"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

[breeminator]

Qualy is different from race pace everybody should know this. I’m usually actually faster in a race than qualy, for lots of others it’s the other way around.

If someone knows they are systematically poor at qualifying for some reason, then yes, I can see they might be accustomed to gaining places in a race. But for the most part I'd say qualifying times are an extremely good indicator of how fast someone is, such that it still seems bizarre to me to go into races with an expectation that you'll be able to pass anyone at all.

For example, I did a stint of 5 races, and had the same driver start 1 place behind me on the grid for 2 maybe 3 races in succession. Every time, I felt he was faster than me. Sure enough, I think it was the 5th race, he'd managed to improve his QT between the two races, and started ahead of me, where he belonged. Credit to that driver, he drove clean and never did a dirty pass of me, he addressed it the right way by improving his QT.

To me, the idea that if you start 14th you might expect to finish 8th just smacks of the "must overtake" mindset that too many people seem to have, where they think they have to get past the car in front, when in reality they aren't actually faster. I think people need to at least consider the possibility that the people ahead have set a faster QT because they're actually faster, and not feel like they have an entitlement to pass them.

I've only done 35 races in the game so far, but I've only seen one example of someone racing with a pace that was significantly out of keeping with their QT, such that I suspected they had actually got someone else to do their qualifying lap for them.

 

[Pigems]

If someone knows they are systematically poor at qualifying for some reason, then yes, I can see they might be accustomed to gaining places in a race. But for the most part I'd say qualifying times are an extremely good indicator of how fast someone is, such that it still seems bizarre to me to go into races with an expectation that you'll be able to pass anyone at all.

For example, I did a stint of 5 races, and had the same driver start 1 place behind me on the grid for 2 maybe 3 races in succession. Every time, I felt he was faster than me. Sure enough, I think it was the 5th race, he'd managed to improve his QT between the two races, and started ahead of me, where he belonged. Credit to that driver, he drove clean and never did a dirty pass of me, he addressed it the right way by improving his QT.

To me, the idea that if you start 14th you might expect to finish 8th just smacks of the "must overtake" mindset that too many people seem to have, where they think they have to get past the car in front, when in reality they aren't actually faster. I think people need to at least consider the possibility that the people ahead have set a faster QT because they're actually faster, and not feel like they have an entitlement to pass them.

I've only done 35 races in the game so far, but I've only seen one example of someone racing with a pace that was significantly out of keeping with their QT, such that I suspected they had actually got someone else to do their qualifying lap for them.

What’s the point in even racing if you’re going in expecting to start and finish in the same place? Why bother at all if that’s the mindset? We’re not professionals here and I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume that at least a person or two in front of you could make a mistake that allows for a pass to be made/position to be gained. Have you EVER done a Sport Mode race (that wasn’t all A+ drivers) where every single driver finished exactly where they started?

When I start at the back I look at the board and figure I can make it up to the place that my Q would have started me, and that’s typically where I end up by races end in a clean race.

 

[05XR8]

Thanks. This is my 16th New game. I start a new game when I get bored, to relive the "firsts", to choose a new Manufacturer and to see what cars I get as gifts, when I redo the Circuit Experiences after each update.

I had enough after the second Gr.3 race. Too much impatience mid-pack. Just uncalled for. Decided to qualify.

Nice to see you where using the M6. How is the M6 doing when it comes down to tyrewear and fuel?

The RM fronts are half worn both stints. I'm at 1.6 laps for the stop and finish with 0.2 laps. Thought it would kill me with the rear sliding(even on fresh tyres). It didn't. I just stayed smooth and didn't push the car. TCS2 and stayed in the racing line.
It's a yacht, but good car.

The Vantage is real easy, gets me 1.9 laps at the stop 0.8 laps at the finish. Just about the same tyre wear. 2:20.xxx lap times for both, M6 & Vantage. I qualified with a 2:18(M6).

I don't get it ... your stats say you've played three whole days. The victory banner above says FIRST VICTORY. So above, your first win...

... but your stats also say you've had 1,678 races and 76 wins...

I saw the first Matrix movie again the other night ... are you "THE ONE"?

The top quote answers your question. I'm certainly more like Link, just a driver.

 

[sturk0167]

I think people need to at least consider the possibility that the people ahead have set a faster QT because they're actually faster, and not feel like they have an entitlement to pass them.

Then why even have races? It sounds like you'd rather just have weekly qualifying contests. The problem is, in Sport Mode you're gonna have to race with people like me, who don't take it nearly as seriously as you do.

When I start at the back I look at the board and figure I can make it up to the place that my Q would have started me

I do the same thing. 👍

 

[breeminator]

What’s the point in even racing if you’re going in expecting to start and finish in the same place?

We'll have to define "expectation". Let's define it as something having >50% probability of happening. So, with no other information, if someone has qualified 0.1 seconds faster than me, I might estimate the probability that they are genuinely faster than me at e.g. 55%, for the sake of argument. Thus my expectation is that they are faster than me, it's more likely than them being slower than me. That doesn't mean I think they will definitely finish ahead of me and racing is pointless. But I certainly wouldn't expect to pass them, i.e. assess my probability of finishing ahead of them as >50%, I can't see any rational basis for thinking that.

Obviously if people are deliberately sandbagging in qualification to start lower than their true level, this doesn't apply, I'm talking about when people have put in their best effort in qualifying.

 

[Pigems]

We'll have to define "expectation". Let's define it as something having >50% probability of happening. So, with no other information, if someone has qualified 0.1 seconds faster than me, I might estimate the probability that they are genuinely faster than me at e.g. 55%, for the sake of argument. Thus my expectation is that they are faster than me, it's more likely than them being slower than me. That doesn't mean I think they will definitely finish ahead of me and racing is pointless. But I certainly wouldn't expect to pass them, i.e. assess my probability of finishing ahead of them as >50%, I can't see any rational basis for thinking that.

Obviously if people are deliberately sandbagging in qualification to start lower than their true level, this doesn't apply, I'm talking about when people have put in their best effort in qualifying.

I get what you’re saying, but when I start with a Q time and see the two guys ahead of me are only .5 of a second faster than my time or something similar, I’m not sitting there thinking damm, never gonna catch these guys. Some guys do 1000 hot laps to get that one magical Q time and can’t touch it in an actual race, some guys are the opposite and can’t Q well but can race really fast, many many mistakes happen in T1/L1, there are a million ways to get ahead of a guy with a faster Q time, don’t Psych yourself out of a race before ever getting started man. I’ve beaten plenty of people with better Q times and so can you!

 

[sturk0167]

We'll have to define "expectation". Let's define it as something having >50% probability of happening. So, with no other information, if someone has qualified 0.1 seconds faster than me, I might estimate the probability that they are genuinely faster than me at e.g. 55%, for the sake of argument. Thus my expectation is that they are faster than me, it's more likely than them being slower than me. That doesn't mean I think they will definitely finish ahead of me and racing is pointless. But I certainly wouldn't expect to pass them, i.e. assess my probability of finishing ahead of them as >50%, I can't see any rational basis for thinking that.

Obviously if people are deliberately sandbagging in qualification to start lower than their true level, this doesn't apply, I'm talking about when people have put in their best effort in qualifying.

I think Pigems has a dictionary. No need to dig your heels in for the expectation argument. Everyone on the track has an obligation to try to pass the car in front of them.

 

[FeloneousMonk]

If someone knows they are systematically poor at qualifying for some reason, then yes, I can see they might be accustomed to gaining places in a race. But for the most part I'd say qualifying times are an extremely good indicator of how fast someone is, such that it still seems bizarre to me to go into races with an expectation that you'll be able to pass anyone at all.

For example, I did a stint of 5 races, and had the same driver start 1 place behind me on the grid for 2 maybe 3 races in succession. Every time, I felt he was faster than me. Sure enough, I think it was the 5th race, he'd managed to improve his QT between the two races, and started ahead of me, where he belonged. Credit to that driver, he drove clean and never did a dirty pass of me, he addressed it the right way by improving his QT.

To me, the idea that if you start 14th you might expect to finish 8th just smacks of the "must overtake" mindset that too many people seem to have, where they think they have to get past the car in front, when in reality they aren't actually faster. I think people need to at least consider the possibility that the people ahead have set a faster QT because they're actually faster, and not feel like they have an entitlement to pass them.

I've only done 35 races in the game so far, but I've only seen one example of someone racing with a pace that was significantly out of keeping with their QT, such that I suspected they had actually got someone else to do their qualifying lap for them.

Qualifying is important don't get me wrong. If I can qualify high on the grid I have a better chance of a podium or at least improving my position as the race goes on. I watch F1 religiously and with the exception of Merc and Ferrari things change drastically in the mid-field with the other teams (except Williams) during the course of the race that either betters or worsens the position of the driver. Nothing is concrete when the race starts and if you aren't looking to overtake cleanly (which I do) then why race? Often sitting back and letting others battle and eventually make an error is a strategy that usually pays off. I've done 26 races and I'm no expert in the game but I've spent a lot of time as a kid timekeeping at Mosport to know how racing plays out over the course of time.

I'll be laying down a better QT tonight once I find a car that I like, I doubt that the Megane is an ideal choice on that circuit so we'll see what works later.

 

[GT5Power]

Well, my PS+ has expired and I won't be able to renew immediately. It's going to be a month and a half before I can get back on track again I've also got some other things to focus on right now. Before it ran out however, I ventured into FIA Nations on Saturday for a change! It was a bit scary landing in a lobby where my 54k DR was the lowest of the bunch, but the results were promising I think I'll chase a win there when I get back, because I feel I've got the potential.

Of course I will still be coming back to the daily races for some chill racing and relaxed chat in this thread Maybe on a second account... 💡

 

[Pigems]

Well, my PS+ has expired and I won't be able to renew immediately. It's going to be a month and a half before I can get back on track again I've also got some other things to focus on right now. Before it ran out however, I ventured into FIA Nations on Saturday for a change! It was a bit scary landing in a lobby where my 54k DR was the lowest of the bunch, but the results were promising I think I'll chase a win there when I get back, because I feel I've got the potential.

Of course I will still be coming back to the daily races for some chill racing and relaxed chat in this thread Maybe on a second account... 💡

I think you can still do Hot laps in Sport Mode without a PS+, all is not lost man. Hope you’re able to get back on the track soon!

 

[breeminator]

I get what you’re saying, but when I start with a Q time and see the two guys ahead of me are only .5 of a second faster my time or something similar, I’m not sitting there thinking damm, never gonna catch these guys. Some guys do 1000 hot laps to get that one magical Q time and can’t touch it in an actual race, some guys are the opposite and can’t Q well but can race really fast, many many mistakes happen in T1/L1, there are a million ways to get ahead of a guy with a faster Q time, don’t Psych yourself out of a race before ever getting started man. I’ve beaten plenty of people with better Q times and so can you!

I think we actually think the same way. I drive as fast as I can and try to pass whoever I can, if I can do so cleanly. I just don't start the race with an expectation of passing any cars in front, though of course I'm happy if it happens.

 

[Pigems]

I think we actually think the same way. I drive as fast as I can and try to pass whoever I can, if I can do so cleanly. I just don't start the race with an expectation of passing any cars in front, though of course I'm happy if it happens.

Ok, I can agree there, I never EXPECT to pass anyone, I only HOPE to get the chance too.

 

[SpaceMaN47y0]

Too easy to game that. If you set a deliberately slow laptime - or don't set one at all - you'll be paired with people who really are that slow, and walk it... until everyone else does that.

I totally agree with that. They could tier it by time completed, laps at each track, and yada blah they all can be gamed true. I guess its let those win at all costs win and just play for fun, because I'd rather race than win.

 

[Pigems]

What if they made Q times an average of your best 3/5 laps from a single session instead? Keep the leaderboard for fastest single lap but have the Q time for races be an average. Any system can be gamed, but would that make it harder to game at least?

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I expect to get hit at some point no matter where I start

I totally agree with that. They could tier it by time completed, laps at each track, and yada blah they all can be gamed true. I guess its let those win at all costs win and just play for fun, because I'd rather race than win.

The way the game is set up it can never match people of race pace. Race pace depends on the experience on each track, which car is used, fuel saving/tire wear conditions. It's different for every combo and also when going for a no stop vs stopping. Race pace also depends on traffic, laggy drivers, drafting better drivers. Time completed also heavily depends on getting bumped off or not.

Then even if you can somehow derive a true race pace per player per track per car, matchmaking on SR first throws it all out the window with frequent A+/S to D/S rooms.

One thing that's certainly not helping is DR resets. They are not a deterrent for the win at all cost driver, actually it's a useful tool to get easier races.

The starting order doesn't really matter anyway in a long race. A better penalty system to clean races up should be the priority as well as making it harder to get back into SR.S after frequently getting demoted.

 

[05XR8]

My goal in a race is top 10. Even if I start in the 10, I want to maintain a top 10 finish.
If a top 10 finish is out of reach, I still make a race of it and finish strong.

 

[Voodoovaj]

But A drivers don't like to be beaten by B drivers. If a B driver is playing it safe a bit, he'll hold up the A driver, who then in my experience, will touch the B driver out of the way with a lap or two to go.

This is known as being a pylon and going too slow for the driver behind you. If the B driver were actually on a proper racing line and not blocking, they'd get passed cleanly.

But an A driver should realise that driving racing lines and being a bit defensive, is part of racing. I've found A+ drivers are great. But A drivers can be as bad as anybody else.

The difference between a high A or A+ driving "defensive" and a B driving "defensive" is stark. I fully expect the person ahead of me to take a defensive line. The "defensive" line of B drivers tends to be outright blocking that slows them down as much as the person behind.

Another thing about fast B drivers - they often have an A or A+ status on one of their other accounts. That also makes them a bit wild IMO. If they were racing their top account, I reckon they'd behave themselves. However I reckon its fairly easy to pick a B status driver who has an A or A+ license in another account. Their lines are constant and fast and they don't make any significant mistakes. But they sure can be dirty IMO.

Utter nonsense. People don't have a second account so they can drive like a jerk. You don't magically become incompetent by switching account. Properly fast drivers will drive around slower drivers unless the slower driver intentionally blocks, which is what leads to those accidents you speak of. The worst is in the C races where pit strategy comes into play. I've seen B drivers on their IN lap blcok cars that have already pitted FFS. Totally pointless moves.

If someone is on their second account, it's obvious VERY quickly that they are actually of higher quality.


Actually, everything you wrote emphasizes my point. To paraphrase you, "It's not me, the B driver that's not skilled, it's everyone else. If everyone else were more skilled or less dirty, there would be no problem." Here's news for the career B drivers: It's YOU.

 

[NoStopN]

I got up to level A SR over the last couple of days. Also since then, I have had the lobby I was in freeze up almost 25% of races. Is the server acting right (no matter what the game says) or is this a good sign that my PS4 is looking to kick the bucket? Either way, it's frustrating. I tried the daily race C this week after getting slammed around race B. I have gotten times good enough to be in the top 3 (even got my first pole position) for most races. One step forward, two steps back (freezing game).

 

[O604]

Why don't they have Spectator Mode in Sports? I think it might be good because,

1) you can preview a race
2) maybe even watch the previous race while waiting for your race to start
3) having spectators maybe puts more pressure on drivers to drive clean
4) may inspire race photographers to get photos of their favorite drivers

 

[Melbourne Park]

This is known as being a pylon and going too slow for the driver behind you. If the B driver were actually on a proper racing line and not blocking, they'd get passed cleanly.



The difference between a high A or A+ driving "defensive" and a B driving "defensive" is stark. I fully expect the person ahead of me to take a defensive line. The "defensive" line of B drivers tends to be outright blocking that slows them down as much as the person behind.



Utter nonsense. People don't have a second account so they can drive like a jerk. You don't magically become incompetent by switching account. Properly fast drivers will drive around slower drivers unless the slower driver intentionally blocks, which is what leads to those accidents you speak of. ....

To paraphrase you, "It's not me, the B driver that's not skilled, it's everyone else. If everyone else were more skilled or less dirty, there would be no problem." Here's news for the career B drivers: It's YOU.

Terms such as utter nonsense are quite emotional IMO. With respect - you are being grossly unfair to B status drivers IMO.

One reason for being a B driver is because you race a fair bit, and you have a hand controller. Because you race a fair bit, you'll end up in races which don't suit the hand controller. Because the courses are so limited, its quite easy for an A speed driver to loose lots of points.

Another reason for being a B driver is because you prefer to race than qualify. Qualifying has a huge effect on your points tally. But it does not have a great effect on your track speed, at least, after a number or races. But by then, you've likely lost heaps of points. There's lots of B drivers who are middle "A" level fast. They just are simply not chasing points.

Another reason is that a B driver with A speed may drive a different car in every race. Which costs points. The innate technique is there, but the car ain't, let alone being able to optimise the car's potential. That costs points. But its fun all right and can indicate a good driver despite a B points tally.

Another reason can be internet issues. Poor connections costs points in traffic. That B driver in front who is all over the place at a critical part of the track - it may be his connection. Not the player's fault.

And I have been pushed off the track, and had hits from drivers that then cruise onto the off track area, loose a second and laugh at the penalty they've given me. In my current B status at 24,000 points. My other account is over 40,000 points. Yep - A drivers can be re-set you know. So can A+ drivers. They're still as fast as they were.

IMO second account drivers don't care nearly as much about their status or points as they do in their main account. If someone is pissing them off, they have less inhibitions. That's human nature.

But my key point is that you should not condemn B drivers. For all you know, their points tally may be 29,500. But we don't see the history of who we race at the start. Of which account drivers are using. Think about it.

Treat everyone with respect is the key. Even if the game encourages us to exploit its severe failings with who has done wrong. IMO the game encourages bad behaviour. The game intends drivers to re-set IMO. The majority of drivers have been re-set.

And if a driver is faster than the car in front - even if they are a C driver - then wait for a mistake if the track does not have obvious passing places. And if the driver is good around those passing places - such as an entry to a main straight - then treat them with respect, and take a point penalty at the end of the race. Respecting all drivers is more important than points scores IMO. All drivers deserve that respect IMO.

 

[Pigems]

So, the 38 second laps at Interlagos go from #20ish to #240ish, and here I was thinking my 39.2 was good for something lol. I just can’t seem to get a handle on this track for some reason.

Edit: The biggest problem with being patient with a slower car in front of you isn’t the car in front most times, it’s the cars catching you from behind because you’re being patient and going slower. Then they push you out of the way/off the track because you’re waiting patiently for you’re chance to pass the guy in front of you. So that makes people be less patient with the guy in front too, basically there’s way to many variables going on to make any kind of blanket statements about any of it.

 

[Veinz]

So, the 38 second laps at Interlagos go from #20ish to #240ish, and here I was thinking my 39.2 was good for something lol. I just can’t seem to get a handle on this track for some reason.

It’s so hard to get every corner right and string a good lap together. I made the biggest gains at the first and last corner.

 

[MaxAttack]

So, the 38 second laps at Interlagos go from #20ish to #240ish, and here I was thinking my 39.2 was good for something lol. I just can’t seem to get a handle on this track for some reason.

I'm up in the 40s somewhere in the gtr, had 2 runs at with decent gains in both, 15th to 8th in the second. Bad at qualifying, just overdrive the crap out of whatever car i try, found the gtr very forgiving, able to survive punts and multiple intentional torpedos from the gentleman in the lambo. I won't mention his flag. Actually enjoying this race more than i thought, have struggled here in the past but i am clearly quicker than my q time shows so will try and improve that tomorrow.

Race C, well, it's scary. Took one run, Qualified 9th and finished 9th, which does not tell the whole story (ft1 kn mediums).

 

[NoStopN]

So, the 38 second laps at Interlagos go from #20ish to #240ish, and here I was thinking my 39.2 was good for something lol. I just can’t seem to get a handle on this track for some reason.

Interlagos is one of my worst tracks. That's one reason why I walked away from this week's B race to try the C race. I'm kind of glad I did. I've had more fun (& success) at Kyoto vs. Interlagos.

 

[Veinz]

It was my last day off so I binged Race B this morning and this evening. Current best qualy time is a 38.2. I know I have a high 37 somewhere verrrry deep down inside of me if I can ever string everything together.

In the morning it was a little dull since they’re really isn't a whole lot of people online at that time on a weekday. But in the evening I got thrown into lobbies with turismo, ORMA and other very fast people and it was awesome. One small mistake and you were done.

Needless to say I got my ass handed to me.

 

[AUTISTICBOYX]

It’s so hard to get every corner right and string a good lap together. I made the biggest gains at the first and last corner.

I'd say those are key corners. At the last corner I found it useful to shift the weight to the right before turning in to achieve a slingshot effect (for the lack of a better description) to maximize the speed uphill and onto the straight. The first corner you need to have a perfect turn-in and be bold on the throttle.

 

[YoBuck]

I find that my race pace is slower due to traffic, however I do very well at overtaking people when the opportunity presents itself. I'm patient and if I qualify midfield I can usually move up due to overtaking opportunities or waiting for others to battle and subsequently making mistakes. With that being said if I'm low in the grid I'm realistic with my expectations and know that the chances of me making the top five are slim.

It's amazing to see how external pressure adversely affects people (including myself) during a race.

Consistent lapping. It’s what 80% lack.

 

[Pigems]

I got my Interlagos time down to 1:38.7 in the Lambo, there was still a bunch of a small mistakes in there but it’s the highest I’ve ever gotten on an Interlagos board before(inside the top 200). But finding another 1.3 second is gonna be tough.

Excellent lap @MattJones_e36 , very well done man!!

On another note, I saw this a few minutes ago at the gas station and thought you guys might enjoy it.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I tried race C again, quit in lap 7 to vent here.
I'm getting really annoyed with the penalty system on this track.

Dive bomb pass, intentional or not, race over, SR Down, 'overtake' successful.

Qualifying won't even help since it started with the 'fast' guys falling to the back from whatever bumping and shunting was going on up front, which led to impatient drivers forcing their way back through the field. I can't remember the last contact free race anymore, bump to pass.

One more try, 9pm race. Should normally be clean, but well so far this week, contact free racing does not exist anymore.


Finally! Sure I got rammed off and bumped multiple times. But for most of the race I had an awesome close clean battle with an S/S driver, swapping positions a couple times. (He got rammed off so ended up behind me again). Side by side through multiple corners, it's still possible. Fun race. Started 20th, finished 10th. Now I'm going to be stupidly optimistic and try another race.

Another pretty good race, finished 10th again. Plenty bumpers, but also some respectful clean drivers. I'm guilty of a few bumps myself, without consequences luckily. I'll increase my distance when I accidentally make contact and wait for a better opportunity. Enough for today. Later in the evening race craft does still improve.

 

[sturk0167]

I tried race C again, quit in lap 7 to vent here.
I'm getting really annoyed with the penalty system on this track.

Dive bomb pass, intentional or not, race over, SR Down, 'overtake' successful.

Qualifying won't even help since it started with the 'fast' guys falling to the back from whatever bumping and shunting was going on up front, which led to impatient drivers forcing their way back through the field. I can't remember the last contact free race anymore, bump to pass.

One more try, 9pm race. Should normally be clean, but well so far this week, contact free racing does not exist anymore.

They don't like your car. Switch brands.