Calling gran turismo 7 a Simcade is a joke.

[Smokey Yunick]

Honestly. Some people calling it a simcade just because they play pc simulators, is a joke.

It’s a simulation. Yes it could be even more greater than it is already, if PD had the power, but it’s a simulated racing driving game. It’s also a very good driving simulation at that.

A simulation is a mathematical interpretation of a real world. Driving, art, cars and real world details implemented into a game.

Gran turismo 7 is a simulation, not a Simcade.

Sorry dude but sims are about realism which GT7 isn’t I saw a fully tuned GT40 doing 379MPH that’s so unrealistic and diving into the pits at 150mph is also unrealistic what makes a sim a sim is realism which GT7 just doesn’t have play ACC then you’ll see what a sim is you have to pit your own car not speed in the pit lane etc.. not have auto drive take over and AI do the stop for you GT7 isn’t even a SimCade game it’s an Arcade style racing RPG

 

[wheelhp]

Okay...but if you've never played Assetto Corsa or something similar with a FFB wheel, you probably can't comment. The driving experience just has another level of immersion on those games. GT7 has great handling for what it is, but I think the tyre physics in particular are holding it back from giving it that top-level immersive driving feel.

One hundered percent. The tyre physics are rather underdeveloped, even rudimentary. But that could still change. The game's just launched with 424 cars and a track count to match it.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

I posted this on Reddit a few days ago:

100% spot-on.

Sorry dude but sims are about realism which GT7 isn’t I saw a fully tuned GT40 doing 379MPH that’s so unrealistic and diving into the pits at 150mph is also unrealistic what makes a sim a sim is realism which GT7 just doesn’t have play ACC then you’ll see what a sim is you have to pit your own car not speed in the pit lane etc.. not have auto drive take over and AI do the stop for you GT7 isn’t even a SimCade game it’s an Arcade style racing RPG

There's always one person who joins a forum purely to respond to an industry professional with an extreme-level trash take in a condescending manner.

 

[O604]

I may be rememebering it wrong but I think the term simcade could be a Sony term coined around the PS2 era. They may have initially intended it to mean playable with both controller or wheel.

And then I think the meaning changed. The PC, mostly wheel only market started to imply simcade was lower than simulation or whatever.

 

[GTskilled90]

I would never care for those "never driven in real life" virgins who wanna have a discussion about driving physics. Most guys see a car spinning and think it's a Sim.

 

[MroczMR]

For me the main problem with Arcade/Simcade/Sim wording is that many think this as "0","1" value. And in fact, some games have different aspects of driving better than others and some worse.

For example. Wreckfest isn't particulary thought as simulation game, but damage physics are far better than even RFactor or Assetto Corsa... so... is it sim or arcade then? It is just stupid. There are more realistic driving games and less realistic ones it is just it. For me GT7 is a simulator, less realistic than ACC but still a sim.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

I may be rememebering it wrong but I think the term simcade could be a Sony term coined around the PS2 era. They may have initially intended it to mean playable with both controller or wheel.

And then I think the meaning changed. The PC, mostly wheel only market started to imply simcade was lower than simulation or whatever.

Yep, they used it in marketing, then the PC-sim elitists more or less hijacked it as a derogatory blanket term towards anything on a console (almost exclusively for the GT series as whole).

It happens in every industry, when one brand is the market leader interms of sales generated, there's always a derogatory term for that market leader (e.g. wrestling fans calling WWE "sports entertainment").

I think what's hilarious is that a lot of the people throwing that term around think they're well placed to make a call on realism when really the full extent of their experience driving in real world motorsport is precisely zero, which is where we end up back at this diagram:

When it comes to realism we should only really be listening to those who do both sim and real-life racing, not the "forum fannies" to borrow a term from mid-00's drum & bass.

 

[Sjokkomoes]

GT7 might be the worst car-game I`ve ever tryed, and I`ve been playin since the last war somewhere

Unless you are talking about the Ukraine war, Id say you have not tried a lot of racing games over the last years.

 

[GingerBredMan]

No one cares about the arcade/simulation debate except for annoying and pretentious iRacing/AC snobs

iRacing/AC snob here to point out that this was posted in a Gran Turismo channel .

But honestly, let’s call GT7 a simulator. Now what? What does that change?

 

[graesand]

One hundered percent. The tyre physics are rather underdeveloped, even rudimentary. But that could still change. The game's just launched with 424 cars and a track count to match it.

The game launched with a couple more cars then gtsport, most of them hidden behind a broken game mechanic. The game has like five tracks over gtsport. The main carreer mode i finished in Three days (cafes and two licenses). The physics are debatable at best. Microtransactions are advertised everywhere and the online mode us utterly broken. This is by far the most uncomplete GT to date.

When i pay full price i expect a finished product. Gt7 is very much not finished, barely playable for some actually.

Lets call it a sim just for the sake of it.
If FR roadcars drive like this irl im pretty sure driving would be banned alltogether...

 

[unfairlane]

iRacing/AC snob here to point out that this was posted in a Gran Turismo channel .

But honestly, let’s call GT7 a simulator. Now what? What does that change?

I think the question is moore like; what does it simulate?

 

[Bogie 19th]

Honestly. Some people calling it a simcade just because they play pc simulators, is a joke.

It’s a simulation. Yes it could be even more greater than it is already, if PD had the power, but it’s a simulated racing driving game. It’s also a very good driving simulation at that.

A simulation is a mathematical interpretation of a real world. Driving, art, cars and real world details implemented into a game.

Gran turismo 7 is a simulation, not a Simcade.

It is a simcade. I might even say a cadesim. That said, it's an awesome game.

 

[ICEYOU3]

Some pretty good takes here on this subject, I'm actually surprised lol

 

[GTxForza]

If we don't agree with these kinds of opinions, we rather ignore them.

 

[McLaren66]

As David Perel said "none of them are perfect so let's not go there".

 

[Daz555]

As someone who plays iRacing, AC, AMS2, rFactor2, Forza Horizon, Gran Turismo, Heat & Mario Kart amongst others I have no issues with using simcade to describe some of these games. It just fits right for me.

 

[unfairlane]

"Driver" (-99) was my first car game. Have it still on my pc, it has moore realistic car-physics than GT7

 

[GingerBredMan]

I think there’s also a misconception that Simulator racing is somehow the pinnacle of racing. Sim racing is challenging, but not always fun. While I think the driving can be more enjoyable in an ACC or iRacing, that doesn’t at all imply that they’re better games that GT7.

Gran Turismo has been a popular franchise because of its user friendliness, and they shouldn’t change that. How it’s defined compared to ACC or iRacing shouldn’t make a difference cause they’re ultimately for different audiences.

 

[Samus]

Call it whatever you want, it's just a label. Won't change the fact that it's not on the same level as ACC, pCARS 2, iRacing etc when it comes to car and racing simulation.

And there is also NOTHING wrong with that. It is what it is, and always has been.

 

[Strittan]

The real joke is calling it a racing game.

This.

 

[Silvio]

GT7 is a great game i"m really lovin it. But is much more cade than sim unfortunately.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Anybody gatekeeping with the term "simcade" has some personal ego issues they need to sort out on their own time.

 

[wheelhp]

The game launched with a couple more cars then gtsport, most of them hidden behind a broken game mechanic. The game has like five tracks over gtsport. The main carreer mode i finished in Three days (cafes and two licenses). The physics are debatable at best. Microtransactions are advertised everywhere and the online mode us utterly broken. This is by far the most uncomplete GT to date.

When i pay full price i expect a finished product. Gt7 is very much not finished, barely playable for some actually.

Lets call it a sim just for the sake of it.
If FR roadcars drive like this irl im pretty sure driving would be banned alltogether...

For the people that didn't play Sport nor every GT, they see the car count and track count and think "splendid" when you look at the insane detail on the cars

GT7 has a rather unfinished career but the car count and track count are decent on it's own merits, ignoring all the other GT titles. It is unfortunate that there's no new tracks, just variations. I'd only agree in that the physics are horrifically in need of a few updates.

 

[McLaren66]

"Driver" (-99) was my first car game. Have it still on my pc, it has moore realistic car-physics than GT7

Nah Pole Position for Atari 2600 is what real men play.

 

[wheelhp]

Anybody gatekeeping with the term "simcade" has some personal ego issues they need to sort out on their own time.

This goes for a lot of labels, outside the sim community too. Labels are often crude and misused in arguements. Same thing with stereotypes about other people.

 

[wheelhp]

no problem with simcade... at least its not arcade like needforspeed

I dunno man Need for Speed Porsche Unleashed was far from an arcade....

 

[Imari]

This goes for a lot of labels, outside the sim community too. Labels are often crude and misused in arguements. Same thing with stereotypes about other people.

It's kind of a problem with the people rather than a problem with the labels though, right? There's valid uses for a label that describes games like Gran Turismo that are simplified, user friendly versions of the "hardcore" simulators which are inherently unforgiving and will attempt to simulate reality even when it's obviously unfun.

We can pick another word, but in a year it'll just be getting used in the exact same way because the problem is the elitist attitude, not the terminology. Until the sim elitists realise that there's actual value in having what is functionally an entry level sim that encourages people to play, learn and enjoy the sport of sim racing they're going to continue to be assholes about it. And we should call out the being assholes about it rather than shifting the blame to whatever words they're using.

Look at how many words the gay community has gone through trying to stay ahead of the people using them abusively. It's fighting against the tide.

While we're here though, there's absolutely also Gran Turismo players who would like the term abolished so that they can claim that GT is every bit as much a simulator as anything else out there. And I'm sorry, but no. It may be more fun as a game, but it's far from competing with any of the top sims.

 

[xNOVA415x]

The entirety of Gran Turismo 7 is a joke, let's be honest. Can't believe how bad it is all around.

At the moment, my new frustration is trying to pass License test "IA-3 Dirt Driving: Expert" where the ghost car gets a gold time on dirt tires and some moron at Polyphony Digital decided I'd have to do it on Racing Hard tires.....

 

[wheelhp]

It's kind of a problem with the people rather than a problem with the labels though, right? There's valid uses for a label that describes games like Gran Turismo that are simplified, user friendly versions of the "hardcore" simulators which are inherently unforgiving and will attempt to simulate reality even when it's obviously unfun.

We can pick another word, but in a year it'll just be getting used in the exact same way because the problem is the elitist attitude, not the terminology. Until the sim elitists realise that there's actual value in having what is functionally an entry level sim that encourages people to play, learn and enjoy the sport of sim racing they're going to continue to be assholes about it. And we should call out the being assholes about it rather than shifting the blame to whatever words they're using.

Look at how many words the gay community has gone through trying to stay ahead of the people using them abusively. It's fighting against the tide.

While we're here though, there's absolutely also Gran Turismo players who would like the term abolished so that they can claim that GT is every bit as much a simulator as anything else out there. And I'm sorry, but no. It may be more fun as a game, but it's far from competing with any of the top sims.

Well put! Agreed that it's a people problem. Most Labels only start becoming problematic when they're misused by people who gatekeep and knowingly or unknowingly play the blame game towards other people etc. There are some labels that are outright confusing and should be abolished but in the context of this debate specifically, I don't find much.

GT7 is objectively not anywhere near the level of simulation in the top Simulators out there, so that "it's a sim" line of thinking is likely from the relentless marketing of GT being "the real driving simulator". Which it is not. But it'll be good fun when they get the balance right after many updates, regardless of if the label people call it "sim" "simcade" "arcade" or any variation thereof. I'll still play it because it's still gonna be good fun at the end of the day, it doesn't need to be a full on 1:1 simulation , but the marketing of it as exactly that is hilarious.

 

[OldSilentHill]

Simcade is the dumbest term ever coined by the sim racing community groupthink. I prefer "sim-lite" because what is known as a "simcade" is still simulating, and equating it in some way with arcade by tagging the "cade" on the end is just a less aggressive way of an elitist attack on a title that may not be of their liking. Only true "arcade" racers are not trying to simulate anything in reality.

My examples would be:

Arcade: Ridge Racer, Burnout Paradise, Outrun
Sim-lite: GT7, WRC 10, DiRT Rally 2.0, Forza
Full sim: Assetto Corsa Competizione, rFactor 2, Automobilista 2

I look at it more as being what kind of simulation value a title brings to the table. High simulation value means everything is being modeled (as correctly as possible): air pressure, elevation, tire temps, tire pressures, aero, green/rubbered track, etc... ACC for example has all that and I consider it a full sim. GT7 does not have all of the elements required to be a full sim, but that doesn't mean GT7 ceases to be a sim. It's still a simulation of driving automobiles, albeit with less overall simulation value.

The #1 criteria for me is if the physics are intuitive, no matter how basic the rest of the game is. This is a problem I had with Project CARS 2 which has very high simulation value but handling that did not feel intuitive to me. ACC on the other hand is a game with very high simulation value but does feel intuitive. That's why I put 200 hours into ACC and around 10 hours into PC2. GT7 feels intuitive to me. So I enjoy it even though it is lacking in simulation value.

And if you think things are bad around here, try Race Department or worse, a lot of the streamers from Spain who slap "arcade" on anything that isn't iRacing or DiRT Rally (which is an oxymoron in itself).

WTF is Forza doing in the same category as Dirt 2.0 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣