demo physics discussion

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Bekimche
lol speaking of top gear, they should do another "Game vs Reality" challenge like they did with the NSX when the full game comes out
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Oh that comparison... Since when they compare NSX in GT4 with Slicks vs NSX in real life With stocks in Laguna Seca? 10sec off minimal.
 
RedBaron
Only need to fix things that are obviously wrong and should every real FR driver snap into the face. I would be completely happy if there are only few things fixed in full GT5:

- Fix that abrupt and not progressive oversteer physics and make it more controllable during slide (370Z is not any '85 Porsche Turbo)

- Fix that tyre model which is wrongly pretending that slicks are more friendly on the limit than road tyres.

- Better equip all road cars at purchase with appropriate tyres corresponding with real car!
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If they fix all that you are talking about, that will be another NFS. You are offering to fix the most realistic aspects of the game. I would recommend to drive the real car first, before making such a statements
 
krisa9977
If they fix all that you are talking about, that will be another NFS. You are offering to fix the most realistic aspects of the game. I would recommend to drive the real car first, before making such a statements
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Don't talk about NFS please. Little bit realistic were the first and the fifth issues, other are hopeless and had almost nothing common with car behaviour.

You are just kidding, aren't you? Uncontrollable slides with real toy car like 370Z, racing slicks more friendly than road tyres, road cars equiped with wrong tyres at purchase, all this you call "most realistic"? What kind of faerytale you bring me next time? I feel that square tyres would be perfect next candidate for "most realistic aspect" too. They would be surely great for making game yet more difficult than reality is.
 
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RedBaron
Don't talk about NFS please. Little bit realistic were the first and the fifth issues, other are hopeless and had almost nothing common with car behaviour.

You are just kidding, aren't you? Uncontrollable slides with real toy car like 370Z, racing slicks more friendly than road tyres, road cars equiped with wrong tyres at purchase, all this you call "most realistic"? What kind of faerytale you bring me next time? I feel that square tyres would be perfect next candidate for "most realistic aspect" too. They would be surely great for making game yet more difficult than reality is.
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Until you loose traction, it is easier to control high HP RWD car with slicks, then the same kind of car with street tires (it is much easier to me in real life). Once you lost traction, it is close to impossible to safe it. High hp car with street tires is very difficult to control, because you have too much power in the rear and don't have enough traction. But if you lost control of your street car, you still have a chance to safe it.

I race different type of cars with different tires at Nurburgring and also work as an instructor at one of the racing schools in United States. I have an idea about car behavior at its limit with different types of tires.
This is me: :) http://www.ringpics.info/index.php?page=showcar&year=2009&car=496
 
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G.T.Ace
I love having real race drivers in these discussions. :)
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+1 👍 atleast they have some real experience to compare with. I have not that real racing experience, but gt5d does FEEL quite real to me, wich is what matters to me :)
 
This is me: http://www.ringpics.info/index.php?p...r=2009&car=496
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It doesn't look like you! ;)

I honestly believe driving these racing sims is so different from driving IRL that trying to make direct comparisons is a bit meaningless. I don't think any RL race driver is going to jump onto GT5, or any other PC or console sim & think: "yes, that's just what it's like!" I suspect that they will find it quite unlike RL driving at first, & will take some time to adjust to the different sensory inputs that the game provides.

Having said all that I like the physics of GT5D quite a lot, but would still like to see more FFB information through the wheel & a better sense of speed through an increased field of vision.

I just went back to playing SCC after about 10 hours with the GT5TT. I don't know if the physics in SCC are more accurate than G5D's - probably not - but the sense of actually physically driving is greater, & the physics are pretty demanding & complex, so overall, in spite of the sub-standard graphics, I find it a more satisfying experience. In comparison GT5D seems somehow more detached & cerebral.
 
I like the new physics a lot, feels better to me than 5P :D

Car feels more connected to the track, Can feel the weight shift even more now, FFB is stonger than in GT5P, Im using 2 now, where as I use 5 in GT5P.

Cant wait for GT5

👍
 
Biggles
It doesn't look like you! ;)
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This is my first VLN race. I did a lots of laps in GT4 and may be 10-15 laps in real live before entering this race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeYta7kWvSI


By my fourth race, I qualified third and had podium finish.

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If I had an opportunity to practice using GT5 track and physics like Kaz had, I'm sure I could've been even faster.
 
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Does anyone think the massive increase in steering force feedback when trying to counter steer an oversteer in the time trial is realistic?
No other game does that, not even iRacing, so I dunno....
 
krisa9977
This is my first VLN race. I did a lots of laps in GT4 and may be 10-15 laps in real live before entering this race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeYta7kWvSI


By my fourth race, I qualified third and had podium finish.

11.jpg


If I had an opportunity to practice using GT5 track and physics like Kaz had, I'm sure I could've been even faster.
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To be fair to you I thought you drove that very well, very forward on the throttle, very well thought out lines and confident braking. You approached Bergwerk bang in the middle of the road solidly braking for a tight apex exactly how I would in the game and the short shift on the exit looked intentional. Good stuff.
 
davissi
To be fair to you I thought you drove that very well, very forward on the throttle, very well thought out lines and confident braking. You approached Bergwerk bang in the middle of the road solidly braking for a tight apex exactly how I would in the game and the short shift on the exit looked intentional. Good stuff.
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But unfortunately it is way too slow in this video :indiff:
Next race I was 20 seconds faster, but I didn't have a case cam in my car. All I did, I practiced a little more in GT4 :D

Seriously, I think that driving GT4 you can safe tons of time and money, memorizing the track such as Nurburgring, with GT5 physics you actually can practice how to drive the car as well.
 
It's funny, and this is just my opinion. I think someone can take the knowledge and experience (if you wanna call it that) from playing a game such as GT and put it more torwards driving a real car as opposed to an experienced driver using his knowledge of RL in a video game to be a fast driver...initially. Obviously once the experienced driver learns how the game works he would more than likely achieve cleaner faster laps. This is just a thought i've had and haven't really looked much into, and it more than likely varies for everyone.
 
Next race I was 20 seconds faster, but I didn't have a case cam in my car. All I did, I practiced a little more in GT4
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I would imagine it was still a very different experience from driving in GT4 where you could push as hard as you like & then just hit the restart button if you had an "incident". ;)

One of the things that makes video game racing "unrealistic" is not just the lack of consequences, but the fact that it's possible to run hundreds of practice laps on a given course, something that few RL racers would get to do.
 
I know some real good race drivers who are terrible in Sim racing and also I met good sim racers who were really bad at real live racing. It's not always works, but majority of good sim racers doing very good in real live. Lucas Ordonez is very good example.

I probably have less sim racing experience in this forum then anybody else, but I have a lot of real live track time. Playing for couple hours in GT5 Demo I was able to get into top 50 in United States.
 
Biggles
One of the things that makes video game racing "unrealistic" is not just the lack of consequences, but the fact that it's possible to run hundreds of practice laps on a given course, something that few RL racers would get to do.
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Yes, there are a lots of factors that make sim racing and real racing experience different. I think that it is clear to any reasonable person. We are talking about game physics. I think that it is very accurate comparing to real live driving and GT5 could be very good tool for real race drivers to practice their driving skills
 
krisa9977
Until you loose traction, it is easier to control high HP RWD car with slicks, then the same kind of car with street tires (it is much easier to me in real life). Once you lost traction, it is close to impossible to safe it. High hp car with street tires is very difficult to control, because you have too much power in the rear and don't have enough traction. But if you lost control of your street car, you still have a chance to safe it.
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Yes! In fact we are talking about the same thing which is missing in the game. You surely know how street cars like E46 or Z-Nissans are controllable, in fact you could drift any roundabout with E46 many times around. Such cars are born for fun! Some slides here and there are just daily things for them, but in the game that serial Z bites like '85 Porsche on the limit while tuned car is much more controllable then. And that's the only thing wrong with the new physics, otherwise I like it very much.
 
I do not know how it is on other countries but we have nice bit of snow in Finland and everybody with a rwd car and under 50 years of age is drifting for fun :) I have driven on ice(with spikes), snow and on gravel and i know drifting in those at least in quite easy when you get hang of it. New demo just does not give me enough feedback for drifting or something in the physics is tuned bit wrong.

When i was younger we used to go to watch over the tight turns and waited some rwd cars to go around it sideways :) (drifting was not even made into western public yet)
 
I think th TC is killing the drifting on the GT5D on the standard car. You have to "overpower" the TC to get the back out at which point you've gone too far LOL you can't get that slow progresive slide going as you have to throw it in to go past the TC's range. I have the same thing with my E46 and it's TC and stability control. Using the "super secret" (not) button press to completly disable it makes things much more fun LOL
 
CoolColJ
Does anyone think the massive increase in steering force feedback when trying to counter steer an oversteer in the time trial is realistic?
No other game does that, not even iRacing, so I dunno....
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Yes, particularly with understeer - the steering should go light and it doesn't.
 
FFB sytem does not use real force calculation from physics. Steering should go lighter when front wheel lose grip. Also when front tyres do have a grip and car oversteers, FFB should turn the wheel as tyres are in the same postition but car's body is turning. These should be no.1 things to fix for the final version.

EDIT: PD. When you have acknowledged these issues, please tell us so that we can talk something else :)
 
my steering dose go light with loss of traction at front end but is very subtle, could do with a tad more enthesis but the wheel "counter steering" automaticaly with oversteer works fine? I'm using the DF GT......could it be an issue with your wheel or your FFB settings Raitziger? As for the TC on the standard car not working when you use a wheel....I find it dose, though again it's not hugely intrusive set at the (unchangeable) level 7 (I think it's 7) it's there just dosn't take much to over power it, just enough however to unsettle the cars balance when you do LOL

I'm a little confused by the TC on the 370 though, in my e46 you have 3 settings, full, sport and off. on full and sport it lets you get X amount out of shape THEN kicks in......where as on GT it keeps engaged UNTIL you get so far out of shape then turns off? seems to work backwards or my BMW's working backward LOL I may be getting a little confused however as my e46 has STC linked to the TC so it's more pronounced than just the TC on the 370.......hope you followed that lot LOL
 
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i get way better feedback with my G27 in this GT5 TT then GT5P. what i did was turn my feedback down to 3 with this i can feel more movement through out the wheel with 3 then 10 i think 10 is to high and the wheel fights itself. with 3 the wheel is much smoother and you can feel the weight shift hope this helps. drifting a stock car with TCS on is a no no 👍
 
Ok thanks for you two :) I will adjust settings lower next time.
LOL i said this to other person some time ago(i should have listened myself) :
"If FFB is too high, everything feels the same and there is no difference in effects; all feel strong. Proper setting is set up so that harder effects just hit the max force wheel can give. With that setting you have nice variety in effects and all of them are not hitting the limiters or max force wheel can give. "
 
Theres certainly a lot of adjustment you can make to get it right for your personal preferances.....anyway you should e out skiing in this fine weather, not in playing on the PS3 LOL
 
After playing the TT demo since it came out I booted up GT5P again yesterday and I could have sworn that I was playing standard mode and not pro. In pro with all aids off and abs 1 I was a full 2 seconds faster then I was 2 weeks ago before the demo. Now GT5P seems like an arcade racer compared to the TT demo! does anyone else feel the same? I can not wait for GT5!
 
cletus 669
After playing the TT demo since it came out I booted up GT5P again yesterday and I could have sworn that I was playing standard mode and not pro. In pro with all aids off and abs 1 I was a full 2 seconds faster then I was 2 weeks ago before the demo. Now GT5P seems like an arcade racer compared to the TT demo! does anyone else feel the same? I can not wait for GT5!
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I feel the same
 
cletus 669
After playing the TT demo since it came out I booted up GT5P again yesterday and I could have sworn that I was playing standard mode and not pro. In pro with all aids off and abs 1 I was a full 2 seconds faster then I was 2 weeks ago before the demo. Now GT5P seems like an arcade racer compared to the TT demo! does anyone else feel the same? I can not wait for GT5!
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I haven't gone back to GT5P yet, and probably won't, but I will agree that being forced to race with pro physics, while daunting at first, was a good thing. I'm still slow as a snail compared to most, but it is fun trying, and rewarding as hell when you fly out of that last bend and see your best ghost lap in your wake! Still, I've improved by a consistent 3 seconds over where I used to be, and after watching a few replays on YouTube, I can see both where my line is not right and the limitations of my pad control are hindering me.

I'm sure too, like people have said on here already, that playing this kind of game really can teach you to learn the actual track and be faster in real life. The reverse will also be true of skilled racers being pretty good at this kind of game, but one is not a substitute for the other. GT5 is still a game, and driving a real car IS different! Both take skill, and both have different challenges.
 

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