Calling gran turismo 7 a Simcade is a joke.

The entirety of Gran Turismo 7 is a joke, let's be honest. Can't believe how bad it is all around.

At the moment, my new frustration is trying to pass License test "IA-3 Dirt Driving: Expert" where the ghost car gets a gold time on dirt tires and some moron at Polyphony Digital decided I'd have to do it on Racing Hard tires.....
That's a bug introduced in the last patch. It sucks, but bugs happen and it'll probably be fixed fairly quickly.
WTF is Forza doing in the same category as Dirt 2.0 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dirt Rally 2, WRC 10 and a fully patched RBR seem like the best "full sim" candidates available at the moment as far as loose surfaces go. A "sim-lite" rally would be something more like Dirt 4.
 
WTF is Forza doing in the same category as Dirt 2.0 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Both are simcades. Or do you think DR2 has better tarmac physics than Forza? There is no dirt.
Dirt Rally 2, WRC 10 and a fully patched RBR seem like the best "full sim" candidates available at the moment as far as loose surfaces go. A "sim-lite" rally would be something more like Dirt 4.
Dirt 4 is hardly simcade.
 
Simcade is literally the dumbest terminology ever devised to describe racing games.

Put iRacing in a cabinet with a wheel and stick it in an Arcade somewhere and boom, it's an arcade game. Put it in a fancy computer and stick it inside the Mercedes F1 factory attached to an F1 car, boom, simulator.

It's that easy to break the logic applied to these conversations, because by definition, both of those are correct. Every game simulates something or everything to varying degrees. I've seen others mention things like fidelity and such like and that's a great way to describe it. @PJTierney summed that up better than I ever can.
 
It's easy, if it simulates almost everything, it's a simulator. It if doesn't care about real life physics, it's an arcade. If there are real life basics tuned to play it easily, it's a simcade. You don't need much more. It's not even precise but it's good for start. If you don't like simcade word we can have anything different.
 
Dunno what you lot are on, but driving in GT7 has been harder for me than both ACC and DR2. Genuinely. A heap of aspects of the game might not be fully realistic, but to me simcade has always been more along the lines of how earlier GT/Forza/DriveClub/etc feel. My two øre.
 
There is no clear border but DR2 is not a sim and ACC is completely different level than GT7. That's the reason.
 
Dunno what you lot are on, but driving in GT7 has been harder for me than both ACC and DR2. Genuinely. A heap of aspects of the game might not be fully realistic, but to me simcade has always been more along the lines of how earlier GT/Forza/DriveClub/etc feel. My two øre.

GT7 is harder because it's not real. A real sim is intuitive to your own driving experience.

Ive been on Mid Ohio a few times, London training track, and the Honda test track in Marysville Ohio several times as well. Ive also driven aggressive and fast for over 20 years in my dayjob. I've crashed a few times due to my overdriving.

GT7 has some things correct, especially the lower horsepower FWD cars. They respond how I suspect them to. But the rest I've driven, something is off, as if theyve artificially increased the difficulty level just to make it harder.

ACC isn't really in the same league. The feeling of weight, the inertia, the tire slip angle, the braking, everything feels real and intuitive.


Ps. Imari just posted the same thing as I did for why GT7 seems harder.
 
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Dirt 4 is hardly simcade.
It's not arcade. It's not a simulation. It's somewhere in between. It has some realistic aspects, but they're modified to be simpler, more forgiving, more intuitive. It's absolutely a simcade.

But not all simcades are created equal either. It's definitely towards the arcade end of the spectrum, where Gran Turismo is definitely towards the simulation end. And there's a reason why I didn't say Dirt 5 as the example.
Put iRacing in a cabinet with a wheel and stick it in an Arcade somewhere and boom, it's an arcade game. Put it in a fancy computer and stick it inside the Mercedes F1 factory attached to an F1 car, boom, simulator.
That's not what either term means in this context and you know it.
Dunno what you lot are on, but driving in GT7 has been harder for me than both ACC and DR2. Genuinely. A heap of aspects of the game might not be fully realistic, but to me simcade has always been more along the lines of how earlier GT/Forza/DriveClub/etc feel. My two øre.
That's one of the funny things, if you know how to drive in real life a simcade like GT or FM is probably harder to get used to than something like ACC or DR. Those games pretty reliably behave as you would expect in the real world, and when you have trouble the solutions are real world applicable as well.

Stuff like GT and FM are actually harder for people with real driving experience to just jump into, because they don't behave quite correctly. They're 90% there, but there's just some stuff where it's not quite right. It's like listening to someone speak but every tenth word is in gibberish. You probably understand, but it's just a wee bit harder.
 
It's not arcade. It's not a simulation. It's somewhere in between. It has some realistic aspects, but they're modified to be simpler, more forgiving, more intuitive. It's absolutely a simcade.
OK, we should clarify what we are talking about. WRX physics is simple but could be a simcade. Landrush is rather arcade. Rally is arcade. Overall it's hardly simcade.
 
I've never seen 'simcade' as derogatory. For me, it's just a useful guide to know what to expect from a game.
But then I go way back when 'arcade' wasn't a dirty word.
It can be derogatory by association. Implication. I've seen plenty of elitist sim snobs try to pull that

You'll likely find the heat where Project CARS 2, Gran Turismo or Assetto Corsa are. Any of these titles come up in debates so often where the terms simcade or arcade prop up. However Assetto Corsa is widely accepted as the only Sim in this trio, despite the inaccuracies of the physics mostly noticed when tuning the car for top 10 records, pre-updates some cars were worthy of the title "Icetto Corsa" (lol) and terribly basic aerodynamics, from what I've heard.
 
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I think the right term is sim lite. It's not perfect and there are certainly imperfections but what games doesn't? PD found the sweet spot with physics in this game, if they can sort some issues through updates it would help improve the overall driving experience. GT will never be a hardcore sim and never claimed to be, it's for everyone.
GT7 is harder because it's not real. A real sim is intuitive to your own driving experience.

Ive been on Mid Ohio a few times, London training track, and the Honda test track in Marysville Ohio several times as well. Ive also driven aggressive and fast for over 20 years in my dayjob. I've crashed a few times due to my overdriving.

GT7 has some things correct, especially the lower horsepower FWD cars. They respond how I suspect them to. But the rest I've driven, something is off, as if theyve artificially increased the difficulty level just to make it harder.

ACC isn't really in the same league. The feeling of weight, the inertia, the tire slip angle, the braking, everything feels real and intuitive.


Ps. Imari just posted the same thing as I did for why GT7 seems harder.
I'm not sure if you were here during GT5/6 era, but ironically critics called the physics of GT back then as arcade because it's too easy to drive, then pc sims are much realistic because they're harder. Now, we've gone full circle, funny how nature does that. Anyways, I've played GT7 with both wheel and DS and cars are not hard to drive at all, some cars have exaggerated oversteer but I'm confident they'll sort it out. GTSport had grip issues when it came out and as far as I remember PD released an update not long after.
 
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Stuff like GT and FM are actually harder for people with real driving experience to just jump into, because they don't behave quite correctly. They're 90% there, but there's just some stuff where it's not quite right. It's like listening to someone speak but every tenth word is in gibberish. You probably understand, but it's just a wee bit harder.
This is so true. So many times I had to assure people they will love simulators after GT or Forza mostly because it's easier and more fun. Once you step into sims, there is no way back.
 
I'm not sure if you were here during GT5/6 era, but ironically critics called the physics of GT back then as arcade because it's to easy to drive, then pc sims are much realistic because they're harder.
No, that's what idiots said. Critics said the physics of GT5 weren't good because they didn't accurately reflect real life car behaviour, and more "hardcore" sims did. The "harder is gooder" thing is a meme that died out in the GPL days.
 
Simcade is just a name that describes the genre, Gt, Forza, Grid etc... all fall into the simcade sphere. The games are sort of Sims but take liberties with that sim or are a little light sim wise. They usually have a friendlier face and are meant more for a quick pick up and play.
They clearly aren't full Sims. It's not a negative moniker, it's just the genre of game. You say simcade and you know exactly what games someone is talking about, you say full Sims and you know those, you say arcade racer and you know those as well.
 
Who cares, it really doesn't matter and only severs to divide folks when they should be talking about the fun they have racing.

Play and race what you enjoy.

Be polite and respectful enough to give the same courtesy to other folks regardless of what they enjoy or have fun with.

Seem simple enough to simple old me.
 
I think the perfect term is sim lite. It's not perfect and there are certainly imperfections but what games doesn't? PD found the sweet spot with physics in this game, if they can sort some issues through updates it would help improve the overall driving experience. GT will never be a hardcore sim and never claimed to be, it's for everyone.

I'm not sure if you were here during GT5/6 era, but ironically critics called the physics of GT back then as arcade because it's to easy to drive, then pc sims are much realistic because they're harder. Now, we've gone full circle, funny how nature does that. Anyways, I've played GT7 with both wheel and DS and cars not hard to drive at all, some cars have exaggerated oversteer but I'm confident they'll sort it out, GTSport had grip issues when it came out and as far as I remember PD released an update not long after.
It's indeed how nature and by extension, people, work. One trend goes up, everyone jumps on the bandwagon to stay relevant, then it gets beaten by another trend, soon enough that latest trend dies out and you end up with the original trend again, but maybe it's in the other direction...

Just look at how often fashion doesn't invent anything new but borrows or parodies it's old "outdated" styles then makes them trendy and new again. We work in cycles. Round and round we go. Nature. Evolution. Human thought. Consciousness. I'll prefer not to follow the crowd's opinion on controversial arguments, but to instead sit in the dingy corner to talk sense, because I like verisimilitude.

As for most the major "critics" that are just sellouts... they'll say anything as long as it's what their peers are saying too. Money talks, man
 
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Who cares, it really doesn't matter and only severs to divide folks when they should be talking about the fun they have racing.

Play and race what you enjoy.

Be polite and respectful enough to give the same courtesy to other folks regardless of what they enjoy or have fun with.

Seem simple enough to simple old me.
It's completely useless. Games are different for different people. Sorting is first thing you need to do. What about growing? I started with simple physics like GT and Forza have and then found out there are much better games. But I had to train hard to fully enjoy full sims.
 
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Diet Sim. None of the tyre pressures, all of the flavour.
funny you mentioned it, silly forza fanboys were able to change tire pressure for almost a decade and they always called it simcade, now big boy gt here always was considered as an arcade, at least to me, if anyone actually drove a real racing car on a track gt doesn't even come close, they still can't get the sense of speed right unless you sit under the bumper, for some reason in gt7 it's actually harder to drive than a real car, probably because tires are all wrong, but heck what could i possibly know lol
 
Dunno what you lot are on, but driving in GT7 has been harder for me than both ACC and DR2. Genuinely. A heap of aspects of the game might not be fully realistic, but to me simcade has always been more along the lines of how earlier GT/Forza/DriveClub/etc feel. My two øre.
Harder doesn't mean more real.
That's not what either term means in this context and you know it.
Perhaps. But it also shows the total irrelevance of the argument being as the meanings, mean absolutely nothing.
 
Perhaps. But it also shows the total irrelevance of the argument being as the meanings, mean absolutely nothing.
Are we back at words are just sounds with arbitrary meanings that can be whatever you want them to? Let's just string some arbitrary sounds together. Constable Frozen milkshake-ducked for being horny on main.

If you don't want to understand, you're not going to understand. But words like these get used because they're a useful shorthand for talking about broader trends in gaming. You don't seem like the sort to get into those types of discussions, so many to you they mean nothing. They're irrelevant, because you have no use for describing the nuance they're communicating.

To others who are interested in Gran Turismo, where it fits in the greater genre, and how it relates to other games of a similar type it can be a useful concept. Like it or not, Gran Turismo doesn't exist in a bubble and so having language to be able to start to place where it fits is nice. Those words have meanings, just not to you.
 
Are we back at words are just sounds with arbitrary meanings that can be whatever you want them to? Let's just string some arbitrary sounds together. Constable Frozen milkshake-ducked for being horny on main.

If you don't want to understand, you're not going to understand. But words like these get used because they're a useful shorthand for talking about broader trends in gaming. You don't seem like the sort to get into those types of discussions, so many to you they mean nothing. They're irrelevant, because you have no use for describing the nuance they're communicating.

To others who are interested in Gran Turismo, where it fits in the greater genre, and how it relates to other games of a similar type it can be a useful concept. Like it or not, Gran Turismo doesn't exist in a bubble and so having language to be able to start to place where it fits is nice. Those words have meanings, just not to you.
Go check the definition of arcade game. I'll wait. When you come back, stop taking everything so seriously.

if you want serious, Simcade is just another meaningless word because it means different things to different people and it's goal posts get moved by whoever is talking. The games that get categorised as simcade are categorised as that because of accessibility, ease, action or relative detail of various physics systems. Simulation is a term whose goalposts don't move, likewise arcade has a set definition, and even outside of that definition, there's a very clear set of games that fit this interpreted term.

If people want to invent a meaning for it, they are welcome to, but as it has no set parameters and is based purely on opinion, it means nothing to me.
 
If people want to invent a meaning for it, they are welcome to, but as it has no set parameters and is based purely on opinion, it means nothing to me.
All words are written into a dictionary. Why? Because we give them meaning. Meaning itself is invented and has to be in order to make sense of anything and to progress, to evolve. It means nothing to you because you're not interested in this discussion; seems you're unwilling to understand it but complacent to spout drivel.
 
All words are written into a dictionary. Why? Because we give them meaning. Meaning itself is invented and has to be in order to make sense of anything and to progress, to evolve. It means nothing to you because you're not interested in this discussion; seems you're unwilling to understand it but complacent to spout drivel.
Simcade isn't in the Oxford English dictionary, thereby it hasn't been given meaning and hasn't been recognised as a word, if that is the route you would like to take this discussion.

I have a willingness to contribute and have, and I have a willingness to understand, and do, that doesn't mean I have to blindly agree with everyone else's 'drivel'.
 

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