Can PD Fix NASCAR in a Patch? (Read OP)

[Bigbazz]

Raikkonen is a perfect example for the exact reason that he's an open wheel driver. I'm trying to point out that it's not meant to be easy, if it's a simulator then average joe NASCAR fan is not going to be able to run a lap around Daytona at racing speeds. Even a world class Formula 1 driver had issues, if you watched his races then the team rated him very highly, but he had difficulties with it and found the cars were not easy to drive, he had a couple of scary moments where he almost lost it.

The guy thinks it's broken because he can't drive properly, why should an average gamer find it easy when some of the best drivers in the world find it difficult? NASCAR drivers are some of the highest skilled drivers in the world and these cars are big fat boats of racing cars with little downforce and no brakes. The guy is suggesting changing them back to GT5 where the Stock Cars were as I've said almost competitive with LMP1 cars in laptimes. If you know anything about these LMP1 cars they are pure high downforce racing machines, absolute grip monsters. A Stock car is not a fast car on a road circuit.

Concerning the draft, hell it even happens in a road car if you for example follow a lorry too closely and then move out into clean air it affects the balance of the car. When you're up at 200mph and there are cars all around you, sitting in a little pocket behind another car when you move out it effects the balance of the car and if you're not ready for it or the car isn't placed right it can cause the rear end to snap out on you, that doesn't mean you can't catch it. Like I said I only watch a couple per year and I try to catch Daytona and Charlotte, and I've seen it happen a few times.

To be honest though most of my perspective comes from racing iRacing stock cars, which gives you a far better perspective or viewpoint than you could ever get from watching a race. GT6 NASCAR is no more realistic than the Rallying or the Formula 1. GT5 NASCAR was a complete joke though.

 

[MrUnknown]

"Be careful, the car is heavy."

 

[trustjab]

No it's not, the level of power is cut down to 450 with restrictor plates at the Super speedways, also down force and mechanical grip are a massive issue with NASCAR at this moment and thus make it difficult to generate enough of a force to pass a car ahead of you, it also makes dirty air a more prevalent issue. Go read the NASCAR thread there are articles showing this and people that know, I've never seen you on it so not sure where you've got your info from.

what? I dont know what Im talking about because I dont follow the Nascar threads? Right! Silly me. I dont know your sources, but wikipedia doesn't count. In qualifying these cars alone still touch 180mph, youll have to show me how a 3400lb. car with 450hp and its too much "downforce" issue reaches those speeds. What Nascar says and what the actual power being made are two different things. Much like Audi touting their R18 Quattro has "510hp" but still turns 3:23's at LeMans.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

what? I dont know what Im talking about because I dont follow the Nascar threads? Right! Silly me. I dont know your sources, but wikipedia doesn't count.

There you go assuming again, first off I've watched NASCAR for 20+ years I have friends that I went to school with that majored in Mech. Engineering only to later go work in NC with small time operations and in all NASCAR ranges. So how about you quit with the insults due to your lack of substance every time I comment and disagree with you. I said nothing rude to you so why you've gone all defensive is beyond me.

In qualifying these cars alone still touch 180mph, youll have to show me how a 3400lb. car with 450hp and its too much "downforce" issue reaches those speeds. What Nascar says and what the actual power being made are two different things. Much like Audi touting their R18 Quattro has "510hp" but still turns 3:23's at LeMans.

No the Gen 6 cars touch 194mph alone in qualifying as I stated already, Gen 6 cars are faster than their Gen 5 predecessors. If you need further proof go look at the charts from this year that show this. Also I did say it has too much down force generation for the pack racing it does and this is from drivers and teams themselves, the sanctioning body is out of touch with what the sport needs, but that is off topic and if you want to learn more go to the proper thread. Anyways the downforce and mechanical grip these cars create for the tracks they go to makes it hard for a following car to pass in real life sort of the issue seen with F1 before DRS and KERS/ERS

Also more power doesn't always equate into a faster lap considering the more technological F1 cars of the 2000s hold track records while the more powerful 80s and early 90s cars don't. Also do you know how downforce works?

 

[trustjab]

I dont need to learn more. Nascar is not of interest to me. Dont claim things like I dont know what Im talking about and direct me to threads which is my point. You know 450hp is conservative for power levels. As is Audis 510hp. Their flywheel kers system makes 200hp for short bursts of 2.5-3 seconds, for something around 7 times per lap. That doesn't make them able to hit mid 3:20's at LeMans. They obviously make much more than they claim. Go to mulsannescorner or dailysportscar or racecarengineering. Those are much more reliable than forums.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Raikkonen is a perfect example for the exact reason that he's an open wheel driver. I'm trying to point out that it's not meant to be easy, if it's a simulator then average joe NASCAR fan is not going to be able to run a lap around Daytona at racing speeds. Even a world class Formula 1 driver had issues, if you watched his races then the team rated him very highly, but he had difficulties with it and found the cars were not easy to drive, he had a couple of scary moments where he almost lost it.

Yes it's not easy I agree, but you've used the wrong logic here. There have been successful open wheel driver that convert to NASCAR, however F1 isn't the series, it's been CART or Indy. World Class F1 driver? Sounds a bit elitist as if the fan made title should enable instant success, the two racing series are night and day. I did watch a couple and of course the team rated him highly, he had credentials in everything outside of NASCAR, and they were difficult for him due to an already solid skill set that doesn't work for NASCAR. Even a driver like JPM took years before he became a regular top 15 driver.

The guy thinks it's broken because he can't drive properly, why should an average gamer find it easy when some of the best drivers in the world find it difficult? NASCAR drivers are some of the highest skilled drivers in the world and these cars are big fat boats of racing cars with little downforce and no brakes. The guy is suggesting changing them back to GT5 where the Stock Cars were as I've said almost competitive with LMP1 cars in laptimes. If you know anything about these LMP1 cars they are pure high downforce racing machines, absolute grip monsters. A Stock car is not a fast car on a road circuit.

I already agreed with the guy not being able to drive, and told him to adjust the car, not expect that you can buy it from the dealership and go win at Daytona. Also wrong again, you people either watch the series and follow it's updates or you dont, the notion that these cars make little down force still is something that was fine to say during the 90s, but the Gen 6 has greatly increased mechanical grip and downforce compared to Gen 5 and that was one of the highlights.

They shouldn't go back to GT5 I agree. But if you test any racing car in GT5 you'll see that in even average hands the cars smash track times of real life counter parts. You take that same LMP1 car and you'll have a related amount of distance between it and the stock car like you see in real life. The issue is the real life times and GT track times are far off no matter what.

I never said a stock car was faster car or a super fast car on a road course, they're fast but not extremely fast.

Concerning the draft, hell it even happens in a road car if you for example follow a lorry too closely and then move out into clean air it affects the balance of the car. When you're up at 200mph and there are cars all around you, sitting in a little pocket behind another car when you move out it effects the balance of the car and if you're not ready for it or the car isn't placed right it can cause the rear end to snap out on you, that doesn't mean you can't catch it. Like I said I only watch a couple per year and I try to catch Daytona and Charlotte, and I've seen it happen a few times.

Once again I've never witnessed a race that I can recall in all the 20+ years of watching the premier or lower series that this has happened, the loss of grip usually occurs in dirty air especially when the car has too much turn in.

To be honest though most of my perspective comes from racing iRacing stock cars, which gives you a far better perspective or viewpoint than you could ever get from watching a race. GT6 NASCAR is no more realistic than the Rallying or the Formula 1. GT5 NASCAR was a complete joke though.

How so, you follow the technical side of NASCAR for several years like some of us have, or study it and learn about it you'll see that iRacing though good isn't the only way to learn. Once again I'm not nor have I claimed that GT6 Nascar is realistic so I don't see why you need to bring it up in these posts.

If anything I agree with what you told the OP about him needing to tune the car and adjust driving from GT5 to GT6, the only reason I'm speaking out is due to how wrong some of you people are on what you quote from the actual sport.

 

[nicholasxuu]

my problem is that the AI in nascar are just total ass.
when I'm in the inside lane, and also in the front, turning into a corner. I should have the priority to choose my line (racing common sense).
while the AI just turn into me, crashing into my outside rear, and put my car into a spin and a massive crash.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I dont need to learn more. Nascar is not of interest to me. Dont claim things like I dont know what Im talking about and direct me to threads which is my point.

Here you go again Seth, feeling as if people are against you when they talk or disagree with you. I'm merely suggesting so don't take it the wrong way. It's a forum people are going to respond and disagree with you if you don't like that then why do you participate?

Then why respond about a topic you don't care about and obviously that lack of care shows in the knowledge I've corrected you a few times already on this topic. Sorry but not to be rude, you don't know what you're talking about and I've given you solid numbers to back check if I'm just BSing this or telling the truth.

You know 450hp is conservative for power levels. As is Audis 510hp. Their flywheel kers system makes 200hp for short bursts of 2.5-3 seconds, for something around 7 times per lap.[/quote]

They aren't pushing more than that due to the size of the restictor plate which is something LMP1 cars don't need to worry about as much

That doesn't make them able to hit mid 3:20's at LeMans. They obviously make much more than they claim. Go to mulsannescorner or dailysportscar or racecarengineering. Those are much more reliable than forums.

I've been there and have them book marked (all but dailysportscar), once again the fact still remains you don't need power to reach those times, considering the multiple factors that take place. Either way this is off topic and if you wish to talk about lmp1 we can do so in the Le Mans thread.

 

[Bigbazz]

@LMSCorvetteGT2

Back on the Kimi Raikkonen point. It wasn't that I was putting F1 on a pedestal or open wheel on a pedestal. My point is that he is a world class racing driver from a different type of racing. It's easy to think that NASCAR is easy when you have guys who have grown up driving towards this type of career. When you put a world class driver from another type of motorsport into NASCAR it highlights the difficulty and skill level needed to drive the cars.

This is to point out the fact that the average joe should not think that it should be easy, guys without the needed experience in these specific cars (like Raikkonen) find it difficult despite their world class proven record in motorsport.

It was an example to show that you need experience with these cars, and that they are harder to drive than they may look from the outside. I admit that I'm not up to scratch on the latest generation of NASCAR. But GT6 has cars from 2010, 2011 and 2013 and they race together.

I'm clearly basing my experiences from GT5 on the 2010 cars, while my experiences in GT6 were with the 2013 car. iRacing probably isn't going to be perfect but it's really quite good at oval racing. Having a first hand perspective on driving and racing the cars around others is an eye opener, it's very difficult.

 

[SavageEvil]

We have lots of these threads popping up. Why don't people get that many if not all of the racing cars the average joe will not be able to drive at high speeds let alone speed the professionals drive them at. Why are you assuming these purpose built race machines are going to be easy to drive? Even if GT6 is simulating them incorrectly, no regular driver can handle these cars going full throttle, armchair drivers should not be able to handle these cars by just jumping into them and pounding the pedals.

I mean GT Academy finalists have to go through rigorous training and have to overcome their videogame mentality. This is why these cars are driven by professionals and not by you or soccer moms. What a simulator aims to do is recreate real world experiences but building realistic cars that are bound by a physics world and cars are supposed to react in a realistic fashion. While GT6 may not be on the cutting edge of simulation, there is no mistake that many if not all of the high power cars are a handful and then some. PD still has to make the game fun for the masses which is why sometimes average joes can handle many cars with relative ease but realistically this would not be the case.

People are quick to call something broken, but I wonder just how many of those can walk onto a race track and jump into one of these powerful racing machines and drive it like a pro without any sort of time put in learning how to control the car and the dynamics of racing them solo then how they handle in a pack. I repeat the game may not be perfect in simulation but we need to stop thinking that we'd be able to drive every car in the game simply because they are cars. That is a false assumption, real simulators are tasked with being close to the real thing as possible and being unforgiving is one of them, you have to respect that this vehicle if underestimated can take your life.

I feel that GT as aseries should start adding some sort of unadulterated physics simulation on the next system that really pushes the physics to PC levels of unforgiving and realism. This should help keep hardcore happy and allow average joes to understand the difference between driving in a game for fun and simulation for understanding a car and respecting it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

@LMSCorvetteGT2

Back on the Kimi Raikkonen point. It wasn't that I was putting F1 on a pedestal or open wheel on a pedestal. My point is that he is a world class racing driver from a different type of racing. It's easy to think that NASCAR is easy when you have guys who have grown up driving towards this type of career. When you put a world class driver from another type of motorsport into NASCAR it highlights the difficulty and skill level needed to drive the cars.

Quite agreed I see what you're at now.

This is to point out the fact that the average joe should not think that it should be easy, guys without the needed experience in these specific cars (like Raikkonen) find it difficult despite their world class proven record in motorsport.

I already agreed the average Joe shouldn't be able to do well with or with out the troubles Open wheel drivers and other types have faced.

It was an example to show that you need experience with these cars, and that they are harder to drive than they may look from the outside.

Well yes that's a given once again, hence why I agree that the OP needs to adjust a few things then report back and I haven't seen the user saying anything since being corrected so...

 

[trustjab]

Here you go again Seth, feeling as if people are against you when they talk or disagree with you. I'm merely suggesting so don't take it the wrong way. It's a forum people are going to respond and disagree with you if you don't like that then why do you participate?

I am not Seth. I dont care to discuss nascar stats with you. Simple as that. You dont have any right to claim someone doesn't know what they're talking about. Which is what you were doing.

Then why respond about a topic you don't care about and obviously that lack of care shows in the knowledge I've corrected you a few times already on this topic. Sorry but not to be rude, you don't know what you're talking about and I've given you solid numbers to back check if I'm just BSing this or telling the truth.

They aren't pushing more than that due to the size of the restictor plate which is something LMP1 cars don't need to worry about as much



I've been there and have them book marked (all but dailysportscar), once again the fact still remains you don't need power to reach those times, considering the multiple factors that take place. Either way this is off topic and if you wish to talk about lmp1 we can do so in the Le Mans thread.

I replied because you said (twice now) I dont know what Im talking about. You don't know me or what I am educated in. Dont make claims like that or I will report you. And please don't call me out of name again.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I am not Seth. I dont care to discuss nascar stats with you. Simple as that. You dont have any right to claim someone doesn't know what they're talking about. Which is what you were doing.

Yes I actually do when you start trying to pass something off as fact, and not back it up, which is against AUP. I've made claims to and given actual concrete numbers and ideas that can be searched and found.

I replied because you said (twice now) I dont know what Im talking about. You don't know me or what I am educated in. Dont make claims like that or I will report you. And please don't call me out of name again.

I don't have to know you, those things your using called words and the syntax you put them in to convey thought and ideas tells me enough. You place yourself in a position when you start typing away, once again report me, but you are the one making claims about a topic and passing them off as facts which is against the AUP, I'd welcome any mod to read what has transpired. You acted if I was being rude to you due to our past history on this forum and the simple fact is if anyone says something that isn't true then I will obviously disagree with them as should anyone who has studied or involved themselves with knowledge of a certain area.

 

[Bhowe83]

I wouldn't use an open wheel driver like Raikkonen who even had trouble early on with rally racing as the artifact example of why NASCAR is difficult. If he had the up bringing for the skill set they need he probably would have done well, the down force and aero grip in NASCAR is far different than F1 obviously, actually NASCAR relies on a lot of mechanical grip. When they pull out of the draft they don't spin, I've yet to see a driver spin out in a real race due to leaving the draft.

You can see the affect Stenhouse's car moving out had on Dillon's

With the way these Gen-6 cars are, they are moved around by any movement in the draft, especially with the SS package.

Also, before you say he touched him, you can see in the onboards of Stenhouse and Dillon that no contact was made, simply air

 

[Jahgee]

PD can fix NASCAR in a patch, for starters they need to change the specs of the Gen 6 cars, the minimum weight of a NASCAR Sprint Cup car has gone down from 3,400 to 3,300 pounds

 

[Rdp616]

It's all about the Differential folks. It has much more effect now in GT6 than GT5. OP, Turn down your diff and put some more wing on the rear, and soften the springs. Bump up the damper extension also. Your spinning issues will be solved.

The only problem i have is the sounds for the new Nascars. They're terrible.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You can see the affect Stenhouse's car moving out had on Dillon's

With the way these Gen-6 cars are, they are moved around by any movement in the draft, especially with the SS package.

Also, before you say he touched him, you can see in the onboards of Stenhouse and Dillon that no contact was made, simply air

I watched the race and from the display and when I saw it the first time it's obvious that air was taken off the back of Dillon's car causing him to lose rear grip and spin out. It had nothing to do with him pulling out of the draft, and that technique has long been used especially at mile and a half tracks and short tracks to take away aero grip to open up a space for passing.

In this moment it looked like Stenhouse was going to pass and took to much. Also it's been noted for that past few years now that you can't push a car on the right side going into corners because it will loose grip as well on super speedways.

 

[iRevelationz]

When they pull out of the draft they don't spin, I've yet to see a driver spin out in a real race due to leaving the draft.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

PD can fix NASCAR in a patch, for starters they need to change the specs of the Gen 6 cars, the minimum weight of a NASCAR Sprint Cup car has gone down from 3,400 to 3,300 pounds

This ^ the weight dropped 100-150 pounds, NASCAR.com claims the cars in previous gen actually weighed 3450

 

[trustjab]

Yes I actually do when you start trying to pass something off as fact, and not back it up, which is against AUP. I've made claims to and given actual concrete numbers and ideas that can be searched and found.

I gave you the sources, you even acknowledged you read those sites. How is that not evidence? You said to read the Nascar thread and you go by what a friend told you among other things. Even the Nascar website gives out some generic number that is not accurate.

I don't have to know you, those things your using called words and the syntax you put them in to convey thought and ideas tells me enough. You place yourself in a position when you start typing away, once again report me, but you are the one making claims about a topic and passing them off as facts which is against the AUP, I'd welcome any mod to read what has transpired. You acted if I was being rude to you due to our past history on this forum and the simple fact is if anyone says something that isn't true then I will obviously disagree with them as should anyone who has studied or involved themselves with knowledge of a certain area.

Blah blah, save your time. You claimed something which was an assumption. You dont know my background or my studies ot my knowledge. I gave you websites which have talked about restrictors and the effects and the power levels. Its a big internet, youre just one guy. I think Ill go with the facts I have picked up elsewhere. Good day to you.

 

[Bhowe83]

I watched the race and from the display and when I saw it the first time it's obvious that air was taken off the back of Dillon's car causing him to lose rear grip and spin out. It had nothing to do with him pulling out of the draft, and that technique has long been used especially at mile and a half tracks and short tracks to take away aero grip to open up a space for passing.

In this moment it looked like Stenhouse was going to pass and took to much. Also it's been noted for that past few years now that you can't push a car on the right side going into corners because it will loose grip as well on super speedways.

Yes, I was just pointing out that the effect of air on these cars is pretty extreme. Also, with the fact that these cars in GT6 are running unrestricted at Daytona, I'm sure they're hitting the speeds we saw in GT5 [220-240]. That is sure to be a scary thing to drive in a pack.

If anything I think PD is right in making these cars hard to drive at these speeds. I don't think we can criticize the aero/driving model until we race them with reasonable HP. I'm just speculating as of now because I'm yet to play GT6.

As much as I'd like to agree with you, this isn't a good example since Denny had a decent amount of damage from a previous wreck, and this thing was just a wreck waiting to happen.

Also, question for OP.

What are you using? Wheel, DS3?

Also, is your rear spoiler at the max angle? NASCAR has had a rule in place for a while that states spoilers must be set to 70 degrees. If you run anything less, especially at a high speed track, good luck buddy.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That one will do then, it might help to get the interview to get his perspective. And he did have damage if I recall from the JPM collision

 

[iRevelationz]

That one will do then, it might help to get the interview to get his perspective. And he did have damage if I recall from the JPM collision

Fair enough, I can let that one pass. How about this one?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I gave you the sources, you even acknowledged you read those sites. How is that not evidence? You said to read the Nascar thread and you go by what a friend told you among other things. Even the Nascar website gives out some generic number that is not accurate.

Those weren't sources in regards to NASCAR, I told you if you want to discuss the topic of LMP there is a proper area to do so already. And I'll gladly talk about it. Actually I said I go by many things, actually studying the series, following it for as many years I have, and being an Aero student that majors in the workings of such (if you'd like I can show you my transcript), my friend once again is a Mech. Engineer that I went to school with. Also how do you know NASCAR's website isn't right?

Blah blah, save your time. You claimed something which was an assumption. You dont know my background or my studies ot my knowledge. I gave you websites which have talked about restrictors and the effects and the power levels. Its a big internet, youre just one guy. I think Ill go with the facts I have picked up elsewhere. Good day to you.

Yeah one guy that seems that have knowledged himself in this area over years compared to what seems like a quick Google search on your part. You gave no websites that talk about NASCAR restrictions or where you've based this info that 450 is a fictitious number even if it is regulated by NASCAR.

Yes, I was just pointing out that the effect of air on these cars is pretty extreme. Also, with the fact that these cars in GT6 are running unrestricted at Daytona, I'm sure they're hitting the speeds we saw in GT5 [220-240]. That is sure to be a scary thing to drive in a pack.

Agreed, my only issue with what you and rev are trying to prove to me is that what the OP seemed to be claiming is that when he went to pass out of the draft he spun out. That makes no sense since the tow is producing grip when you go to pass like a slingshot.

If anything I think PD is right in making these cars hard to drive at these speeds. I don't think we can criticize the aero/driving model until we race them with reasonable HP. I'm just speculating as of now because I'm yet to play GT6.

Agree with this too, the Aero model and even mechanical grip model is what I question all around with GT6 and prior games. Well hopefully you'll get to play the game soon.

Also, is your rear spoiler at the max angle? NASCAR has had a rule in place for a while that states spoilers must be set to 70 degrees. If you run anything less, especially at a high speed track, good luck buddy.

This as well, and I don't think you can replicate aero package changes at all in GT5 or GT6, at least I couldn't when I tried but someone else might have had better luck.

 

[trustjab]

I said good day to you. Racecarengineering dailysportscar sportscar365 speedtv foxsports autosport motorsport are just a few examples of sites that talk about it. You are not a trusted source and neither am I, those are.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I said good day to you. Racecarengineering dailysportscar sportscar365 speedtv foxsports autosport motorsport are just a few examples of sites that talk about it. You are not a trusted source and neither am I, those are.

Yes and I used trusted sources and I told you I can show them to you if you'd like, I also said I could show you my credentials if you'd like, but I never relied on my knowledge alone and you making it out as such is a misrepresentation and also again AUP.

Fair enough, I can let that one pass. How about this one?

He went in and out of and then back in to the turbulence and lost grip, due to such a quick change that he wasn't prepared for. I'm saying I've never seen a driver just pull out of the Aero into clean air to make a pass, only to lose the car from under.

I think your last video was the best at what I was getting at hence why I said "that will do it", cause you proved me wrong even if Denny had Aero damage from a prior wreck it still shows me to a degree that the cars theoretically can lose it even under perfect conditions.

 

[trustjab]

I said "among other things" bro. welcome to the ignore list

 

[Bhowe83]

Yeah one guy that seems that have knowledged himself in this area over years compared to what seems like a quick Google search on your part. You gave no websites that talk about NASCAR restrictions or where you've based this info that 450 is a fictitious number even if it is regulated by NASCAR.[/qoute]
Well to play devil's advocate, that 450 number as far as HP goes has fluctuated quite a bit since the restrictor plate has been in effect, whether it be through NASCAR adjusting plates or just the advancements made in engine building. But yes, NASCAR engines running with a restrictor plate have always been around the 450 hp range. So give or take +/- 25HP over the years, thats still about 300 less HP than the non-restricted engines which makes a massive difference.
[qoute]This as well, and I don't think you can replicate aero package changes at all in GT5 or GT6, at least I couldn't when I tried but someone else might have had better luck.

Yeah, it was hard in GT5 to do very much, considering you couldn't force setups for the rooms and when I created rooms with realistic restrictions, I'd get 2 or 3 guys join.

But I do have experience with trying to replicate aero packages in NR2003 [iRacing's predecessor] using various track and setup methods, some of which are just downright insane, but still work.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I said "among other things" bro. welcome to the ignore list

Glad to be there, it's been long awaited from someone as ignorant and constantly need of correcting on all motorsport forums.

Anyways in regards to NASCARs running 228-230 unrestricted is very realistic. I remember hearing back in the mid 2000s that Rusty Wallace ran a test without a plate around Dega, and ran those speeds. @Bhowe83 and yeah people don't like to do realistic things, but I'd join a restrictor room if I could ever find one among the dirty NASCAR.

 

[Bhowe83]

Glad to be there, it's been long awaited from someone as ignorant and constantly need of correcting on all motorsport forums.

Anyways in regards to NASCARs running 228-230 unrestricted is very realistic. I remember hearing back in the mid 2000s that Rusty Wallace ran a test without a plate around Dega, and ran those speeds. @Bhowe83 and yeah people don't like to do realistic things, but I'd join a restrictor room if I could ever find one among the dirty NASCAR.

I believe that was in 2004 for some sort of sponsor shoot. And that 230 mph figure was his average speed for the lap, he said that he hit ~235 entering 3.

Edit; found story link, fixed number: http://www.caranddriver.com/news/rusty-runs-unrestricted-car-news