Different grade of tires: your experiences and opinions

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Faaaaaaaaaantastic! So Comfort Soft seems to be the way to go to replicate realistic grip for this car? (Not entirely surprising, but still a little bit.) Given my 7:49 on the Nordschleife on Comfort Medium (albeit 100% limited no oil change), the '11 record should be dust.

Absolutely spectacular. First hot lap as-is came in at 7:41.596 using the first setup. The brake balance is just a little aggressive for the 'Ring so I adjusted it down to 5/6 and worked my way down to a 7:33.982 ('11 record was 7:34.xxx). I'll play around with some of the factory adjustability to get it suited most to my taste but it's a testament to the capability of the stock (truly stock) car. Thank you so much for your efforts @Ridox2JZGTE

That's a very good time Glad you are having great time driving it at the ring Feel free to try it at Tsukuba and Motegi Road Course as well, the 2:07.600 time at Motegi is quite a challenge and fun to beat

If you look at this Best Motoring video - GTR vs The World 2 ( Motegi Battle ), you can use the braking point and speed at braking point as reference, they are very close to the replica in GT6, even the cornering speeds The video can also be a good source to see how other supercars in the race stack up in GT6 version, the Gallardo, Murcielago. all should be on comfort tires too

 

[Johnnypenso]

Stock cars coming with SH tyres i used to think had way too little grip, now i think they have too much.
It takes a few hours for your brain to calibrate the new grip levels but when you get there it is a hallelujah moment!

Well said, that captures it in a nutshell. 👍👍 I think a lot of people do what you used to do, slap RS tires on everything. Then when they try the stock compounds, they give it a lap or two, have a couple of spins and give up. If you don't give up the brain and the hands adjust and you figure it out and then it becomes second place. The driving is so much more enjoyable on stock tires it really is like a completely different game.

 

[phil_75]

@Ridox2JZGTE Do you have a thread or somewhere with all your real life setups in one place?

Great work by the way!

Edit, I should read the small print, found it

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well said, that captures it in a nutshell. 👍👍 I think a lot of people do what you used to do, slap RS tires on everything. Then when they try the stock compounds, they give it a lap or two, have a couple of spins and give up. If you don't give up the brain and the hands adjust and you figure it out and then it becomes second place. The driving is so much more enjoyable on stock tires it really is like a completely different game.

I agree, the problem I've found though is getting enough people to take part in a race when you are putting up a public room. Seems these days, RS 500PP is the only thing that attracts people. It's sad really. I mean, I wish people would give SS more of a try at the very least.

 

[Lellep]

Wait... so according to PD this:

has the same amout of grip as this:

 

[TexRex]

Wait... so according to PD this:

has the same amout of grip as this:

Yep. Whole lotte sense, eh? Love the Cervo though.

 

[amar212]

... the Gallardo, Murcielago. all should be on comfort tires too

Yes.

 

[TexRex]

It seems to me most every road car should.

 

[cjr3559]

PD should use another name instead of 'Comfort' (tires). 'Comfort' more or less gives the impression of mushyness and luxury. Maybe that's why people stay away from them. Maybe call them 'Practical', 'Basic' or simply 'Road' or 'Street' tires instead.

My old man (and he's old for real) has a '79 911SC with what I could compare in GT to comfort hard tires. I've driven it dozens of times over the years and I never dare push the thing to the max level of grip for my (and everyone else's) sake. Granted I've driven it with some enthusiasm and speed, but never even close to how I can push a BTR on CH's in GT.

 

[TexRex]

My old man (and he's old for real) has a '79 911SC with what I could compare in GT to comfort hard tires. I've driven it dozens of times over the years and I never dare push the thing to the max level of grip for my (and everyone else's) sake. Granted I've driven it with some enthusiasm and speed, but never even close to how I can push a BTR on CH's in GT.

Very nice. I had a '70 911S that someone had swapped a 2.7 into long before I owned it and yeah, skinny tires combined with the heavy engine all the way in back and a short wheelbase made for some real fun. Just bear in mind, though, that the BTR is a fair bit more than your basic 911 Turbo of the period.

 

[vr6cas]

PD should use another name instead of 'Comfort' (tires). 'Comfort' more or less gives the impression of mushyness and luxury. Maybe that's why people stay away from them. Maybe call them 'Practical', 'Basic' or simply 'Road' or 'Street' tires instead.

My old man (and he's old for real) has a '79 911SC with what I could compare in GT to comfort hard tires. I've driven it dozens of times over the years and I never dare push the thing to the max level of grip for my (and everyone else's) sake. Granted I've driven it with some enthusiasm and speed, but never even close to how I can push a BTR on CH's in GT.

I agree, I once said in a lobby that comfort tires should be called street tires, sports could either stay the same or be called track tires or semi slicks hard, mediums or softs, and I guess racing tires could stay the same or add racing slicks hard, mediums or soft. Since Yokohama is a sponsor, it would be cool if we had actual tire names and a picture of what that tire looks like and that said tire actually modeled on to the car whenever we use or switch said tire.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Wait... so according to PD this:

has the same amout of grip as this:

You have to accomodate for width of the tyres and size of the sidewalls too. The Suzuki has taller sidewalls, IE softer, and narrower tread than the NSX. In short, that means that the NSX will have more grip under acceleration and deceleration in a straight line, and also more grip when turning, both from wider tyres and harder sidewalls.

 

[TexRex]

You have to accomodate for width of the tyres and size of the sidewalls too. The Suzuki has taller sidewalls, IE softer, and narrower tread than the NSX. In short, that means that the NSX will have more grip under acceleration and deceleration in a straight line, and also more grip when turning, both from wider tyres and harder sidewalls.

Agreed. It's also been said here that CH are likely the most appropriate stock tire for the early NSX and, since there's nothing below that, is as far as the Cervo can go. (I've driven the dang thing on CH and find it hard to believe it really has that much grip in real life.)

 

[cjr3559]

Just bear in mind, though, that the BTR is a fair bit more than your basic 911 Turbo of the period.

True, true. I'm not aware of any RR cars in GT that have similar power characteristics to the SC other than maybe the Alpine? The turbos on the RUFs are definitely more powerful than a stock 911 without. Off the top of my head I'm not sure of the HP of our SC, but it's probably only around 300 at the most.

 

[TexRex]

True, true. I'm not aware of any RR cars in GT that have similar power characteristics to the SC other than maybe the Alpine? The turbos on the RUFs are definitely more powerful than a stock 911 without. Off the top of my head I'm not sure of the HP of our SC, but it's probably only around 300 at the most.

Under 200 freshly tuned up stock specification is the norm.

 

[smskeeter23]

@SuzukaStar i gues you are a DS3 user right?

@crowhop @smskeeter23 what setup you have guys?

in my experience CH tires on anything beside a FIAT Panda is silly

@Malcolm Tucker what do you mean by you don't drive? ?_?

Sorry I lost sight of this... G27 on an Open Wheeler seat.

DFGT

It is slow, boring and tedious lapping the Ring on CH tires in any car. Even in a 400pp BRZ on CH tires with no aides can be tricky if you go full throttle at the wrong time...just as real life. It is rewarding to those who dare make themselves do it cleanly. Driving a car constantly as the edge of grip is the "secret" to fast.

This is exactly like me, @NCRthree...

Hey, I've been driving the M5 on CH like you suggested (pretty sure that was you ) and your right, it's like it was made for them! I'm actually now working on formulating a "Ring Taxi Challenge" based on it 💡

Also, lapping the ring on CH "cleanly" is quite fun and has made me wildly faster in all my other cars. I spent about 90min tonight lapping in a stock Yellowbird, no aids, track edge real tonight. That car makes you work on CH around the ring but oh is it fun and rewarding

 

[cjr3559]

Under 200 freshly tuned up stock specification is the norm.

Wow, didn't realize it was that low. I was confusing its 3.0L engine with 300HP. Oops

I knew there was a 3 in the specs somewhere.

 

[azidahaka]

i gave a some laps on a f430 '06 on the nurb no tuning, all aids off beside abs at 1 and i have to say i'm starting to understand now.

Who would be interested in a ferrari challenge serie?

 

[Greycap]

I still think Comfort Hards are off even as daily driver tyres, I tuned a Volvo 240 with a Stage 2 turbo and full weight reductions plus necessary ballast to get it very close to the specs of my real car, a 940 Turbo. Flooring it from a standing start resulted in a spectacular burnout despite the default tyres being Comfort Mediums, having done my share of full throttle launches with the 940 and its tyres that are far from high performance rubber I can say that it won't break grip on dry tarmac without deliberately trying. To get similar acceleration grip in GT6 the most accurate option would be probably something between CM and CS.

And yes, I know that people use the good old "compound X gives similar time to real life so it must be correct" argument - well it may work on race cars. Drive every lap with road cars with the mentality that the car must be intact afterwards and I can guarantee that the times will increase quite a bit. If journalist John Doe takes a car and drives it you can be sure that he didn't push it half as hard as we do in the game so it's entirely possible that we get similar lap times with lower grade tyres because we drive the car to the absolute limits.

 

[TexRex]

I still think Comfort Hards are off even as daily driver tyres, I tuned a Volvo 240 with a Stage 2 turbo and full weight reductions plus necessary ballast to get it very close to the specs of my real car, a 940 Turbo. Flooring it from a standing start resulted in a spectacular burnout despite the default tyres being Comfort Mediums, having done my share of full throttle launches with the 940 and its tyres that are far from high performance rubber I can say that it won't break grip on dry tarmac without deliberately trying. To get similar acceleration grip in GT6 the most accurate option would be probably something between CM and CS.

And yes, I know that people use the good old "compound X gives similar time to real life so it must be correct" argument - well it may work on race cars. Drive every lap with road cars with the mentality that the car must be intact afterwards and I can guarantee that the times will increase quite a bit. If journalist John Doe takes a car and drives it you can be sure that he didn't push it half as hard as we do in the game so it's entirely possible that we get similar lap times with lower grade tyres because we drive the car to the absolute limits.

I really think fault lies more in the modelling of linear grip as it relates to hard launches from a standstill. Now I don't claim to be an expert in the field, but I can see how it might be difficult to accurately represent both the full throttle standstill launches and controlled tight corner exits, and since it isn't The Real Burnout Simulator, I'm inclined to believe that the latter was made a priority.
The whole self-preserving-real-world-driving versus it's-just-a-video-game-it-can't-hurt-you-so-push-the-limit topic has been discussed ad infinitum and I think when all variables are equal, the merits of each are likely to balance each other out.
Regarding equal variables; a Volvo 940 is not a Volvo 240 and the Volvo 240 in the game may not be represented correctly to begin with.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Clutch may help ?

 

[phil_75]

The "it matches real life laptimes" theory is also off because of the lack of any wind resistance being modelled.

Cars seem fairly accurate upto around 60mph but then they just keep accelerating like there is no wind resistance at all.

Its comical in some cars how fast they accelerate beyond 100mph.

I think a tyre between CM & CS with a 10 - 15% power reduction would be good to try.

Edit, tried it on the Focus ST it feels better, there's less of that unnatural "hardness" feeling to the tyres with CMs and the power drop keeps it more inline with real life times at 10%.
Just did a 1.02.4 on Goodwood which is the closest i've got yet to matching that real life 1.02.13.

Give it a try see what you guys think to it.

 

[diegorborges]

PD should use another name instead of 'Comfort' (tires). 'Comfort' more or less gives the impression of mushyness and luxury. Maybe that's why people stay away from them. Maybe call them 'Practical', 'Basic' or simply 'Road' or 'Street' tires instead.

My old man (and he's old for real) has a '79 911SC with what I could compare in GT to comfort hard tires. I've driven it dozens of times over the years and I never dare push the thing to the max level of grip for my (and everyone else's) sake. Granted I've driven it with some enthusiasm and speed, but never even close to how I can push a BTR on CH's in GT.

Spot on about the tires name.

They should be once again, be called Normal Tires. N1, N2, N3.

 

[TexRex]

Cars seem fairly accurate upto around 60mph but then they just keep accelerating like there is no wind resistance at all.

I've been consistently hitting 201mph in a stock MP4-12C on the Nordschleife straight, and then in a room with Boost off and settings at "Real," I conjured up (as if by magic--because apparently there was no wind resistance on any of my previous laps) 217 behind @vr6cas in a modified C6 Z06.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The "it matches real life laptimes" theory is also off because of the lack of any wind resistance being modelled.

Cars seem fairly accurate upto around 60mph but then they just keep accelerating like there is no wind resistance at all.

Its comical in some cars how fast they accelerate beyond 100mph.

I think a tyre between CM & CS with a 10 - 15% power reduction would be good to try.

Edit, tried it on the Focus ST it feels better, there's less of that unnatural "hardness" feeling to the tyres with CMs and the power drop keeps it more inline with real life times at 10%.
Just did a 1.02.4 on Goodwood which is the closest i've got yet to matching that real life 1.02.13.

Give it a try see what you guys think to it.

The inaccuracy varies from car to car, from the amount of wind/aero drag at speed and the speed at which it occurs.

For example, this Nissan GTR replica that I posted able to achieve similar speed to real life lap/race driven by Naoki Hattori. If you watch the Best Motoring video I linked below, you can compare the top speed on each braking point on most straight at Motegi Road Course, the difference is quite minimal between GT6 and real life, acceleration also very similar, you can see on the onboard cam, the GTR driven by Hattori accelerate damn quick above 160kmh, the long straight down hill before the right hander near the end of the lap and the main straight before 1st turn, the real Nissan GTR reached +207kmh before braking

NISSAN GTR '07 Stock Replica
Real World Setup and Alignment
Tuned to replicate Nissan GTR '07 - Tsukuba and Motegi Lap Record
Comfort Soft​

View attachment 179231
​

CAR : Nissan GTR '07
Tire : Comfort Soft

Specs
Horsepower: 473 HP / 480 PS at 6800 RPM
Torque : 442.6 ft-lb at 3500 RPM
Power Limiter at : 97.8%
Weight: 1740 kg - official curb weight
Ballast : 192 kg
Ballast Position : -35
Weight Distribution : 55 / 45 as in real life
Performance Points: 526


GT AUTO
NO OIL change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED IN THIS BUILD )
Wheels : Stock
Car Paint : Silver or Red

Tuning Parts Installed :
Fully Customizable Suspension
Weight Reduction Stage 1

View attachment 180029
​

Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Street / Daily Driving Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.4 1.4 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.51, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: 0.10 0.10 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.


Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Sport / Track Alignment
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.8 1.7 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.76, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: -0.06 0.10 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.


Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Street / Daily Driving Alignment - Personal Setup
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.3 1.4 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.76, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: -0.15 0.15 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.


Suspension - Bilstein Damptronic with Stock Ride Height + Factory Nissan Sports / Track Alignment - Personal Setup
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 110 110
Spring Rate: 9.82 5.36
Dampers (Compression): 5 6
Dampers (Extension): 6 6
Anti-Roll Bars: 2 3
Camber Angle: 1.8 1.7 ( factory : F -1.44 to -1.76, R -1.40 to -1.73)
Toe Angle: -0.22 0.00 ( factory : F Toe Out 0.9mm or 1/8" to 1/16" to Toe In 1.5mm, R Toe Out 0.3mm to Toe In 3.7mm ) GT6 values : F -0.22 to 0.10, R -0.02 to 0.26 range.



AERO:
FRONT : 20 ( Fixed )
REAR : 20 ( Fixed )


Brake Balance:
6/8 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 6/8, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance. I recommend to run 6/8 for ABS 1.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 6/8 brake balance as starting point.

​

Notes :
The Nissan GTR is one of the car that I have so many in the garage Ever since GT5, I had about 20 of these at all times and in GT6, I have about 10 or so now, all are replicas.

This one is the most basic replica, with stock tune and some corrections on power, suspension and weight distribution.

Power has been reduced to 473HP / 480PS to reflect official power as tested on Best Motoring, weight at 1740kg ( official curb weight value ) and weight distribution at 55/45 - as measured from corner weight.

I researched quite a lot to find the CBA-R35 GTR 1st gen spring rate, then I stumbled a GTR owner who had a chance to speak with one of the Nissan GTR key engineer during a special GTR promo event. He posted the spring rate, many doubted him, but after doing more research on later model year spring rate increase and the NISMO package, I decided to believe and used it for this replica build.

Stock spring rate : F 550lb/in and R 300lb/in, this translate to F 9.82kg/mm and R 5.36kg/mm ( rounded for GT6 ) Stock ride height is retained, with damper has been tweaked for optimum handling balance and ARB to reduce push on entry, soft but not harsh. The Nissan GTR spring rate gets higher/changed every model year from 2008 onwards.

Camber and toe uses early GTR factory manual alignment presets, later models have 3 preset, daily city driving, sports and track. The changes are very minor, slightly higher camber and similar toe range. For this replica, I provided 2 preset, daily/city/street and sports/track. I obtained these from GTR forum, taken from early gen GTR manual. Another 2 are my own personal setup based on the factory alignment. Try all of them and notice the difference, pick one that suits you best, or simply play around with the value range.

I mainly tested the car at Tsukuba and Motegi Road Course. These 2 tracks have been the proving grounds for the GTR on Best Motoring show.

Keiichi Tsuchiya posted 1:02.125 lap time at Tsukuba on stock GTR with Dunlop OEM tires. Aim for this time or better.
In 2009, MCR owned Nissan GTR '09 model, in stock form, driven by Keiichi Tsuchiya posted a best lap of 1:01.931 at Tsukuba My test lap was 1:01.4xxx on 2nd lap run using my personal setup sports/track alignment preset.

Naoki Hattori posted 2:07.600 lap time at Motegi Road Course on stock GTR with Dunlop OEM - SP Sport 600 DSST tires. My test lap was 2:07.4xxx on 1st lap run using my personal setup street/daily driving alignment preset.

If you want added challenge, run the car at Nordschleife and aim to beat 7:26.700, driven by the legend Toshio Suzuki ( 480PS/1740kg ) back in 2008.

ENJOY

Sorry if I reposting the video.

 

[phil_75]

I've been consistently hitting 201mph in a stock MP4-12C on the Nordschleife straight, and then in a room with Boost off and settings at "Real," I conjured up (as if by magic--because apparently there was no wind resistance on any of my previous laps) 217 behind @vr6cas in a modified C6 Z06.

What has one cars top speed got to do with anything?

I am talking about the rate of acceleration which is way to fast after around 60mph.

 

[phil_75]

The inaccuracy varies from car to car, from the amount of wind/aero drag at speed and the speed at which it occurs.

For example, this Nissan GTR replica that I posted able to achieve similar speed to real life lap/race driven by Naoki Hattori. If you watch the Best Motoring video I linked below, you can compare the top speed on each braking point on most straight at Motegi Road Course, the difference is quite minimal between GT6 and real life, acceleration also very similar, you can see on the onboard cam, the GTR driven by Hattori accelerate damn quick above 160kmh, the long straight down hill before the right hander near the end of the lap and the main straight before 1st turn, the real Nissan GTR reached +207kmh before braking





Sorry if I reposting the video.

Yes i agree mate!

It differs wildly between models, the GT-R will probably be the most accurate car in the game with how closely they have worked with Nissan on the GT-R.

 

[TexRex]

What has one cars top speed got to do with anything?

Oh I don't know--maybe the fact that a car has to accelerate in order to reach any speed beyond none.

 

[phil_75]

Oh I don't know--maybe the fact that a car has to accelerate in order to reach any speed beyond none.

You clearly don't understand so don't bother trying.

So in your world this Veyron could go 613kmh in real life?

No?

Why not, what would be stopping it?

Watch "Gran Turismo 6 Bugatti Veyron 2013 - 613 km/h Top Speed" on YouTube

 

[TexRex]

You clearly don't understand so don't bother trying.

So in your world this Veyron could go 613kmh in real life?

No?

Why not, what would be stopping it?

Watch "Gran Turismo 6 Bugatti Veyron 2013 - 613 km/h Top Speed" on YouTube

Yay! In a debate regarding the capabilities of lower grade tires on stock cars in-game versus their real world counterparts, let's post a video of a max tuned Veyron on the highest grade tires allowable to prove a point! This one may as well have been posted: