Clean driving rewarded

[Sven Jurgens]

I'm normally in the top 6 during a race and have ZERO issues with contact, but I've had some races where I've been 'mid pack' or even at the back after making a mistake... and here I've had few issues. But I treat everyone on the track with respect - I don't try to force suicidal passes even when I know I'm 2s a lap faster than the person in front for example, and I find other drivers treat me with respect for the most part too.

Saying SRS divers know how to 'game' the penalty system is daft.

I've done 440 online races and it definitely happens. I captured one incident from an AS driver

One bump can be a mistake, 2 bumps perhaps an incorrect reflex, 3 bumps sending me into the wall, no doubt.

I've had plenty of incidents like that, slowly working me off the road into the wall before the finish, or making contact in a corner and accelerating instead of correcting. Perhaps you have been lucky not to drive during times these people are on, or are driving up front below your DR rating. I doesn't happen that often luckily yet it's easy to ruin someone's race without getting penalized for it. Ofcourse why bother being subtle when a single SR down doesn't mean anything. Deliberate hard bumps outrank the subtle ones 20:1 Ofcourse if PD were to penalize the big contacts more you will see a lot more of this.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I've done 440 online races and it definitely happens. I captured one incident from an AS driver

One bump can be a mistake, 2 bumps perhaps an incorrect reflex, 3 bumps sending me into the wall, no doubt.

I've had plenty of incidents like that, slowly working me off the road into the wall before the finish, or making contact in a corner and accelerating instead of correcting. Perhaps you have been lucky not to drive during times these people are on, or are driving up front below your DR rating. I doesn't happen that often luckily yet it's easy to ruin someone's race without getting penalized for it. Ofcourse why bother being subtle when a single SR down doesn't mean anything. Deliberate hard bumps outrank the subtle ones 20:1 Ofcourse if PD were to penalize the big contacts more you will see a lot more of this.

A drivers ranking does not depict his driving style and whether he is above dirty tactics or not. Drivers of every ranking both DR and SR are capable of the behavior you show in the video.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I have 200 races in sport mode, all at SR S.

I think one of the biggest mistakes the game makes is by putting to much emphasis on a single hot lapping style of qualifying for both lobby matching and grid placement.

One observation I have made repeatably is the number of racers that are placed in a race and it is so obvious that they cannot maintain over more than the occasional perfect lap the pace required to even remain on course during the race much less race in a controlled manner within a pack of cars.

I usually try to turn in a qualifying time that's pace closely resembles the best laps to where I can turn consistently lap after lap. That way when I am placed in a race I feel confident that I can run the overall pace that will be within that races level.



Some racers just race where that seems to be their style of racing and all ranks will learn what the game will allow them to possibly get away with. Contact needs unfortunately to penalize both the aggressor and victim to eliminate the behavior described.
Same with drivers cutting corners early in a race to game a time advantage over their opponents, they know on some circuits they can scrub off the penalty over race distance without even slowing down.
Why I think all penalties should be assessed post race period.

It's a problem both ways though. I try not to push qualifying until I run better laps during the race so I know I can maintain that position. Yet then I'm consistently placed behind people that are slower than me and for some reason half the time it's someone with 3 bars right in front of me. So annoying to overtake a laggy car.
Ofcourse when I put in a really good qualifying time I have the chance to start up front and not get bothered once the people behind me start to hinder each other. Yet start with a qualifying time I can't maintain in the middle of the pack and I'm the one holding people up and inviting bad passes.

I guess the sportmanship thing to do is to start behind the slower players with a qualifying time that matches my general pace. Then if they're laggy, just wait my time until they go off road or keep my position and be satisfied with driving safely.


Anyway first thing that needs to be done is to either make time penalties permanent, or immediately ghost the car and cut engine power until the penalty is gone. Enough of cutting the first corner on Interlagos. It's also becoming very common that people brake before the finish to lose their penalty, preferably in front of you. Or in the last corner swerving to take up all space going slow, if they couldn't get rid of it during the race.

 

[Stotty]

A drivers ranking does not depict his driving style and whether he is above dirty tactics or not. Drivers of every ranking both DR and SR are capable of the behavior you show in the video.

This.

Again, my point was in relation to comments that specifically identified SRS drivers as being able to somehow game the penalty system.

It wasn't saying SRS drivers are 100% clean - DR ranking has a massive influence on this as well.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

A drivers ranking does not depict his driving style and whether he is above dirty tactics or not. Drivers of every ranking both DR and SR are capable of the behavior you show in the video.

Indeed, and that's a problem with the SR system. The fact that it doesn't even detect that puts a large question mark on it's usefulness. Perhaps a no contact rule in SR.S could help. Or the server should look at steering inputs involved, steer into contact or away from contact makes all the difference.

 

[Mr616]

I agree with what you're saying. But the OP said nothing about driving around the back of the pack to increase his SR rating. He simply said he was focusing on racing cleaner. I've never raced him, so I can't say he's doing that or not. But we can't just assume this is the case. Which is what cfft555 did immediately.

I was quoting Loopdreams who didn't get the jist of cfft55s post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just trying to clarify what point I thought cfft555 was making.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

This.

Again, my point was in relation to comments that specifically identified SRS drivers as being able to somehow game the penalty system.

It wasn't saying SRS drivers are 100% clean - DR ranking has a massive influence on this as well.

Well higher DR players are more crafty This is a lower skilled player's attempt

Perhaps him being a lap behind saved me.

SRS drivers are definitely not 100% clean. It has some influence as 2/3rds of the races I do in SR.S are generally clean. I've also had strings of many bad races. Perhaps it's better to do something else when a daily race is 'poisoned' until everyone has calmed down.. Matchmaking keeps putting me with the same people so chances are it's just a repeat of the last race.

 

[LBDN123]

I was on pole in a race yesterday and the first corner I got hit from behind and the race over, so who you get out on the track is luck and it does not matter where you start the race.

Initial thoughts

* That was unfortunate, that must have been annoying
* Was it accidental or malicious
* Did you brake so much earlier than would be reasonably expected and thus contributed to the incident?

 

[LBDN123]

Yes it is. Driving at the back in an empty racetrack is not achieving anything. They drive round at the back of the pack, get their SR:S then start trying properly against other SR:S players, in amongst packs of cars without knowing how to behave (because your S rating has come from trundling round at the back of the pack) and all of a sudden THEY are the problem.

I mentioned this in the daily race thread. It is gaming the system, and it is a problem IMO.

I cant help but think then that if said person "gaming the system" to race SR:S players continually kept being caught up in accidents in SR:S races then eventually they would stop bothering to "game the system" as they would think it makes no difference as all drivers at all levels were useless without realizing they themselves are the problem so in theory your problem goes away ....

I think people are over thinking this SR thing too much.

 

[Mr616]

I cant help but think then that if said person "gaming the system" to race SR:S players continually kept being caught up in accidents in SR:S races then eventually they would stop bothering to "game the system" as they would think it makes no difference as all drivers at all levels were useless without realizing they themselves are the problem so in theory your problem goes away ....

I think people are over thinking this SR thing too much.

I struggle to work peoples mentality out these days, so I can't help you on that. A majority of my races are fantastic with the odd hiccup, but that's racing. Most are mistakes I believe, but some incidents are pre meditated.

People do read to much into the DR SR I agree. I don't try to be anything DR or SR related. I race as clean as I can, at my pace. I try to improve but not when racing in a live race. I'll do that in qually or time trial. Whatever my stats are the are and I seem to have settled at very high DR:B (i get smoked by A and S when matched with them) but my SR is nearly always S apart from the odd blip. I treat people online like I would hope to be treated. I overtake like I hope to be overtaken. If I feel a move was dirty, or I made contact which I wasn't happy with, I give the position back.

Any time stats are added for public viewing in an online game, be it SR/DR in GTS or kill death ratios in FPS, people always try to get to the highest they can, doing the least possible. They don't just play, and let it pan out. They want to show THEY are the best, when in fact, they are far from it and are deluding themselves (in some, not all cases) and of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I struggle to work peoples mentality out these days, so I can't help you on that. A majority of my races are fantastic with the odd hiccup, but that's racing. Most are mistakes I believe, but some incidents are pre meditated.

People do read to much into the DR SR I agree. I don't try to be anything DR or SR related. I race as clean as I can, at my pace. I try to improve but not when racing in a live race. I'll do that in qually or time trial. Whatever my stats are the are and I seem to have settled at very high DR:B (i get smoked by A and S when matched with them) but my SR is nearly always S apart from the odd blip. I treat people online like I would hope to be treated. I overtake like I hope to be overtaken. If I feel a move was dirty, or I made contact which I wasn't happy with, I give the position back.

Any time stats are added for public viewing in an online game, be it SR/DR in GTS or kill death ratios in FPS, people always try to get to the highest they can, doing the least possible. They don't just play, and let it pan out. They want to show THEY are the best, when in fact, they are far from it and are deluding themselves (in some, not all cases) and of course, that's just my opinion.

I tend to race the same hence my DR is all over the place depending on what the daily races bring. I'm good on some tracks, others I feel like my gas pedal is messed with. I rather concede a position than put myself in a spot I'm not 100% sure of I can overtake safely and hold back when I do eventually make a mistake or can't hold my line.

Games have always bred the perception that only winning counts. In the early days you only had a few tracks and leagues and finishing the race was already seen as an achievement, time extend! Currently only gold counts with many easy challenges to stroke your ego. Then you get online and are met with actual competition. Online achievements are still based on number of wins, pole positions (which is just as much luck of the draw) and fastest laps (draft well behind first). The rating system reflecting grades doesn't help either. Why not call it clean, competitive, aggressive instead of E to S. As for DR, it's not XP yet it does present itself that way.

Perhaps DR should not be as fluid as it is now and take into account your abilities of all the races you have done. Perhaps measure it per track so you start out low again on a new track. Since it uploads everything to the server it might as well take your track experience times in account as a seed. Some of the rises and falls are quite dramatic atm, trend per track measurements over the last 10 races on that track would work better.

Also lowering DR for quitting a race is not a punishment and only messes up the system. Just make it so you can't enter a new race for half an hour, next time an hour etc. Reset daily. That way you can quit when something comes up and you have to go while maintaining your DR, yet can't quickly drop your DR for easy pole positions in the lower ranks. Plus quitting to preserve your DR will only lock you out of more races.

 

[kalakanto]

I want to see SR system with more levels to gategorize racers, more rewarding of clean races/laps maybe, more punishing of bad behaviour on track. It would be nice some day race with opponets who have same thoughts of driving etiquette as me: you just don't get in to crashes in race, use brakes even it slowes you, select your line in brakezones so that you won't hit others, go for door if it's open but if it's half close do it on next lap or so but don't ruin others race.

I had from beginning raced in SR S, about 100 races, and as others mentioned too, SR S is not guarantee of clean race. I think it's too easy to achieve that S and even if you drop down to A it's just one or couple of races and you are back on S with your dirty moves!

 

[VFOURMAX1]

t would be nice some day race with opponets who have same thoughts of driving etiquette as me:

In 200 sport races I have awesome races, terrible races and some with a bit of both mixed in.
I have learned to avoid certain tracks online like the plague and to only race online on tracks I have really learned and understand with a car that I have driven enough to be comfortable how it will respond to different situations you find yourself facing in a race.
I also now mostly avoid the shorter less than 10 lap races as it seems the need for urgency brings out the worst and cancels any patience a racer may have trying to gain positions.

The worse part is that those awesome races make you like a crack addict and keep coming back looking for those feelings and experiences again!

 

[CBH]

Initial thoughts

* That was unfortunate, that must have been annoying
* Was it accidental or malicious
* Did you brake so much earlier than would be reasonably expected and thus contributed to the incident?

It was annoying, if he wanted to go around me, instead of hitting me in the corner, he should do the pass down the straight. It was not accidental, the driver just wanted to get me out of the way.
Answer to you question, no I did not brake much earlier, he just wanted to lead the race at the first corner with no manners what so ever.

 

[Cfft555]

I was quoting Loopdreams who didn't get the jist of cfft55s post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was just trying to clarify what point I thought cfft555 was making.

Thanks. Yes I assumed the OP was gaming the system by driving slower than what he was capable of, mainly because it seems to be a common occurrence from what I have seen and the number of posts from people doing it. If that's not the case then I apologise.

Every rank will have good and bad drivers if you are given the option to artificially inflate your ranks people will always do it. IMO this shouldn't be possible.

SR gain IMO should be tied to clean racing with things like
Consistent sector & lap times - Able to consistently run at the same pace, the faster the better.
Sector gaps - Closer you are to other cars at the end of each sector the higher the gain as this will reward close clean driving. Will avoid easy gains for people leading race in clear air or racing at the back.
Clean sectors - Not going off track or hitting others
Positions gained - maxed at 3 to avoid people starting at the back and trying to just pick up easy positions

 

[Meggle]

It's a problem both ways though. I try not to push qualifying until I run better laps during the race so I know I can maintain that position. Yet then I'm consistently placed behind people that are slower than me and for some reason half the time it's someone with 3 bars right in front of me. So annoying to overtake a laggy car.
Ofcourse when I put in a really good qualifying time I have the chance to start up front and not get bothered once the people behind me start to hinder each other. Yet start with a qualifying time I can't maintain in the middle of the pack and I'm the one holding people up and inviting bad passes.

I guess the sportmanship thing to do is to start behind the slower players with a qualifying time that matches my general pace. Then if they're laggy, just wait my time until they go off road or keep my position and be satisfied with driving safely.


Anyway first thing that needs to be done is to either make time penalties permanent, or immediately ghost the car and cut engine power until the penalty is gone. Enough of cutting the first corner on Interlagos. It's also becoming very common that people brake before the finish to lose their penalty, preferably in front of you. Or in the last corner swerving to take up all space going slow, if they couldn't get rid of it during the race.

I have 3 bars all the time. I thought was my DR progress.
Is that my connection?
Can someone point towards the dummies guide?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I have 3 bars all the time. I thought was my DR progress.
Is that my connection?
Can someone point towards the dummies guide?

It's your ping time to the server depending on your connection. I drop to 3 bars as well during prime time cause cable sucks, so I rather play outside of that. I don't know where the server is, I usually have 4 or 5 bars. People from Argentina and Brazil have max 3 bars in my experience, yet also some from the states can be as low as 1 bar which results in a saw tooth pattern at every corner.

3 bars is not too bad as long as it's consistent. It does result in not seeing brake lights fast enough and sudden inset of corners as the game simply projects the car going straight until it gets the new info.

 

[Meggle]

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