have to pay up. My RMD Malaga 320 mm rim is at least not heavier then my F1 integral rim
Personally I don´t feel the G27 worthy of pimping but that´s´just my opinion of course.
 
You are all missing the number one reason to own Fanatec products, they are modular. They are the only brand that can swap out components on the console. Lets say you get the GT3rs+CSRE pedals. A couple years later you decide you want a better wheel. You sell your GT3rs, keep your CSRE pedals and get a CSRE wheel. Congrats man, you are all set. If you decide you want a new wheel when you own a Logitech or TM, oh no, looks like you have to get a whole new setup. This is an added value.

Also in terms of service being a problem, if you follow Fanatec's (rather specific) instructions perfectly you should have very few, if any, problems. The only real downside is comparative reliability. You just cannot beat Logitech. IDK what the overall consensus for TM is.

Both the g27 and GT3rs are good choices. I cannot see anyone being disappointed with either.
 
FWIW a G25 can put out around 1.8 lb-ft of torque. Some of the boutique wheels around 7. Roughly 4 from my CSR. This is just the maximum strength and has nothing to do with overall feel and function.
 
RacerXX
FWIW a G25 can put out around 1.8 lb-ft of torque. Some of the boutique wheels around 7. Roughly 4 from my CSR. This is just the maximum strength and has nothing to do with overall feel and function.
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G27 should be double that i think?
 
Lock2Lock
G27 should be double that i think?
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Possibly, however it is not necessarily that simple…two motor G27 versus one motor G25. Because of the gear ratios and firmware. I mean you can have a low torque S2000 accelerate quite well due to revs and gear ratios. Also note that heat cuts output and the manufacturer may have an electronic nanny pulling things back in some cases. Brushed DC motors lose about ½ % torque for every ºC their temperature increases. So on my CSR this can be around a 15-20% drop in torque when it is hot and bothered versus starting from room temperature. Another variable is power supply. CSRs use a regulated supply set to 24 volts that is specified to provide up to 2.5 amps. Measure that voltage under load and it sags to 23.4 volts which tells me the motors want more current but that is that. This leads to about a 4% drop in torque compared to if the supply could hold 24 volts better.

How do the G25 and G27 power supply specs compare?
 
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oqvist
G25 is also dual motor though. DFP GT is a better comparison.
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Yes you're right, thanks.

I'm seeing 24 volts / 1.75 amp supplies are used for the G25/27. DFGT I'm seeing listed at 24 volts /.75 amps. Fan CSR: 24/2.5. Fan CSR-E 24 / 5.0. T500RS: 24 volts / ?? amps
 
Thank you everybody for all the amazing input, I'm absolutely astounded by how helpful the GTP community has been and I think this really shows something about who we are as a community.

I think that it's down to either the G27 or some Fanatec Product, as the all others are either too low in capabilities or too expensive in cost.
 
oqvist
6.67 A on the T500RS which is more then my 17" laptop PSU :)
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Hey if you put a cam in the T500, will that big block motor shake your whole sim setup at idle? ;-)

I looked over the Logi G25 dual and Fana CSR single motor drive circuits and guess what? They use the *SAME* drive ICs! International Rectifier 7103 Dual N Mosfets paired with 7342 Dual P Mosfets in 8 leg SO-8 cases. Interesting…someone use the other as a cheat sheet? Lotta tweaking potential. If your wheel only goes one direction it is one of those chips that went bad. This can happen if a motor gets a short or low resistance.

The Logi seems to run no heat sink (add one for a dollar) and the Fana an inadequate one IMO. I quintupled the heat sink size on my CSRs and relocated the 30 mm exhaust fan that lives under the RHS vent over to the heat sink area. This dropped temps about 50º F which can only help longevity. On the Fanatec the two hottest zones are those two chips followed by the motor. The motor cooling can also be tweaked pretty easily and effectively.
 
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KinLM
Thank you everybody for all the amazing input, I'm absolutely astounded by how helpful the GTP community has been and I think this really shows something about who we are as a community.

I think that it's down to either the G27 or some Fanatec Product, as the all others are either too low in capabilities or too expensive in cost.
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Yeah those are both good choices. If you are a bit of an enthusiast hacker type, the Fanatec's personality may fit best. It's best to have the right attitude with them as F is a small high energy company compared to a Logi which is a behemoth in size by comparison.

The thing I dislike about the Logi is the clicking/rattling noise they exhibit especially if you do much in the way of rally sims. This is due to gear lash in the drive which belt units don't have. For normal simming the Logi G27 with helical gearing is quieter than the straight cut gear G25 and DFGT and rattling is not a big deal.

Reverse gear in real cars are straight cut…they whine. You know the sound. So Logi went helical (like the forward gears in all cars) with the G27, however there is still some lash which can make a sound with a rapid load reversals. Rally sims have much more active road surface signal being sent to the wheel hence they accentuate any lash noise aspects.
 
RacerXX
Hey if you put a cam in the T500, will that big block motor shake your whole sim setup at idle? ;-)

I looked over the Logi G25 dual and Fana CSR single motor drive circuits and guess what? They use the *SAME* drive ICs! International Rectifier 7103 Dual N Mosfets paired with 7342 Dual P Mosfets in 8 leg SO-8 cases. Interesting…someone use the other as a cheat sheet? Lotta tweaking potential. If your wheel only goes one direction it is one of those chips that went bad. This can happen if a motor gets a short or low resistance.

The Logi seems to run no heat sink (add one for a dollar) and the Fana an inadequate one IMO. I quintupled the heat sink size on my CSRs and relocated the 30 mm exhaust fan that lives under the RHS vent over to the heat sink area. This dropped temps about 50º F which can only help longevity. On the Fanatec the two hottest zones are those two chips followed by the motor. The motor cooling can also be tweaked pretty easily and effectively.
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At idle it´s quite calm though in some sims you have this extra motor rpm effect that feels crap on a lot of wheels but on this purrs like a cat. Though it appear to distract a bit from the regular feedback so don´t run it that often :).

But there is rubber casing around it which make my monitor shake around a lot less then I remembered on the Turbo S actually. I don´t have a proper monitor stand so that is the only thing that can get wobbly. However the ffb does seemingly transplant down to my seat. Anyway it´s really quite impressive how silent it operates. Minus the toothed belt that is and the fan when it kicks in of course :). Low or high ffb it doesn´t matter what so ever in noise levels.
 
I started with the driving force Gt and can reccomend it as a start off wheel at it does everything you need and in 2 years of daily use it never broke once. When the time came to upgrade the only choice for me was the T500rs and TH8 shifter. The reason for the choice is that although the G27 is a decent wheel (although not a high end wheel) its not hugely different to the DFGT. Yes the pedals are better and you get a 'H' shifter but the feedback through the wheel isn't much different. Also the T500rs is PC compatble so if like me you have aspirations to get into PC sim racing you will be ready to go with the t500rs! The force feedback is so accurate smooth and strong you can really feel when the car gets loose sooner and therefore have more chance of catching it. Also the pedals which none really talks about are very good and although not load cell are better than the G27 ones in my opinion. There is a load cell available from Bodin (do a google search) which is plug and play and works for PS3 and PC and doesn't affect the warrenty. I set up my TH8 shifter yesterday and its excellent. Its obviously slower using the 'H' pattern shifter and clutch but its so real and make it so immersive. Finally when I did my research people were moaning about the paddles not being mounted to the wheel which means that they are stationary and don't move which the wheel. People have called this a design fault but it really isn't. In real life cars like lambo's and ferrari's have exactally the same set-up. Also you do get used to them and I've only found a handfull of occasions where I needed to shift midcorner and found I couldn't reach the paddles which is why I got the TH8 so I'm covered and can use it in sequential mode in addition to the paddles. Finally as mentioned in other threads the t500rs make the G27 and DFGT look like a childs toy. This really is a decent well made bit of kit and is in no way a toy as on the box it says not for under 16's due to the strength of the FF. If you need any more info pm me.
 
As for the static shifter paddles:

At the moment (although I own the F1 add-on wheel) I race open wheelers in iRacing.

Yesterday 34 Laps IndyCar race at Motegi. The stationary paddles are no issue at all! In the whole race there was not a single situation, where I couldn't reach the paddle for shifting.

I also did a Monaco TT (GT5) with the Ferrari F10 some time ago with this setup. Only place where I had to take care was Loews hairpin.

It's just a matter of practice.

Most of the guys who complain about the static shifters didn't ever use them IMHO.
 
Just curious.. Done a little research online and so far have found completely useless answers for this simple question.. Does the G27 work with PC?
 
Yes. I've used mine with Dirt 3, on PC. buttons work, steering works, on a side note, I do not reccomend Dirt 3, but for other titles, it should be great.
 
Conza
Yes. I've used mine with Dirt 3, on PC. buttons work, steering works, on a side note, I do not reccomend Dirt 3, but for other titles, it should be great.
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Anyway wheel for dirt 3 sucks. Too bad too
 
KinLM
Just curious.. Done a little research online and so far have found completely useless answers for this simple question.. Does the G27 work with PC?
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If you go to Fanatec's website it will state that it is compatible with PS3 and PC.
 
Ripster
If you go to Fanatec's website it will state that it is compatible with PS3 and PC.
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Interesting. I haven't found much information about Logitech wheels on the Fanatec website, other than that you can use G27 pedals with some of the Fanatec wheels.

But seriously, there shouldn't be any problem using any Logitech wheel on PC, you just might need to download a driver to make it fully functional. They aren't exclusively designed for the PS3.
 
Morgoth_666
Interesting. I haven't found much information about Logitech wheels on the Fanatec website, other than that you can use G27 pedals with some of the Fanatec wheels.

But seriously, there shouldn't be any problem using any Logitech wheel on PC, you just might need to download a driver to make it fully functional. They aren't exclusively designed for the PS3.
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Sorry mis-read the question... but the answer is that it is compatible with both PS3 and PC.
 
Ripster
Sorry mis-read the question... but the answer is that it is compatible with both PS3 and PC.
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Yes it is as for many if not all of logitech products.

Also hints the reason the G27 comes with Rfactor
 
CJDA9
It actually just comes with the demo. 👍👍
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Yes but still. I was indicating it comes with a PC game.

And if I am correct it was originally built for PC right?
 
Morgoth_666
Interesting. I haven't found much information about Logitech wheels on the Fanatec website, other than that you can use G27 pedals with some of the Fanatec wheels.

But seriously, there shouldn't be any problem using any Logitech wheel on PC, you just might need to download a driver to make it fully functional. They aren't exclusively designed for the PS3.
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? Dfp gt is the wheel that is designed for consoles. G27 is primarily designed for pc usage. Though they both work equally well on both platforms of course
 

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