Clean Standard Cars(Semi Premium Cars)

[RandomCarGuy17]

Is it really worth the effort though? Sure, the cars might give a ''sort-of-Premium'' impression at first, but the cockpit view will however still remain absolutely worthless for the vast majority of them, not to mention they'll also remain looking inferior to Premium cars no matter what.

For sure, it is a waste of time to clean up the standards at all. Which is why I said this:

Though, I still prefer if they dropped them altogether and just made premium models of the more popular standards like they started doing:

I had this mindset for a while now, for PD to simply drop the standards except for handful of the most popular ones such as the BMW M3 CSL & Toyota Supra JZA80 RZ and just have those remodeled.

 

[MXH]

For sure, it is a waste of time to clean up the standards at all. Which is why I said this:


I had this mindset for a while now, for PD to simply drop the standards except for handful of the most popular ones such as the BMW M3 CSL & Toyota Supra JZA80 RZ and just have those remodeled.

Ah, I missed that part. My bad!

Well, if someone else considers it development time being spent wisely, have a go at it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Keeping the standards will preserve GT's past.

Removing them will prioritize the future.

That's pretty much the standard/vs premium deal in a nutshell.

I'd suggest that the past is already well preserved in GT1-6 and they should be looking forward, not back. If they want to bring elements of the past forward, make it in the UI, or continuing with the Sunday Cup, Polyphony Cup etc. Without some major work on each and every standard, they are going to look terribly out of place on the PS4.

 

[Harsk100]

The standard cars must not be removed!!! Each car has its own fans.

What is in first place? The fans of the standard cars? Or the removal of standard cars?

I'm sorry, but removing standard cars would be disappointing...

 

[JKgo]

Standard cars, huh. I really don't mind them disappearing from future GT titles. Just preserve/premium-ize popular ones, and drop all the duplicates. Just imagine all the dev time eaten up while trying to up-res standard cars; the time that could've been used to improve AI, sound, bugs...whew.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Standard cars, huh. I really don't mind them disappearing from future GT titles. Just preserve/premium-ize popular ones, and drop all the duplicates. Just imagine all the dev time eaten up while trying to up-res standard cars; the time that could've been used to improve AI, sound, bugs...whew.

I don't think the car modelers are working on AI, sound, bugs etc. but the analogy still holds. Modelers spending time on farting around with standards means less new premium cars in the game. What the tradeoff is I don't know but it's definitely there.

 

[CarGamingBlog]

The standard cars must not be removed!!! Each car has its own fans.

What is in first place? The fans of the standard cars? Or the removal of standard cars?

I'm sorry, but removing standard cars would be disappointing...

I totally understand this argument, but personally I would like to see Premium quality only. I feel Polyphony need to re-establish their reputation for making a top quality brand.

 

[05XR8]

Look at GT1. It only had about 150 cars. But PD didnt count the liveries for Racing Mods. Neither did they in GT2. If we count those as they do now, there would be quadruple as many cars today if they kept those liveries. All they need is a left hand and right hand drive car for those models. The interior trim could be generic(keep it simple with leather steering wheel and black dashboard) for those models that have been duplicated.

Oh, and the arguement for different engines through the years? Remember, we could increase displacement back then too. Want a 1.8 in your MX5? Just drive on down to GTAuto. It has everything

 

[Harsk100]

Look at GT1. It only had about 150 cars. But PD didnt count the liveries for Racing Mods. Neither did they in GT2. If we count those as they do now, there would be quadruple as many cars today if they kept those liveries. All they need is a left hand and right hand drive car for those models. The interior trim could be generic(keep it simple with leather steering wheel and black dashboard) for those models that have been duplicated.

Oh, and the arguement for different engines through the years? Remember, we could increase displacement back then too. Want a 1.8 in your MX5? Just drive on down to GTAuto. It has everything

The GT1 situation is different, because in that time, they hadn't license for some manufacturers like Fiat, for example. In GT2, has 650 cars and in GT3, most of GT2 cars were thrown away and it was reduced to 180 cars. In GT4, It had 730 cars. Do you want to have less cars, right?

 

[05XR8]

GT3 has less cars, but still has good ones like Ruf, Spoon, Chaser, GT40, SuperGT. I found the events held my attention and being able to keep wheels that I bought. I'll take 100 cars if I can customize cars, have clever AI and a challenging offline events.

I may be in a minority here in gtplanet, as far as, I'd sacrifice all the duplicates if I could only get my FPV GT back in the game. Im sure some would do the same to get back a car that was deleted.

 

[CarGamingBlog]

Perhaps Polyphony has spoiled us with the number of cars, now half of us want to keep all of our toys for GT7 while the other half believe less is more.

 

[Harsk100]

I guess that removal of standard cars is in first place...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Perhaps Polyphony has spoiled us with the number of cars, now half of us want to keep all of our toys for GT7 while the other half believe less is more.

It's not less is more. It's buying a state of of the art console and wanting the entire game to be of the same graphical consistency like every other AAA game or perhaps every game. I want to move forward and not look back. If I have to shell out $1000+ for a new console+wheel+ game the last thing I want to see is some car or track that is not one but two consoles out of date.

 

[oli440]

It's not less is more. It's buying a state of of the art console and wanting the entire game to be of the same graphical consistency like every other AAA game or perhaps every game. I want to move forward and not look back. If I have to shell out $1000+ for a new console+wheel+ game the last thing I want to see is some car or track that is not one but two consoles out of date.

Agreed. PD has put itself into a pretty difficult situation. GT's quantity was brilliant back on PS2, but attempting to maintain this quantity has had an impact on the quality.

In an ideal scenario, PD would give us 600/700 premium quality cars in GT7 at launch, and give us monthly updates containing premium cars from past GT games for free. Payed car packs could be specifically for new additions. Say we got car packs containing 10 vehicles every month. By the end of the first year, we'd have 120 new cars, bringing the total up to around 820 cars, 940 for the next year, and so on. Pretty soon, GT would once again contain over 1000 cars, but all of them would be premium!

The chances of this happening are pretty slim at this point I think. But one can only dream. If PD really are upping the game in terms of 3D modelers, surely this must mean that more cars will be created within a shorter space of time. It would make sense for them to ditch the standards and prioritize the conversion of premiums... but nope.

I'm guessing that GT7 will still have the premium/standard car divide, but all the standards would have been touched up on the outside, so they look more like premiums, but lack the interiors. Still, that's not good enough for a next gen console. It was only just acceptable on the PS3.

Does anyone here think we should do something beyond forum requests? Kaz should really know about our opinions on the standards in GT7, and how catastrophic it may turn out to be if they come back on next gen. Maybe... just maybe we can change his mind.

 

[CarGamingBlog]

Agreed, I'd rather have less cars of great quality rather than more cars and compromised quality.

 

[Riblo72]

I can accept the semi Premium cars in GT6 as a first attempt to convert them to Premium later or in GT7 but keeping them with the ugly standard Black interiors is a huge NO by me...
Now the game has more than 300 premium cars and considering that PD is increasing their staff I guess we will receive about 350 premium cars in GT7...
I think that the quantity over quality is a 100% quality for me cause I like better a single gram of chocolate over 1kg of mud...
It's offensive for the customers to say "we have 1200 cars" and then you found that 3 different entries are Peugeot LMP cars in 3 different liveries of 3 different ELMS teams...
Or that they keep the standard 1973 Alpine calling 1972 Alpine the premium one...
In EVERY other game the car is a single model and a single entry and then you have all the different liveries... AC has 1 single entry for the Abarth 500 and then you choose between a dozen of race liveries... They don't fool you saying they have 400 cars but 40 cars each with 10 different liveries...
If PD will keep the standard cars in GT7 (a dumb move IMHO) they at least should give us the possibility to not see them in the shop and in the track... I dont want to spend 500€ on console and game just to race together with cars made of Lego blocks... If I want the standard cars I already have GT3 and Gat4 on my old PS2...

 

[Meithyk]

For sure, it is a waste of time to clean up the standards at all. Which is why I said this:


I had this mindset for a while now, for PD to simply drop the standards except for handful of the most popular ones such as the BMW M3 CSL & Toyota Supra JZA80 RZ and just have those remodeled.

So as 22B.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I can accept the semi Premium cars in GT6 as a first attempt to convert them to Premium later or in GT7 but keeping them with the ugly standard Black interiors is a huge NO by me...

But you can censor yourself and simply not drive in them, of course. Those players who'd still like to see those cars in the game (or, heaven forbid, drive them) might like the choice, even if you wouldn't. Simply because there's something in a game that you don't want to use isn't a good enough reason to flop around in PD's lobby having a tantrum.

I expect the car numbers will be pretty similar; I can't remember when I put these figures together so they may be slightly inaccurate due to later DLC on either platform; totals including Standard GT models are on the left, Premium GT models are on the right.

While it's obvious that the Premium models have better quality when you're racing against them there's very little difference til you're under the back bumper (in most cases). I'd rather have the variety compared to Forza's choked "less is more" philosophy.

 

[Riblo72]

Yes, i can choose to not use the standards if i dont like them but the AI controller cars still use them and i keep see them on the track and in my photos/replays...
If i pay 400€ for the console, 70€ for the game and 300€ for the wheel i guess that's mt right to pretend that all the quality of the game is worth the money i spend...

Less is more...

 

[Johnnypenso]

But you can censor yourself and simply not drive in them, of course. Those players who'd still like to see those cars in the game (or, heaven forbid, drive them) might like the choice, even if you wouldn't. Simply because there's something in a game that you don't want to use isn't a good enough reason to flop around in PD's lobby having a tantrum.

I expect the car numbers will be pretty similar; I can't remember when I put these figures together so they may be slightly inaccurate due to later DLC on either platform; totals including Standard GT models are on the left, Premium GT models are on the right.

While it's obvious that the Premium models have better quality when you're racing against them there's very little difference til you're under the back bumper (in most cases). I'd rather have the variety compared to Forza's choked "less is more" philosophy.

View attachment 257929

You can also choose to keep your PS3 and plug it in any time you want to drive standards right?

Forza 5 now has 320ish cars IIRC, all premiums, and at the rate they are pumping out DLC it's not unreasonable to think they'll have 400-500 if a Forza 6 were released in December 2015. 500 unique premiums is a likely target for GT7 given PD's historical output figures. Although there are some gaps, IMO Forza's car list is much better balanced between old and new, unique and quirky and is much more current and of course void of the massive number of duplicates and near duplicates that GT counts as "cars".

 

[TenEightyOne]

You can also choose to keep your PS3 and plug it in any time you want to drive standards right?

Forza 5 now has 320ish cars IIRC, all premiums, and at the rate they are pumping out paid DLC it's not unreasonable to think they'll have 400-500 if a Forza 6 were released in December 2015. 500 unique premiums is a likely target for GT7 given PD's historical output figures. Although there are some gaps, IMO Forza's car list is much better balanced between old and new, unique and quirky and is much more current and of course void of the massive number of duplicates and near duplicates that GT counts as "cars".

I added a word, for reference

But let's say there were an option to hide standard cars, would you go for that? I just like to put races together with all kinds of stuff... why shouldn't I have the option to use a resource which is already there and which I know is of lesser quality?

I understand that some players really really don't want to use them and that's cool, they pays their money and takes their choice. But then.... I do too... but omitting them would only damage my choice, right?

EDIT: 245 on this list including 9 DLC packs, there might be a couple of packs missing though: http://forzamotorsport.wikia.com/wiki/Forza_Motorsport_5/Car_List

 

[Johnnypenso]

I added a word, for reference

But let's say there were an option to hide standard cars, would you go for that? I just like to put races together with all kinds of stuff... why shouldn't I have the option to use a resource which is already there and which I know is of lesser quality?

I understand that some players really really don't want to use them and that's cool, they pays their money and takes their choice. But then.... I do too... but omitting them would only damage my choice, right?

EDIT: 245 on this list including 9 DLC packs, there might be a couple of packs missing though: http://forzamotorsport.wikia.com/wiki/Forza_Motorsport_5/Car_List

ForzaCentral says 322. As @Riblo72 mentioned above, if I'm shelling out $CDN1000+ on top of $50/year to play online, I want a next gen game from top to bottom, not some rehashed cars and tracks from a ten year old system. No other game that I am aware of would even think of doing this, I don't understand why the GT series would be an exception to this. You, like everyone else, seem to think it's about you, about taking choices away from you somehow, therefore it's wrong. You would have the same choice that pretty much every other game franchise in the history of gaming has given it's fans. Buy the new system+game for the next gen content, or put the old one in for the old, last gen content. In GT's case much of the content is already next gen ready and that's great.

 

[Riblo72]

I WOULD HIDE STANDARDS For sure...
In fact i dont want standards to waste Space onnthe disk instead of somethong better (music, Premium tracks, Premium cars)...
I want to race with all kind of cars not with all kind of lego bricks...

The problem is, though i like GT, since GT4 PD is pumping out the number of cars and tracks in a stupid way (each livery is a different car according to PD) trying to have that useless record of BIGGEST driving sim while the oyher games give you a better driving Experience...
You can find the var you want probably in GT6 but it drives like s***t and sounds like a vacuum cleaner...

In addiction PD call STANDARD the old ugly PS2 cars and Premium the new beautiful cars like the normal thing would be the standard car and the premiums are a cool gift...
Pity t'ha what PD call Premium is the STANDARD level of a car in every driving sim in every platform...

 

[TenEightyOne]

You, like everyone else, seem to think it's about you, about taking choices away from you somehow, therefore it's wrong

If I'm shelling out $CDN1000+ on top of $50/year to play online, I want a next gen game from top to bottom

I don't know if that was an intentional joke, Timmy, but I smiled

ten year old system. No other game that I am aware of would even think of doing this, I don't understand why the GT series would be an exception to this.

But I'm on my fifth iteration of Forza that STILL has the drivatar bugs from Forza 1, that STILL has the tuning pit bug from Forza 1, the core software is the same, no fixes (except aero, in Forza 5). They took out drivatars for 3 of the iterations and then gave them back (only one, and you can't race your own this time). I don't feel the refresh there. I keep buying it though

If you have the choice not to use something you can take it, it seems extreme for you to imply that my expressing a choice should make you so angry. If you don't like them, don't use them, what's the big deal?

I don't like aubergines but you're welcome to them.

EDIT: Looking at your Forza figures; 208 cars available to all on Day One with another 25 available through special packs/DLC (making 233 on day one).

Then another 89 cars via DLC making the total 322.

So of those 322 you can only access 208 for free. Hmmm.

 

[Riblo72]

Yes Forza can have issuea but the AI of GT is ugly since GT1, the damage System is ugly since GT1, and so on...
No game is Perfect but at least the other ones try always to improve the game not lazily rehash old 3D models from 10 years ago...

And about Forza and paid DLC...
GT5 had paid DLC cars too... GT6 doesnt have it but the number of cars you win is a lot lower, the prizes from the races are lower (increased only by the daily access that forces you to turn on the console everyday) and some cars still have crazy 20,000,000 credits prices...
This to male you but the credits from the store...

 

[Harsk100]

You mean that you want less cars?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't know if that was an intentional joke, Timmy, but I smiled



But I'm on my fifth iteration of Forza that STILL has the drivatar bugs from Forza 1, that STILL has the tuning pit bug from Forza 1, the core software is the same, no fixes (except aero, in Forza 5). They took out drivatars for 3 of the iterations and then gave them back (only one, and you can't race your own this time). I don't feel the refresh there. I keep buying it though

If you have the choice not to use something you can take it, it seems extreme for you to imply that my expressing a choice should make you so angry. If you don't like them, don't use them, what's the big deal?

I don't like aubergines but you're welcome to them.

EDIT: Looking at your Forza figures; 208 cars available to all on Day One with another 25 available through special packs/DLC (making 233 on day one).

Then another 89 cars via DLC making the total 322.

So of those 322 you can only access 208 for free. Hmmm.

I specifically made the GT7/Forza 6 comparison not Forza 5, so the paid DLC will be irrelevant at that time. Those are the two versions of the game that will be most directly compared, depending on release dates of course.

at the rate they are pumping out DLC it's not unreasonable to think they'll have 400-500 if a Forza 6 were released in December 2015. 500 unique premiums is a likely target for GT7 given PD's historical output figures.

And not all the cars are paid DLC so that figure is also incorrect for FM5. If you want I can also look that up for you. Again, using your own logic, if you have a choice to play with standards on PS3 you take it, it seems extreme that me expressing my opinion about wanting a next game game with consistent graphical quality should make you so angry. If you like standards play with them on the PS3. See what I did there?

Pure car count is meaningless anyway because it doesn't take into account the game behind the count, the variety of cars, representation of various eras, fan favourites etc. 300 well chosen cars IMO would beat 1200 cars of which 2/3rds are out of date graphically, the modern era is generally poorly represented and the car count is padded with massive numbers of duplicates, near duplicates, and cars that are the exact same but with different liveries. Heck I'm more looking forward to Project Cars 75 car lineup than just about anything else at this point because the cars are all exceptional, there are no dogs in the bunch, the track selection is ludicrously good and most importantly it's wrapped around a purpose built game from the ground up that is only aiming to be one thing.

If all one cares about is raw car count, you can't beat GT. I like the buffet analogy. When you go out to eat and you have a choice of a buffet or fine dining and the price is the same, you can still only eat one meal at a time. If you think by stuffing your face with food and making yourself completely full even if the food is slightly stale or overcooked or not the right spices is culinary bliss, GT will satisfy you every time. The handling isn't quite right, the sounds are way off, the FFB is dull and muted, the offline and online racing leaves a lot to be desired..but heck..you get a lot of cars!! If you want fine dining and all that entails, you might have to look elsewhere and I see the inclusion of standards as simply keeping the GT philosphy that "more is better" regardless of quality. Kaz is a perfectionist after all.

You mean that you want less cars?

Irrelevant. I want all cars to be the same graphical quality, ie. next gen. Whatever that number is, is fine with me.

 

[TenEightyOne]

it seems extreme that me expressing my opinion about wanting a next game game with consistent graphical quality should make you so angry.

You'd be right - that'd be tremendously extreme, fortunately I'm pretty zen about it

I like the buffet analogy. When you go out to eat and you have a choice of a buffet or fine dining and the price is the same, you can still only eat one meal at a time. If you think by stuffing your face with food and making yourself completely full even if the food is slightly stale or overcooked or not the right spices is culinary bliss, GT will satisfy you every time. The handling isn't quite right, the sounds are way off, the FFB is dull and muted, the offline and online racing leaves a lot to be desired..but heck..you get a lot of cars!! If you want fine dining and all that entails, you might have to look elsewhere and I see the inclusion of standards as simply keeping the GT philosphy that "more is better" regardless of quality. Kaz is a perfectionist after all

I disagree, I think more choice is better even if the wider quality is mixed. It's true of anything to say that we could keep the best-only and reduce the choice. We'd eat better every night (separately, thank you) with fewer choices.

But every now and then... don't you just fancy a Pot Noodle?

EDIT: Where did you get a cost of $1000USD, or does your argument punish others for your choice to buy a console for the game? That's not quite relevant, or I'm adding my new TV stand.

 

[SCER]

I have to say, I'm really really tired of hearing about Project Cars on GT6 threads.

 

[Johnnypenso]

5

You'd be right - that'd be tremendously extreme, fortunately I'm pretty zen about it



I disagree, I think more choice is better even if the wider quality is mixed. It's true of anything to say that we could keep the best-only and reduce the choice. We'd eat better every night (separately, thank you) with fewer choices.

But every now and then... don't you just fancy a Pot Noodle?

EDIT: Where did you get a cost of $1000USD, or does your argument punish others for your choice to buy a console for the game? That's not quite relevant, or I'm adding my new TV stand.

I didn't say $US1000 I said $CDN1000. I don't know what American prices are. I have an almost new, perfectly good mid-range wheel that Sony decided to make obsolete. So wheel+game+PS4+tax=$CDN1050 give or take. Would be about the same for Forza obviously.