Chevrolet Volt/Cadillac ELR Thread: 2016 EPA Ratings

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orimarc
230...MPG? At what speed? Does that count stopping at traffic lights?
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I would imagine when you stop at a traffic light all you are running is whatever you have on at the time (radio, mobile phone charger, etc.) so it's only depleating a small amount of electricity. Also I doubt the engine would even be running.
 
STill, this is a suspiciously ludicrous claim that seems to have apparently been invented so that the Government investment in GM doesn't look so stupid....
 
That rating can't be right, Obama says Detroit can't build fuel efficient cars. :rolleyes: :p

Seriously though, sounds about right. Depending on price and dealer markups and such, I'd rock one as a daily driver.
 
Maybe it's a typo, perhaps it has range of 230 miles. That would actually sound reasonable..
 
Leonidae
Maybe it's a typo, perhaps it has range of 230 miles. That would actually sound reasonable..
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Not for a car like the Volt. Even I can hit that in the TL. :odd:
 
Why would you trust the EPA to rate a government-funded vehicle?
 
I think this is the key
According to Frank Weber, vehicle chief engineer for the Volt, the number is based on combined electric only driving and charge sustaining mode with the engine running.
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I'm guessing the engine was just charging the battery and not actually being used to transfer power to the wheels?
 
It's a crock.

When they say it'll get 230 mpg on the EPA urban cycle, they mean it'll get 230 mpg because in the new testing scheme, trips are too short to drain the battery.

They're not actually counting the electrical usage required to top off the batteries, and the EPA still hasn't settled on an equivalent rating for electricity. Such a system would favor the Volt over the Prius.

What's funny is... for a pure electric car, like the Nissan LEAF, such a rating system would give you infinity mpg... something I can see Nissan putting in an ad in the near future... :dopey:

Go imports! :lol:
 
Well, it depends on who you're talking to for what the actual figure is...

EPA Backs Away From Volt's 230 MPG Rating

Autoblog
Apparently, we're not the only ones trying to figure out the exact methodology that was used to determine the supposed 230 mile per gallon city rating claimed by General Motors for the upcoming Chevy Volt. In response to a query from the boys at Green Car Advisor, the EPA issued the following statement:

EPA has not tested a Chevy Volt and therefore cannot confirm the fuel economy values claimed by GM. EPA does applaud GM's commitment to designing and building the car of the future - an American-made car that will save families money, significantly reduce our dependence on foreign oil and create good-paying American jobs. We're proud to see American companies and American workers leading the world in the clean energy innovations that will shape the 21st century economy.

Although it deserves noting that GM CEO Fritz Henderson didn't exactly say the 230 mpg rating was an official figure from the EPA, it sure is being bandied about as if it were gospel in the huge marketing campaign launched ahead of today's announcement.

When contacted for comment, GM told AutoblogGreen that the EPA is not backing away from the 230 numbers and that it's unlikely that the EPA will come out with a much lower number when they actually get to run a Volt through the official cycle. Further, GM believes that coming out with the 230 rating at this point in time is one way to change people's perception of what kind of car the Volt is.
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Really, I'm not sure how they get the figure at all. I was reading somewhere today that they were partially basing this on the rating of 25kwh/100 miles. How that translates exactly, I do not know. But, apparently they ran some numbers, and figured out the car was pretty cheap to run.



Also... For the nerds...

Wanna Know How You Plug-In the Volt?

504x_Chevy_Volt_Recharge.jpg


Jalopnik
The volt will come standard with a portable 120-volt charger that'll work with standard home outlets. Just plug it into the wall, connect it to the car and come back six to eight hours later for a complete charge.

For impatient owners, GM is also talking about offering an optional 240-volt home charge unit that'll need to be hardwired into your garage, car port or whatever you high falutin suburbanites keep your cars in these days. Expect the price of the unit and the installation to be wrapped into one bundle that'll be appealing priced and available straight from dealers. A coil cord will extend from that wall unit to the car and can complete a full charge in just three to four hours. It's expected that the vast majority of owners will use this setup and carry their 120-volt portable chargers for on-the-go or emergency recharges.

The reason the 240-volt charger isn't portable is due to national electric codes which require the device to be hard wired and the nature of the 240-volt plug (think of the big three pronger that hooks your dryer up to the wall), which isn't designed to withstand repeated plug-ins/unplugs. Speaking as someone who has electrocuted himself with 240-volt electricity several times, hardwiring is probably for the best.

Both types of charger will connect to the car with a universal J1772 plug that's capable of withstanding the full weight of the car should your wife run it over, can shut the car off if she tries to drive away with it plugged in and "talks" to the batteries to regulate the flow of juice should the level of amperage being drawn threaten to trip circuit breakers or similar.

GM hopes to offer hardwired 240-volt quick chargers in the parking garages of major companies and retails outlets and at other popular commuting destinations at some unspecified date in the future.

GM has gone so far as to consider and then rule out the use of automatic plug winders, finding that they're prone to breakage and the tightly wound extension cords can generate dangerous levels of heat. Instead, a variety of cord lengths will likely be offered to suit individual needs.

How safe is all this? According to Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz the recharging system is idiot proof. He even went so far as to say, "You could dunk this in a bucket of water and you'd be ok.
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Cool-ish. I could see the 240-volt plug driving a lot of business for electricians in the near-future.
 
Ah, Trickle-chargers...

Now, I wonder that if you have one of these parked in your driveway, your utility quietly raises your electric rate fourfold....

Also, if these are gonna be charging at night, thus putting more strain on the grid at that time, does that mean industries like smelters and others that use a whole lot of electricity at off-peak hours will see a rate hike, too?
 
I'm sure there's some kind of formula figuring out how far the average american drives per day and then calculating the mileage driven after the battery is depleted and a separate mpg figure for when the gas motor is running. I'm guessing that a lot of people keep their daily driving around 40 miles, so it is a realistic figure for average drivers.

And when you consider that you've gone probably 90-100 miles before a gallon of gas is gone, it does seem realistic. Because very few people drive that car. I'd bet the 230 figure arrives somewhere around 50-60 miles, still a ways to go every day.

Jim Prower
Also, if these are gonna be charging at night, thus putting more strain on the grid at that time, does that mean industries like smelters and others that use a whole lot of electricity at off-peak hours will see a rate hike, too?
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I guess it depends. If the grid is already running pretty well below capacity, I would imagine that that wouldn't become a problem until everybody is charging their car at night. If not, then something probably will happen.
 
Of course, all this is assuming people will actually buy the things when they go on sale.
 
Somewhat off topic, but...

niky
What's funny is... for a pure electric car, like the Nissan LEAF, such a rating system would give you infinity mpg... something I can see Nissan putting in an ad in the near future... :dopey:
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Wrong. The LEAF manages "only" 367 mpg. I think this casts some doubt over the fuel efficiency rating system if a car that doesn't burn any fuel has a measurable fuel usage...
 
Philly
Wrong. The LEAF manages "only" 367 mpg. I think this casts some doubt over the fuel efficiency rating system if a car that doesn't burn any fuel has a measurable fuel usage...
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I saw that. That was quick! :lol:

It has to do with the EPA's equivalency rating for electricity... which, obviously, needs some fine tuning.

Another problem is... the "fuel economy" equivalency will obviously change whether you're trickle-charging or fast charging... not just what time of day you're charging at...
 
Well, honest question - Is there really a legitimate way to measure any kind of mileage for an electric vehicle?
 
Measure 'mileage' of electricity vehicles? why?

I would just use $/mile as the running costs.
Compare that with $/mile costs of conventional vehicles and you've got a comparison!!

In the end of the day, doesn't it all boil down to the cold hard cash you can save?
 
YSSMAN
Well, honest question - Is there really a legitimate way to measure any kind of mileage for an electric vehicle?
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Probably in kW/hr or something other similar measurement. Although I don't think having an accurate measurement of something like that is really necessary because they will be quite inexpensive to run.

Maybe there could be a scale from like 1 to 10 indicating the amount of energy that any particular car requires to operate. But I think that the big deal will be what it takes to charge the car every night, not a consumption/mile rating like we have for petrol cars.
 
Philly
Probably in kW/hr or something other similar measurement.
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That would be the one. Money wouldn't be good since the cost changes and prices differ in different states/cities/towns.

I think it would be important to measure it like that, because if we're going for efficiency why not make sure we're not making electricity hogs. The government will be all over it either way.
 
I guess for a PHV, it would make sense to figure out some way to gauge the amount of fuel used by the engine in charge-sustain mode first. As for the electric engine, I have no idea how to quantify it easily. I dunno. Are they doing the same for other electric vehicles like the Tesla Model S and such?
 
I guess that should be kW/hour.

edit: crap, meant kW/mile
 
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I think it actually may make sense to measure the efficiency of the Volt purely in terms of electrical resources used. For marketing, it might kill the vehicle's chances of selling, but I think it would be important to get the public better acquainted with the electric vehicle.

And it might be a better way to measure the mileage of the Volt because it always runs on battery power so you don't have to worry about the 40 miles you can drive before the gas motor kicks in and how to factor that in. It may still be useful to measure the MPG of the car in charging mode, and at least mention it in advertising, but I don't think it's really necessary. Because the sooner we start informing people about what kind of mile/kW their car gets, the sooner everybody will have a good idea of what an "efficient" car is.
 
EDIT: Weird the forum posted that twice...
 
6 hours of charging off the mains is going to use up a LOT of electricity. This is all just a complete load of toss from Chevrolet to make people think they're kind and friendly to the environment. Just buy a smaller diesel car for commuting. It'll be easier to park and easier to drive in built up areas, while still getting a very good MPG figure.

Has anyone figured out the amount of fuel needed to charge it every 60 miles yet? I'm guessing it'll be much more than driving a small diesel carefully. That'll be bad for both your costs and the environment.
 
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Should be in miles per pound of coal. Then compare that to a Steam locomotive. :3
 
Jim Prower
Should be in miles per pound of coal. Then compare that to a Steam locomotive. :3
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:lol: But what about any power generated by water or the sun? Their brochures are going to have to be huge! ;)
 
I actually don't think the impact would be that huge. At least for the imports, by far their biggest market is going to be the West Coast (followed by the North East) and I know that we get a huge majority of our electricity from renewable sources. So if anything the grid will just be a little more strained in the later months of summer when the snow pack is starting to get a little low.

But for the Midwest, coal is the big source of electricity. And it just goes to show that the biggest impact we can have on the environment is to overhaul our power grid. But that would cost money.
 
The Volt is being reported to start at $32,000, after a $7,500 government tax credit.

Autoblog
REPORT: Chevy Volt will start at $32,000 after tax credit?

While we know a good bit of information about GM's upcoming range-extended electric automobile, one major question lurks high above the rest: how much with the Chevy Volt cost? Well, that's a tough nut to crack. There will be a sticker price plastered on the car's window when it finally goes on sale in November of 2010 that may very well be at or near the $40,000 mark – pretty pricey for a car wearing the golden Bowtie – but that's not the end of the story. In a bit to sweeten the pot a bit, the U.S. government has promised to offer a $7,500 rebate in the form of a federal tax credit.

Though there's been no official price point announced by The General for its upcoming electric as of yet, there are clues. For instance, what appears to be a GM-approved survey recently sent out by a company called Gongos suggests that the Volt "will effectively cost between $32,000 and $38,000" after the tax rebate. It's not an official pricing acknowledgement or anything like that, but it's an interesting tidbit nonetheless, and we think it's a reasonable asking price – especially after the expected runnings costs of about 2 cents per mile are factored in. What say you?
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So assuming that is the price will people buy it? I don't think GM is going to convince anyone to spend that kind of money on a car. Plus you are still going to have to pay $40,000+ up front assuming dealers don't put a premium on them.
 
Failure on wheels.
 
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the $7500 tax credit drove more people away from the car.
 
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