Clueless, over The Hill Outlaws - OP Updated 06/10/14

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by CyKosis1973, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. NEWDRIVER2

    NEWDRIVER2

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    I think I'm not that fast just driving with care and my cars slow like Turtle :sly: thank you :tup: now no more flash brake :lol:
    It's okay sir you will make it next time RL come first . About the BTCC , just put up here the spec and let's build some cars and do it :tup:

    ND
     
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  2. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    I've cherry-picked a few of the regulations that the cars have to meet, I'm sure we could find something to fit. I reckon they'll be around 500-550PP. Items in bold are available in the game, or can be approximated :tup:

    NGTC technical overview:

    Engine:
    - 300+bhp 2-litre turbo-charged direct-injection engine with 'fly by wire' throttle control.
    - Low cost to develop, build, buy and maintain - either by teams and/or race engine-builders developing their own, or through lease/purchase of the TOCA-BTCC engine
    - Engine can be sourced from a manufacturers broad 'family' range, including subsidiary marques under their effective control.


    Drivetrain:
    - Xtrac 6 speed sequential-shift gearbox.
    - AP Racing carbon clutch.
    - Drive-train layout (i.e. front or rear wheel drive) as per base vehicle.


    Suspension:
    - Full front sub-frame incorporating suspension, brakes, transmission and engine location that attaches to specified roll cage locations. Multi-adjustable double wishbone suspension with coil-over dampers.
    - Rear sub-frame that attaches to specified roll cage locations. Multi-adjustable double wishbone suspension with coil-over dampers.


    Bodyshell:
    - 2,3,4 or 5 door of a minimum 4.4m length. (2 or 3 door cars must share the same basic body profile as the 4/5 door model).
    - Specified front aerodynamic device incorporating flat floor, apertures for radiator, brake cooling ducts, intercooler and side exits.
    - Specified rear wing profile
    - Stylised front & rear wheel-arch extensions.
    - Increased driver protection
    - Side exhaust permitted
    - 80 litre fuel tank
    - Base vehicle must be freely on sale in the UK through the manufacturers normal dealer network
    - Base vehicle weights, for front and rear-wheel drive, 975kg and 1000kg, respectively


    Wheels/Tyres:
    - Specified 18" centre-lock wheel
    - Dunlop: 245 x 650 x R18


    Brakes:
    - AP Racing specified package

    Electronics:
    - Cosworth Electronics specified package incorporating ECU, dash, data-logging and scrutineering logger.
     
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  3. danbojte

    danbojte

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    Sam, I didn't upgraded anything, as I wrote. :p It was used as you've built it, just changed to Sports Soft. ;) :tup:
     
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  4. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    Here are a few cars that would sort of qualify. I'd need to check and see they have the option to install a flat floor or not, plus there's some slightly iffy cars.

    FWD Cars
    Alfa Romeo 147 GTA '02
    Citroën C4 Coupe 2.0VTS '05
    Ford Focus ST '06
    Ford Focus ST '13
    Honda CIVIC TYPE R '08
    Mazda Atenza Sport 25Z '07
    Peugeot 307 CC Premium AVN '04
    Renault Sport Megane R.S. '08
    Renault Sport Megane R.S. Trophy '11
    Volkswagen Golf IV GTI '01
    Volkswagen Golf V GTI '05
    Volkswagen Scirocco R '10
    Volvo C30 R-Design '09
    Possibly Eligble
    Abarth Grande Punto '09
    Peugeot 207 GTi '07
    Honda CR-Z α '10

    RWD Cars
    BMW 135i Coupe '07
    Chevrolet Camaro SS '10
    Ford Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
    Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
    Infiniti G35 Sedan '03
    Lexus IS F '07
    SRT Charger SRT8 '11

    I'm not sure if I've copy and pasted the premium Alfa in there and in fact there may be one other Alfa that I haven't added. Will look later today. Also not sure about the Camaro, the Mustang or the IS F...

    {Cy}
     
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  5. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    I had the same problems like you with my brakes recently,blinking and even braking sometime. I´ve just sprayed WD40 in my G27 pedals (without opening the box) and everything is OK now.
    This is the only problem that happened 3 times in 4 years of very intensive use of my G27... This is a fantastic strong wheel. During this time i know people that have broken several others fanatecs.;):tup:
     
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  6. randyrockstiff

    randyrockstiff

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    can i get it on this ??
     
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  7. randyrockstiff

    randyrockstiff

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    regulations of btcc hope this helps a bit

    btcc thread from gt5

    Also found this . it might give a bit more insight in to what cars are suitable to use or whatever. If im sticking my nose in then im sorry but i think this btcc is a gteat idea !!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2014
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  8. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    You certainly can, my friend, once we figure out what 'it' is..!! They're all going to have to be premium cars, as I don't believe it's possibly to install the flat floor, nor front aero on any standard cars :tdown:

    I had a look at that GT5 thread and I'd love to use some of those cars, but I really want to replicate the downforce these cars have. I like the idea of turning non-racing cars into racing cars, but without the downforce, they're just pimped up Halfords Specials :(

    There's no way we'll be able to match the BTCC regs, I can't imagine that you'll be able to get the cars down to sub-1000kg and still have a respectable weight distribution. I'm thinking that the cars will end up around 300BHP and 1200kg, I think it's only fair that the RWD cars carry extra weight too. Note, no 4WD cars at all, which is annoying, because both Audi and Mercedes currently compete in BTCC and have been converted to RWD. Shame we can't carry out drivetrain swaps..!!

    I've also recategorised the cars as below, actual and potential. The actual cars currently compete in BTCC, although they may be slightly different to the cars available in the game (e.g. the Scirocco is representing the Volkswagen CC that competes in the actual series). The potential cars are simply that, cars I think could potentially feature in BTCC style racing. There's some nice(ish) RWD cars at the end which would likely fall into some sort of "heavy weight" category, maybe we can add hybrid vehicles to this list too, the big Tesla and the Fisker. I don't know, I need to play with some of the cars. I had thought about limiting the amount of Credits that you can use to buy the car and it's parts, like the BTCC is for real. That might get complicated though :odd:

    Actual FWD Cars
    Ford Focus ST '13
    Honda CIVIC TYPE R '08
    Volkswagen Scirocco R '10
    Potential FWD Cars
    Abarth Grande Punto '09
    Alfa Romeo 147 GTA '02
    Citroën C4 Coupe 2.0VTS '05
    Ford Focus ST '06
    Peugeot 207 GTi '07
    Honda CR-Z α '10
    Mazda Atenza Sport 25Z '07
    Peugeot 307 CC Premium AVN '04
    Renault Sport Megane R.S. '08
    Renault Sport Megane R.S. Trophy '11
    Volkswagen Golf IV GTI '01
    Volkswagen Golf V GTI '05
    Volvo C30 R-Design '09

    Actual RWD Cars
    BMW 135i Coupe '07

    Potential RWD Cars
    Chevrolet Camaro SS '10
    Ford Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
    Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
    Infiniti G35 Sedan '03
    Lexus IS F '07
    SRT Charger SRT8 '11
     
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  9. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    I wish I could say the same. I've selected 'watch thread' for this particular thread and haven't received one single notification in almost a month :irked:

    This isn't the only thread this had happened with either :grumpy:

    I use an iPhone 4S for my connection to the 21st century as I don't have any other options.
     
  10. danbojte

    danbojte

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    I'm sorry to hear that, Pete. :grumpy:
     
  11. randyrockstiff

    randyrockstiff

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    Ive got the megane r.s 08. Its got all all upgrades on it, havent yet tuned it though. Done an oil change aswell. heres the specs of it.

    493bhp
    1147kg
    55kgfm
    2.32kg/bhp
    61/39
    542 pp.

    So im wondering if this could possibly suit the specs for btcc, obviously if it needs a lower bhp and so on that can be changed but thats what it weighs in at and has power wise maxed out. There is no option for a flat floor or any other add ons except spoilers which me personally thinks looks pretty idiotic on this type of car lol.
     
  12. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    Thanks for investigating. Confirms some/most of my fears :guilty: We don't have enough control over the cars to really emulate what we want. To get that Megane to a decent weight distribution, you're going to have to drop a 100kg in the boot. I don't know for sure, but I'd be surprised if any of the BTCC cars runs anything like 60/40, even factoring in front mounted engines. And it wouldn't really matter anyway, because you can add downforce. The aesthetics I can just about live with, I drive on bonnet view, so I'm not that bothered, but I am still bothered.

    To add insult to injury, I've been reading about the Top Gear Magazine guys building a rally car from a Hyundai i20 and they're taking it to Wales Rally GB. Honestly, a bunch of journos can take something they built in a shed to an actual rally, but we can't modify cars in GT6 :mad:

    I'll sleep on it, the weekend is near :cheers:

    {Cy}
     
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  13. Woodski_427

    Woodski_427

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    Or to reduce the risk of (further) insanity, you could water it down bit and go for a more GT friendly Touring Car 'alike' spec. You could get close (probably), use a variety of cars and create a fair weight (and maybe power) variation to account for the drivetrains. Downforce is going to be the problem I suspect - not so many cars get the flat floor I think.

    Anyway, just a sanity check before you leap down the rabbit hole of replication :crazy: :lol:. Feel free to ignore me as you wish.


    @Pete05 - if you unwatch, then watch again, it might work. I don't think it's your phone.
     
  14. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    Thankyou Woodski :) :tup:
    I'll give that a go & hopefully it works :cheers:
     
  15. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    I'll have a look at a variety of cars over the weekend and see if there's enough to work with. I may have to grind the Seasonals a bit, I'm down to my last 8mil :sly:

    {Cy}
     
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  16. NEWDRIVER2

    NEWDRIVER2

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    Hi my friend ,
    Looks like you are away and busy in RL , hope every thing okay . I took out that beautiful car and I made some changes to be suit my driving style and I can use it as a weapon on The Ring 420PP CS :tup: I hope you allow me to post the new parts using some of your adjust numbers . Thanks
    I was looking for something Clueless something to put the smile on my face and I found that car . The car was pre update of V1.04 I think so , she want some new adjust and new numbers to suit the extra power added to it to go 420PP .
    I will be start to put up some clueless tunes and I will focus on the old cars , the BlueBird it will be posted by today night after my work and I wish to see some comment on it so I can make it better . Thanks Clueless garage friends

    ND
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
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  17. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    I did my first Motorsport event in one of these great little cars. It was the ex-1982 Australian Rally Championship winner.
    It had a 1.8-litre with twin 48mm Weber carburettors and all the good bits for around 180bhp.
    Fantastic car
     
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  18. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    My parents had a couple of Bluebirds in the 80's. The last one, my mother wrote off in a fairly substantial accident. She had to swerve to avoid on-coming traffic as she was crossing a bridge. She went through the fence and flew off an embankment into a field. Before she hit the ground again, she passed between two trees. To this day, she swears she steered the car through the gap in the trees, despite the wheels not being in contact with the ground!! The emergency service guys measured the gap, she had about 6 inches on either side of the car. Whilst none of us believe she actually steered the car mid-flight, they did find out that she was extremely lucky to be alive, not because of her amazing 'air driving skills', but because the engine block had deflected a concrete fence post out the side of the car. Had the block not been there, the post would have gone right through the driver's seat. Plucky little motor that Datsun, I still remember the registration to this day, PRL 826Y, may you rest in pieces...

    {Cy}
     
  19. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    That's an amazing story Cy. Thankfully your Mum is still around to recall what is surely one very lucky escape.
    It was 28 years ago that I put the helmet on for the 1st time & I can still remember the rego plate too: IFK 250 aka 'The Grunter'.
    Great motors the L series. If you kept the oil level up, you couldn't kill em. The 1.8 (L18) with L16 head was ported, bored & stroked to 2.1 & would happily rev to 8,000 rpm. With the Option 1 gearbox having a direct 1:1 5th gear and a 5.1 diff ratio, maximum speed was only 100mph but it'd do the 1/4 mile in around 13 seconds. Perfect for a rally car even if it did get wheelspin in 3rd gear and chirp the tyres into 4th.
     
  20. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    Sorry for double posting, just trying to keep conversations separate. So I've been through a selection of cars that might be suitable and the attached is what I've found. I think there's only a couple of RWD cars in the proper BTCC, the BMW 1 Series estate and the Audi A4. I've included the Nissans and the 86 GT clones just because, but would be prepared to cull them, they're not really the sorts of cars I want. The BMW technically isn't either, the cars are meant to be tourers, not sports coupes, but it is a 1 Series and it can have a flat floor. I'd also be prepared to drop the Integra on similar grounds and due to it's well documented advantages. Also, there's the issue of the older Civic and the Golf, neither of which have any options other than the flat floor. I've no idea if this will be an advantage or a disadvantage. I'd probably drop the older Civic because it's old, but the Golf looks lovely.

    I'll keep looking, it's difficult with limited searching options. I have a list of cars I've already checked don't have flat aero, see below to save yourself some time. If you guys don't mind having a search yourselves, in case I've missed something.

    I think the general rules for now are:
    • Front engined
    • Two wheel drive
    • Over 4200mm long
    • 6 cylinder, ideally less
    • Touring style car
    I've not tested these cars in any way shape or form, I've merely ascertained their flat floored eligibility. It'll require some time to test if they can be made competitive :indiff: It'll also take a bit of time to figure out how to restrict them and on what tyres to run them. Real BTCC run on racing slicks, but we know that tyres are super grippy in GT6 and the cars are going to have a fair amount of downforce available to them. Sports tyres may be sufficient. Lots to think about.

    BTTC_Cars.jpg

    Potential Cars
    FWD
    • Ford Focus ST '06
    • Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EK) '97
    • Honda CIVIC TYPE R '08
    • Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC5) '04
    • Volkswagen Golf V GTI '05
    • Volkswagen Scirocco R '10
    RWD
    • BMW 135i Coupe '07
    • Nissan Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) '07
    • Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) '02
    • Scion FR-S '12
    • Subaru BRZ S '12

    Searched cars with no flat floor option:
    Abarth Grande Punto '09
    Alfa Romeo 147 TI 2.0 TWIN SPARK '06
    Citroën C4 Coupe 2.0VTS '05
    Ford Focus ST '13
    Honda CR-Z α '10
    Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track '13
    Infiniti G35 Coupe '06
    Mazda Atenza Sport 25Z '07
    Nissan SKYLINE Coupe 370GT Type SP '06
    MINI (I've assumed none of them have any aero, none I've check so far have and they didn't in GT5)
    Peugeot 207 GTi '07
    Peugeot 307 CC Premium AVN '04
    Renault Sport Megane R.S. '08
    Renault Sport Megane R.S. Trophy '11
    Volkswagen Golf IV GTI '01
    Volvo C30 R-Design '09
    TOYOTA 86 GT '12
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2014
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  21. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    She dined out on it for years, probably still does :sly:

    I always liked the Datsuns back in the day. There's been a lot in the press recently about the wealthy Arabs coming over to London and driving all their hypercars around, Lambos, Ferraris, all sorts. The best one I saw though, was a 1970's Skyline, which judging by the decals on the side of it and the layer of dirt, had driven all the way to London from Kuwait..!! I'd love to have been on that road trip!!

    {Cy}
     
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  22. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    The old Datsuns did well here thanks to the interchangeable parts found at the wreckers.
    A weekend on the tools could provide amazing gains for the dollar spent. Want a 5-speed or better brakes, find a Skyline.
     
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  23. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    Ok, so I've had a little bit of time to test some of the cars. I decided to single out the four cars that best resemble the current cars competing in BTCC. The Ford Focus ST '06, Honda CIVIC TYPE R '08, Volkswagen Scirocco R '10 and the BMW 135i Coupe '07. They're all reasonably close to each other in time with a simple tune up and 5 quick laps at Brands Hatch. I was running fairly consistent 1:38s, which contrasts quite nicely with the qualifying time of 1:31, set by Jason Plato this year. The Scirocco put down the fastest time with the least effort, it may be that fixed weight distribution is required. The other two FWD cars can't quite match the Scirocco's distribution.

    The Cars
    • The Ford Focus ST '06
    • Honda CIVIC TYPE R '08
    • Volkswagen Scirocco R '10
    • BMW 135i Coupe '07

    The Restrictions
    • Tyres: SM
    • Power: 315BHP
    • Weight: FWD - 1300kg RWD - 1400kg

    Mandatory Parts
    • Front, rear and flat-floor aero must be installed. Rear aero settings may be adjusted
    • Racing Brakes
    • ECU
    • All adjustable parts (suspension, transmission and differential)
    • Full drivetrain upgrades
    • Carbon Bonnet
    I'm going to carry on tinkering with the cars I've built. Have a go yourselves and let me know what you think. If you think something needs changing, then say so. I think that the FWD cars might need fixing at 54/46 weight distribution, to slow the Scirocco down. I'll also consider going up to SS tyres, which would put us a lot closer to the real world times being achieved. I appreciate that these cars are 300-400kg heavier than the real ones, but hey.

    Maybe we can meet up online for a few races :tup:

    {Cy}
     
  24. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    Looks like a great group of closely matched cars. Very well thought out sir!:tup:
     
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  25. CyKosis1973

    CyKosis1973

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    Thank you, Sir. They're proving to be quite tasty so far, just waiting for @NEWDRIVER2 to join me for a spot of competitive testing. Anyone else is welcome to join us :tup:

    I've thrown some weight over the front wheels of the Sirocco, it's not happy about it, but it has brought its times more in line with the other three. A 54/46 weight split might have to be mandatory.

    In other news, can we all give @randyrockstiff a pat on the back for a podium finish in his first ever shootout. Check the usual posts in the FITT Hot Version Drivetrain Challenge thread for the results and raise your glasses :cheers: Well done, fella :cheers:

    {Cy}
     
  26. Lionheart2113

    Lionheart2113

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    :cheers: @randyrockstiff
    Congrats again and great job rookie!:p

    @CyKosis1973 are you still testing at Brands Hatch or are there other circuits in mind?
     
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  27. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    @randyrockstiff

    A podium on debut :bowdown: :cheers:
    Well done & you've just made the other tuners sit up & take notice :eek:
     
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  28. randyrockstiff

    randyrockstiff

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    @Pete05 @CyKosis1973 @Lionheart2113 thanks very much guys. just lucky i think but wow i didnt think i stood a chance tbh.
    does anyone know when the next event is ???
     
  29. randyrockstiff

    randyrockstiff

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    just about to pick a car to start testinv with. i will let you know the outcome and tune
     
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  30. randyrockstiff

    randyrockstiff

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    oli change allowed or not ??