"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

  • Thread starter Thread starter LordDrift
  • 79,453 comments
  • 1,371,361 views
Status
Not open for further replies.
Guys, keep in mind that brake balance in GTS goes beyond that. It's also ballast. Changing BB affects the car handling under braking as well as acceleration. Just be aware that putting BB towards the front can have a negative effect on front tire wear due to the extra weight at the front.

Are you sure about the brake balance moving weight around in the car? I have never heard that before, are you sure you got that from a reliable source??
 
Are you sure about the brake balance moving weight around in the car? I have never heard that before, are you sure you got that from a reliable source??
I think he's talking about how weight shifts on braking. If we have, let's say, a BB of -5, on a car with a wright distribution of 50:50, when we brake really hard intertia would shift that weight balance to 65:35. But if we adjust BB to +5, that shift of weight balance could be 55:45 instead of 65:35. Having more weight at the front under braking means more tire load, which is bad for tire wear and for trail braking
 
@fastone371 @Alpha Cipher I am not referring to weight shift under braking and then hitting the gas. I am talking about it affecting the car's ability to exit turns, during and long after the apex. It is most noticeable with 4WD and FWD cars. They really power out of the turns with BB forward because of the extra weight. Try it. You will also find it increases tire wear on the front tires in 4WD since the extra weight is allowing the front drivetrain to lay down more power.
 
@fastone371 @Alpha Cipher I am not referring to weight shift under braking and then hitting the gas. I am talking about it affecting the car's ability to exit turns, during and long after the apex. It is most noticeable with 4WD and FWD cars. They really power out of the turns with BB forward because of the extra weight. Try it. You will also find it increases tire wear on the front tires in 4WD since the extra weight is allowing the front drivetrain to lay down more power.
Wait, sorry I can't make sense of it. Can you elaborate further?
 
Wait, sorry I can't make sense of it. Can you elaborate further?

The best thing would be for you to experience it for yourself. Take the Gr. 4 WRX to Dragon Trail - Gardens. Run a few laps with 5 to the rear and then a few laps with 5 to the front. Take note in turn 1 and in the cuadruple-apex right hander how differently the car handles under acceleration. Especially in turn 1, you can tell with BB all the way forward you can really power out of that turn, but with it all the way to the back you need to take a sharper line to avoid understeering off the track. BB should only affect understeer and oversteer under braking. It should not have any influence whatsoever under acceleration beyond a split-second weight-shift effect when lifting off the brake pedal.

Being that the WRX is so bad on tire wear, believe me, I spent hours during the FIA seasons trying to find a way to get the car to be fast while at the same time easy on tires. That's how I discovered this, and it applies to all cars, though in the RWDs it is less pronounced.
 
Im driving 1:35:627 at Yamagiwa II for Race B in the Jaguar and I'm working hard. Can you look at my driving here and see if I can improve somewhere?
My struggles are in turn 2 and 3 as well as in the last turn were I have not decided how tight I have to go.

 
After not racing yesterday I figured I could at least check out the races this week.

Race A was a destruction derby. I started 10th (practiced a bit yet reset before qualifying) got a car punted into me in T1, survived that, got another car punted into me in T3 and went off track spun around. Re-entered way behind, managed to pass one car and finished 11th, SR intact at least.

Race C then. I practiced the same way, not qualifying and not getting much more out of it than a wobbly 1:12 anyway. So the race loads, SR.S and SR.A in the room DR.A to DR.D, I'm the only A+ starting last. Well no more A+ after that. What a joke that race is with a little bit of lag involved. The cars behave so unnaturally it's impossible to concentrate while driving behind someone. I didn't do better than 1:12 in race, got lapped in the final lap, finished 9th, back to DR.A.

I figured one more, matchmaking should be able to do better at prime time. @NosOsH was in my second race, which he comfortably won. However you did not lap me, you can do better :cheers: It was still a Dr.A to DR.D room, at least all SR.S this time. Not that that was any better. First couple laps were a mess. Then at the end I get accused of punting someone off. I check my footage, turns out the guy accusing me, bumped me off the road in T3, coming from behind bumped me twice into the sand. I never hit anyone, I take pride in avoiding people! I passed him in lap 1 when he was way out in T2, probably bumped off by another Canadian. They always get me in trouble.

I managed to get my lap time down to 1:11 in the second race. However I'm not enjoying the track, not enjoying the car, speed alone is not enough to keep me going. Detroit and Astrobot are waiting for me. Hopefully better races next week.
 
@fastone371 @Alpha Cipher I am not referring to weight shift under braking and then hitting the gas. I am talking about it affecting the car's ability to exit turns, during and long after the apex. It is most noticeable with 4WD and FWD cars. They really power out of the turns with BB forward because of the extra weight. Try it. You will also find it increases tire wear on the front tires in 4WD since the extra weight is allowing the front drivetrain to lay down more power.

It increases the tire wear because you're pushing. What's pushing? Your fronts are skidding laterally across the track because you're asking your fronts to +power, +turn, and +carry the braking load

Maybe this works for you, and I respect that, and thats fine. but if any cars need a rearward BB, it's AWD cars.

my 2 cents.
 
The best thing would be for you to experience it for yourself. Take the Gr. 4 WRX to Dragon Trail - Gardens. Run a few laps with 5 to the rear and then a few laps with 5 to the front. Take note in turn 1 and in the cuadruple-apex right hander how differently the car handles under acceleration. Especially in turn 1, you can tell with BB all the way forward you can really power out of that turn, but with it all the way to the back you need to take a sharper line to avoid understeering off the track. BB should only affect understeer and oversteer under braking. It should not have any influence whatsoever under acceleration beyond a split-second weight-shift effect when lifting off the brake pedal.

Being that the WRX is so bad on tire wear, believe me, I spent hours during the FIA seasons trying to find a way to get the car to be fast while at the same time easy on tires. That's how I discovered this, and it applies to all cars, though in the RWDs it is less pronounced.
Aight, imma try this when I get back home :)

Im driving 1:35:627 at Yamagiwa II for Race B in the Jaguar and I'm working hard. Can you look at my driving here and see if I can improve somewhere?
My struggles are in turn 2 and 3 as well as in the last turn were I have not decided how tight I have to go.


I use km/h, so it'll be a bit hard to give specific advice. But I noticed that when you brake, you keep a bit of gas. While this could be helpful in balancing the car, especially if it's loose under braking, try to lift completely when you're still braking in a straight line. It would help shorten your braking distances a bit more, which as it stands is already pretty good. You've got an idea of where to brake already, you juet gotta shorten it a little bit more. You can still apply a bit of gas when braking, though you'll want to do it when you're already starting to turn

For turns 1-3, your exits were very conservative. You can definitely power out earlier than you currently are. In T4 (the hairpin) however, the opposite happens. You didn't overcook your braking point, but rather you lifted the brakes a little too early and powered down before the apex. That gave you a really wide exit and you weren't able to fully apply the throttle until well after the exit of the turn

For Turns 5-7, I honestly don't know how well you did there, since while it does look messy, you maintained a consistent speed and didn't seem to lose much time from the wiggles. In terms of km/h, I lift a bit just before Turn 5, hitting the apex at ~210 km/h, where I then brake and try to maintain a speed in between 140-145km/h through turns 6-7. If your mph speed matches that, then I think you've got it right :)

For Turn 8, the entry speed was too fast, compromising the exit. Rather than braking in the middle of the turn, brake ever so slightly on the part where you lift, and then gently drop your speed to what's the mph equivalent of 180 km/h. From there the corner will widen up, and you can power out while still being able to tighten your line and hit that late apex.

I can't give advice after that, sorry :( I'm struggling in that sector as well
 
Im driving 1:35:627 at Yamagiwa II for Race B in the Jaguar and I'm working hard. Can you look at my driving here and see if I can improve somewhere?
My struggles are in turn 2 and 3 as well as in the last turn were I have not decided how tight I have to go.



Best thing you can do is to get rid of those aids (no pun intended) and learn how to drive without them. You'll be slower at the beginning but it's the only way you'll get faster and improve your driving skills in the future. If you're on a controller, you can start by driving only with TCS on 1 and when you're good with that, turn it off and practice with only CSA on weak. After that, it's only ABS.

That's what I recommend, as someone who played with a controller from GT1 until GT6 and was the fastest in my country on a pad. I have a wheel now but the process was the same when I got it. TCS, then CSA and now ABS only most of the time (I use TCS on 1 with high tire wear or when I'm on a lobby having fun and I'm a bit tired already).
 
There are a lot of people who are good with controllers.....I'm just not one of them. I think it'll help me with consistency if anything as well as making it way easier to manual shift. I know you can do it with a controller but thats just waaaaay too much going on for me. Not to mention there's a lot of places on the track that I need to be a gear lower but auto transmission forces me into another gear

I changed to manual very soon after starting to play GT3. I got sick of it taking too long to get going again after my many departures from the track :lol:. It's also very handy as a last ditch effort to stay on the track being able to drop gears quickly. I used to race RC buggies, so using the sticks for throttle/braking and steering was normal for me. R/L 2 for gear changes is much less of a strain on my fingers than R/L 1, which is what I used on the PS2.
 
It increases the tire wear because you're pushing. What's pushing? Your fronts are skidding laterally across the track because you're asking your fronts to +power, +turn, and +carry the braking load

Maybe this works for you, and I respect that, and thats fine. but if any cars need a rearward BB, it's AWD cars.

my 2 cents.

I understand what you're saying with 4WD preference, but you misread me. With BB front the car does not push. It is a rocketship out of the turns. The increased weight on the front axle gives it more FWD pulling out of the turns and hence more wear. I get much less front tire wear with BB to the back.
 
How close you want it?


DpH6FU2WsAEUbmg


DpH6NeXWkAUJ5BY
 
we barely see a GR3/yamagiwa anymore but they had to put the reverse one , way to troll us trollypony again
In terms of penalties, it is my worst track by a long shot.
 
I actually like reverse Yamagiwa. 5 wins already since Monday, finally got to 91 career wins yesterday evening.

The last section is so damn nice when you nail it. You carry so much speed into the downhill esses, feels amazing.
 
I actually like reverse Yamagiwa. 5 wins already since Monday, finally got to 91 career wins yesterday evening.

The last section is so damn nice when you nail it. You carry so much speed into the downhill esses, feels amazing.
I seem to enjoy this version as well, though it might just be that I enjoy driving the NSX but I've had good fun so far.

Anyways, I tried out race C on Monday evening. Managed to get a 1:07.6 which put me P2 on the grid. What followed was probably my worst race winning performance, I was genuinely all over the shop. I went with a 0 stop as I wasn't sure on strategy, was surprised that everyone that did pit, came in on lap 9 rather than 8 given that there is no refuelling and got lucky at the end as the 2 guys in front both binned it on worn tyres.

 
Is it necessary to abuse track limits to get that kind of pace in race C? I'm waaayyyy off...

Edit - sorry should have watched your video, I just suck then!
 
I was kinda anxious to claw my way back to SR/S, so I was going to do Race Bs and try to avoid the very dirty driving I'd been seeing. Sadly Race B was some way away from being ready to enter, Race C was a green light, so against my better judgement I entered. It was Race C that dropped me from SR/S to SR/B in a single race. My last Race C didn't net me much more than Race B. Anyhoo, I was placed P10/17 on a grid of every DR and SR. I hardly see many Aussies when I was SR 99. I found out where they all went :lol:.

The race gets underway and I'm being careful to avoid contact. Very hard when everyone tries to cram into T1 at the same time :crazy:. At one stage I was up to P5, but that was because cars were coming off the track. Sadly I'm too cautious in certain places because I've come off in previous races there. My guess is I'm not making full use of the aero. I'd see a decent gap behind me, then watch as it starts to shrink with the passing laps. I think I only saw two orange SRs, and didn't incur any SR's that carried a time penalty. I did pick up a couple of track penalties (I think I was the only one who was trying to stick to the track boundaries who got any :rolleyes:.).

Pitted lap 10 for tyres and continued on. Lost some more places and finished P9.

Final result, SR went up 12, DR went up a few hundred. Another day above DR 1 :dopey:.
 
I think he's talking about how weight shifts on braking. If we have, let's say, a BB of -5, on a car with a wright distribution of 50:50, when we brake really hard intertia would shift that weight balance to 65:35. But if we adjust BB to +5, that shift of weight balance could be 55:45 instead of 65:35. Having more weight at the front under braking means more tire load, which is bad for tire wear and for trail braking

I never really considered that in a video game. In real world life your brake balance only changes how much pressure goes to the front vs the rear, even though you may make a big adjustment it is actually pretty minute unless there is something very wrong with your car. Brake balance should affect dynamic weight transfer very, very little, it's kind of like shock adjustment, you are not adjusting dynamic weight transfer with shocks just how quickly that transfer happens and mainly what the the suspension does under roll conditions. Even if you had no front braking at all the car would still transfer weight to the front end under braking. The only cars I typically make wholesale brake balance changes on are N class FF's because they seem to always lock the rears horribly so I move BB forward to stabilize the car under braking and shorten stopping distance. I will have to try large BB adjustments in a GR 3 or 4 4wd car and see what happens, it sounds interesting.
 
Amazed at the times guys are churning in race B, I am a low B driver and damn, I am seeing a lot of B's a solid 1 to 2 seconds faster than I am.

Not a horrible track but TBH it's another that really is tough to race on, the constant esses and awkward downhill sections make for difficult side by side racing.

Why is there no delete option?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wasn't going to push my luck after a fairly fruitful Race C, but I did race B anyway. The extra 12 SR made a difference to race matching. This time there was a mix of SR/A and B. DR was a mix of DR/B, D and a couple of Es. I started P10/13 and finished P8. The guy who got me in the end and finished P7 started at the back. I would have beat him if I hadn't mowed the lawn on the exit to one of the fast corners. All in all it seemed cleaner. I finished with no penalties and I don't recall seeing any orange SRs. All in all not a bad result.

Not sure where I stood with DR. I'm guessing +/- 20 from where I was after the previous race. SR went up another 5 so now I'm SR/A :D.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Qyn
So that I can be notified that you quoted me and then be left wondering what it was you had actually said :lol:

It's the double post police, seriously this forum is run like an army base.

I was going to ask about the effect of BB on acceleration, if this is true it's a real PITA because i use Bb to invoke turn in but if it hurts acceleration (understeer) then I am a bit miffed.
 
It's the double post police, seriously this forum is run like an army base.

I was going to ask about the effect of BB on acceleration, if this is true it's a real PITA because i use Bb to invoke turn in but if it hurts acceleration (understeer) then I am a bit miffed.
You edit a post and say double post, say something else or just put dots in
 
It's the double post police, seriously this forum is run like an army base.

I was going to ask about the effect of BB on acceleration, if this is true it's a real PITA because i use Bb to invoke turn in but if it hurts acceleration (understeer) then I am a bit miffed.

All I'm saying is that I am 100% sure that brake balance affects the overall balance of the car more than which brakes are getting more braking force. It is glaringly obvious on just about every car. Last night doing some qualy and a few Daily Bs with the Genesis and it is remarkable how differently the car behaves coming out of the corners depending on BB. All the way to the back and it pushes like crazy both on turn-in and exit. All the way to the front and it's much more responsive in both cases, even when not braking (just lifting).

Either PD has completely lost the plot with how brake balance works, or it is indeed something else (ballast in my opinion) and they should re-label the setting. Under no circumstances should brake balance influence the overall balance of the car at any moment except when pressing the brake pedal.

It would be nice to get some feedback from others on this as I am starting to think I better put a tin foil hat decal on my helmet.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back