Chevrolet Volt/Cadillac ELR Thread: 2016 EPA Ratings

[YSSMAN]

Did you sit in the back seat with the front seat positioned for a 6 footer? If so how was it?

I sat in the driver's side rear seat, our driver was about 6ft and at least 200 lbs. I had plenty of room with the seat back, perhaps the only issue being getting my size 11 shoes out between the back of the seat and the small opening that the rear door has on the bottom. Although, it seems that it is fairly typical for compacts and the smaller mid-size vehicles these days.

I personally feel you may have been duped by a well planned experience to make you think you have experienced enough to think the Volt is worth it, but I need to enjoy a car.

"Duped" wouldn't be the word I would use, but I would not deny having fallen for the clever marketing. Part of it is being a GM brat, another is being proud of the cars we're building in Michigan, and another is believing in the technology behind the car. Honestly, it wouldn't have taken much for GM to blow me over. It ended up being more of a proof of concept, and addressing my curiosities, than actually showing me anything substantial about the car.

That being said, there is a big difference between people like me seeing a car they've been dreaming about, and the average person from Chicago that won't even have the option of buying the car for at least another 12 months. My assumption is that, for a lot of the people there, it was more about seeing a car that they've heard about on the news and in the advertisements, and seeing that it isn't much more than a regular car with an electric motor. Compared to the way in which Toyota was showing off the Priuses, or Nissan with the Leaf, I'd say that Chevrolet's work with the Volt was a bit more daring. They wanted you to get in there, press the buttons, go for a ride, and ask questions.

Still, you can only go so far with the thing. I've only seen one Volt on the road around here, and it's still going to be months until they're more easy to get a hold of at a local dealer. Most of my understanding of the car comes from that single experience, and reading about what they're saying on the Edmunds long-term model.

It feels like a slightly less craptastic Cobalt, so I assume it feels exactly like the Cruz then (haven't been in a Cruz).

Everything I've read has lead me to believe that the Cruze and Volt drive very similarly (read: quite well), but that the Volt's weight being centered so low in the vehicle because of the battery really makes it handle and ride quite well.

 

[homeforsummer]

I've finally had a go in a Volt.

Chevrolet had a few available to test at Geneva. It was only a brief drive unfortunately, but such is the way when there are a hundred other journos on the list to have a go before the day is out. I got maybe a mile and a half of driving and another mile or so as a passenger to a German journo.

First thing to note - I quite like the interior. Under the bright lights of a show hall it looks... well, a little cheap and tacky, like they've gone for an iPod style feel but over-compensated and made a Korean copy instead. However, out under natural light it's a lot better, and looks and feels classier than I thought it would. Quite German, in fact, and the Opel Ampera they had at the show finally in production form really wasn't that different inside, just a little darker.

The display screens look cool, and I like the big gear selector that sits in a cavity in the dash when it's in park. The seats are comfy too and the whole thing feels screwed together well.

Starting it... is silent. There's a little jingle but otherwise, that's it. All the screens come to life and you're free to go. Put it in reverse and the dash screen turns into a rear-view camera, which is handy as you can see jack-all out the rear screen.

The entire drive was done with plenty of charge and therefore no range-extending engine, so the whole drive was incredibly quiet, smooth and easy. The ride seemed good but the drive wasn't long enough to really test the steering or handling to any extent. I did get to put my foot down a bit though, and it was typical of any EV - loads of torque but all deployed incredibly smoothly and without fuss. Certainly felt "quick", if not actually fast.

The brakes were nice to use. There's braking regen, so when you lift off it slows a little more than a regular car might (and there's a mode to make the regen even stronger too), but pedal feel is good anyway and of course this adds to the regen. My only uncertainty is how there seems to be an extra bit of braking force over as you come to a halt, even if you've not pressed the pedal any harder. I can only assume this has something to do with the motor providing extra braking, but I reckon it'd take a bit of practice to come to a complete halt very smoothly.

As a passenger, again it seemed nice. The rear seats are comfortable (and quite sculpted, since it's strictly a four-seater), though the rear cabin seems a little dark thanks to the high window line and small rear screen. It'd no doubt be a nice place to sit over a long distance.

Overall impressions? I liked it. I've not taken much notice of the Volt up until now but it's turned my opinion around a bit. Only a bit though, I still have two main reservations:

One: It still seems like a very complicated car. If it's been very well engineered, then that's not a problem. If everything works as it should and always will, then it'll be a great car to own. However, I don't quite trust the huge complication of a range extending engine, and it's still something that needs maintenance and still needs gas, which is something you get rid of entirely with a full-electric car. I'd still prefer a full electric car over the Volt since you do away with the need to make two powertrains work rather than just one.

Two: It's still expensive. Especially so in Europe. And we have plenty of cars here that can do more or less the same thing for a lot less money. Okay, so there are very few cars that could beat it for economy around town given the 40 mile EV range, but if all your driving is long-distance then you'd be better served by a BMW 3-Series with a diesel engine.

 

[YSSMAN]

Good review!


One of the things I've noticed with the long-term test Edmunds is running right now is that your mileage will vary. They've been averaging well over 30 miles of electric range, covering most of the trips that they make... But if they aren't charging it at the right time, or are getting charged the rather high California rates, the financial sensibility of the car begins to go downhill.

I'd be interested to see what the kw/h rates in Europe are versus the US. Perhaps that, combined with the typically shorter distances you travel, would make the Volt/Ampera an even better option than it is here on home turf.

 

[homeforsummer]

Well the most interesting piece of info I got from the show is that the Ampera allows you to hold the EV charge until it becomes useful - so if you commute into a city every day, you can start your journey with the engine running to keep the charge up, and then when you get into a city (that in Europe could well have restrictions on non-EVs) you can turn it off and run on pure EV, taking advantage of emissions restrictions that only allow EVs in certain parts of certain cities. And of course, you get more use from a 30-odd mile EV range around town where you're going slowly than you would on a freeway when 30 miles is gone in less than 30 minutes.

The Volt doesn't have this option, yet. It's a logical feature though I'd say which could definitely go down well in Europe.

 

[JCE]

Hmmm, seems the Volt is a worthless pile as I predicted.

Is Chevy Volt Running Out of Juice?

Is the Chevrolet Volt running out of juice? Even as the maker begins its long-promised production ramp-up, a new study suggests that potential buyers are rapidly losing interest in the plug-in hybrid vehicle.

Introduced last December, Volt is one of the first new vehicles to test the potential market for electric propulsion. It has been going head-to-head with Nissan’s pure battery-electric LEAF. Sales of the two vehicles have been marginal, at best, though the makers insist that has more to do with limited supply than buyer demand.

Through the end of July, Chevy has sold about 3,200 of the plug-in hybrids compared to 4,500 Nissan Leafs. But both makers have begun ramping up production, General Motors forecasting sales of around 16,000 for the year as a whole – including a small number of Volt clone Opel Amperas targeted at markets abroad.

But a new study by CNW marketing raises a red flag, finding that the potential buyers GM is most counting on are rapidly losing interest in the Volt. In March, 21% of so-called Early Adapters said they were “very likely” to consider buying a Volt, while 38.1% said they were “likely” to do the same. That slipped to 14.6% saying “very likely” in July, and 31.1% “likely.” Among EV Enthusiasts, reports the CNW study, the number of those likely or very likely to consider Volt fell from a combined 71% to 51% during the same four-month period.

“It’s way too early to tell, but the signs aren’t encouraging,” said CNW’s chief analyst Art Spinella.
When it comes to mainstream consumers Volt has all but slipped off the radar screen, only about 3% of new car buyers likely to consider the Chevrolet Volt, the analyst added.

The big problem is the plug-in’s price, CNW data indicate. When first introduced, the Volt carried a $41,000 sticker, though it qualified for a $7,500 federal tax credit. For 2012, the Chevy will drop to $39,995, a $1,005 cut, though it is still thousands more than the Leaf – and nearly double the price of a base Chevrolet Cruze compact, which shares the same underpinnings as Volt.

Chevy officials defend the price tag, pointing to the complexity of the dual gas-electric hybrid drivetrain. Volt is capable of clocking more than 35 miles on battery power alone. While that’s less than half of the range of the Nissan electric vehicle, the Chevy can shift to gas power and keep driving once its batteries run down.

GM officials remain convinced that Volt will meet their expectations, noting the vehicle doesn’t need to generate a wide appeal to still reach sales targets – which the maker projects will grow to 40,000 in 2012, including both Volt and Ampera.

GM’s commitment to electric propulsion is, if anything, being charged up. As TheDetroitBureau.com reported last week, the maker has inked a deal with battery supplier A123 that will be used for a range of new battery-electric vehicles that will begin to reach market in 2014.

Diesel electric hybrid or hydrogen electric hybrid FTW! Seriously, $40,000 GM? Are you kidding me?

 

[Robin]

The problem with the Volt is that it was designed to please a Prius crazy world but took so damn long to get to production that range extended cars and hybrids in general is old hat now. I bet by the time it comes out in the UK no one will even care. Its a pity because its one of the best looking Hybrids out there.

100% EV is where its at. That's what the people who buy these kind of cars want and the costs are roughly the same give or take a few grand. Battery tech is also making the need for any engine on board obsolete. The BYD e6 can go 186 miles on one charge for goodness sake!

A few years from now when Hydrogen gets sorted this will happen all over again with EV's being dumped.

 

[homeforsummer]

Hmmm, seems the Volt is a worthless pile as I predicted.

Or you could not believe the only article you read


Five Reasons Why The Chevrolet Volt Isn’t Losing Popularity

 

[Joey D]

Or you could not believe the only article you read


Five Reasons Why The Chevrolet Volt Isn’t Losing Popularity

I am rather amused that the Lower Peninsula of Michigan got the Volt in Q1 of 2011 but the Upper Peninsula won't get it until Q4 2011. It's only separated by a 5 mile bridge!

But ya Volts are everywhere here, but I suspect that many of them are GM's fleet vehicles. There is still a pretty healthy number of consumer owned ones though.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Or you could not believe the only article you read


Five Reasons Why The Chevrolet Volt Isn’t Losing Popularity

The Volt was never popular to begin with. GM sold <130 last month.

The reason it's not being sold everywhere is b/c it doesn't make sense anywhere other than a suburban setting. If you live in a large city; you probably have an apartment or condo. If you live out in the sticks, you have long commutes with lots of highway driving. The Big 3 metropolitan areas in the US makes car ownership a miserable experience.

EV's might make sense if you have 2 other cars...past that, they don't. This is green-eco-utopia. The only people who really want EVs are governments. If the market demanded battery operated vehicles, GM would have sold more than 130 last month.

 

[homeforsummer]

The Volt was never popular to begin with. GM sold <130 last month.

They haven't been building many so far. The market can only buy what the company builds, and the market can also only buy what they have access to. Only 11 percent of dealers have had a car in stock so chances are that until production ramps up, not many people will have had a chance to drive one either.

I don't disagree that price is a bit of an issue with the Volt but the product certainly isn't. And it makes a lot more sense (in the States at least) than pure EV.

As point #5 in the article I posted points out too, the source of the popularity article isn't the most reliable, being the one that claimed a Toyota Prius consumed more energy during its lifecycle than a Tahoe. Call me cynical but it's not a particularly well-educated source.

Quite aside from all that, the Volt is a pretty nice car to drive and the people who have bought one love it.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

They haven't been building many so far. The market can only buy what the company builds, and the market can also only buy what they have access to. Only 11 percent of dealers have had a car in stock so chances are that until production ramps up, not many people will have had a chance to drive one either.

I don't disagree that price is a bit of an issue with the Volt but the product certainly isn't. And it makes a lot more sense (in the States at least) than pure EV.

As point #5 in the article I posted points out too, the source of the popularity article isn't the most reliable, being the one that claimed a Toyota Prius consumed more energy during its lifecycle than a Tahoe. Call me cynical but it's not a particularly well-educated source.

Quite aside from all that, the Volt is a pretty nice car to drive and the people who have bought one love it.

GM has the largest and longest inventory of any manufacturer. They're pretty much at pre-Obama buyout levels and are still puking out products out of their factories.

GM works on a 'push' system instead of a Japanese 'pull' system whereby you'd only make as many as you need. GM has always flooded their dealers with cars...now why do you think the Volt would be any different? I'll tell you: dealers can't move them...even a 130 of them. If the Volt was so hot, you'd have your dealer transfer the car from another. They can even transfer across state lines and even with that, they can't sell.

The Volt will probably go down in history as the halo car best representing everything wrong with GM & the politics of auto manufacturing.

It's a neat idea as a proof of concept. But as a mass-market appeal product and 'the car to save GM'; it's a POS.

 

[homeforsummer]

Detroit-Hammbach is an entirely retooled factory and still ramping up production.

There are several reasons it's not selling in huge numbers yet and none of them are because nobody wants one.

1) Production hasn't been scaled up yet
2) They've not advertised the thing in any great way yet - every single initial purchase has been word of mouth, essentially
3) It's a new product in a niche market full of early adopters. Since when has any product in such a market destroyed the sales charts?
4) It's only gone on sale in what, 15 states?
5) Most people haven't even come into contact with one - there need to be more on the road in order for people to figure out what they're like. It's a really green market (no pun intended) and essentially one that very few people properly know about. It's no surprise that a great many Volt buyers were previously Prius owners - they're the people familiar with the technology.

It's not that GM can't shift them or that they're producing to order - it's mass production, just building slowly.

The Nissan LEAF is exactly the same in that respect. Not many have been sold, but then not many have been made either.

 

[ExigeEvan]

A few years from now when Hydrogen gets sorted this will happen all over again with EV's being dumped.

The Japanese Tsunami has practically killed off Hydrogen. Countries like Germany and Japan, major car manufacturing nations, have abandoned Nuclear and they're going to struggle to make up that deficit as it is, let alone with the furious energy demands than Hydrogen requires.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Detroit-Hammbach is an entirely retooled factory and still ramping up production.

There are several reasons it's not selling in huge numbers yet and none of them are because nobody wants one.

1) Production hasn't been scaled up yet
2) They've not advertised the thing in any great way yet - every single initial purchase has been word of mouth, essentially
3) It's a new product in a niche market full of early adopters. Since when has any product in such a market destroyed the sales charts?
4) It's only gone on sale in what, 15 states?
5) Most people haven't even come into contact with one - there need to be more on the road in order for people to figure out what they're like. It's a really green market (no pun intended) and essentially one that very few people properly know about. It's no surprise that a great many Volt buyers were previously Prius owners - they're the people familiar with the technology.

It's not that GM can't shift them or that they're producing to order - it's mass production, just building slowly.

The Nissan LEAF is exactly the same in that respect. Not many have been sold, but then not many have been made either.

The Nissan Leaf is outselling the Volt substantially. Considering the trade shows, magazine ads, product placement, and all the airtime the Volt has gotten on the news...there's plenty of awareness. The only advertising that it's lacking is the typical "Sunday-Super-Sale! 0% down! No Credit? No problem!"

If someone in Georgia wants a Volt, they can get one with a dealer transfer. There's Volts in Chicago sitting on showroom floors...but "they are not sold in Illinois yet!" Bull....

The production numbers are not up b/c they can't move them. If these cars were in such demand, dealers would not transfer them across state borders. Instead, the over supply is being distributed throughout the country via the dealer network.

If Volt production increases, and you know it's going to, you'll see dozens of these things rotting on dealer lots. It's priced above a BMW 3-series. GM will have to offer employee pricing, 0% financing, cash back rebates in addition to federal and local subsidies to sell the damn things. They're too expensive.

At $19,000, it's probably a good car. At $44,000, it's a pile of ****.

 

[niky]

We'll know for sure now that production is scaling up.

The problem, as always, is price. GM is always late to the party at twice the cost. That's what killed the EV1 (price), that's what hobbles the Volt (price).

Nissan pulled a neat trick by making the Leaf tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than it really should be... they've undercut GM, and they've undercut a whole lot of other EV "manufacturers" with the Leaf pricing. This has virtually killed small-time startups like CODA who were offering much cruder EVs at a much higher price point. At the start of this EV craze, I cringed every time I saw a new start-up... recognizing them as nothing more than outdated Chinese clones stuffed with electric motors... (CODA, ZAP, Electrovaya).

Having actually driven the Chinese gasoline version of the ZAP Xebra, I was aghast that anyone would spend nearly $20k on one converted to an electric... especially since the base version was more like $3k with a scooter motor... putting the shell price at closer to $2-$2.5k. Hell... from my understanding, at the time, you could buy the Chinese electric version for under $4k...

GM got it right with the Volt on the technical side. Charge-depletion is an ideal system for range-extended hybrids. But I can't help but feel that they're leaving a lot of efficiency on the table with the 1.4 liter engine, which is bringing down range-extension MPG.

 

[homeforsummer]

The Nissan Leaf is outselling the Volt substantially.

The Leaf is still selling in small numbers, though. Again, niche product. From a niche product point of view it's a good yardstick, but I wouldn't say two cars selling in four-figure numbers are really a good indicator of future sales.

At $19,000, it's probably a good car. At $44,000, it's a pile of ****.

Can I assume you've not even sat in one, let alone driven one?

$44k is expensive. $19k would be vastly undervaluing both the technology and the quality of the car. It's a good car to drive, and it's great using the EV performance knowing there's a backup ready and waiting for when they run out.

Around $30k would be about right - i.e. Leaf priced, but as Niky says, Nissan is keeping the value of the Leaf artificially low.

The fact of the matter is, at the moment any form of EV is expensive, and none of them are going to sell in great numbers. The more they do sell, the more likely they are to expand the technology into new markets. GM is already doing that, as they're going to use the Volt drivetrain in a Cadillac coupe, estimated at around $50k.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Can I assume you've not even sat in one, let alone driven one?

$44k is expensive. $19k would be vastly undervaluing both the technology and the quality of the car. It's a good car to drive, and it's great using the EV performance knowing there's a backup ready and waiting for when they run out.

It's a $44,000 Daewoo w/a trick hybrid drivetrain. The problem with buying something for its technology is that technology can advance so fast, you're stuck with something obsolete & something with little value.

While you can nit pick about whether or not I have driven one, the point of the matter is no one has any ownership history with these things as their primary car. Same goes for the Leaf. The typical EV/Volt buyer uses that car as their local run-around car and have 2-3 other vehicles in their driveway.

Around $30k would be about right - i.e. Leaf priced, but as Niky says, Nissan is keeping the value of the Leaf artificially low.

$30,000 is probably what it'd take to move those thing en masse. That's still a lot of coin for someone to hand over just to save a few $$$ at the gas pump. No way these things take off, even at that price. The economy is in the toilet and when it picks up again, gas prices will probably fall unless those are artificially inflated in order to sway the market. But that just drives prices up on everything else and we're in another mess.

The fact of the matter is, at the moment any form of EV is expensive, and none of them are going to sell in great numbers. The more they do sell, the more likely they are to expand the technology into new markets. GM is already doing that, as they're going to use the Volt drivetrain in a Cadillac coupe, estimated at around $50k.

Great.

GM is back in the sub-prime loans business with 2 financial entities, they're over producing and piling up inventory, and now they'll be badge engineering a heavily subsidized product in hopes no one will notice that's it's really a Daewoo Lacetti w/a hybrid drivetrain. That's just wonderful.

Why did this company get bailed out again?

 

[homeforsummer]

While you can nit pick about whether or not I have driven one, the point of the matter is no one has any ownership history with these things as their primary car. Same goes for the Leaf. The typical EV/Volt buyer uses that car as their local run-around car and have 2-3 other vehicles in their driveway.

The difference is, driving one is a good way of telling that it's not just a $40k Daewoo, even if the platform is distantly related to one.

Great.

GM is back in the sub-prime loans business with 2 financial entities, they're over producing and piling up inventory, and now they'll be badge engineering a heavily subsidized product in hopes no one will notice that's it's really a Daewoo Lacetti w/a hybrid drivetrain. That's just wonderful.

Why did this company get bailed out again?

I'm not here to debate the politics of the company. Whether GM was bailed out or not is of little consequence to me. They've already sunk the only brand I actually cared about which was Saab, and the Volt is one of about three cars across GM's entire empire that has any interest for me whatsoever (the Camaro and Corvette are the other two).

I'm just here to say that expensive or not, it's a good car and I don't believe that the slow sales are to do with lack of interest, they're to do with lack of awareness and lack of units actually out there to buy.

 

[niky]

Shrugging the Cruze/Volt platform off as "just a Daewoo" vastly underestimates the amount of engineering and the complete reversal this platform represents for TAFKAD (the automaker formerly known as Daewoo... now GMDAT).

From interior materials to chassis engineering to suspension tuning, they dumped a compact class platform that was ten years out of date and created a new one that can actually go toe-to-toe with the likes of VAG and Ford Europe.

It's an amazing change, moreso if you consider the car's predecessor was the absolutely craptastic Nubira/Optra/Forenza... which I had the displeasure of driving once or twice... that car drove and rode like a sack of bricks, and the steering felt like a tiller attached to a rubber rudder. Absolutely dreadful. And the engines were worse. Unless you got the 2.0 diesel, they drank fuel faster than they actually accelerated. The only thing that saved it from being Chinese-Car dreadful was an interior that was actually... nice.

The Cruze, on the other hand, has an interior that shames the competition in terms of material quality, design and space. It has an incredibly supple yet capable suspension, steers almost as well as a European Ford, and is quieter, calmer and more stable at speed. It also performs pretty well on the racetrack, though this will, of course, depend on the exact variant and regional suspension tuning.

The only real problem with the Cruze is the pathetic drivetrain and powertrain... but that's not a problem with the Volt.

---

If you want a truly dreadful Chevwoo nowadays, you'll have to get an Aveo... which Chevrolet should kill with fire.

 

[Cale]

Shrugging the Cruze/Volt platform off as "just a Daewoo" vastly underestimates the amount of engineering and the complete reversal this platform represents for TAFKAD (the automaker formerly known as Daewoo... now GMDAT).

From interior materials to chassis engineering to suspension tuning, they dumped a compact class platform that was ten years out of date and created a new one that can actually go toe-to-toe with the likes of VAG and Ford Europe.

It's an amazing change, moreso if you consider the car's predecessor was the absolutely craptastic Nubira/Optra/Forenza... which I had the displeasure of driving once or twice... that car drove and rode like a sack of bricks, and the steering felt like a tiller attached to a rubber rudder. Absolutely dreadful. And the engines were worse. Unless you got the 2.0 diesel, they drank fuel faster than they actually accelerated. The only thing that saved it from being Chinese-Car dreadful was an interior that was actually... nice.

The Cruze, on the other hand, has an interior that shames the competition in terms of material quality, design and space. It has an incredibly supple yet capable suspension, steers almost as well as a European Ford, and is quieter, calmer and more stable at speed. It also performs pretty well on the racetrack, though this will, of course, depend on the exact variant and regional suspension tuning.

The only real problem with the Cruze is the pathetic drivetrain and powertrain... but that's not a problem with the Volt.

---

If you want a truly dreadful Chevwoo nowadays, you'll have to get an Aveo... which Chevrolet should kill with fire.

The Aveo is dead, and it's replacement looks to be highly competitive if not class leading. (At least in North America, where we lack many of it's competitors)

*Edit: In some markets it's still called the Aveo, but it's the Sonic in most and a completely new car.

 

[Northstar]

Isn't the Sonic just a 2011 Aveo with a new face?

Side-Note: Was funny watching it as the pace car in the Cup race today.

 

[rocko100]

Yes, it was so puny next to the NASCARS

 

[Cale]

Isn't the Sonic just a 2011 Aveo with a new face?

Side-Note: Was funny watching it as the pace car in the Cup race today.

No, all new car.

But yeah it looked so small.

 

[niky]

I hope it is all new. The Cruze, you can't draw any comparision between that and the previous Lacetti... perhaps there's some Astra underneath... but in the Spark, for which there is no Opel counterpart, you can see some similarity with the Matiz, seat size, general layout... it's like a widened Matiz with a much better shell. Which isn't too bad, as the Matiz was the one Daewoo product that wasn't incredibly bad... just uncompetitive by the end of its long life.

The Sonic, I can still see some similarities with the Aveo... but I hope they at least changed that damned engine...

 

[YSSMAN]

The Sonic in the United States is built just outside of Detroit, actually not too far away from where Joe lives. As I recall, the standard car starts under $14K, and packs the pretty okay 1.8L I4 with 138 BHP. The higher trim cars get the 1.4T from the Cruze, with the same 138 BHP. Even better news? All of them can come equipped with a six speed manual. The early tests of the prototype cars seemed to indicate that they drive pretty well, about as good as the Fiesta, if anything a little more soft. I found the middle-ground the Fiesta tries to saddle to be a little polarizing, so I'm interested to see how the Chevrolet goes.

RE: The Cadillac ELR

This is probably going to be the best way to get the Voltec powertrain out into more vehicles in a more reasonable way. The interesting thing will be to see how GM prices the Cadillac, and if that means the Volt gets to come down in price a bit. GM still needs to get the powertrain in one other vehicle, and I still feel like the Orlando is the prime candidate to get it.

 

[homeforsummer]

RE: The Cadillac ELR

This is probably going to be the best way to get the Voltec powertrain out into more vehicles in a more reasonable way. The interesting thing will be to see how GM prices the Cadillac, and if that means the Volt gets to come down in price a bit. GM still needs to get the powertrain in one other vehicle, and I still feel like the Orlando is the prime candidate to get it.

GM has been hinting that the Voltec powertrain is going into some form of crossover or minivan for a while now. If they can expand the appeal of the powertrain then that's a very good thing. The more of them they make, the lower the price can be.

Will be interesting seeing how the Ampera does in Europe. It's a nicer looking car, for one, but in terms of pure economy it has much stronger rivals over here with all the diesels knocking about. Obviously they're not as clean and not as effective around town, but price again plays a factor.

 

[Robin]

The Aveo is dead, and it's replacement looks to be highly competitive if not class leading. (At least in North America, where we lack many of it's competitors)

Gosh it looks so much like the Mitsubishi Colt from the front.

 

[Dan_]

Will be interesting seeing how the Ampera does in Europe. It's a nicer looking car, for one, but in terms of pure economy it has much stronger rivals over here with all the diesels knocking about. Obviously they're not as clean and not as effective around town, but price again plays a factor.

Not to mention that diesels of today are fairly capable on a motorway, silent and with huge autonomy, the Volt just isn't made for that.

Quick question: Given the option of an Ampera and let's say an A4 3.0 TDI, retailing for approximately 30-34k£ is on the very same price league as the Ampera ( from what I've been told ). It's AWD, much bigger, quite economical, more practical, much more powerful and let's face it: It's an Audi, not an Opel or Vauxhall. It'll be hard to sell the Ampera in a market that accepts diesels as Europe does, I can't see it succeeding.

Also, for the green-minded individuals, the Leaf appears to be the best deal of the two biggest eco cars nowadays. Certainly the Volt must be a quite fantastic achievement, one that you'd expect from such a big player as GM is, however it lacks appeal in almost all areas to me. I can't see it suceeding in the short term.

 

[YSSMAN]

It'll be hard to sell the Ampera in a market that accepts diesels as Europe does, I can't see it succeeding.

That will depend greatly on the market we're talking about, and the kind of marketing GM decides to do with the car. The Volt had a pretty substantial initial push in the marketing department, but I haven't heard much about the car since most of the major sporting seasons wrapped up. Similarly, most of the people who were dying to have one got their Volt. Still, I don't see them sitting around at any dealers around here. They show up, and they're gone in a day or two.

 

[Joey D]

The Sonic in the United States is built just outside of Detroit, actually not too far away from where Joe lives.

I can actually see the plant from my house funny enough.