With all due pardon to those that know the sequence of events already, what's the point of doing the raid if you already know what to do despite never having actually done it before? The entire point of it is to learn through a series of frustration and perhaps rage. Being prepared for what might lie ahead is one thing, knowing every single thing that's going to happen and you've never even partook in the event is something else entirely.
That's fine. If you want to do it where you have to discover everything yourself, great. Get together with a group of people who want to do the same thing and do it that way. Have fun with your 8+ hours of grinding on the fights, and play the game the way you want to. I have nothing against it whatsoever, as long as I don't get forced into doing it because you're the only person in the raid group that want's to do it that way and you refuse to prepare. That's when it's an issue.
If you're doing it with people who all want to do it like they're the first ones to do it, great. Do that. If you're with a group of random people who all want to do the raid, the least you can do is make sure you're not a hindrance to the rest of the group and do a little research. When you're inviting people from the Tower to do the raid, if you want to do it like you're the world first, be up front about it. Don't get a group together, start the raid, and then cause hundreds of wipes for people who are just trying to get through the content for the loot because you want to 'learn it' like there's no other way. That's when it gets frustrating.
The VoG is hard. It's like nothing else in any shooter I've ever played. If you've played WoW, or other MMOs, you probably have an idea of what to expect. If you've played shooters, and think it's going to be like a difficult level in a shooter, you're wrong, and you're going to fail. A lot. Again, I have no problem with people forming groups and tackling it however they see fit to do so. What I have a problem with is people who make groups to 'do the raid quick' and have no idea what it is or how to do it, because it takes forever and simply isn't fun to die over and over because one or two people cant get their act together.
I would say that honestly, if you're not a fairly hardcore progression raid group that's done this sort of thing before, it would be nearly impossible to do the VoG without at least looking at a guide. Especially with a group of randoms from the Bungie forums or from Tower invites. The coordination and communication alone makes it hard with randoms, and that with half the group having an excellent understanding of the mechanics. A whole group of randoms who had no idea what was supposed to be happening would never be able to finish it.*
At times, the internet, as a convenience, takes every fundamental aspect of 'the unknown' away and leaves you with something that you don't quite know what to do with. Whenever I find myself finally doing it I'll only have a fundamental understanding and nothing more.
A fundamental understanding would be 100% better than what most people have.
While I agree that the internet has done away with mystery in a lot of ways, I would say that for this it isn't a bad thing. For people like you, who want to be surprised, you still can be. Get a group together with the express purpose of doing the VoG that way and have a blast. Meanwhile, the people who just want to do it and be able to complete it in a decent time, and want to see the content and do the fights, they can look up guides and be a little bit prepared for what they're going to face. That way, when they have to impose themselves onto other people in order to do the raid, they aren't the guy dragging the whole group down.
The most fun I've had, by far playing the raid was the first time I tried it and had really no clue at all what was going on. We had 1 person that had done it and he guided us a little. I think the first time took us about 3 hot all together.
So people are like this. Some people are not. My idea of fun isn't wiping on the same fight 20 times because people have no idea what to do. Wiping 20 times at all is terrible, but that many just to figure a fight out, and then wiping more after that because of mistakes once we figured out what to do...? No thanks. I'd rather only wipe to mistakes, because you get plenty of wipes from that alone.
Having that one guy guiding you helped you out a lot though I'd be willing to bet, because after only a few wipes at each stage he was able to explain to each person which aspect of the mechanics had killed them, and you could go from there to formulate a strategy. That's fine, if you find someone patient enough to be that 1 guy teaching everyone else. Most people aren't.
Out of curiosity, what was your Raid Group makeup? 3 hours for the first time isn't bad at all, and I suspect that part of that was down to group makeup, but I could be wrong.
I honestly wouldn't advise anyone to get the ice breaker and cheese their first time through any of the raid. It would ruin the entire experience. I'm too the point now I just want to run through out and make it easy but if o had me players in the game I would want them to experience it the way it's meant to be.
I don't really think that Ice Breaker helps you cheese any of the fights (now that the Templard platforms got kill volumes at least) it just helps with ammo. It's more of a quality-of-life thing than it is an easy-or-hard thing. It lets you keep your DPS up in the longer stretches, because you can use Ice Breaker while you wait for the auto-synthesis to refill your primary ammo. I'm pretty sure that you can't get heavy ammo from auto-synth in the VoG, so it's not really that exploitative. It just cuts down on how often you're standing around unable to contribute. It's basically like using a synth-pack, but without the pointless and time consuming menu interaction.
*- Of course, there's a slim possibility of them being able to, but it's very small. Even if they did, the clock on that raid would be so long that I think they'd probably give up before they finished it.
We gave it a few more shots but couldn't execute as well and decided to finish tonight. I'm sure it will go good tonight but it was frustrating.
