sorry Exorcet.Why you decided to throw that in there confuses me. So no racing game is a simulator?
I know that you iRacing fans are quite hardcore and devout about your game, but there are a few problems with it.
The cost of entry is exceptionally high, and buy everything in it with real money, and then you have to pay rent. Quite a bit of money, and frankly for those of us with lives and bills, that's just a bit too steep for what little you get.
The whole point of iRacing is to pretend to be a pro racecar driver in some sort of fantasy league, in which you work - and pay - your butt off in order to see your position move up a spot in a points board every race or so. Hopefully.
And while I would very much like to see more simulation in Gran Turismo - heck, in GT6 I'd love to see an entire sim racing Mode with gobs of leagues to race in for seasons, I think you're wrong in slamming GT5 blanketly. Collisions do indeed have consequences. Not mechanical damage, yet, but when I wreck, I lose position and time like crazy. So I spend quite a bit of attention to my racing line and my competitors so I don't wreck. And having spent a stint in the GTRs, I never really enjoyed pitting. It was an annoying interruption and a hassle to pit properly, and I'm quite content to hand off to GT5 for that.
But to say that there are no good races to be found in GT5, you've completely ignored an entire section to this site devoted to setting up races. Yes, they have to be scheduled, and yes, often you need to be on a friend's list. But how is that any different from any other game? I had quite a blast last saturday in a 30 lap tear around Spa with six other people here hosted by dhandes. It was clean, competitive, gentlemanly... and dominated by a mod with a BMW race car.But honestly, I didn't care that I ended up in the middle of the winner's list. The racing was a delight, a back pain aside.
Sure, as a sim goes, you can point out a lot of things GT5 leaves off. I'm going to hopefully have some voting points available at some time to chase down some of those simmy posts in the Feedback Board. Why don't you do that too, and make your wishes known, as it seems that PD is keeping close tabs on Jordan's feedback system.
I actually like your comments because they are somewhat intelligent ... a good post deserves a response ...
SIMULATION.... No racing game is a simulator? ....
I think iRacing, NetKar Pro and even Richard Burns Rally are simulation.... I've only been into sim-racing for a few years..but most of the other games I've tried ... some 30+ racing titles games I've played I would say NO they're not... maybe I missed a few GTR titles, R-Factor and Live For Speed I don't have much playtime with ... so I dont know.
you asked about 'throwing that in there' but I think your missing my point - no a simulation by the traditional sense isn't a game or meant to be a game. .... That's what I meant and it had nothing to do with driving vs flying a plane - .... A simulation has to resemble the real world in regards to consequences ... like how a rally car can go off a cliff in Richard Burns Rally or How you can easily break your transmission in iRacing with sloppy footwork.....and the question we're asking here is whether GT5 is a simulation... by my definition its not because there are just way too many things that protect the player from himself. Examples would be lack of damage, almost impossible to destroy your car, invisible walls, auto-drive in and out of pits, cars don't realistically affect each-other when making contact,... And the things that protect other players from you, like no player rank demerits for being a jerk etc. etc.
EXITING OUT OF THE PITS
the question isn't whether you personally enjoy exiting out of the pits..the question is whether this kind of hand holding makes the game more or less of a realistic simulation - my argument is that its no benefit to GT5 as a simulation because it doesn't' do anything to prepare a person for a real track day where track etiquette like good manners, speed limits and track awareness are important ...like when you merge onto a race track where people are already going fast and you are not. This is an issue all the time with beginners in iRacing because they don't check the relative times or even their mirrors to see who's coming round the corner when they are leaving the pits... so they just blindly run out on the track like they own it and SMACK!.... but iRacing (in my humble opinion) does cultivate good driving habits and awareness because the cost of stupidity is pretty high...Especially during actual races where not only do you miss the opportunity to finish the race but also the shame of ruining it for others.... plus being unpopular with the other drivers.
THE COST OF IRACING?
No your not paying rent...and when the racing in GT5 gets this good, and it very well might some day I'll deff stop paying for the iRacing service..... lol but I have a life and bills too bro, and I'm not one of the people will triple monitors and hoping one day to get a motion cockpit, lol .... money's tight on my end too but read on.....
Yes you are correct iRacing is expensive, I know this because in the last ten months its been like my very own crack addiction and I've bought everything in the game I wanted to play up till now so about 65 percent of all of the content in the game and its probably a few hundred dollars I've spent and I'm 99 percent satisfied except for maybe a car or two I don't enjoy as much as the others. But I mean how much did your ps3 cost?.. probly about the same.... and yes I guess PC is more expensive platform but mine is already 2 years old and I never originally bought it to even play racing games
... I won't defend iRacing's pricing on cars because I don't agree with it myself.... and If I could go back and know which cars I would like the most I'd have only bought those.... but I was just too curious to try as much in the thing as I could because of the quality of it all.........its not about how many cars you buy its about which ones you want to compete with on a regular basis ... if I stuck to the basic membership I would have only spent the 10 bucks a month.....
Now from your perspective its too expensive for what you get?.... that's fine and fair.... but for whatever its cost so far I've been able to race competitively every day I've had time to do so all year. And by competitively I mean bumper to bumper day in and day out with other like minded drivers who only want to race. What iRacing does that (nothing else I know of does) is recreate real-world racing in an online environment and I don't know if any other game/simulation/or whatever even comes close to doing that....... its able to do that not only because of the physics model (which is also pretty good in GT5) but because its almost lag-free.... so its a combination of the network servers, the physics and the consequences of contact with other cars.
but what could I have done with that money and my new found passion for race cars instead of race all year on my pc? ....I could have run about 15 laps in a stock car on a weekend at my local oval for $149 bucks
I could have Done a half hour Kart lesson for $150 bucks at a local outdoor karting/motor bike track .... and maybe $2000 for a 2-day weekend thing... or bought my very own Kart for 2 or 3 grand...I could have even did a Formula 2000 weekend trip for close to $3500 .... and yea sure I guess I could go hit up some low powered fun-Karts for 35 bucks or something with friends but that's hardly going to lead to anything competitive. What I really want to do is winter Ice-Racing because its run locally ...but roll cages aren't cheap.
so you say the cost of iRacing is expensive but....compared to even the cheapest form of real-world racing its a joke.... This is for people who would probably do some kind of real world racing if it was less expensive...or for those who already do it as their job or hobby and want to get better.....and all in all iRacing at least more than anything else provides the next best thing. this is for people who actually want to race other people in a fair environment... nothing else
... I like that you said fantasy league that's in a way the idea I guess...but what what are you really paying for? ...if you are already a race car driver you are paying for the best possible simulation that helps you work on different tracks ... if you are someone like me? Well it sure isn't about how many cars you have collected in your garage..... what I'm paying for is a hobby onto itself... I could even call it a sport but it would be misinterpreted.... if there is such a thing as a non-athletic sport this would be it ... i can get all the highs and lows that I would out of a real sport at least in terms of enjoyment except the benefits of exercise, LOL ....and without leaving my house to go to a nightly adult sports club of some kind. If I think of iRacing as my main hobby and compare it too any sport or martial arts club I used to be in regularly by comparison (sports equipment, club dues or drop-in fees, clothing, gas money) to the $75 a year iRacing is pretty substantial.... playing racket sports for instance was running me $2400 a year, that was a long time ago and I was probly living off minimum wage back then....
HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER GAME?
well I don't need to be on a friends list to race people in iRacing that's part of it ......but I'm not saying THERE IS NEVER any good racing in GT5, but what one person considers 'Good Racing' might not be the same for everyone.. for instance I have friends who played GT5 all year with duel shock controllers and they consider it 'Good Racing', where I don't because I use a wheel...... for me personally I haven't yet found the racing to be anywhere near the same quality as iRacing even when it was more or less organized racing.... and again I believe this to be the combination of the network code, the collisions and the physics... all of those things... not just one in particular........ but Hey, that's just me and maybe I'm a horrible person for it
...Yes I know there is organized racing and I've gone that route and decided it wasn't worth it for me ...... besides iRacing does all the work of finding people to race for me and it does it every hour on the hour and I just click a button and magically *I'm racing people and it's keeping score* even better than that is that its NOT matchmaking ... its scheduled racing... no homework or research or e-mails or social networking involved.
I'm also not saying iRacing is a better game than GT5.... I'm only saying that iRacing is a simulation and GT5 is not and using it as an example to answer the question that this thread is asking... I wouldn't be here if I didn't like GT5 ... my motivation to say this stuff is because what I get in iRacing I personally find to be lacking in GT5 and I wish it wasn't ..... and this thread isn't in anyway meant to be an insult to the GT5 community .... but hey, if you ask me as an iRacing player I'm sure as hell going to tell you what I think, even though GT5 is the only console racing game I actually still play ... and Yes PD IS doing an amazing job with updates I agree... I'll check that out.
Yes, thanks for clearing that up.
yeah, good point. Got a bit irritable and wasn't thinking properly
For the difference between 20 and 1000 cars i'm thinking that with a smaller number of cars that they can be more specific or at least adjust for those better. I have read about some people complaining about some cars being worse after an update where others are saying some have improved after the same update.
Consider the physics engine a coin sorter, and the cars in the game have their own parameters, which we'll call coins. When you go on a track, the game throws each cars coins into the bin, and you get - driving. (sorted coins)yeah, good point. Got a bit irritable and wasn't thinking properly
For the difference between 20 and 1000 cars i'm thinking that with a smaller number of cars that they can be more specific or at least adjust for those better. I have read about some people complaining about some cars being worse after an update where others are saying some have improved after the same update.
This is not the same for ABS 1 It feels like something is still helping you. Just my opinion. 👍
anastasi. George from katerini here..!
Quick OT here, if you'll pardon.
- which only has 200 hp. I know a lot of people loves their supercars, but some of us love cars that are super in their own way.
Of course, people scream for realism in most types of games, but then when cars come up, it's to hard, so then of course, "realistic racing sucks" in their mind, because they're no good at it, and can't be bothered to learn.
I definitely intend to.Quick OT here, if you'll pardon.
I have a feeling you'll love it. It's different in ways that are sublime, but in others hard to describe. The cars are livelier on their suspensions. When the tires roar, it sounds like you're abusing a set of four tires. Like I said, it caused me to smell burned rubber! The graphics are terrific, if a bit CG in different ways from GT5, so Photo Mode should be a hoot. And that modification system and Livery Editor are just too hip for words. But the feel is different, T10 is doing something unorthodox. Some can connect with it well, some like me struggle, and some hate the physics completely. You really have to try it.
The problems with GT5's tuning/upgrading don't just come in the form of turbo/superchargers though.As for GT5's mods, yeah, they're a mixed bag, kind of arbitrary. A few cars which should accept a turbo or supercharger can't. Some which shouldn't without modifying, can. And Kaz decides how far up the performance ladder every car can go, which is a source of irritation for some people. I don't mind because my "sweet band" is in the range of 300-400hp for the most part. You have grunt but aren't flying around the track at crazy speeds. Less power means closer, more competitive races, and a less spread out field, great for Photo Mode, which I may finally get to play with! I still have my monsters, like a Ford GT at 700 plus, but I really prefer less power. One of my faves is the CR-Z TC in the new DLC - lot of rhyming initials there
As for turning off ABS, it's because even at 1, all the other aids seem to be turned on one to three clicks, and you can't disable them. It gives you a car that you still have to drive properly, it's not arcade or anything, but the cars are still too poised, polite and safe to me. After turning off ABS and giving the cars a go, they feel much more alive. Not quite as vivid as the cars in Forza 4, but close enough, and I can still drive aggressively. And in racing, you can tune a car however you want, within regs. And in GT5, there aren't any that I don't make up.
Highly unlikely, if you know anything about SRF and how it works.
Name the car without space for a turbo or supercharger added, please. I'm sure there's at least one or two in GT5.- But even if there's 10, surely we won't let that detract from the fact that most every car can have one added, right?
You should understand, just because you drive with ABS on, does not mean the ABS has to engage.
I try to avoid engaging my ABS, because it slows you down a bit in GT5, and is harder on tires.
This is the assumption I'm talking about.
It was kind of fun, though that level of poverty just can't last for much longer.
Actually, online racing is the only thing keeping me playing GT5 atm.CSLACR, I'm with you, mostly. The stage levels are pretty much whatever Kaz says. The costs are crazy expensive, right out of GT4 which has a much easier economy. But we don't have much choice. Just sunday, I spent myself from over 16 million Cr down to 61, buying and "race modding" a few cars!
Strictly on the subject of simulation, this kind of thing is laughable. Of course, most of us aren't laughing or mocking, we're smiling with every lap of a car we've fixed up and painted. Sure, it's nowhere near what Forza offers, and the simulation stuff really needs to get patched in - or maybe refined for GT6, but for now, the racing in GT5 is pure chewing satisfaction for us. So we keep racing, smiling, and putting up with it.
As I say though, this is one area I have no problem with people complaining and begging for improvement, so have at it.
Oh, and I'm obviously with JDMKING on the ABS matter.
Implementation.
Actually, online racing is the only thing keeping me playing GT5 atm.
I don't modify cars unless I need to, which is rare. I don't like driving modified cars in GT5, nor did I like it in GT4.
Once you modify cars in GT5, online racing turns into "who can find the fastest car at this PP level" instead of drivers racing in fairly equal cars.
