Difficult Car Spotlight - Lancia Stratos

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by XS, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. XS

    XS Premium

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    Ah, the Lancia Stratos. This car's history is almost as complex and difficult as it's handling characteristics. Beginning life as quite the radical Stratos Zero prototype in 1970, when it went on display at the 1970 Turin Motor Show it was received with near disgust by many automotive reporters. So radical that it was forgettable was the description most reporters gave the car. Luckily a few influential people did see potential in the bewildering prototype, most notable being Cesare Fioro. For reasons only Cesare Fioro himself knew, he saw rallying potential written all over the Stratos Zero concept. His staff even admitted years later that Fioro kept the Stratos a secret for as long as possible due to fears that nobody would take the project seriously. Gee I wonder why? In 1971 Nuccio Bertone was asked by Lancia chairman Ugo Gobbato to bring the Zero to Lancia HQ, a task which Nuccio Bertone undertook by driving the Stratos Zero personally to Via San Paolo. Legend has it that the entire building emptied and assembled around the prototype while Bertone was quietly awaiting the gatekeeper to allow him access. Realizing the car wasn't going to be able to move for some time, Bertone simply got out and left the car, and ensuing crowd, to gawk over the piece of history in making. It wasn't too long after that Bertone was contracted to produce the Stratos and the world gained a motoring icon.

    lancia-stratos_001.jpg

    For March all the Stratos' will actually be in the spotlight, the Stratos '73, the Stratos Anniversary Edition, and the Stratos Rally Car '77. Tune one, or tune them all, either way your tuning skills will certainly be tested with these little beasts!!

    1976-lancia-stratos--2_600x0w.jpg

    Lancia_Stratos___Illustration_by_Farins.jpg

    Rules: There are none! Just do your absolute best to tune these cars. The whole point is to make the car enjoyable and drivable. In the last thread we tried to make reviews mandatory but that ended up fizzling out quickly. So for this month I highly encourage all tuners to at least drive the other submissions and any subsequent reviews would be highly appreciated. So without further ado, let the tuning begin!

    Tunes:
    DolHaus
    Jakedog23
    Jules283
    Krenkme
    Praiano63
    Oppositelock
    Ridox2JZGTE
    TurnLeft
    Xande1959

    Reviews
    DolHaus' Review of Jakedog23's Tune
    DolHaus' Review of Praiano's Tune
    DolHaus' Review of Oppositelock's Tune
    DolHaus' Review of TurnLeft's Tune
    TurnLeft's Review of DolHaus' Tune
    TurnLeft's Review of Jakedog23's Tune
    TurnLeft's Review of Oppositelock's Tune
    TurnLeft's Review of Praiano's Tune
    TurnLeft's Review of Ridox2JZGTE's Tune
    TurnLeft's Review of Xande1959's Tune
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
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  2. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    This is a very special car for me.
    I have a tune that i was pretending to post in the next APP update but i´ll do it now in your thread during my break time.
    It´s a top 450PP car any track, specially on the ring where his excelent top speed help a lot in the last straight.
    The strategy in an online room is to stick with the leaders and pass everybody in the straight.... funny moment

    [​IMG]
    Lancia stratos 73.jpg
    Enjoy your drive.
    ><(((((°>°°°°°°°°°°°
     
    Xposed2Play, Rit, Akvarius and 10 others like this.
  3. XS

    XS Premium

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    I appreciate you sharing your tune for the thread!
     
    TripleApex and AstraeaMaric like this.
  4. oppositelock

    oppositelock

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    [​IMG]

    Lancia Stratos '73 - 375,000

    Oil Change - 250
    Improve Body Rigidity - 25,000 (Est.)
    Tires: Sports Soft - 10,000
    Height-Adjustable, Fully Customizable Suspension - 20,000
    Racing Brakes - 10,000
    Fully Customizable Dog-Clutch Transmission - 20,000
    Twin-Plate Clutch Kit - 3,500
    Fully Customizable Mechanical Limited Slip Differential - 7,500
    Engine: Stage 1 - 5,000
    Sports Computer - 2,000
    Intake Tuning - 5,000
    Semi-Racing Exhaust - 7,500
    Isometric Exhaust Manifold - 3,500
    Catalytic Converter: Sports - 2,000
    Weight Reduction: Stage 1 - 5,000

    Total Investment - 501,250


    PP: 473
    284 HP @ 7700 RPM
    230 LB-FT @ 4700 RPM
    911 KG
    3.20 KG/HP
    Weight Distribution: 42/58


    Quick Tune Settings (v4.2):

    Suspension Level: 3
    Corner Entry Balance: -3
    Corner Exit Balance: -3
    Base Camber Angle: 0.0
    LSD Strength: 2
    Spread: 100.0%
    Scale: 100.0%


    Ride Height: 88 / 113
    Spring Rate: 6.10 / 8.37
    Dampers (Compression): 7 / 7
    Dampers (Extension): 6 / 8
    Anti-Roll Bars: 6 / 2
    Camber Angle: 0.0 / 0.0
    Toe Angle: 0.21 / 0.85
    Brake Balance: 10 / 0


    Transmission Instructions:

    Set Final Gear to 5.137
    Set Max Speed to 155 MPH (250 KPH)

    1st Gear: 2.753
    2nd Gear: 1.824
    3rd Gear: 1.323
    4th Gear: 1.000
    5th Gear: 0.779
    Final Gear: 4.080


    Initial Torque: - / 19
    Acceleration Sensitivity: - / 24
    Braking Sensitivity: - / 30


    ABS 1, all other aids off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
    xande1959 and XS like this.
  5. DigitalBaka

    DigitalBaka Premium

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    @oppositelock Saweet pic! :tup: Would never have painted mine that color but it looks pretty good.

    I can't wait to try these but I may have to. :p Got some testing to do for the Miata Challenge and a new WRS team event I want to put a good effort into. I'll post up some thoughts and comments once I get a chance to run these.
     
    XS and oppositelock like this.
  6. XS

    XS Premium

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    I'd really love for someone to tune the rally car too. I realize rallying hasn't been all that big since GT4 but we're in some desparate need of some rally tunes, and what better car than the Stratos?
     
    FussyFez likes this.
  7. FussyFez

    FussyFez

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    I'll be hitting the rally car, but a tarmac tune on sports hards probably.

    Only once I've reviewed last month's cars though!

    Still on my to do list. Will get round to it though, looking forward to playing with the stratos, already have the road car, but the rally car will be a monster.
     
    XS likes this.
  8. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    I've been trying to put a tune together for the Stratos but I just can't get the back end stable under hard braking, The car feels great the rest of the time but it just keeps snapping round when I come off the brakes while turning.
    Any ideas? Can't seem to stabilise it without making it understeer badly
     
  9. rams1de

    rams1de

    Messages:
    451
    Add ballast to front
    Increase LSD Decel
    Raise rear ride height (or lower front)
    Stronger front brake bias

    It may mean you have to start over with the tune. But spinning rear under braking is the worst aspect of the Stratos imo, so probably best to have some semblance of control before tackling understeer.
     
  10. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    I've tried all of them but they either make the car feel completely numb at the front or they have no useful effect. I've tried reworking the front after stabilising the rear but it is unrecoverable. There seems to be no middle ground, it either handles beautifully but kills you every time you even think about braking or is stable but drives like a barge.
     
  11. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    stratosTrial Mountain Circuit_12.jpg
    Car: Lancia Stratos '73
    Wheel / Joypad: PS3 controller
    Power:
    249 BHP @ 7600 Rpm / 28.4 kgfm @ 4600 Rpm
    Weight:
    945 kg
    Performance Points:
    450 PP
    Tires:
    SS
    Weight Distribution: 46:54

    Suspension) :
    Height-Adjustable, Fully-Customisable Suspension)


    Ride Height: Front: 100 Rear: 100
    Spring Rate: Front: 5.72 kg Rear: 5.88 kg
    Dampers (Compression):
    Front: 8 Rear: 7
    Dampers (Extension)
    : Front: 3 Rear: 4
    Anti-Roll Bars: Front: 4 Rear: 5
    Camber Angle (-)
    : Front: 0.0° Rear: 0.0°
    Toe Angle: Front: 0.00° Rear: 0.34°
    Brakes: Racing Upgrade F: 7 R: 7

    Drivetrain:
    (Fully Customisable Transmission)


    Set final to 5.200
    Set max to 112
    Set in sequence (5-4-3-2-1)
    Set final to 3.558

    Speed: 112 mph

    1:
    3.357
    2:
    2.443
    3:
    1.841
    4:
    1.448
    5:
    1.187

    Final:
    3.558

    Differential Gear:
    Fully Customisable Mechanical Limited-Slip Diff

    Initial Torque:
    R= 13
    Acceleration Sensitivity:
    R= 40
    Braking Sensitivity:
    R= 21
    Clutch & Flywheel:
    Twin plate
    Propeller Shaft: Standard

    Power


    Oil Change:
    Yes
    Power Limiter: 100%
    Engine Tuning: Standard
    Computer:
    Sport
    Exhaust:
    Semi-Racing
    Exhaust Manifold: Standard
    Catalytic Converter:
    Sports
    Intake Tuning:
    Yes
    Turbo Kit: Stage:
    Standard
    Nitrous Oxide (N2O): No

    Body


    Body Rigidity Improvement:
    No
    Downforce: F = 0 R = 0
    Weight Reduction:
    Stage 3
    Bonnet: Carbon
    Windows:
    Weight Reduction
    Ballast:
    88kg
    Ballast position: -50
     
    xande1959 and seb15000 like this.
  12. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    @praiano63


    (ds3, ABS 1, Trial Mountain 10 laps)

    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    Stable, neutral, good brakes, feels like there is a lot of grip (perhaps too much?).
    Mid: Plenty of grip, holds line fairly well if you manage your speed, very stable weight shift.
    Exit: Easy to get on the throttle, very stable and plenty of grip but can push wide if you apply throttle too early
    Comments: Feels very stable and predictable but strangely heavy, seems to be a slight delay between steering and the car reacting. Not difficult to manage and no noticeable drop in performance but a little out of character


    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    A little bit of understeer initially but manageable
    Mid: Holds speed well but you need to be on and off the throttle to keep a tight line
    Exit: No real problems except for the throttle induced understeer
    Comments: Again feels heavy and a bit numb but still very easy to drive once you get used to it, plenty of grip and good speed retention but I found it hard to push with the car, if you try and carry a little more speed through a corner in just seems to want to understeer.


    High Speed Corner
    Entry:
    Feels like there is a delay between steering and car again
    Mid: Good speed, very stable, understeer builds under throttle
    Exit: Stable, no drama
    Comments: Nothing to report really, feels fine apart from the problems mentioned before.

    Tune Comments: The car is very stable and easy to drive but it lacked character, very consistent and decent lap times but I didn't find it that much fun to drive. Its extremely competent and easy to learn, there's no doubting that. For me this car was one I'd use in a career/seasonal race to clear it because of the stability, but I wouldn't drive the car for fun for the same reason.
     
  13. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

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    Good test, thanks, this is exactly how i´built my car. It´s for the Nordschleife Online. There if you drive a funny car in the middle of a battle with other racers, you will not complete half lap.
    You need a safe fast car, with a limited weight transfer in this case, to be able to go fast with a little margin for one or two mistakes.
    I like to do fun cars too but on other kind of track, like Eiger, trial mountain.... Perhaps i´ll make another stratos on comfort tires.
     
    Jakedog23, XS and DolHaus like this.
  14. Ronald6

    Ronald6

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    Stratos rally tune? Challenge accepted!

    Im done tuning and testing for the FITT Miata challenge. This should keep me occupied for awhile. If I don't end up ramming my PS3 through my steering wheel first. :)
     
    XS likes this.
  15. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    @oppositelock


    (ds3, ABS 1, Trial Mountain 10 laps)

    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    Fairly sharp, a decent amount of grip and good rotation
    Mid: Holds line fairly well, feels quite balanced
    Exit: Can develop oversteer fairly easily but very manageable when sliding
    Comments: Feels a tiny bit nervous initially but once you learn to trust the oversteer it is quite responsive and fun to drive


    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    A little hard to predict at times, seems to change depending on the gradient of the track
    Mid: Very responsive but likes to over rotate
    Exit: Again oversteers on exit, easy to keep your foot planted and wait for it to regain grip though
    Comments: I found that sometimes it was fine and neutral on entry, sometimes it wanted to oversteer, sometimes you get understeer. Makes it hard to predict but seems be related to the gradient of the track on approach. Mid corner rotation is fun but it drops a lot of speed, the car seems to keep turning after you release the steering meaning that you can never really get the car settled.


    High Speed Corner
    Entry:
    Fairly sharp, clean and responsive
    Mid: Still wants to rotate constantly
    Exit: Again oversteers on exit, easy to keep your foot planted and wait for it to regain grip though
    Comments: No new problems, just the same ones as before but at a slightly higher speed. Its very controllable and stable whilst sideways, feels like a touge car, great fun but it bleeds speed constantly.

    Tune Comments: I enjoyed the car thoroughly but I was surprised at how slow it was, I couldn't match the times of my own car or Praianos even with the power/PP advantage you have over both of us. It felt nice and responsive and very capable at the limit but it just wants to slide at the least advantageous moment even if you are careful on the throttle. Stable on entry then over rotates mid corner every single time, the only option is to get on the throttle and power through but that just means poor exit speed.

    Overall, great fun to slide around but it seems to have a bit of an identity crisis, too loose mid corner to be a racer and too stable on entry to be a drift/touge car
     
    Ronald6 likes this.
  16. Ronald6

    Ronald6

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    Great reviews @DolHaus. I like the style, short and to the point with all the information a reader needs. Two :tup: :tup:
     
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  17. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Yeah you're definitely right there, yours would be very easy to drive consistently and quickly which is what you need on the NBR. I just found it not to my taste, it just felt too far away from the original car for me, a Stratos that doesn't like to slide is like a shark without teeth lol
     
  18. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Thank you
    I try not to be too negative but its important to be honest about faults. After all, identifying the problem is the first and most important stage towards solving it.
     
    Ronald6 likes this.
  19. oppositelock

    oppositelock

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    @DolHaus

    Thanks for the review, very informative. I think the relative looseness compared to the other two tunes is mainly due to the lack of ballast. I've tried to tame the car as much as possible without resorting to adding weight, but it seems there's only so much you can do with heavy rear bias and what appear to be non-staggered tires. Once again, thank you.
     
    DolHaus likes this.
  20. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    I wouldn't say the car was loose, it feels fairly tight and balanced but it just over rotates and lets go mid corner. The thing I think is causing this is the front and rear toe setting, such large angles make it very difficult for the car to stay stable during rotation, makes it want to keep turning when ever steering is applied. Great fun though, loves to hang its arse out on exit making for some entertaining replays, one for the fans
     
  21. Jakedog23

    Jakedog23

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    Hello guys this was my first tune that I did from scratch. All the others were modified versions of Praianos tunes. It was very tricky to tune and I hope you like it. Lancia STRATOS Anniv. Ed. '73.jpg
    Lancia STRATOS Anniversary Edition '73.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
    XS likes this.
  22. XS

    XS Premium

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    Took a second to gain some momentum, but the Stratos is gaining some great tunes! I will not be tuning this one as I am not gifted enough to tame it :scared:. But I've been working with the rally car and have it producing some decent lap times. Once I feel it is competitive for it's PP range I'll post it.
     
  23. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    3,865
    Location:
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    @Jakedog23

    (ds3, ABS 1, Grand Valley 10 laps)

    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    Feels a little heavy and unwilling but grips well
    Mid: Holds its line fairly well, small amount of weight transfer but well managed
    Exit: Throttle control is needed to keep it in line but it is fairly comfortable if it slips
    Comments: The feeling of weigh surprised me a little but it was easy enough to get used to, good rotation and predictable oversteer.


    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    Again feels heavy, you have to put in a lot of input to make it turn in which is fine most of the time but can lead to problems in race conditions
    Mid: If the track is flat its good and stable but elevation/camber change can lead to instability
    Exit: Similar to low speed exit, requires throttle control and can get a bit carried away but predictable most of the time
    Comments: Its either really good or slightly unpredictable dependant on the state of the track, if its flat there's no trouble but bumps and camber can throw up some difficult characteristics. It slides out of the bends which works for it and is to be expected but sometimes the rear finds grip mid slide and drives you straight into the wall without warning or chance to save it.


    High Speed Corner
    Entry:
    No new problems, just feels slightly heavy again
    Mid: Stable enough, pulls slightly wide if pushed too hard
    Exit: A little bit of oversteer but completely manageable
    Comments: No real problems to report, still doesn't like to turn in at speed but once you're used to it there's no major problems

    Tune Comments: A fun car but always wants to kill you when you least expect it. I think the car was a bit too heavy overall and this causes the majority of the problems, it was quite fun to drive but seemed to try to kill you when you least expect it. I'd find myself drifting out of a corner loving the slide and then it would suddenly find grip on the inside wheel a dart into the wall, made it hard to gauge how hard you could really push the car. I'd suggest raising the Initial on the diff and dropping some weight, the extra weight distribution at the back will allow the car to rotate as it should and the diff will keep things more constant at the back allowing for more progression.
     
    Jakedog23 likes this.
  24. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    I'm genuinely surprised at how fast the Stratos is, I just tested a 4wd car at the same PP and it was 6 seconds slower around trial mountain, I might be able to knock 2 secs off with a better transmission setup but its still going to be nowhere close
     
  25. XS

    XS Premium

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    Which one? The rally car? It is fast on tarmac, but somehow on dirt and snow with stock settings it's a little slower than other rally cars of the same vintage and/or PP. I'm certainly not testing it against other rally cars 4WD equipped and decades newer, like the '08 cars, but still on dirt and snow it can be faster. Overall, pretty fun and decent though.
     
  26. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    The road car tested on tarmac, I'm awful at rally driving so I tend to avoid it lol
     
    XS likes this.
  27. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    Well hello there Mr. XS, didn't think you'd see me here? Well nothing ventured, nothing gained. I've been working on this stratos to compete in the Int.B Super Car Classics, thought it would be fun to beat those old Lamborghini's with this delightfully fun car. It's tuned at 460PP (100 below limit) on sport hards, So if Mr. DolHaus does a review of this one, and he goes to Trial Mountain with it, he is warned, I'm not paying for the damage when it crashes. I'd like to do a review or two but after reading the detailed reviews that have been posted, it might look a bit silly saying, "ya, it drives good, a bit slow but good radio", so I'll leave that to more qualified tuners, for now.
    Stratos.png
     
    XS, Jakedog23 and DolHaus like this.
  28. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Haha don't worry, I like 'em lively and I have very good insurance

    Please feel free to do some reviews, I just did some to get the ball rolling, hopefully others will follow suit when they have time. Any form of feedback is welcome no matter how detailed, just say what you liked and what you didn't and how it compared to your own experiences.
    I used a template we decided on in the last spotlight, its very good for giving accurate feedback but does take a bit of time to complete. If you wanna do your own thing then that's completely fine, I'm sure all the tuners here will be grateful for any form of feedback.
     
    DigitalBaka, XS, xande1959 and 3 others like this.
  29. xande1959

    xande1959

    Messages:
    1,399
    Location:
    Brazil
    - LANCIA STRATOS '73 450 PP S:H
    -
    -
    I'll tell you this over for drunk ballerina. oooo hangover.
    working hard.:banghead:




    -Now if this were LANCIA STRATOS () would be in good
    [​IMG]
    -Remember the legendary Lancia Stratos? Lately you've heard German entrepreneur Michael Stoschek, which recently commissioned a unique collectable Lancia Stratos, built from a Ferrari 430 Scuderia?
    .
    Well, putting together the Lancia Stratos, Michael Stoschek and a great passion for racing will get as a result of the new Lancia Stratos twenty-first century! In fact, during the production of the sole of the new Lancia Stratos in the international press, it was anticipated that it could be produced in a limited edition of only 25 copies, coincidentally the minimum number required to obtain approval to participate in the league FIA GT2.
    So the question arises: whether it's time to revive the glory days of the years '74, '75 and '76, years in which the Stratos absolutely dominated the World Rally Championship?:cheers:
     
    Jakedog23, DolHaus and XS like this.
  30. DigitalBaka

    DigitalBaka Premium

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    I do wish they would have built that, even if they just built new body panels to replace the Scuderia lines.
     
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