Civic Sadness

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barryl85
Does not make it fact at all! still your opinion probably shared with more FWD haters,
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I seriously doubt that the Speed World Challenge stewards and the SCCA Competition Board are "FWD haters". The rules of the real Speed World Challenge are very carefully written in order to provide the closest possible road racing competition. In fact, successful cars are given additional ballast weight to slow them down in order to keep the field close and the competition fierce.

In keeping with that idea, in most cases, the allowed base weight for FWD cars is lower than that for RWD cars, and RWD cars usually get more restricted power as well. This is FACT, not the opinion of some "FWD haters". The stewards needed to lighten the load of FWD cars and restrict the power of RWD cars (in general) in order to make them equal. Again, this is not opinion. This is what they had to do to bring the laptimes in line.

Look. Stop being a fanboy and learn a little. I drive a FWD Neon ACR every day. The ACR is specifically designed for amateur road racing, much like the ITR. It's the cheaper, American equivalent. I know many amateur racers. At the Runoffs every year, the FWD drivers pray for rain in order to neutralize the RWD cars advantage.

I've never said that FWD cars are bad cars. But pound for pound and horsepower per horsepower, the RWD platform will beat the FWD platform.
 
svtsnake
duke drives a fwd car. so get off the fwd high horse. 💡
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doesnt matter if he does, the point i am tryin to get accross is that FWD can be sports cars, High horse? just point proving. 👍
 
As far as im concerned, the only fwd hondas that can even be close to a sports car are the integra type r and the civic type r...but i still wouldn't call them sports cars. Since we are talking civics, then i would have to say none of them are sports cars..the type r is certainly close but anything less (sir, si, vtir,vti etc) are just good performing FWDs. A ZR Mirage Mivec isn't considered a sports car yet it is basically the same as a type r civic in almost all aspects
 
The only Honda's that deserve to be in this game as the S2000, NSX, and Integra Type-R in my opinion. nismo4life can tell you thats allot for me to say the ITR should go in by the way, as I HATE FF vehicles.
 
But now it's my turn - the CRX Si (2 gen) is one of the best autocross cars ever built. Light as a popcorn fart and with enough power to move it, the little thing can still embarrass a lot of more expensive cars. Not all FWD cars are bad.
 
Dark-Hawk
The only Honda's that deserve to be in this game as the S2000, NSX, and Integra Type-R in my opinion. nismo4life can tell you thats allot for me to say the ITR should go in by the way, as I HATE FF vehicles.
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Nah, I'd like those 3, but I think the Honda Accord Euro R should stay as well. But how about some of those Acura versions? TSX, etc...
My 2 cents.
 
Duke
I seriously doubt that the Speed World Challenge stewards and the SCCA Competition Board are "FWD haters". The rules of the real Speed World Challenge are very carefully written in order to provide the closest possible road racing competition. In fact, successful cars are given additional ballast weight to slow them down in order to keep the field close and the competition fierce.

In keeping with that idea, in most cases, the allowed base weight for FWD cars is lower than that for RWD cars, and RWD cars usually get more restricted power as well. This is FACT, not the opinion of some "FWD haters". The stewards needed to lighten the load of FWD cars and restrict the power of RWD cars (in general) in order to make them equal. Again, this is not opinion. This is what they had to do to bring the laptimes in line.

Look. Stop being a fanboy and learn a little. I drive a FWD Neon ACR every day. The ACR is specifically designed for amateur road racing, much like the ITR. It's the cheaper, American equivalent. I know many amateur racers. At the Runoffs every year, the FWD drivers pray for rain in order to neutralize the RWD cars advantage.

I've never said that FWD cars are bad cars. But pound for pound and horsepower per horsepower, the RWD platform will beat the FWD platform.
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Kinda hard sitting on this fence, eh? :dopey:

I kinda agree. As much as I love driving FF cars, and as biased as I am towards sport compacts... NOTHING can compare to a RWD car on track... in fact, in a pound for pound comparison, not even the vaunted AWD sports cars can match RWD cars, as long as the track is DRY.

But I still disagree with all those haters who keep seeming to find this thread... FF'ers do make great sports cars.

Duke
But now it's my turn - the CRX Si (2 gen) is one of the best autocross cars ever built. Light as a popcorn fart and with enough power to move it, the little thing can still embarrass a lot of more expensive cars. Not all FWD cars are bad.
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Like this... I remember the story of a compatriot (a car magazine writer) who used to live in the continental US. He used to drive a first-gen Golf GTi. Story is, some punks in a Camaro Z-car threw a beer can at his car, pissing him off so much that he ran them down in his Golf. Now these punks had no idea who this crazy old Asian was, so they ran... or tried to. While the Camaro was all squealing tires and roaring pipes, the Golf just pulled closer and closer, till he finally overtook the muscle car and cut them off... he pointed in their direction, and in the dark, they thought he had a gun, so they skedaddled.

His younger sister was in the passenger seat, and had never seen him drive a car in anger. She looked up at him, a strange expression on her face, and said "I thought Camaro's were supposed to be fast?"... :lol:

But then, not all RWD cars are boats, and a lot of RWDs today are dynamic enough to leave FFers' in their dust. But you (referring to other guys here) CAN'T say they're all crap. People drive these cars in real-life. They find them fun, even if some others don't. So hence, they belong.
 
wow, theres enough peoples two cents in here to retire on.

I must therefore give some back, now i dont want to be greedy. The honda civics where never designed to be sports cars, merely competitive. As for FF sports cars, there are FF sports cars, but FR and AWD have proven to be superior. It seems it has alot to do with balance, and i dont think theyre will ever be a configuration that a FF car can be set up to, so it handles more balanced. Until this magic formula is found, FR and AWD will continue to dominate. hmm dominate.. strong word.... *thinks*... how about, give slight advantages?.

yeah's that will do fine.

~Sp33~
 
Duke
Look. Stop being a fanboy and learn a little. I drive a FWD Neon ACR every day. The ACR is specifically designed for amateur road racing, much like the ITR. It's the cheaper, American equivalent. I know many amateur racers. At the Runoffs every year, the FWD drivers pray for rain in order to neutralize the RWD cars advantage.

I've never said that FWD cars are bad cars. But pound for pound and horsepower per horsepower, the RWD platform will beat the FWD platform.
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Duke i appreciate your opinion - but i didnt see any need to call 'fanboy' into this, i know i am entitled to my opinion and i agree i am all towards Honda but we were discussing;

Duke
it is a little hard to put 'FWD' and 'sports car' into the same sentence
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If i had the choice (or should i say cash) then no i wouldnt drive an FWD, i would have 4WD or RWD - im no "fanboy" of FWD just disagreeing that "FWD cars cant be sports cars because us haters hate them" :dopey:
 
barryl85
Does not make it fact at all! still your opinion probably shared with more FWD haters,
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barryl85
Duke i appreciate your opinion - but i didnt see any need to call 'fanboy' into this...

... just disagreeing that "FWD cars cant be sports cars because us haters hate them" :dopey:
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With all due respect, as soon as somebody uses the word "haters", they automatically become a fanboy.
 
~Sp33~
This is were i was trying to lead with this thread... I think what gran turismo was aiming at was to show how you could take your car, watever car it was and exploit its potential to the best of its ability. The fun is in seeing how far you can push your everyday runabout.

People who thrive on seeing ricers, heavily modified cars and super mobil's miss the point of gran turismo, you can ick up any race game of the shelf today and race supercars but it takes a real game to include the affordable cars. I also think that having cars that are affordable boosts the games popularity mainly because people are able to easily relate to them. Whether they own one themselves or kow of someone who owns one... Being such a 'real driving simulator' as it claims, it also provides a cheap way for car owners to experience thier ride's potentials.

ricers :yuck: sedans 👍

p.s thanks for the people who brought new debates to this thread. i was starting to get worried, the first few people just thought it was a chance to bag out hondas. Honda's rock ass...lol :sly:
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QFT. see sig
 
haha, you musta been fang'in...lol

and for duke, are you not feelin well?.. you usually dont specify with criticism that directly @_@, not that im complaining, it just seems very different to your normal opinions.

Welcome, changed Duke 👍 :lol:

~Sp33~
 
Duke
With all due respect, as soon as somebody uses the word "haters", they automatically become a fanboy.
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If you actually take time to read my posts you will see;

1. I am a honda lover - not fanboy (i dont go around saying "oh Honda is the best - better than your car"

2. We were talking about FWD cars not honda and i have stated in an earlier post i would rather have a RWD or 4WD car.

IMO - FWD can be sports cars

Your opinion is different and i have accepted the fact that you dont believe they can be classed as sports cars.

*Fanboy im not, Agree to disagree, we must*- (Master Yoda Talk)
 
lol.. *grabs some popcorn.. enjoys the show*.. oh please by all means. dont agree to disagree yet, im enjoying myself~!!1one!
 
barryl85
Well i think we should - i dont want to upset Duke - After all he is an Admin
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That won't be a problem. I'm great at separating my 'professional' self from my personal opinions.

And just for the record, I also own the car in ~sp33~'s avatar - a FWD Honda product.
 
*druel*...you actually.. i mean realy... own one?.. how do i get that emoticon that bows down?...hmm...well that should be inserted.....Duke you rock w00t. What a great car it is. Muh second fav behind the NSX.
 
Duke
That won't be a problem. I'm great at separating my 'professional' self from my personal opinions.

And just for the record, I also own the car in ~sp33~'s avatar - a FWD Honda product.
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Cool is it the Euro-R? Whats the difference with that and the Accord Type-R? apart from the huge wing? i have wondered this for a long time!

Or is it the newer model in his avatar which is just the euro?
 
Sorry to say I'm in US, so it's an Acura TSX rather than a Euro-R. But it shares nearly everything with the Euro-R. Not quite as stiff and edgy, and it has a 2.4l i-vtec engine instead of the high-strung 2.0 in the Euro-R. But overall it's a hoot to drive and handles great for a FWD car.
 
Duke
Sorry to say I'm in US, so it's an Acura TSX rather than a Euro-R. But it shares nearly everything with the Euro-R. Not quite as stiff and edgy, and it has a 2.4l i-vtec engine instead of the high-strung 2.0 in the Euro-R. But overall it's a hoot to drive and handles great for a FWD car.
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Ah, sorry for the late reply, so do u consider it a sports car? (just kidding Duke) anyway nice ride! - have you ever seen the Type-R model? it has the 2.4litre as well!! its in my sig anyway if you havent! 👍
 
barryl85
Cool is it the Euro-R? Whats the difference with that and the Accord Type-R? apart from the huge wing? i have wondered this for a long time!

Or is it the newer model in his avatar which is just the euro?
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I dont know where your from barry, but in AUS we get two different versions of the accord, the Seppo and Euro. Euro 👍 Seppo 👎 . Ofcourse its not a bad car, it won best value luxury car under 50k but it looks drab and rather boring. Mind you i dont think they brought a type r version of the seppo....

My avatar is the current model Euro type-R, although AUS doesnt get the Type_R version quite yet.. *tears*
 
Duke
Sorry to say I'm in US, so it's an Acura TSX rather than a Euro-R. But it shares nearly everything with the Euro-R. Not quite as stiff and edgy, and it has a 2.4l i-vtec engine instead of the high-strung 2.0 in the Euro-R. But overall it's a hoot to drive and handles great for a FWD car.
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Awesome Duke.

The TSX is incredible car, and due to Acura being the luxury brand of Honda, my guess is that it might be more comfortable than a Euro or any Accord for that matter. However, I sort of like the TL.

BTW, Duke, what model out of the 4 is it?
 
According to Wikipedia.org:
A sports car is a type of automobile designed for sporting performance. While opinions differ as to the exact definition, most sports cars have two seats and two doors, and are designed to excel at a combination of acceleration, top speed, braking, and maneuverability. Great emphasis is often placed on handling—the ability of the car to remain in the control of the driver under challenging conditions such as when the car's tires begin to lose their grip on corners.

A car may be sporting without being a sports car. Performance modifications of regular cars, such as muscle cars, hot hatches and the like do not generally fall in the pure sports car territory.

A large, powerful engine is not required; many of the early British sports cars lacked a powerful engine and did not accelerate as quickly as, say, muscle cars, but were known for having exceptional handling characteristics due to their combination of light weight, carefully engineered/balanced chassis and innovative suspension designs. Lotus is often cited as an example of this approach. On tight, twisting roads, such a car has higher effective performance than a heavier, more powerful car with less cornering ability.

In many situations, the term "sports car" is used to refer to any car with more power or performance than is typical for cars in general. Often vehicles in the muscle car, performance sedan/saloon or grand tourer (GT) category are referred to as sports cars even though they tend to lack the light weight and excellent handling characteristics of a true sports car.


If we were to accept this definition of a sports car, a Honda Civic can be sporty and may not be a "true" sports car, but it can be considered a sports car. In my humble opinion, the most important aspect to a sports car is maneuverability and cornering; massive HP is not a requirement to be a sports car. My tuned 240 HP 1991 Toyota MR2 Turbo is an MR so it should have pretty good weight distribution and pretty good handling. For me, driving on twisty roads in the San Bernardino and Los Angeles mountains is more thrilling than going super fast in a straightaway scenario, although my MR2 accelerates pretty fast.

For me, I would not want a "sports car" that sacrifices maneuverability and handling for a few more HP.
 
Touche! Defining a sports car is reeeeally broad, divided in to sub-categories: Sports Sedan, Sport Coupe, Sport Cabrio, Super Car, Concept car...
 

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