Competitors and Viewers Criticize Stewarding at FIA GT Championship's Nurburgring World Tour

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. GTPNewsWire

    GTPNewsWire Contributing Writer

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  2. kjeldsen

    kjeldsen

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    "One thing we need to bear in mind though is that neither the viewers nor the drivers have access to the car telemetry available to the stewards."

    It would be cool if they were more transparent about the penalties, why not let us see the exact same footage with an added comment on why the decision is made. And as i suggested in another thread, the Champion should be decided on points, not a single race. Add one or two more races into the mix and after the final race (that could be 2x points) the winner is the one with the most points. That would give the stewards more tools to work with.

    But as the article also hints at, the biggest problem is the consistency of the stewarding.
     
  3. Venturetto

    Venturetto

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    This reminds me the Verstappen incident this weekend. It's the lack of consistency what make us angry.
     
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  4. O604

    O604

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    First off, I think blame the players not the game. I think it's silly to expect anyone to predict how cheaters will game a system.

    But basic rules and penalty system as they are now are illogical. They are not real motor sport rules, they not the same rules as 1 player mode, they feel pretty arbitrary, strict in some areas, non-existent in others.

    A good game needs clear rules. A good sport needs a fair spirit.

    Make the rules clear and the racing fair and the community can adapt to that. Not a lot to go on at the moment.
     
  5. BallPtPenTheif

    BallPtPenTheif

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    When the rules are vague and not clear, you can only blame PD. Is Dive Bombing actually against the rules? In FIA rules, cutting to the inside without any vehicle overlap is illegal. That move is totally legal in GT Sport. During the live events it almost seems like dive bombing is only illegal when it ruins the race for anybody in the top 5 spots.

    You really can't have a sport operating on such loose standards.
     
  6. Dodge Lamb

    Dodge Lamb

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    All this time later and I'm still wondering where I got penalized for a Ford + Chevrolet incident in Sardegna for Manufacturers.

    I don't mind being penalized, but I would at least like to understand why.
     
  7. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood

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    I watched that Goodwood race and had to replay the Brooks/Suguwara incident a few times. I was somewhat baffled that a penalty wasn't doled out.
     
  8. ARTAsean

    ARTAsean

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    I’m baffled that Brooks got taken out of competitive positions in almost every single race and nothing was done about it. He should be given an honorary invite to the next event.
     
  9. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood

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    Yeah, I watched some of the Red Bullseye race afterwards and cringed. I felt really sorry for him.
     
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  10. Dodge Lamb

    Dodge Lamb

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    Yeah, he should be given an honorary invite. Instead he gets an honorary ban warning for quitting the repechage. Funny how the stewards address issues.
     
    vvise, Loverson, TheHun99 and 14 others like this.
  11. redhed17

    redhed17

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    The stewarding at the events I have watched has seemed to be getting worse, with a lot of questionable things ignored, and if it happens off camera (from some participants comments of their races) some fairly blatant stuff doesn't even get a second look. They have the ability to look at anything and everything if needs be, it's not like they have to rewind 'tape', and unlike real life motorsports, have access to all the driver inputs to help decide 'indent'. But even intent is not necessarily needed for someone to be at fault.

    I'd rather the guilty were punished, and the results delayed than to let stuff pass. Keep people informed as to what was being investigated and quickly shown, and it could be a seamless part of the event.
     
    Novalee likes this.
  12. Calmlity

    Calmlity

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    Still using suggested gear and no heavy damage implementation at Official FIA's live event!? Come on........
     
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  13. zzz_pt

    zzz_pt Premium

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    Maybe the stewards were the same from yesterday's F1 race.

    Brooks had no right to the outside line, apparently.

    Better yet, there's no outside lines. If you're on the inside you have all the track for you. :)
     
    Cerebral303, Dezcom, Brzlav and 3 others like this.
  14. Deafsun

    Deafsun

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    This is really kind of you to say, so thanks for that, but I am not special. Alot of people have bad luck in this game (although mine was a bit extreme) and I think that the top priority should shift to helping to solve the problem so that nobody else has to deal with the situation that I was put in during future events.

    Perhaps one possible solution could be to have the race replay readily available so that they can be viewed after the fact from multiple angles. I also noticed that a lot of incidents that happen in the back half of the field (particularly at the Nurb 24h manu final) go completely unnoticed, so being able to view the race replay and swap to cars that were not featured in the live stream might be a useful addition to helping to improve the integrity of stewarding in future races.

    Another example was an incident that took place between Beauvois and Pounder on the last lap of Semi final A. I saw one of their screens at the event and one of them appeared to be pit maneuvering the other (although I could not tell at the time who the victim was, nor could I see how the contact was initiated). And since it was not shown on the live stream, nobody has any idea what happened between them and there were no penalties given out. A replay feature that is publicly available could have helped in situations like this one.
     
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  15. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    This is one of the incidents I refer to in the article - we can't exactly say what happened either, but 10th and 11th came into the final chicane braking alongside each other, 11th passed and, somehow, the other car lost three seconds. This all happened off-screen between the braking zone for the chicane and the final corner. @Jimmy B actually mentioned it on the broadcast, before we cut to speaking to Igor.

    Another, very similar incident happened in the World Final. There 10th had a 1.2s gap to 11th going into the braking zone for the Dunlop Chicane at Fuji on the last lap. Somehow between the camera cutting from that corner to the next, the two cars swapped positions. We never saw how, although I've certainly heard how.

    In both these incidents, that pass determined who took the final repechage qualification place and who went home (well, figuratively) - at least as important as the 4th/5th split - but we don't know how the pass happened. A single-corner deficit of 2-3s simply doesn't happen between world-ranked drivers without one or the other making an error (the lead car falling off by themselves, the following car helping them), so we're looking at two incidents that we never saw and were never investigated that determined who stayed in and who didn't...

    ... which is a pisser if you're writing race reports :lol:
     
  16. Cuber Tom

    Cuber Tom Premium

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    I've been pretty vocal about the penalties in one of our whats app groups. As far as I can tell the amount of poor driving has been increasing every event. The penalties aren't enough to dissuade people from making poor moves especially when you won't even be penalised half the time.

    I remember at the Nurburgring event in 2018 there was an FIA certificated steward assigned for watch over 2 rigs (they literally stood right behind us). This system wasn't perfect but it meant incidents not on screen weren't going to be missed.

    I would also like to see them implement penalty points to the drivers "licence". Too many points and you're banned for 1 live event similar to what they have in F1 and many other motorsports.
    This is especially needed for the desperate last corner lunges when someone is in a position where they'll get knocked out i they do nothing. There is currently no incentive not to do this.

    One more thing I would love to see is some proper post race analysis and different camera not just replays of the same camera angle we got in the race.
     
  17. BjoBosUndies

    BjoBosUndies

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    Ban players for the next competitive race for the punt/incident. This way it impinges on their overall standings for the event.

    And go even harsher on the drivers who do it over the spread of a few events by banning them from the next competition.
     
  18. dabz343

    dabz343

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    If PD does not address this issue by the next live event, then the drivers should think seriously about organizing themselves to proactively advise PD about solutions that institute fair play.
     
  19. Winnie847

    Winnie847

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    I've got a question about the first incident pictured at Monza. I still need to re-watch again to refresh my memory about the before and after, but referring to the picture provided.....where else should the Merc be? He goes for the outside position into the first part of the chicane, then stays all the way to the inside of the 2nd part. It looked to me like Lexus turned in on him. Look at all that space to the right of the Lexus! I felt that the Merc was just trying to take the corner side by side, which can be done. Someone please explain.
     
    Groundfish likes this.
  20. Leggacy

    Leggacy

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    I don’t think there will ever be an automated or AI system that can accurately judge blame or intent. In real life sometimes the stewards get it Wrong.

    In the world of sport, virtual or meat space, there will always be beef. ;)
     
    JEverettL, Groundfish and Pigems like this.
  21. Auditore

    Auditore

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    The stewards should have a monitor showing the driver car in third person camera.So they dont miss anything in replay angles.
    I like the idea of each driver having a "license" that if enough penalties are given theyre banned for 1 event.But i hope it never comes to that point.
    Other solution is just longer races.The sprint nature of these races is making some drivers get desperate and going for some overtakes that are too risky.If the races were longer the stewards would have more time to watch the incidents and would lower changes of incident investigation after the chequered flag.
     
    Brzlav and Jomas like this.
  22. BadFlounder

    BadFlounder

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    IMO a warning for quitting was appropriate. These are a handful of player spots out of tens of thousands competing online. It is a true privilege to be there and Polyphony are also putting on a broadcast beamed out to thousands online. Quitting should not be tolerated, no matter how poorly a race goes (and I saw it too, he was robbed). Simply cannot have players that will quit during events. Now, to be fair, a future event ban might have been harsh given the circumstances, so a warning seems appropriate.
     
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  23. schnick

    schnick

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    Now that we know event bans are a thing after the warning to deafsun (justified or not) hopefully everyone realises that PD are taking their events very seriously and behaviour on and off the track are being scrutinised. Unfortunately, the stewarding of on track behaviour appears to be quite inconsistent and until we get any kind of transparency we will continue to criticise it. Although we'll probably still criticise it like f1 stewarding at least we can see their reasoning.
     
  24. Dodge Lamb

    Dodge Lamb

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    I told him myself that I think it's completely justified and he shouldn't have reacted the way he did. However, the way PD went about it (randomly passing it on in the middle of the afterparty when all of us are trying to wind down) was really poor. God forbid you get crashed by other people in 4 out of your 5 races and in every single incident, nobody cared. They should be putting the quality of racecraft as priority over something like that imo.

    I have my own issues with my Ford race at Sardegna where the BMW ahead of me moved into my line under braking 3/7 laps and ran me off at turn 1 as well. Things like this go completely unnoticed and they're pivotal to the overall results. Nobody wants to deal with this, and the stewards should be paying more attention universally.
     
  25. Sidawg2

    Sidawg2

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    The Pounder/Beauvois incident from my perspective was Pounder sliding out of the chicane on throttle, right into the path of Beauvois who couldn't do much about it.

    They should probably cut down on the aggressive moves, plenty of times I saw people being shifted aside with a tap in the rear quarter panel. I spent my Monza race avoiding people firing down my inside, going off, and then rejoining straight back into my path. But better that than being sent to the sand and them getting a token 1 second penalty from it (or nothing at all)

    The egregious ones that went unpenalised were a farce - Porsche blatantly fencing the Merc in the first race, Deafsuns incidents, and then the penalty applied to Hizal after he already waited for everybody to pass made no sense at all.
     
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  26. WiseGuyTM

    WiseGuyTM

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    I cannot take this seriously until I see a more diverse cast of stewards. I can’t confirm this but I have to assume they are all Japanese because of Brook’s story (they sent a Japanese person with a translator to warn him) and, being cynical, my bias senses are tingling. In manufacturers, the Toyota has way to much top end for what it is. We wouldn’t have had the final corner incident on the ‘ring if the Toyota wasn’t so damn fast. Or at the very least it would be more cut and dry. In the semifinals nations cup race, pole had the Supra in supposedly random car drawings. But in that same race a Japanese driver dive-bombed an American for the final spot in the repicharge race and nothing happens. Then of course in the first repicharge brooks was clearly pushed wide by a Japanese driver, and it was a racing incident. None of these are particularly bad on there own, but together I question the legitimacy of this event.
     
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  27. Sidawg2

    Sidawg2

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    That Toyota bias must've run out when they chose two power circuits for the first two manufacturer races.
     
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  28. Kwame

    Kwame

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    Lexus?? Or have you forgotten about the results of the first two races? BTW, i don't subscribe to the bias theory but your retort was rather weak. Also, congrats on the win. You are one calm dude given the pressure at the end of the race.
     
  29. Sidawg2

    Sidawg2

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    Lexus benefited from others battling to scoot away, in both. I imagine if you'd stuck any car in that position they'd have also shot into the distance. With the level of talent there, anybody with a 3 or 4 second lead was going to win imo. Thanks man!
     
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  30. WiseGuyTM

    WiseGuyTM

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    I’ll give you Sainte-Croix, but Sardegna? A power circuit? The gr.4 Toyota was unlucky, but it made a ton of passes during that race and got caught up in a few incidents. And the gr.3 Toyota isn’t really a “power car.” It handles well, similar pace to the Corvette. But it is a solid 5+ mph quicker without draft. Also, if you follow daily races, last week was gr.1 at Le Mans. And with the recent physics update, the Toyota went from the slowest lmp1 to the best by far, at least on that track. So Toyota does get the blessing of bop. And basing “bias” off of track selection is dumb. That would be some next level crazy if the event was rigged like that. I don’t necessarily believe the event is rigged, I just question the intent of the stewards.
     
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