Difficult Car Spotlight - Lancia Stratos

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by XS, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    @DolHaus
    muppet critics.jpg
    I hope your trembling now, cause I've just taken your ex-car for a test drive on Trial Mountain and Willow Springs. I should have figured it out after seeing the picture you posted with your tuning setup what was going to happen. Felt kind of anguished when PD asked me to dish out 375 000 for a car I knew was doomed. But that didn't happen.
    So here are my impressions:
    1. I'm jealous, and I'm keeping it. (that why I said your ex-car)
    2. You forget that it's a Stratos, which can be dangerous because than you start driving over confidently and wham, you hit the mountain. (insurance claims No. 1 to 8)
    3. Very steady but somehow I wish it could have went faster, maybe because of the sound of the motor, or maybe cause there was room for the amount of grip to go farther.
    4. You got to try it on Willow Springs, the last long curve is a blast, too bad that after the starting straight there's a curve.(insurance claims No.9 & 10)
    5. I'm not saying it's perfect, but for a Stratos that's really a good setup. Since I haven't tried the other tunings yet, it's hard for me to rate this.
    I found this a an enriching experience, I'll be trying out @Jakedog23 next. You get to learn new ways of doing things you might not have thought of.
     
  2. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Thank you for your feedback, very much appreciated. I'm glad you enjoyed it, it was a great car back in its day but I never really thought gt did it justice, hopefully one of us can find the set up so we can all live out our 70's road rally fantasies
     
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  3. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    @TurnLeft

    (ds3, ABS 1, Grand Valley 10 laps)


    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    Very stable on the brakes but you need to be accurate as it won't turn during braking
    Mid: A little bit unsettled but manageable
    Exit: Great fun but constantly wants to slide
    Comments: As long as you plan ahead and pick your braking points well it will handle fairly well but aggressive weight shift can make the car get out of shape quickly


    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry:
    A little bit hesitant but reasonably stable
    Mid: Again feels a little bit unstable but holds speed well if you don't ask too much from it
    Exit: Manageable oversteer
    Comments: The weight shift is very noticeable when trying to manouver the car at speed, seems to lurch when steering is applied, the grip is fine on entry but you have to be careful when the weight shifts back as it will take the back of the car with it.


    High Speed Corner
    Entry:
    Reasonably stable with a hint of understeer
    Mid: Hard to hold a lot of speed and can understeer but stays stable
    Exit: Still wants to hang its rear out at any given opertunity
    Comments: The weight tends to drag the car a little wide but its not unmanageable if you keep it in check

    Tune Comments: If you can get it right then its fairly quick, but getting it right is a big ask! It feels a bit too soft and the weight shift can quickly get out of hand, if you can be ultra smooth with it and stop the side to side motion from building up then it performs well but the car is never more than a slightly too aggressive input away from a huge crash. Its a fun challenge to drive but you have to be prepared to concentrate to get the most out of it. I like it for the same reason I love all 70's supercars, its slightly ridiculous and always trying to kill you but that makes you feel like a hero if you manage to pull a lap together without hitting something or taking a trip into the gravel trap.
     
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  4. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    Thanks, my first ever critic, I was kind of nervous but I love your critic, with all I'm learning from your tuning and the ones to come I might be able to get it working more to my liking. Your dead on the spot when you say you have to be concentrated to drive this, I'm hoping to make it a little more relaxed drive. This is the car that made me a better driver when I got the game, I had to learn to use throttle control. Now I still have the Cizeta that I want to try and I can't wait to have a little extra time for it. As soon as time permits I'll drop by your place to try another of your tunings and give you some feedback. Also I'll want a course on how you go about analyzing the car's behavior, that is if you want and have the time. Thanks again.:tup::tup::tup:
     
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  5. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Its not a bad try at all, you've gotten rid of the major problems but a few minor ones remain, a little rethink on a few settings and it will be good. Its got the speed but its hard to get a lap out of, very much on or off the pace.
    I look forward to hearing what you think of my other cars, I think we have a fairly similar driving style judging by how you've tuned this one. If you have any further questions on how I go about tuning and analysing then feel free to message me, always happy to help. The most important thing is taking the car to a track you are confident at and know how to drive consistently, give it enough laps so that you learn how it wants to be driven and think about the various stages of each corner. All tuning solutions have Pros and Cons, you will be able to notice them if you understand the ideas behind them, a truly good tune is the best possible compromise.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
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  6. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    I will do that, you can be sure. Just finished reworking on the stratos, I really think I got the LSD right, that is as right as it can be, but I added two more notches to the intial torque to try to get the two wheels spinning together more, I changed the breaking a little higher up front and a little lower on the rear because during breaking the tires were getting to hot on the rear and it would make the car skid during turns, and finally I stiffened the front and rear quite a bit, springs, dampers and added a little more negative toe to the front. It flies on Trail Mountain and it has a lot more control, I brought down the PP to 450 and put sports soft on it, lap time was 1:36.664. So thanks, can't wait to try the others.
     
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  7. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Did you lower the LSD braking? It was set awfully high before which was causing it to straight line under braking, that may have been causing the tyres to cook as well. The time seems about right, I was running high 1:35s to low 36's in mine and Praianos cars, so you're definitely in the ball park.
     
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  8. seb15000

    seb15000

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    193
    Hi guys,
    thank you for this Mr XS, very interesting and good choice of car link :tup:
    hummmmm... Stratos, what character !!! :mischievous:
    I'll try to test the shared adjustment, but I wanted to know if there is a track prefeer tuners for testing and I see that some adjustment is hard Sport tires and other soft Sport, as it must detail completely changes the behavior of the car, is not it !??
     
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  9. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Test the cars where ever you feel comfortable, its not a contest so the idea is just to find the most balanced and capable car. Sort of like the Drivers Choice section of the FITT competition, each car is to be evaluated on its own merits. (lap times can be used for comparison but are not the overall aim of the exercise)
     
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  10. seb15000

    seb15000

    Messages:
    193
    Hi Dolhaus,
    by preparing your tuning I find a power limit of 99.0% and not 100% :odd:
     
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  11. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Ok fair enough, shouldn't be a major problem. I've noticed a few little irregularities with power levels on the car when testing other peoples cars, can't quite figure out why though. Hope you enjoy the ride
     
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  12. seb15000

    seb15000

    Messages:
    193
    good, I will test the 3 adjustable Stratos shared
    the car is very delicate it is true, we fight all the time to keep it slide and I tested only with sports hard tires on trial montain, no aid ABS1, manual DS3
    sorry for the short comment but I am not so competent and ability to get into the details :indiff:

    Dolhaus: nice car with good base, lacks a little aggressiveness with a tendency slipped from the back when downshifting too early but played :tup:

    Praiano63: efficient car to make good result but more delicate than Dolhaus again the very good job at the height of your reputation :tup:

    TurnLeft: one that slides under and incisive enough, good work indeed, continued as :tup:

    I can not test the anniversary edition, I did not, sorry !!!
     
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  13. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Thank you very much for your review, I drive automatic transmission so I wouldn't have known about the problem with down shifting without you mentioning it
     
  14. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    @Jakedog23
    Statler-waldorf-portal.jpg

    My second review, I was kind of apprehensive at doing yours after reading DolHaus's review. I took your car to Nurbugring Nord., Willow Springs, Rome, Panorama, and Trial Mountain, and I found it a really smooth ride, there wasn't as much traction as DolHaus's but it was very enjoyable. I loved the feeling you had with the 50:50 balance.
    The only track I had trouble with it was at Rome, kept loosing grip and hit the walls a couple of times, but cars don't cause accidents, drivers do. The one thing that I found that it missed was out of curve acceleration. I liked the braking balance (fitted with my type of driving), and the slight floating sensation the car had. It's always more exciting when you drive with a little edge. For the pleasue of driving I prefered yours, to win a race I would take DolHaus's Stratotractor. Keep up the good work. ( I did take a leaf out of your tuning book to fix mine, I tried the positive toe angle and it helped me.) Thanks.
     
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  15. Jakedog23

    Jakedog23

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    Thank you for the review. I knew that it wouldn't be a car that would be races for winning I just liked to drive it around Brands Hatch. And that is what is was for. Thank you.
     
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  16. Jakedog23

    Jakedog23

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    It is the same tune as the regular one but with different specs like hp torque and transmission.
     
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  17. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    @praiano63
    praiano.jpg

    First off, I'd like to apologize that I haven't yet stopped by your garage to thank you for your transmission guide (I've been using it abusively), and your seasonal tuning for the KTM X-Bow. So with all do respect, Thank you very much.:tup:

    I know you did your tuning for on-line races and I've heard there are some differences with the game races, so it's hard for me to know if it is better on one platform or the other. I tried your car on Nurbugring Nord., Willow Springs, Rome, Panorama, and Trial Mountain. Nurburgring: on the winding straights I got a little to confident and when the hard curves came I lost control, car does not like hard braking, after that I took all curves in slow, out fast and it went great till the end of the last long straight, you know what happened then. On Willow Spring and Rome it was almost a sunday drive, the car handled beautifully as long as you didn't floor it out of a curve. Unfortunately on Trail Mountain and Mount Panorama I had a little more difficulty, I don't know if it was the stiff rear or me taking the wrong line but I lost control a few times. Come to think of it, I've lost control with every car on DolHaus Mountain. If I had to choose a Stratos for a race on Willow Spring or Stage Route 5, I would take this one, but for Doom Montain, Mount Panorama or Matterhorn I would choose Dolhaus's car. It was great fun trying your car, Thanks and have good day.
     
  18. rams1de

    rams1de

    Messages:
    451
    I doff my cap to those of you who can drive the Stratos quicker round a track than other cars. I tried Praiano's tune on sports hard and struggled to break 1:40 at Trial Mountain, I can get 450pp S2000 and Integra round there in low .37s with nothing more than a basic tune.

    The Stratos is a lot easier to handle on handle on sports softs (.34s) but there's not much opportunity to run softs at that pp level. Still, I'll come back to this thread and try the other tunes to help develop the knack with MR, thanks for posting your set ups.
     
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  19. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    I've tried lowering the Decel Sens., I've tried all of your LSD settings, but i like the feel of the car when it comes out of curves and when I change it I lose that. I've tried so many different variations, moving one parameter, lap, moving another, lap, that I think I'll give it a rest for a couple of days. On SS at 450PP I'm now getting lap between 1:13.985 and 1:35.600 but there is not much room for mistakes. Do you think it would be ethical to post a "new improved" tuning sheet? By the way I've renamed your car the Stratotractor, hope you like it, if not then you'll have to find it a cooler name, it deserves one.
     
  20. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    The decel sens should only affect the car in the braking and lift off phases, it shouldn't affect the car during acceleration, thats down to accel sens (Initial affects both subtly). I can't say for certain though as there have been some small changes in the way LSDs work in the game compared to gt5. It wasn't a big problem the way it was, it just felt a bit overdone and might have benefited on certain tracks from being slightly looser under braking. If you can't get it to feel right then leave it the way it was, tune it how you like it.
    I love the name, I feel like I lack the necessary moustache to do the car justice when I drive it now though.
    You can edit your tune all you like, its not a contest so do as you please
     
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  21. Ronald6

    Ronald6

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    Ive felt since day one of GT6 that decel effects the inside tyre on a car during acceleration. This is most apparent on 4WD cars.

    Just throwing it out there. I have no proof.
     
  22. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    @oppositelock
    Scrunchface.jpg
    My last review, before I start just want to tell you thanks for the help and info for taking pictures, the downside is that I now take a hundred or more photos of every tune I make and it's very time consuming and it's taking time away from tuning, the upside is I love it. Oh and the picture up above, nothing personal I just found it funny.

    I took your car on Nurbugring Nord., Willow Springs, Panorama, Rome, and Trial Mountain. With every review I do, I seem to get a little more critical and maybe a little more observant.
    Nurburgring Nord.:
    Out of the gates going into the first curve I was wondering how the F10 R0 brake balance would do, I actually loved it, now this is the most powerful car so far and it showed when going through those winding straights, the grip felt good but the combination Stratos/Speed/Stiff Suspension is not necessary the best option, of course I could have driven slower but I've got a decease called speed-happy and I just couldn't do it. So the rest of the ride was pretty much -oops hit a bump -off road. At the end of the last long straight is where the brake balance seems to fail, I think that at high speeds when you brake the weight transfers to much to the front and then your unbalanced.
    Willow Springs:
    Now its either to fast for the track or not enough grip on those long sliding curves. I did some extra laps because I was having fun drifting with it.
    Mount Panorama:
    The car did actually well here, it's very close to wiping out especially on the descending s-s-s curve but its so much fun, it could use a little more grip but then it might take the thrill out. Again on the last long straight going fast the brake balance does not seem appropriate.
    Rome:
    It seems that every car does well here, maybe because it's an Italian car on an Italian track, or because the track is very forgiving, but I found myself doing lap after lap chasing my past .(best lap ghost line)
    Trial Mountain:
    This is not a good track for this setup, though the car was the most powerful, I was far from the best lap times I got with the other cars, here the combination of brake balance/grip/stiff suspension did not work well, but hey it is DolHaus's playground.
    Conclusion:
    I find it amazing that you used entirely a GT6 Quick Tune to do this, I find it can be a great tool to think out of the mind box we all have, sometimes we turn in circles when we tune and having a fresh idea can open up new directions.
    I liked the car quite a bit, when I'm driving and it's not a competition I like having my driving skills challenged, I think that's why all of us here like the Stratos, it's a lot more valorizing taming a dragon then taking a chiwawa for a walk. From every tuning I've learnt at least one thing, the new Seasonals have just appeared and I will try a 10-0 balance since some of the tracks are not fast, if it works I'll tell you. Have a good day and keep taking those great photo shots.
     
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  23. oppositelock

    oppositelock

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    @TurnLeft

    Thanks for the review. Good point about the suspension stiffness, I did most of my testing on smooth tracks like Brands Hatch. Next time I'll make sure to do more testing on rough tracks and use a softer suspension if required. :tup:
     
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  24. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    @XS I will be posting my ol' trusty Stratos, used to be for cruising online, now I made 2 version 450PP and 500PP ( using real life weight distribution 46/54 ). The 450PP version can lap Tsukuba in easy 1:05s on comfort soft - still on stock gearing :D


     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
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  25. XS

    XS Premium

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    OP updated with tunes and reviews. I'm really liking these tunes!
     
  26. xande1959

    xande1959

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    -LANCIA STRATOS '73 450 PP S:H
    -
    -STATS
    . Distance Driven = 203,9 km
    . changes = 1
    . Date Acquired 03/11/2014


    - CURRENT SPECS
    . Displacement = 2,418 cc
    . Max. Power = 251 HP / 6,400 rpm
    . Max. Torque = 216,9 ft-lb/5,100
    . Drivetrain /aspiration = MR/T
    . Weight = 990 Kg
    . Ballast Weight + 118 Kg
    . Ballast Position - 24 %
    . Front / Rear Weight Distribution = 45 : 55
    . Power-to-Weight Ratio = 3,94 Kg/HP

    -INSTALLED PARTS
    .Weight Readution Stage 3
    . Sports Ehaust
    . Isometric Exhaust Manifold
    . Intake Tuning
    . High RPM Range Turbo Kit
    . LSD (Triple-Plate Clutch Kit)
    . Transmission (Fully Customizable Dog-Clutch)
    . Suspension KIT.
    . Racing Brakes

    - TUNING
    . SUSPEMSION /////// BRAKE DISCS & CALIPERS
    . 111 (F) Ride Height (R) 131 /////// 6 (F) / (R) 4
    . 6,31 (F) Spring Rate (R) 11,78
    . 7 (F) Dampers (comp:) (R) 6
    . 8 (F) Dampers (ext:) (R) 8
    . 5 (F) Anti-roll Bars (R) 6

    - CAMBER ANGLE(-)
    . 4,3 (f) / (r) 2,7
    - TOE ANGLE
    . -0,19 (f) / +0,33

    - TRANSMISSION
    . Final gear = 4,341
    . 270 km/h
    . 1ª 2,886
    . 2ª 1,887
    . 3ª 1,292
    . 4ª 1,000
    . 5ª 0,762

    - LSD
    . 00 / 11
    . 00 / 12
    . 00 / 05

    - power limiter = 92,9 %
    - NOTE:good car very difficult to test the patience of the testers.
    [​IMG]





     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
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  27. krenkme

    krenkme

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    Hummmm. Fun car to drive, may have to see what I can do with it (time permitting) :dopey:
     
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  28. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    @XS, Here is the tune for 450PP :

    Lancia Stratos HF Stradale 450PP version

    Lancia Stratos HF Stradale - special build at 450PP
    Comfort Soft to Sports Soft




    CAR : LANCIA STRATOS '73
    Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Soft


    Specs
    Horsepower: 252 HP / 255 PS at 7200 RPM
    Torque : 207.7 ft-lb at 4700 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 98.9%
    Weight: 980 kg
    Ballast : 99 kg
    Ballast Position : -48
    Weight Distribution : 46 / 54 - as in real life street version spec.
    Performance Points: 450

    GT AUTO
    Oil change
    Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED ) - OPTIONAL - I have one built with this installed - works great on ABS 0.
    Aero Kits Type A
    Rear Wing - NO WING
    Other Part A ( lights )
    Wheels : Standard Size - PDI P525N in GT6 Matte 018
    Car Paint : GT6 Metallic 012 Anniversary Deep Blue


    Tuning Parts Installed :
    Sports Computer
    Racing Exhaust
    Intake Tuning
    Catalytic Converter Sports
    Twin Plate Clutch
    Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission
    Adjustable LSD
    Fully Customizable Suspension
    Weigh Reduction Stage 2
    Window Weight Reduction



    Suspension - Gr4 Eibach ERS Springs and Bilstein Damper Coilover Kit ( 450/475 )
    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 120 120
    Spring Rate: 8.00 8.48
    Dampers (Compression): 6 7
    Dampers (Extension): 6 6
    Anti-Roll Bars: 5 4
    Camber Angle: 0.0 0.0
    Toe Angle: 0.10 0.10

    Alternative suspension setup for bumpy track :

    Ride Height: 130 130
    Spring Rate: 8.00 8.48
    Dampers (Compression): 6 4
    Dampers (Extension): 6 3
    Anti-Roll Bars: 6 4
    Camber Angle: 0.0 0.0
    Toe Angle: 0.10 0.10

    LSD - 2 way ZF Plate based LSD low lock, medium preload
    Initial Torque : 20
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 24
    Braking Sensitivity: 24 -increase to 30/37 to reduce brake lift off oversteer if necessary.


    DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - Gr4 Rally Gearset with stock Final Gear
    Install all power parts
    Set Default
    Set Final to 4.000
    Set Auto Max Speed to 240kmh / 149mph
    Adjust each gear :
    1st 3.143
    2nd 2.240
    3rd 1.762
    4th 1.417
    5th 1.154
    Set Final : 3.824 ( Adjust final according to track if necessary )


    Brake Balance:
    8/6 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 8/6, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

    Recommended setting for DS3 user :

    Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 8/6 brake balance as starting point.





    Notes :
    I have this Stratos since release day, used often on cruise lobby online on lesser state of tune. I decided to tune up to 450PP. The weight kept at stock level, with weight distribution fixed to replicate real life car spec ( HF Stradale ). I removed the rear spoiler and installed rally style front lights :D

    Using Gr4 spec suspension, LSD and gearing. Suspension comes from Eibach Gr 4 ERS springs, Bilstein Damper with conservative 450/475 spring rate, while LSD from Gr 4 ZF plate based LSD with max lock set at 40%. For gearing, I used Gr 4 Stratos HF Rally close ratio gearset to make sure the engine stays on the sweet spot range.

    With the tune, this Stratos HF Stradale is able to lap Tsukuba in easy consistent 1:05s on comfort soft even on stock gearing, with a best lap of 1:04s :eek: The tune works on comfort soft and below if you are a throttle master ;), all sports tire and also has been tested on racing hard with good result.

    Tuned and tested at Tsukuba, Bathurst, Big Willow, Nurb GP/F and Nordschleife :D The car is pretty stable, with good rotation, always brake smoothly, apply a bit of throttle when lifting the brakes to avoid excessive rotation. When the car pushes/understeer, reduce throttle - do not lift off all of a sudden, modulate at around 50%, this will make the car rotate smoothly. And lastly, do not jerk the steering when on a curve or driving at high speed, the car do not like rough steering input :)

    ENJOY :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
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  29. krenkme

    krenkme

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    Well things did not turn out like I'd hoped​

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Maybe this weekend :dopey:
     
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  30. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Its almost there honestly, it just needs a little bit more turning and a little less turning over
     
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