Chevrolet Volt/Cadillac ELR Thread: 2016 EPA Ratings

[Joey D]

If it's a city car, how & where are you supposed to plug it in? Last time I checked, most people in cities live in apartments or condos and have to park in lots or on a street. Can't have extension cords hanging 20 stories down and 4 blocks away now can you?

My place of work has a parking structure from the 1980's and there are outlets throughout the garage. I don't think finding a plug would be that hard. But what would it matter. Most people don't commute more then 40 miles round trip anyway in America. My commute is like 35 miles tops.

People in the suburbs also take trains into cities as the commute is very long, irritating, and parking in cities can be very expensive.

I live in the suburbs and work in the city, I have never used a train to make my commute...mainly because one isn't offered. There are quite a few cities like this.

And no, I'm not going to lay off the Daewoo thing. This needs to be screamed from the mountain tops b/c it's a disgrace and reeks of old bankrupt GM. This badge engineering and calling a Korean car an American car needs to stop.

You really should lay off of it because there is nothing even remotely truthful about that statement. The design, as in the exterior of the Cruze/Lacetti Premiere was mostly done by Daewoo, but all of the engineering was done by Opel. So really it's a German wearing a Korean outfit with a Bowtie tied around it.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

For the love of God, it's not a freakin' Daewoo. It's on the Delta II platform which was developed by Opel.

So is it an Opel? No, of course not.

I've already posted & linked to articles explaining why the Cruze/Volt is a Daewoo and not a Chevy or Opel.

What you're typing is GM's marketing spin. It's a Daewoo.

 

[Joey D]

So is it an Opel? No, of course not.

I've already posted & linked to articles explaining why the Cruze/Volt is a Daewoo and not a Chevy or Opel.

What you're typing is GM's marketing spin. It's a Daewoo.

Prove to me that the Chevy Volt is a rebadged Daewoo. And don't even try that Lacetti Premiere crap because I've just shown you that's wrong.

And trust me I hate GM with a passion so I'm not some rampant GM fanboy.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

. But what would it matter. Most people don't commute more then 40 miles round trip anyway in America. My commute is like 35 miles tops.

I live in the suburbs and work in the city, I have never used a train to make my commute...mainly because one isn't offered. There are quite a few cities like this.

Ever work/live in SoCal or the Bay? How about Chicago? Live outside the district (Washington DC) in Fairfax or Arlington? New York?

In those areas; a 20 mile commute can be a 2hr affair of stop-n-go road rage. It sucks. While I never used public transport when I lived in SD, Chicago (the 'el') & DC (metro) were used daily. Traffic in those places were hell.

The California problem will be the hills and the mountains. I was a passenger in a 4cyl Korean car that didn't weigh nearly 4,000lbs - and that little thing struggled. Lots of foot-to-the-floor without actually accelerating up the hill.

And here's a link/quote about the Daewoo-ness of GM's Cruze;

During the PR event in dreary Washington, DC, home of General Motors’ corrupt government owners and the mendacious lobbyists who pull their strings, we were continually reminded that the Cruze has been successfully sold in “sixty countries” so far. This is correct, and it’s troubling. To some degree, the Cruze is already old news upon its arrival here, the same way the Ford Fiesta has had a nice long run in Europe prior to visiting Ellis Island. Why?

The answer is simple: this is a Daewoo. My direct, repeated questions to GM personnel regarding the Cruze’s Korean ancestry were answered honestly but with perhaps too-scrupulous attention to detail. I was repeatedly told that “the architecture was engineered in Germany”, and I was repeatedly told about the “global nature” of the engineering, but the plain fact of the matter is that the Daewoo Lacetti was largely engineered, styled, and developed by Daewoo in Korea. It was then modified in some detail to become the Chevrolet Cruze. It’s a Korean car, and if it isn’t quite a Korean-market transplant like the Aveo, it’s very far from being a European design like the Ford Focus or VW Jetta.

I've posted more links in the Chrysler thread - look for them on your own. And while you're at it, search for the image of a '09 Lacetti. Badge engineering and sleazy marketing do not make a Volt somehow some European car when it's really a Daewoo.

 

[Joey D]

Ever work/live in SoCal or the Bay? How about Chicago? Live outside the district (Washington DC) in Fairfax or Arlington? New York?

In those areas; a 20 mile commute can be a 2hr affair of stop-n-go road rage. It sucks. While I never used public transport when I lived in SD, Chicago (the 'el') & DC (metro) were used daily. Traffic in those places were hell.

No I live outside of and work in Detroit, where everyone drives a car on an outdated highway system that's always under-construction. You want traffic hell come to this area. Having zero public transportation options make the highways a nightmare.

And here's a link/quote about the Daewoo-ness of GM's Cruze;

I've posted more links in the Chrysler thread - look for them on your own. And while you're at it, search for the image of a '09 Lacetti. Badge engineering and sleazy marketing do not make a Volt somehow some European car when it's really a Daewoo.

Ok that's the Cruze, now where does the Volt come into this? And even then the Cruze is only exteriorly a Daewoo, it's still a Opel underneath.

And even then the TTAC guys say this about it:

The rest of you can buy a Cruze with a clear conscience. It’s built here, it’s feature-packed, it doesn’t lag behind the competition, and it’s likely to be a reliable, decent vehicle.

So even those idiots on that site seem to think it's a good car.

Now show me something, not from a car blog, that proves the Chevy Volt is a Daewoo.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Prove to me that the Chevy Volt is a rebadged Daewoo. And don't even try that Lacetti Premiere crap because I've just shown you that's wrong.

And trust me I hate GM with a passion so I'm not some rampant GM fanboy.

Here ya go:

The reality is this: the Cruze does use the GM global Delta II platform that underpins all of GM’s current cars in this size class. And the Delta platform was originally developed by Opel, for the last generation Astra. But taking advantage of an existing platform architecture, and developing the rest of the car around it, doesn’t make it an Opel. It’s the fine tuning, the details, the parts sourcing, and lots of other details that make the finished product.

The Cruze is substantially from Daewoo, just not quite as much as the Aveo.

...and

Don’t believe everything you read everywhere. I could spend all day correcting the PR blather and mis-information endlessly passed along the press and blogosphere.

I already tried to explain it before, but here goes: Daewoo designed and engineered this car, using the GM Delta II platform. The platform was the starting point; that’s what they got from Opel. But from the platform on, Daewoo did the rest of the primary work to develop this car and get into production. Yes, they undoubtedly had input from NA and Holden, but Daewoo put it all together. It’s their car. They can take credit for it. And notice how Henderson doesn’t deny it. Because that’s the truth.

Another huge mis-conception is that the Saturn Vue and Opel Antera CUVs were designed by Opel. Flat out not true; both were designed by Daewoo. Which exlains why they’re so heavy (4200 lbs). Opel would not let that have happened.

From here

Ron: Is the new Chevy Cruze a rebranded Daewoo, or a genuinely novel GM product? I understand it will be assembled in the US.

Fritz Henderson: cruze is an all new vehicle developed as a true chevrolet. we will build the vehicle in our plant in lordstown, ohio.

Ron, that’s a great question, but you shouldn’t expect real answers from a GM livechat with Fritz Henderson. Yes, the Cruze was engineered in South Korea by Daewoo, but it’s not a developing-market-mobile with a bowtie like the first Cruze. And the Aveo. And the forthcoming Spark. It’s a global product, sold in different markets as the Daewoo Lacetti, the Holden Cruze and the Chevrolet Cruze. It’s even a pace car! But to answer your question, the major difference between the Daewoo pictured above and the US-market Cruze is engine options. Other than that… Dude, you’re getting a Daewoo!

*those quotes are from both Niedermayers, the founders of the site. I don't particularly care for most of their writers, but the Niedermayers & Baruth seem to put facts first.

.....

You can believe that it's an Opel just like you can believe in the flying spaghetti monster. The fact that GM will not refute the Korean connection between the Cruze/Volt & Lacetti is very telling.

Oh, and the battery packs in the Volt will say 'MADE IN KOREA'.

 

[buickgnx88]

ZOMG IT MAY BE A DAEWOO! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Now show me something, not from a car blog, that proves the Chevy Volt is a Daewoo.

No - you show me something, something concrete, that the Volt is an Opel or a european design. Prove it.

Look at the Cruze. Look at the lacetti. Look at the Volt and prove to everyone that those 3 cars are Opels.

You can't b/c they are not.

......

Michigan traffic is not nearly as bad as you think. I've beaten on plenty of rentals there and compared to where the Volt is going to first be released, it's nothing. Go to LA sometime...or better yet, take a road trip from SD to the bay and tell me how you think an EV would manage that trip.

 

[Joey D]

You can believe that it's an Opel just like you can believe in the flying spaghetti monster. The fact that GM will not refute the Korean connection between the Cruze/Volt & Lacetti is very telling.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. Chevy Volt != Chevy Cruze. They share the same platform, which was developed by Opel. The Cruze's exterior was designed by Daewoo, I'm not denying that but the Volt and the Cruze aren't the same car.

I mean do you think the Lotus Elise and Opel Speedster are the same car?

Oh, and the battery packs in the Volt will say 'MADE IN KOREA'.

You mean made in the USA? As in Brownstown Township, MI.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/responsibility/environment/news/2010/voltbattery_010710.jsp

No - you show me something, something concrete, that the Volt is an Opel or a european design. Prove it.

Ummm I'm not making ridiculous claims.

The Delta II platform was designed by Opel in Germany.

Look at the Cruze. Look at the lacetti. Look at the Volt and prove to everyone that those 3 cars are Opels.

You can't b/c they are not.

You right they aren't. They share the same platform and the Cruze and Lacetti Premiere share an exterior.

Michigan traffic is not nearly as bad as you think. I've beaten on plenty of rentals there and compared to where the Volt is going to first be released, it's nothing. Go to LA sometime...or better yet, take a road trip from SD to the bay and tell me how you think an EV would manage that trip.

Doubtful you've been here if you think that traffic isn't that bad. It's not LA area bad but it is some of the worse traffic in the country.

 

[Jondot]

Is it just me that thinks the Volt looks nothing like the Cruze? Y'know, other than having 4 doors and a Chevrolet badge on the front.

 

[Keef]

Is it just me that thinks the Volt looks nothing like the Cruze? Y'know, other than having 4 doors and a Chevrolet badge on the front.

No, you are correct, the two cars look nothing alike besides being cars. Besides his seeing things, I feel BrutherSuperior is on the verge of being reported if he keeps defending some of his claims which have been proven false.

 

[Giancarlo]

They'll be bringing a few Volts to my college campus next week. I'll try to get some pics and my thoughts after test driving one.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Ummm I'm not making ridiculous claims.

The Delta II platform was designed by Opel in Germany.

A 'platform' isn't a car. It's...well...a platform.

And here's C&D saying it's a Daewoo;

We’ve had our share of Daewoo-engineered cars in North America. There was the late-1980s Pontiac LeMans, the forgettable Suzuki Reno and Forenza, and Chevrolet’s uninspired Aveo econobox—all products of the Korean automaker. And don’t forget the actual Daewoo-badged cars that were sold here. Why give the Korean company another chance?

Unfazed by criticism of previous Daewoo-designed cars, GM gave the Koreans design leadership for the 2011 Chevrolet Cruze compact car

Look at the damn cars - the Cruze is a Daewoo. Forget the PR, the spin, and start being a little skeptical. Don't believe everything you read, do even minor research, and put the pieces together.

The Volt is a dressed up Cruze and the Cruze is being marketed as a Volt w/o a plug.

........

Batteries:

And as I sat in the press conference audience here in Detroit today, just moments ago, GM finally announced the contract had been awarded to LG chem of Korea using special large format lithium ion cells. The cells will be made in Korea, and shipped to the battery pack assembly plant in Michigan. More importantly GM will be building the packs themselves. although Compact Power will stay on as a collaborator.

GM-VOLT.com

No, you are correct, the two cars look nothing alike besides being cars. Besides his seeing things, I feel BrutherSuperior is on the verge of being reported if he keeps defending some of his claims which have been proven false.

Prove me false.

Report me if you don't like what I'm saying, fine. But one thing you cannot say is that I'm wrong.

If you like EVs, Daewoos, or whatever and I'm hurting your feelings - deal with it. The truth hurts and the truth is the Volt is a monumental failure from Korea.

 

[Joey D]

A 'platform' isn't a car. It's...well...a platform.

*slow clap*

That's correct, a platform designed by the Germans, which the Volt is based off of. The Volt was never based off the Cruze, it shares the same platform. Once again is a Lotus Elise and a Opel Speedster the same car?

Look at the damn cars - the Cruze is a Daewoo. Forget the PR, the spin, and start being a little skeptical. Don't believe everything you read, do even minor research, and put the pieces together.

I'm not disagreeing that the Cruze was designed by Daewoo, in fact I know it was designed by Daewoo. But it's still based off a German platform. Where does the Volt fit in?

The Volt is a dressed up Cruze and the Cruze is being marketed as a Volt w/o a plug.

No it isn't. If it was the production version would be like this with a plug sticking out of it:

Batteries

They are still built in Brownstown Township, MI. Actually here's a video of them being built in Brownstown Township as proof.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Edit: Disregard for now, will come up with something witty in next few moments. Missed the new page.

 

[Jondot]

Prove me false.

Report me if you don't like what I'm saying, fine. But one thing you cannot say is that I'm wrong.

If you like EVs, Daewoos, or whatever and I'm hurting your feelings - deal with it. The truth hurts and the truth is the Volt is a monumental failure from Korea.

Good lord, what do you have against Korea? Let's just stop here and consider that you are right - let's say that the Volt is one-hundred-percent a Cruze with some batteries in the boot. So what? The Cruze is by all means a good car - certainly no worse than the Opel that also shares its platform, might I add. In fact I'd say better, because it costs less and doesn't weigh 8 tonnes for seemingly no reason.

And just while I'm on this, how can you possibly criticise the Volt for looking like the Cruze (which it doesn't, particularly), and then just throw in a claim about the Leaf looking like 'nothing else' a few pages ago? Clearly you haven't seen the Leaf properly - it's the one that looks exactly like the Versa, only with arthritis of the face.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

That's correct, a platform designed by the Germans, which the Volt is based off of. The Volt was never based off the Cruze, it shares the same platform. Once again is a Lotus Elise and a Opel Speedster the same car?

A platform is not a car. It's more or less a general idea in which many makes/models can be based off of. Track, length, even suspension points can be changed from one car to another even though they share the same 'platform'. From this 'platform' Daewoo engineered the Lacetti which is a Chevy Cruze.

The difference between the Volt & Cruze is in the hybrid part of the powertrain & looks. But I feel that unless GM prints that in a brochure, you will not believe that. Whatever.

I'm not disagreeing that the Cruze was designed by Daewoo, in fact I know it was designed by Daewoo. But it's still based off a German platform. Where does the Volt fit in?

What German car is the Daewoo based off of? Don't buy too much into this 'platform' stuff. Is a Nissan Murano really a 350Z w/a lift kit? No, hell no. 2 completely different cars that share a 'platform'.

They are still built in Brownstown Township, MI. Actually here's a video of them being built in Brownstown Township as proof.

Um, what part of GM's press release saying that the battery contract was given to a Korean company, LG, and that the battery cells are being produced in Korea?

When you say batteries are being built/made in America - that means, well, they're being made here and they obviously are not. Cells are being made in Korea, shipped here, and packaged in Michigan. Big difference. The batteries are being made in Korea - that's from GM themselves.

Stop reading the propaganda

 

[Jondot]

The difference between the Volt & Cruze is in the hybrid part of the powertrain & looks.

Funny, I could have sworn you said they looked similar the other day...

Pictured: A Daewoo, that looks exactly like a Chevy Cruze, which looks like a Chevy Volt.

I'm a bit confused now, does it look like one or not?

 

[Joey D]

A platform is not a car. It's more or less a general idea in which many makes/models can be based off of. Track, length, even suspension points can be changed from one car to another even though they share the same 'platform'. From this 'platform' Daewoo engineered the Lacetti which is a Chevy Cruze.

The platform was engineered by Opel for the umpteenth time. Daewoo designed the exterior bits of the Cruze/ Lacetti Premiere. I'm not sure about the engine but I believe it's a German design as well.

The difference between the Volt & Cruze is in the hybrid part of the powertrain & looks. But I feel that unless GM prints that in a brochure, you will not believe that. Whatever.

Yup the difference between the Volt and the Cruze is the powertrain and looks. So the only thing that is similar on them is the platform, which is German.

What German car is the Daewoo based off of? Don't buy too much into this 'platform' stuff. Is a Nissan Murano really a 350Z w/a lift kit? No, hell no. 2 completely different cars that share a 'platform'.

You're seeing the light!

The Volt and Cruze are the same way. Two different car on the same platform.

Um, what part of GM's press release saying that the battery contract was given to a Korean company, LG, and that the battery cells are being produced in Korea?

When you say batteries are being built/made in America - that means, well, they're being made here and they obviously are not. Cells are being made in Korea, shipped here, and packaged in Michigan. Big difference. The batteries are being made in Korea - that's from GM themselves.

Stop reading the propaganda

The cells are made in Korea, yes, but the batteries are made in the US. I've shown you a video of the batteries being made, how can you argue with that? They make the batteries from components supplied from Korea, I'm willing to bet that most battery cell come from somewhere in Asia.

If you buy iron from Canada and turn it into steel in Mexico and then built a car with that steel in America then where is that part made at? America with components from global sources.

And I haven't read any propaganda at all. You are just throwing a bunch of wild stuff together to somehow make the car out to be Korean...which is isn't.

 

[YSSMAN]

Does anyone else feel like we're being trolled? I feel like we're being trolled. This is rather silly.

RE: What is the Chevrolet Cruze?
The Chevrolet Cruze is based on GM's Delta II chassis that was designed primarily by the Germans. The same platform rides under the Cruze and it's rebadged siblings (Buick, Daewoo, Holden etc), as well as the Opel Astra and its spin offs. The Chevrolet Orlando and Volt also use the same basic architecture. The Cruze itself was developed mostly by GM's Korean and European arms... And by no means is that a bad thing. The cars drive well, use upscale materials, and is well enough one of the best small cars your money can buy. Until the new Focus shows up, of course.

So, what is there to be angry about? Both the Cruze and the Volt are built right here in the US, by American workers, with money that goes to an American company. These are cars that we can be proud of, cars that are pushing boundaries forward in the segment. Are we going to be pissed off because the Camaro was developed by the Australians? What about the new Viper being worked on by the Italians? Does it really matter that much in the global economy that everyone seemed to be asking for?

RE: Where to Plug in a Plug-In
Assuming that you've been living under a rock, you're probably not aware of the fact that GM has already begun working with cities across the country with building an infrastructure that is capable of handling the demands of Volt drivers (the same can be said for the Leaf as well). This includes charging stations in parking lots and garages, curbside chargers, as well as businesses that are looking into providing places for both employees and customers to charge their vehicles. Cities like San Francisco, New York, Detroit, and Washington D.C. will be among the first to get some of the treatment.

You know, it's going to be different, but so what? The more that they sell, whether its the Volt, the Leaf, the Plug-In Prius or "something else," the easier it is going to be to get an EV, get it charged, and go about your life in the same way that you were before.

RE: Traffic, Brah
I'm failing to see your point here. If you live in a large enough city with a decent public transportation system, regardless of whether or not GM or Ford or Chrysler want to offer you a city car, you'd be an idiot to buy one. I don't think anyone is disputing that well-known fact. What you don't seem to understand is that GM isn't marketing the Volt to people living in the city. They are targeting people who live in the suburbs, or other sprawled out areas where they can travel the greatest distance possible while using very little (or no) fuel. Sitting in traffic in a Volt is going to be better for the environment than it would be if you were doing the same in a Civic. I'm failing to see your point in this regard.

 

[niky]

Did heaven and earth fall in the last time I was in here?

A few side notes:

“The Truth About Cars” is just a blog, but there are some pretty knowledgeable people on board. Then again, I have two articles on the site, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I don’t have more because the timing of my test drives always coincide with that of Michael Karesh (owner of TrueDelta, one of the better car reliability survey sites on the internet) or Jack Baruth, who is one crazy mofo and is a better writer than me.

Overall, knowledge and opinion is no better or worse than anything else on the internet. And thankfully Edward didn't participate in the big brouhaha the other blogs got into over the drivetrain "lie"... In truth, they are overly critical of the Volt, but there are good reasons to be. The contrived way in which GM and mainstream media report economy (0 gallons = infinite MPG... no, we won't report how much electricity we used... that's not important). The promise of incredible fuel economy in charge-sustaining mode. The incredible price tag.

For those who haven't seen my articles on TTAC:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/03/review-2011-mazda2-european-spec/
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/05/videogame-review-gran-turismo-5-prologue-gt5p/

-

The Volt shares a platform with the Cruze. A platform engineered by Opel. Now, I'll be the first of anyone to deride anything made by Daewoo. Their in-house engineered cars developed before the crash just plain suck. But there's a big difference between Daewoo and GMDAT. The Captiva is the first clean-sheet project by GMDAT that isn't based on a previous Daewoo product, and the engineering is worlds better than the Aveo, Spark or old Lacetti. The Cruze is not only clean-sheet, it's based on an Opel platform. so even though there are issues with the drivetrain (every road tester, without exception, HATES the automatic), the driving dynamics and chassis are world class.

And the chassis is the only thing the Volt shares with the Cruze. And not even that... just the platform. The platform which everyone calls the Astra platform. Not the Lacetti platform. In fact, BruddaSuperior is about the only person I've met so far who actually sees it the other way around.

And so what if the batteries are LG? Did we miss the point where Korean tech companies leapfrogged the Japanese over the past decade? And the fact that many of the patents for high-end LCD systems are held by LG? (oh, I know the point is that the cells are made by a Korean company... but having semiconductors made in Asia, chips made elsewhere and Chinese steel casing doesn't make other American-assembled products non-american.

-

The fact that the Volt's engine acts to drive the wheels is not a big minus for me. In fact, it's common sense. The strange thing is that GM denied that this was the case, for marketing purposes... when those of us who knew of such things were wondering why GM didn't want to do it, since connecting the engine to the wheels through a planetary gear was a good way to achieve good extended-range economy.

And yet, even while doing this, the Volt doesn't get nearly the same economy the Prius does in ER mode... which is puzzling, since the mechanical aspect is quite similar.

I'm hopeful for the direction in which the Volt takes automotive technology, because, on paper, it's a better solution than the Prius. But the Volt has been ridiculously overhyped and built up by GM... thus if some people express major disappointment in the car, they only have themselves to blame.

 

[homeforsummer]

What the hell is an 'extended-range EV'?

It's an EV... with extended range.

Funny, that.

Is a Prius an extended range EV? No, it's a petrol car that can run in EV mode for very short distances.

The Volt has useable EV range (whatever you say - and I note you've completely ignored my comments about drivers managing significantly more than 40 miles, and also ignored that most users won't drive it like motoring journos on a mission.

It can also run at highway speeds on pure EV, like a regular EV. A Prius, nor a Honda hybrid, cannot. It only ceases to be an EV when you're running low and the extended range motor kicks in, either to maintain charge (where the vehicle is still being powered by the electric motor) or to assist (where drive is taken from the engine through a system of gears to the wheels).

A Prius on the other hand runs direct engine drive through a CVT transmission, but can also run in EV mode. That doesn't make it an EV because the electric motor isn't the main source of drive like it is in the Volt.

A quote from a review about the Chevy Cruze, which is the Volt w/o the hybrid engine;

from here

Nice, TTAC again. Or an even more car-fascist Jalopnik.

GM will not confirm or deny that the Volt/Cruze is a Daewoo just like GM will not confirm or deny some of the pitiful MPG & electric range figures.

GM doesn't need to confirm anything that independant testers have found. It's not like they're hiding what's publically available.

And they certainly don't need to claim this utter load of tosh you're spewing about it being a re-badged Daewoo.

If it's a city car, how & where are you supposed to plug it in?

It's not a city car. I see you ignored that post of mine as well.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

I'm just going to leave these here:

(notice the banner in the background)

(ha!)

....

Discuss

Does anyone else feel like we're being trolled? I feel like we're being trolled. This is rather silly.

Huh? Just b/c you don't like what someone has to say doesn't mean they're doing it just to get under your skin. Stop being paranoid.

RE: What is the Chevrolet Cruze?
The Chevrolet Cruze is based on GM's Delta II chassis that was designed primarily by the Germans. The same platform rides under the Cruze and it's rebadged siblings (Buick, Daewoo, Holden etc), as well as the Opel Astra and its spin offs. The Chevrolet Orlando and Volt also use the same basic architecture. The Cruze itself was developed mostly by GM's Korean and European arms... And by no means is that a bad thing. The cars drive well, use upscale materials, and is well enough one of the best small cars your money can buy. Until the new Focus shows up, of course.

So the car that's billed/marketed to save Detroit is a quazi-Korean thing. GM says it's all-American. I say it's not and I'm 100% right.

So, what is there to be angry about? Both the Cruze and the Volt are built right here in the US, by American workers, with money that goes to an American company. These are cars that we can be proud of, cars that are pushing boundaries forward in the segment. Are we going to be pissed off because the Camaro was developed by the Australians? What about the new Viper being worked on by the Italians? Does it really matter that much in the global economy that everyone seemed to be asking for?

If the car was built on an Opel/German platform, wouldn't that make it a German car? The BMW X5, numerous Toyotas & Hondas are manufactured in the US, but no one says they're an American car now do they?

And yes, it matters much despite the global economy. US taxpayers bailed out a bankrupt, corrupt, and woefully incompetent company - not the global economy. Billions upon billions given to GM, and they re-badge a car and put batteries in it. Yes, that's a big deal.

RE: Where to Plug in a Plug-In
Assuming that you've been living under a rock, you're probably not aware of the fact that GM has already begun working with cities across the country with building an infrastructure that is capable of handling the demands of Volt drivers (the same can be said for the Leaf as well). This includes charging stations in parking lots and garages, curbside chargers, as well as businesses that are looking into providing places for both employees and customers to charge their vehicles. Cities like San Francisco, New York, Detroit, and Washington D.C. will be among the first to get some of the treatment.

I don't live under a rock, I live under something much worse; the iron fist of the IRS.

Who do you think is going to pay for all that 'infrastructure'? Volt drivers? No. We all will. The Fed is broke, California is broke, NY city is broke, Detroit is worse than broke, and D.C. pulls from the same piggy bank as the Fed.

How many billions will be wasted on this? How much longer than expected will this take? How much over budget will this take? The gov't doesn't spend money well b/c it's not really their money, it's ours. And if it's built in these places, who runs it? The same folks who run the Post Office? They're broke. The same folks who run Amtrak? They're broke. How about the public transport agencies? They're probably deep in the red too.

So what happens? Another gov't 'experiment' will become a welfare recipient. There's a snoball's chance in hell something like that will break even or be profitable in the long run.

You know, it's going to be different, but so what? The more that they sell, whether its the Volt, the Leaf, the Plug-In Prius or "something else," the easier it is going to be to get an EV, get it charged, and go about your life in the same way that you were before.

This is utopia huh? Drive around the country sometime and you'll see why EV's, at best, are a niche product.

RE: Traffic, Brah
Sitting in traffic in a Volt is going to be better for the environment than it would be if you were doing the same in a Civic. I'm failing to see your point in this regard.

My point is that the Volt will not travel 40 miles on a charge in rush-hour traffic. Tooling around the neiborhood, going to the grocery store; ok...it works. But slogging through LA, NY, DC, Chicago traffic - no way.

From going from your house in the suburbs to you workplace in the city is often done via public transportation. Trains, subways, buses which are generally on schedule are a lot less expensive than parking in a city.

The Volt is a fashion accessory and will be the MS Zune to Apple's Ipod, which is the Prius. It's doomed. Look at the Civic Hybrid; MPGs, hybrid tech, and Honda's reputation wasn't enough to move those off of lots. It wasn't the right 'designer label' and I see no reason why the Volt will all of the sudden become the 'it' product. The Civic Hybrid got absolutely killed by Honda SUV sales.

People, in the end, don't really give a **** about MPGs - it's all about image.

It's not better for the environment if hipsters junk their perfectly good cars for this. Know what is? Keeping your current car a few years longer. This whole 'green' battery powered nonsense is a fraud. The politicians got some hair brained idea to make oil & the very air we exhale a boogieman and legislated their idea b/c of hubris.

Let the market/people decide without regulations, tax-breaks, subsidies, taxes on taxes, or other intervention. In an environment with little intervention from Uncle Sam, I doubt this car would even make it past a water cooler discussion. There's some really neat ideas out there on how to make the combustion engine much more efficient, but Obama says batteries...so we get batteries whether we like it or not.

If, by some act of divine intervention, the Gov't gets out of most facets of the car business (de-regulation, taxation, & selling it's ownership of GM), and if EVs do sell like hotcakes - I'll buy you a steak dinner and open a bar tab for ya.

 

[Joey D]

Don't double post.

Huh? Just b/c you don't like what someone has to say doesn't mean they're doing it just to get under your skin. Stop being paranoid.

You've beaten the point of the Volt somehow being a Korean car to death when it's been proven time and time again to be an incorrect statement. As far as I can tell the only reason you are doing it now is to start something, either that or you just don't read anything that's posted.

If the car was built on an Opel/German platform, wouldn't that make it a German car? The BMW X5, numerous Toyotas & Hondas are manufactured in the US, but no one says they're an American car now do they?

No it wouldn't make it a German car. You really should research platform sharing, I think you'd be surprised what you find. Is a Pontiac Vibe a Toyota? Is the Lotus Elise and Opel Speedster? There a bunch of platforms developed by different companies. It doesn't change where the car is made.

Both the Volt and the Cruze and built in America, they are American cars using parts from a global economy. And even then GM is only sharing from itself.

Who do you think is going to pay for all that 'infrastructure'? Volt drivers? No. We all will. The Fed is broke, California is broke, NY city is broke, Detroit is worse than broke, and D.C. pulls from the same piggy bank as the Fed.

We are going to need the infrastructure eventually. Do you think petrol stations naturally appear in the wild? No, they were built with the introduction of the internal combustion engine.

Honestly I don't see how charging stations will be any different. You will still pay for the electricity and I'm guessing once charging stations become more wide spread you'll see companies installing them and selling electricity.

From going from your house in the suburbs to you workplace in the city is often done via public transportation. Trains, subways, buses which are generally on schedule are a lot less expensive than parking in a city.

Not in every city. And even then I have never used a public transportation system that runs on any thing I would consider a "schedule" and I've used a lot of them.

Political Rant

Ahhh the truth emerges why you hate the car.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

You've beaten the point of the Volt somehow being a Korean car to death when it's been proven time and time again to be an incorrect statement. As far as I can tell the only reason you are doing it now is to start something, either that or you just don't read anything that's posted.

When pressed, GM will not deny that claim. Believe wikipedia if you want, I'm a bit more skeptical.

No it wouldn't make it a German car. You really should research platform sharing, I think you'd be surprised what you find. Is a Pontiac Vibe a Toyota? Is the Lotus Elise and Opel Speedster? There a bunch of platforms developed by different companies. It doesn't change where the car is made.

Both the Volt and the Cruze and built in America, they are American cars using parts from a global economy. And even then GM is only sharing from itself.

So is it an All-American car? No, it isn't. Korean design, Korean cells, and an Opel 'platform' that's being assembled in the US. Pathetic. GM laid off how many engineers? Why, so the design of this halo car can be outsourced overseas? This is what a bailout buys?

We are going to need the infrastructure eventually.

Says who? GM? Nancy Pelosi?

Do you think petrol stations naturally appear in the wild?

Do you think money grows on trees?

No, they were built with the introduction of the internal combustion engine.

Wrong. There was a demand and oil companies were there to invest in the new market. Evil oil companies set up gas stations. Not politicians w/a blank check. Big difference.

Honestly I don't see how charging stations will be any different. You will still pay for the electricity and I'm guessing once charging stations become more wide spread you'll see companies installing them and selling electricity.

Buy a stopwatch. Time how long it takes to fill up a tank of gas and how long it takes to charge an EV. Are the times different?

Not in every city. And even then I have never used a public transportation system that runs on any thing I would consider a "schedule" and I've used a lot of them.

Leave Michigan sometime. Chicago is a few hours away, DC is a cool place to visit over a weekend, and shopping in NY is good (the pizza isn't what it's cracked up to be). Public transportation in those places have a schedule and are usually somewhat on time.

Ahhh the truth emerges why you hate the car.

This all started b/c I said this will be the worst car sold in the US. It's doomed to fail, it has cost taxpayers billions of dollars, and it will not live up to its hype. It's a political experiment and a financial boondoggle in a time when the economy is in dire straits. A car most people don't want and most can't afford.

Brilliant huh?

 

[Joey D]

When pressed, GM will not deny that claim. Believe wikipedia if you want, I'm a bit more skeptical.

You have yet to prove how a Volt is Korean. You've shown a blog written by idiots, nothing more. Show me evidence, concrete proof that the Volt is Korean. Until then you be trollin, you be hatin, you be ridin dirty.

So is it an All-American car? No, it isn't. Korean design, Korean cells, and an Opel 'platform' that's being assembled in the US. Pathetic. GM laid off how many engineers? Why, so the design of this halo car can be outsourced overseas? This is what a bailout buys?

No car is all anything. No product is all anything. We live on a globalised planet, get over it.

Says who? GM? Nancy Pelosi?

Oil prices will not remain low forever, we eventually need to switch to something more cost effective. Since electricity is what we've come up with then that's what you're going to get. This is unless we find out some way to claim hydrogen without using a helluva lot of power.

Do you think money grows on trees?

It cost more money to build a petrol station then it does to build a charging station. I can go to Home Depot and buy a good battery charger for a couple hundred bucks.

Wrong. There was a demand and oil companies were there to invest in the new market. Evil oil companies set up gas stations. Not politicians w/a blank check. Big difference.

The demand of electrical companies will be these to invest in a new market. What's your point? You'll see third party companies step in once EV's get going and they will install charging stations all over the place. Roll up, plug in, swipe your charge card, go about your business, come out, unplug, drive away.

And who do you think supports big oil?

Buy a stopwatch. Time how long it takes to fill up a tank of gas and how long it takes to charge an EV. Are the times different?

No thanks, my watches don't rock a "stopwatch function". But big deal, you charge up at home, you charge up at work. I'm at work 9-10 hours a day, 5 days a week. That would easily top off an EV. Cars like these will be great commuter vehicles for people who don't drive to much and don't live all that far from work.

If you drive long distances you'll probably end up with something like the Volt, a car that can drive around the city on electric power and have a petrol or diesel engine that will charge the batteries as you drive.

Leave Michigan sometime. Chicago is a few hours away, DC is a cool place to visit over a weekend, and shopping in NY is good (the pizza isn't what it's cracked up to be). Public transportation in those places have a schedule and are usually somewhat on time.

I just spend a week in DC, well Bethesda, about a month ago. The Metro was late or delayed everytime I rode it...which was 6-8 times a day. I got to Chicago fairly frequently and the only reliable public transport I found has been cabs. I take trains while I'm there and they are always late.

A couple years ago I spent 6 weeks in the UK, the trains were always late as well. Went to Barcelona and it was no different, probably worse.

I've travelled a lot and used quite a bit of public transportation. It's great because it means I don't have to drive but I have to go on their schedule...whatever that may be.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

The cells are made in Korea, yes, but the batteries are made in the US. I've shown you a video of the batteries being made, how can you argue with that? They make the batteries from components supplied from Korea, I'm willing to bet that most battery cell come from somewhere in Asia.

Watch that video again.

See that big silver thing that, what seems like, 20 workers put a plug and a few bolts on? That's a battery...a Korean one.

They're adding mounting hardware and a plug. If you put a battery in your Mag Light, did you build it? No. Stop believing in the propaganda.

It's a Korean battery that, according to that video, wasn't even assembled in the US. That's why the video by GM says 'Building' instead of 'manufacturing'. If they used the latter or put a Made in USA sticker on it - there will be litigation for the next decade.

It's a Korean battery as a battery is nothing more than a cell or cells.

You have yet to prove how a Volt is Korean. You've shown a blog written by idiots, nothing more. Show me evidence, concrete proof that the Volt is Korean.

Next you're going to ask me for concrete proof and evidence that bigfoot does not exist.

You call journalists idiots, fine. The only entity you seem to trust is the same one that's lying to you; GM. Do you work for them? Be honest...

Until then you be trollin, you be hatin, you be ridin dirty.

Is this what they teach in Michigan' public schools?

 

[Joey D]

Next you're going to ask me for concrete proof and evidence that bigfoot does not exist.

You're making a claim, I'm asking for evidence. It's fairly simple. There has to be something that made you think that the Volt is Korean. And the answer does not have the words the Cruze or Lacetti Premiere in it.

You call journalists idiots, fine. The only entity you seem to trust is the same one that's lying to you; GM.

Blogger != Journalist. Hell I'm a blogger and I'm not journalist.

Do you work for them? Be honest...

Nope, I work in healthcare.

Is this what they teach in Michigan' public schools?

Twas but a joke good sir....*bows*

 

[buickgnx88]

 

[YSSMAN]

So is it an All-American car? No, it isn't. Korean design, Korean cells, and an Opel 'platform' that's being assembled in the US. Pathetic. GM laid off how many engineers? Why, so the design of this halo car can be outsourced overseas? This is what a bailout buys?

You do realize that the Volt has been entirely designed and engineered int he US, right? Have you even read anything about the car whatsoever? Do you also realize that we are sending the Volt out to other markets to be re-badged? At GM, that never happens. The American stuff rarely leaves North America. That's a big deal if you've taken the time to know and understand how the company has operated in the past couple of years.

[RE: Infrastructure] Says who? GM? Nancy Pelosi?

Says common sense, frankly. Take a look at the condition of the roads, bridges. Read the stories about how weak our electric and telecommunication systems are. Engineers are going crazy because we're doing nothing about it, even after knowing about the problems for the better part of two decades.

Buy a stopwatch. Time how long it takes to fill up a tank of gas and how long it takes to charge an EV. Are the times different?

Quick charge stations are supposed to be able to charge your vehicle to at least half-way in a matter of minutes. Technology is changing as demand changes. Assuming you've kept your Leaf or Volt at a decent level, going to the park and plugging in your car while you take the dog for a walk should bring it back to 100%.

Leave Michigan sometime. Chicago is a few hours away, DC is a cool place to visit over a weekend, and shopping in NY is good (the pizza isn't what it's cracked up to be). Public transportation in those places have a schedule and are usually somewhat on time.

I live in West Michigan. I frequent Chicago several times a year. Traffic is not that bad, public transport is okay. I go to Miami as well, the the bus system is fine. San Diego has the best overall system I've experienced, but just like Michigan, people in California prefer to travel by car when given the opportunity.

Common sense suggests that those who live in the city wouldn't want a car anyway. A motorcycle is enough of a stretch at times. People in the suburbs would love the car. That's all that GM cares about, selling it to people who want it. They'll sell 10,000 in the first year. They'll probably sell their targeted 60,000 in the second year. Launch windows for December are focused on sprawled out cities to begin with. Los Angeles, Houston, Washington D.C. and so on.

"I'm angry and not going to take it anymore..."

And it affects you how? Your politics are blinding your common sense. Get over it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. You're acting as though this car is some kind of attack on your way of life, your view of politics, and whatever other flag-waving patriot nonsense you can come up with. Instead of reading skewed views of what the car is or is not, I'd highly suggest that you go out to your local Chevrolet dealer when the car shows up and experience it for yourself.

For the rest of us, the car meets our expectations. It is a car that has been designed, tested and built in the US by American workers for an American company. It is a car that challenges the notion that cars must be hybrid or electric, nothing else. It pushes boundaries forward, whether successful or not. It is an extremely important car that will decide a lot of where the industry on the whole goes in the next decade. The simple fact that the Volt drives like a regular car, but is otherwise an EV is a pleasing flavor for the "Middle American" market that they want to reach. Sure, it may go to intellectuals, hipsters, and *gasp* Liberals at first... But so did the Prius. GM wants the Volt to be the anti-Prius, and I think they've done a good job.

The next step for GM is putting Voltec into other vehicles. They plan to do it with the Orlando, I'd like to see them do it with a smaller B-segment car. Make it a coupe, stick a stiffer suspension on it, go after the CR-Z.