Difficult Car Spotlight - Lancia Stratos

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by XS, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,646
    We all have tuning goals, I love doing replicas and replicating real world tuning, I enjoyed it so much now in GT6, much better than GT5, but back then hybrid was my forte :lol:, still can't beat Devil Z replica battling at SSR7 or AMS Alpha Omega replica taking names in high speed battle :lol:
     
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  2. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    Ridox2JZGTE
    Statler_and_Waldorf.jpg
    This might be my last review, I'm only 1:123 seconds off in the Clio seasonal and 2.900 off in the Roadster Seasonal and I really want to finish as high up as I can, so I'll have to put up more time on my tunings and driving just to gain maybe 1/2 a second. But I did take the time to try one of your two tunings you posted.
    Before trying this one I really didn't know what to expect and is this a replica of a real Stratos? If it is or not I may never know because the chances of me trying a real one are right now are pretty slim. (I've never seen one before my eyes). Also you mentioned tuned with comfort softs, hem.... skid city here we come. Since you mentioned replica on your data sheet I decided to take it on what I thought to be close to real world driving roads. I chose Special Stage Route 5, Cote d'Azur, and Matterhorn Rotenboden. (and you trusted me with this gem.)

    Special Stage Route 5:This was really like a sunday drive, even with those dreaded tires you chose, I was amazed at the ease it was and could only imagine how it would be with sport soft tires. After one lap I was really comfortable on it, it had grip but not to much that you lose the fun of going through those great curves the have there. Sad to say but I didn't even scratch it.

    Cote d'Azur: Here there were a few problems that didn't appear on the previous track. It was a little bit slippery especially on the curve going down before the chicane, but I did mage to catch it and you only lost your left head light. in the chicane I would have liked it to turn more, can't find the technical word but I'm sure DolHaus if he has the chance to review it will give you the right term. But if a Stratos is supposed to be like that, well we will just have to live with it. Still fun to drive but more challenging than the first track. Again I am still on comfort soft tires. (beurk)

    Matterhorn Rotenboden: What was surprising here is that it seemed to be very precise when turning in the bottom section where you go under the overpass. It's biggest drawback here was if you don't keep the right lane and hit a bump, especially going fast, (well maybe to fast) it's very hard to recuperate from it. That long winding descent cost you the other headlight, those fog lights, the bumper, a dent on the left front side and then a dent on the right front side and the rest is minor. (you may want to check the leaking oil, and it's a three speed now.) I know you had a setting for bumpier tracks, sorry, thought of it after.

    Conclusion: I was expecting something very different, something more difficult to drive, I was very disappointed, just kidding, I really loved this and found it refreshing to see another point of view. I may have a request for you, I have a Subaru Outback 2004, H3.0, automatic, I think it's a four speed, It could be fun to see if you could duplicate that, cause that one I know (no rush), it's just to bad they don't have a track with snow like after a storm, that's when the fun for me starts and hell begins for the rest. It's been great to try these two entries, I know there's one more from you and i think I saw another appear recently but I just don't have the time presently, to many projects going on and to little of me. Have a good day.
     
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  3. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Wow, very detailed and fun to read :D The Stratos is not really a full replica :p, I got datas from Gr4 Stratos owner, not very detailed but enough to give me a start. I would say, it's the closest I can do compared to real life Stratos HF Stradale upgraded with Gr4 suspension, LSD and transmission.

    If you want the Stratos to turn more at Cote d'Azur chicane, you can reduce front toe in to neutral 0.00 or toe out a bit at -0.07, if that doesn't work well, you can lower the front ARB, something like 2/4, 3/4 or 4/4 :D

    If you are interested, try mix the tire to simulate the real life staggered setup, something like CM/CS or SH/SM or SM/SS tires :D We can't change tire width in GT6 :grumpy:

    I might make a Gr4 Rally Stratos replica if have enough dough to buy it :) The Gr4 rally car has much lower weight, more extreme weight distribution as well.

    My suggestion is to run less difference in spring rate like in my tune, something like 6/6.8 or 7/8, or you can try lower rear spring which gives better traction but a bit unstable under braking, say 7/6.

    Damper, here is a simple step that I adapted from the method that I did in real world, start off with all at lowest value, this includes compression, extension, ARB, and zero toe as well as camber. Drive the car on the track where you can be consistent and has variety corners to highlight the car's weakness easily. I would suggest to set the LSD to 5/5/5 first.

    Now, make changes to rear compression only, change to max at 10, and drive for several laps, make a note of how the car handle, go back and reduce by 2, 8 then 6 then 4 and so on, this will take time, so use shorter track if you prefer. Once you feel the rear has better traction and rides the bumps well, continue to adjusting the rear extension, set it at max, then one click higher than compression, then same as compression and 1/2 click lower. Make a note of each setting handling, choose one which gives better stability under acceleration on mid corner and exits. Also pay attention to how the car rotates when braking and turning. Now onto the front damper, with the rear setup done, do the same on the front compression, make a note of each value, how the car behaved under braking, hitting bumps, changing directions and corner entry grip. Set to the value that gives the best feel. Then do the extension, find one that gives good braking ability, less understeer/push on entry.

    Now the damper is done, time for the ARB, as they are set at 1 front and back, the car will have some roll ( depend on the weight, chassis and spring rate strength ). Increase rear to max, and drive the car, notice how the rear has less roll and much more responsive, but usually becomes tight on the limit. Same steps, reduce and drive until you find a value that feels responsive but give the car good rotation. Do the same with front ARB, at max, it should be responsive but very tight when entering mid/high speed, find the spot that balance the response and entry rotation.

    For camber, any value above 0.0 will reduce grip, so use that to your advantage, if you have FF car that still lack in rotation for example, use front 0.0 and rear at 0.5 or above - I don't recommend to go above 1.5, as usually it starts to hit cornering speed and the rear loses grip too easily. For the Stratos, if the front tires is too grippy, use 0.2 for a start, I don't recommend higher than 1.0 as it will be detrimental to front tire grip causing understeer and lower cornering speed.

    Toe : I usually use real world alignment and there's should be no need to use high value if the spring, damper, ARB and camber sorted out. I never use more than toe in or out of 0.30. For FF car, 0.10 toe out or less is usually enough with neutral rear at 0.00. Use both toe in for Stratos - as IRL, Stratos HF Stradale owners used front toe in and neutral rear or same toe in as front ( 1mm to 2mm ), don't go too high as it will induce understeer, 0.15 to 0.19 toe in is more than enough IMO.

    After you feel satisfied, tune the LSD to your liking :) Run higher braking sensitivity to lessen brake lift off oversteer.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
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  4. xande1959

    xande1959

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    patience is a virtue that is acquired over time, lapidary another question that you did with merits, thanks for testing this blue ballerina., but one thing puzzles me. wheel with standard size car behaves better even increasing acceleration sensitivity, I particularly do not like, but then changed Up2 inch wheel the car improved in timed lap in Rome but I could not even blink because this car was more aloof till could use one LSD 11/30/8, but have to have a circuit that use leve.meus finger to tune and nordsh nurburgring ..... rome. madrid. spa.este was in Rome, and nurburgring.muito Turnleft thanks,:cheers::tup:
     
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  5. jules283

    jules283

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    Can you guys try this one out?
    When I first did this tune I thought it was pretty good...but I came back to it later and I was not so sure...so please try...it's at default weight distribution.

    Lancia Stratos AE '73-450PP-Sport Tyres.

    Parts fitted:-

    Full custom suspension-full custom transmission-custom LSD-sports computer-sports exhaust-intake tuning.

    Settings:-

    Power limiter...99.5
    Ride height......100/100
    Spring rate......7.50/5.50
    Comp..............4/4
    Ext..................4/4
    ARB.................4/4
    Camber............0/0
    Toe..................0.0/0.20
    Brakes.............6/7
    LSD.................10/5/11

    Transmission:-

    Fit parts first.
    Max. speed to 174 mph.
    Gear 1............3.0
    Gear 2............2.0
    Gear 3............1.5
    Gear 4............1.2
    Gear 5............1.0
    Final...............3.6

    Try it on sports hard or sports soft and bring extra underwear !
     
  6. XS

    XS Premium

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    Jules, I plan to start my reviews tonight. I'm not sure if I'll get to yours tonight or tomorrow, just depends on how tired I am after work.
     
  7. jules283

    jules283

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    OK.
    Definitely a difficult car. With pretty narrow rear tyres I couldn't balance it in my usual way, with stiffer springs at rear. So I have went the other way and tried to kill some of the oversteer with plenty of front spring.
    Good luck!
     
  8. rams1de

    rams1de

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    451
    @jules283 I tried your tune and found it a slight improvement on handling with stock settings.

    It remains a real challenge to control weight shift from the rear, too much for me, so I spent a lot of the time in a spin. Bear in mind, I'm pants behind the wheel of this thing unless it's given a severe makeover, so don't take this as a sleight on your tune.

    Turn in was very sharp, causing the rear to swing out unless very careful. In general the car felt unstable under braking unless in a perfect straight line. Doesn't like bumps and kerbs, immediately unsettled and once I lost the rear there was no saving it.

    It was good on throttle though, the car came out of corners true and fast. The transmission is very long, so I presume it is set for a track with long straights.

    It's been interesting and fun to try out the tunes. While I've accepted I never be able to drive the Stratos as fast as other 450pp cars in my garage, I'll tune it anyway.

    My aim will be to kill it's original character using ballast, rake, LSD Decel, low rear brake strength, softish springs, stiff front compression and rear extension. I also want to try it as heavy as possible (over 1050 kg?) to see if it the extra power is better for lap times.
     
  9. jules283

    jules283

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    THanks for the feedback.
    I think if I really wanted to cure this car I would resign myself to altering weight distribution... which I don't normally do.
    Good fun though!
     
  10. XS

    XS Premium

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    @praiano63

    Reviewer Info
    DS3
    Nürburgring GP/D - many laps :)

    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : First impression is of mild understeer, but one must remember the Lacia actually carries a lot of speed into the corners. Neutral, grip is excellent. Easy to turn in, zero drama.
    Mid: Easy to hold line and hit apex. Can actually start accelerating this early! Plenty of grip. No drama at all.
    Exit: Easy to exit, no drama. You can tell the rear wants to come around but can't because grip is excellent. Will push off your line if too hard on throttle. Capable of some serious speed exiting the low speed corner.
    Comments: Excellent grip is the main theme of the low speed corner with this tune. Actually makes the driver more confident in the car's ability because you don't have to worry about drama. Neutral, and user friendly.

    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Easy entry, mild understeer, excellent grip. Very user friendly. No drama.
    Mid: Easy to hit apex. Early throttle here may push you wide, but finesse will also give you some very decent speeds through the corner. Neutral, no drama.
    Exit: Again, finesse the throttle to achieve very good exit speeds. Punching the throttle will push the car wide. No drama. You can feel the back end rotating nicely but no oversteer.
    Comments: Midspeed corners feel a lot like low speed corners: easy to negotiate, giving the driver a lot of confidence with the car. Just don't push it hard or it will run wide.

    High Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Easy entry, decent speed. No drama (is this the same car?!), nice and stable.
    Mid: One must use a little less throttle than with the low and mid speed corners here, but this is the Stratos, the fact that you can use ANY throttle mid corner on a high speed corner is amazing.... And addicting.
    Exit: Finesse the throttle early on for great exit speeds. Zero drama! The car just sticks to the road!
    Comments: The car handles high speed corners very well. Too much throttle however can push you wide, but it's easy to recover from. Very stable and user friendly.

    Overall: the car feels amazing considering how it drives stock. Can easily handle comfort tires for those who enjoy them. Driving this tune reminds me a lot of the Caterham, it may seem slow at first, but when you compete a lap and are surprised by the good lap time you can see that the car carries a lot of speed everywhere. It takes a moment to get used to the tune but once you do you can drive it very fast. Braking is excellent. Transmission is excellent. The diff is good for the tune, adjust it higher and the car might feel more aggressive but your lap times fall a little bit. Very good tune, I am definitely saving this one!

    @oppositelock

    Reviewer Info
    DS3
    Circuit de Spa - 8 laps (sorry fell asleep, just got off work)

    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Easy entry, zero drama. Can carry good speed into the corner.
    Mid: Easy to hold line and hit apex. Can throttle up mid corner. Mild understeer if pushed too hard.
    Exit: Easy to exit, no drama. Can give a decent amount of throttle for a very good exit speed. If used with harder tire compounds you can achieve a nice, stable drift. On sports softs it's simply fast!
    Comments: This tune negotiates low speed corners very well and fast too! Some mild understeer if pushed too hard, but no drama overall. Good stability, great grip, easy throttle on or off. Very user friendly too.

    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Easy entry, excellent grip, excellent speed, neutral.
    Mid: Easy to hit apex. Early throttle on is easy, just don't get too excited. Very fast through corner. No drama. Can start a drift if you want to, but that just slows you down here.
    Exit: Easy throttle on - you can actually punch it for a good exit (once again, is this really the Stratos?!). Stable and fun!
    Comments: mid speed corners are addictive with this tune. You simply cannot believe how fast you're taking them, especially in a Stratos!

    High Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Easy entry, decent speed. But occasionally I found myself in a spin. Still can't figure why, but I think it's best to stay away from curbing.
    Mid: Stable, induces a lot of confidence in the driver. The tune is on sports softs, so grip is excellent and there is no worry of oversteer here at all! Every lap feels like you can take mid speed corners a little faster here.
    Exit: Stable, can handle a lot of throttle here. Nice and user friendly, yet still feels natural too.
    Comments: high speed corners with this tune occasionally kill you if you are way too aggressive or hit the curbing. However, if taken smoothly, which isn't hard, you can achieve some staggering speed through sweepers. Once again, the great grip induces a lot of confidence in the driver.

    Overall: I really enjoy this tune. I will be keeping this one too! It has suicidal tendencies if you're being careless, but that isn't such a big deal because it is quite easy to drive smooth! This tune, at 473pp actually beat my RUF 3400S at 520pp around SPA! And that car is fast! This tune can easily handle more power and/or harder tire compounds. Very stable and user friendly. Brakes are good, transmission good, and LSD is good.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
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  11. oppositelock

    oppositelock

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    Great review, thanks! :tup:
     
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  12. Jakedog23

    Jakedog23

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    Deleted
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  13. XS

    XS Premium

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    Wrong thread, but don't worry I'll fix that.
     
  14. Jakedog23

    Jakedog23

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    Oops I just noticed that my bad:confused:
     
  15. rams1de

    rams1de

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    [​IMG]

    Thanks to everyone's contribution, I've managed a tune that brings the Stratos closer to my best 450pp cars at Trial Mountain.

    I can now get consistent low 1:38s and into high 1:37s a few times putting it into my top 5. Not bad, considering I can barely complete a lap with stock settings. The car was tuned a couple of days ago and felt heavier at the front than I remembered when I drove it this morning but the lap times are still there, so I thought I'd add it to the thread.

    It's not perfect by any means, it would be nice if it had better rotation in slow corners and pushes a little when accelerating out of medium speed corners. But the trade off is stability and ultimately faster, more consistent laps - for me at least. And, you can slide safely into and out of corners if you are that way inclined.


    Lancia Stratos Anniversary Edition

    261bhp/1035kg/450pp
    Weight Distribution: 50 | 50
    Tyres: Sports Hard

    Distance Driven: 454.9 miles

    POWER
    Oil Change: No
    Engine Stage: Std
    CPU: Sports
    Exhaust: Semi Racing
    Exhaust Manifold: Std
    Cat: Sports
    Intake Tuning: Std
    Turbo: Normal
    Nitro: No

    Power Limiter: 99.7%

    BODY
    Weight Reduction: Stage 3
    Bonnet: Std
    Windows: Std
    Ballast: 163kg at -50%

    Downforce: 0 | 0


    Drivetrain:
    Custom LSD
    Clutch & Flywheel: Std
    Prop Shaft: Std

    F:
    R: 8 | 10 | 11

    Torque Split: N/a

    Suspension: Fully-Customisable
    RH: 115 | 115
    Spr: 5.11 | 5.73
    Com: 7 | 2
    Ext: 2 | 6
    ARB 6 | 4

    Cam: 0.0 | 0.0
    Toe: 0.10 | 0.35

    Brakes: Racing
    Balance: 7 | 7

    Transmission: Fully-Customisable
    Final: 4.750
    Top Speed 112mph
    1st: 3.186
    2nd: 2.418
    3rd: 1.890
    4th: 1.528
    5th: 1.271
    6th:
    Final: 3.100

    Trial Mountain 1:37.751 SH - 1:33.284 SS
     
  16. XS

    XS Premium

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    @DolHaus
    Reviewer Info:
    DS3
    Matterhorn long course - 5 laps, Laguna Seca - 10 laps

    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Turn in smooth, rear wants to be shifty but LSD Decel holds it in place, easy turn-in.
    Mid: Can take fast, but must be smooth or anticipate some oversteer, which is easily controlled. Don't start accelerating yet.
    Exit: Easy throttle on, have to be gentle and precise or you'll start to oversteer. If you start slide you have two options, lay off throttle and fight the car or perform a nice controlled drift.
    Comments: The car can handle low speed corners fairly well. Easy to control, but you have to be smooth. If you drive it balls-out you'll be drifting quite a lot, but it's still easy to control. Throttle modulation is key with this car.

    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Good turn-in, can carry a decent amount of speed. Go too fast and the rear might start to slide. Easy and predictable.
    Mid: Easy to hit apex, can start easy and fast drift or control the throttle for smooth transition.
    Exit: Easy on the throttle for smooth exit. Moderate oversteer, but easy and controllable.
    Comments: Whether you are driving the car smoothly or drifting around corners it is easy and predictable - and strangely fast. Throttle modulation is a must, but it's not like you have to fight the car, it's just easy.

    High Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Can go fast in, but watch the oversteer. Fairly easy and predictable. Pretty fast too.
    Mid: Pretty easy to hit apex. Once again, can start exit drift here or ease into the throttle for smooth exit. Actually, user friendly is a good first impression.
    Exit: Dift it out, or ease on the throttle for a fairly fast exit. Controllable oversteer, easy to avoid in the high speed corner exit too.
    Comments: The car is easy a predictable in the high speed corner, whether drifting the whole time or driving smoothly. Decent speeds are capable with either one.

    Comments: Reviewing this car is difficult, because I knew I was going to have to write "oversteer" many times and people generally take that badly. However, everything is predictable, controllable, easy, and fast. What this tune is, is a Stratos that is still a Stratos, just with the homicidal tendencies worked out of it. It drives like a Stratos, except easier. DolHaus has turned this car into a Stratos which feels like Stratos Lite - it is easy, fun, predictable, and quite fast. I would recommend this tune to anyone!
     
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  17. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Thank you for the review and I'm glad you enjoyed it. I figured that trying to stop the oversteer would require too many brutal fixes and spoil the characteristics so I just made sure that when it inevitably steps out of line it was easy and predictable to manage. It would probably be a bit faster with a pure grip setup but I think its more of an experience as a touge style car.
     
  18. XS

    XS Premium

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    Congrats on the Tune Of The Week @oppositelock!! Praiano's was a top contender too, but I nominated yours purely because, and no offense, I didn't expect it to be as good as it is! Being a Praiano fan, I always expect his to be good, and they always are. Again no offense to anybody.
     
  19. oppositelock

    oppositelock

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    @XS

    Wow! Thank you, sir. I honestly didn't expect this, I was just curious to see how a Quick Tune would stack up against some of GTP's best tuners. Great job to everybody who took on this difficult challenge.

    :gtpflag:
     
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  20. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Defeated by a computer yet again! This is just like trying to file taxes online lol
     
  21. XS

    XS Premium

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    Lol I certainly wouldn't think of it that way. So far all the tunes I've tested for the Stratos have been within a second or two of each other around almost any track. I'd say that's pretty even keel.
     
  22. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Still stings man, still stings lol
    Either way, getting within a second of an auto-tune is an achievement I suppose. Always next time
     
  23. XS

    XS Premium

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    It may have been faster ;).
     
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  24. oppositelock

    oppositelock

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    Don't feel bad dude, I had a 23 PP advantage after all. :mischievous:
     
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  25. XS

    XS Premium

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    Both tunes work well at nearly any pp level. :tup: When I test I like to see how far I can push the tune, PP wise, tire compound wise, and competition wise. So far I'm extremely impressed by both your tunes, as well as others here, and I hope others are too. I'd say this difficult thread has been quite the success!
     
  26. Jakedog23

    Jakedog23

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    Hey since April is upon us I believe it I time to decide a new Car of the Month. What do you guys think.
     
  27. XS

    XS Premium

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  28. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Nah don't worry mate, I'm just being a sore loser lol I genuinely thought I had a chance of beating Mr P for the first time! Congratulations on your win, hope to see you in the next event
     
  29. XS

    XS Premium

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    @Jakedog23
    Reviewer Info:

    DS3
    Matterhorn long course - 8 laps, Indy Road Course - 6 laps

    Low Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Must turn in somewhat slowly, if you try to go in fast you'll be met with moderate understeer.
    Mid: Must drive through smoothly, and somewhat slowly in order to avoid understeer and on-throttle oversteer. Can transition nicely if driven carefully.
    Exit: Easy throttle on, have to be gentle and precise or you'll start to oversteer.
    Comments: The key to this car is learning to be gentle with it. It's not slow per say, but requires a gentle touch to avoid both understeer and oversteer in low speed corners. However, I found it to be easy to learn and be confident quickly.

    Mid Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Gentle turn-in, can carry a decent amount of speed. Go too fast and the rear might start to slide or you might understeer wide.
    Mid: Apex is easy to hit if you're smooth. Going too fast will result in pushing wide or on-throttle oversteer.
    Exit: Somewhat easy on the throttle for smooth exit, but you can punch it most of the time. The car wants to oversteer on many corners, but it is controllable, or you can turn it into a drift.
    Comments: Mid-speed corners can be had harder and faster than low speed corners in this car. Exit's are fairly easy as the LSD is set low (which I like).

    High Speed Corner:
    Entry
    : Go fast in, some oversteer, but manageable.
    Mid: Pretty easy to hit apex. Can start to accelerate here without any drama.
    Exit: Car handles high-speed exits brilliantly. There is little drama. You sort of expect the back to step out at a moments notice, but it grip is just good enough that it never does.
    Comments: This tune negotiates high speed corners the best. It is a decent match for Brands Hatch, Laguna Seca, or even Grand Valley short course. The back stays in place at speed, unless you're pushing it way too hard.

    Comments: I struggled to like this tune right off the bat, but once I learned that this car requires a gentle, yet predictable touch, I starting having a lot of fun with it. I never found it to be homicidal like others did, but mainly because you have to learn it's limits quickly but once you do it's Easy Street from here on out. You can be fairly careless with the throttle as the LSD is set pretty low, which is usually how I like mine anyway. Sometimes it does result in pushing wide in corners instead of digging in. The car doesn't handle tight courses well, but makes up for it by blasting around courses such as Brands Hatch, Laguna Seca, Grand Valley, and even Ascari. I would recommend this tune to everybody, except maybe the noobiest of GT6 players.
     
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  30. Jakedog23

    Jakedog23

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    Yes this car is not for the faint hearted.