Discuss All American Muscle Cars Here. ( More Mustangs, Pontiacs and Chevys)

[TheCracker]

You'll are such good americans. Studying cars that are worthless. And Chrysler isn't american any more. Its all Germen. Mercedes made it a ****ty company than it was before. Come on, defend yourselfs like a couple of rednecks standing inline to go to a country music concert. No that turning left sport known as NASCAR would fit better.
Damn, Americans with American pride.

..can't argue with such a well thought-out and writen arguement like this can you!

you might as well close this thread right now - Darin has summed it all up so eloquently

 

[Darin]

No... Its too much. I never wanted to know so much about some muscle cars with no performance value.

 

[ratnin]

Originally Posted by 98cobra

The Evo's and WRX's are almost already maxed out from the factory with their turbos with 15 and 19lbs of boost.

You're pretty much right about that. Getting much more, reliably, would require better intercooling, a larger turbo capable of 25lbs. of boost, deep dish forged pistons, lock-wire head/block machining and significantly reinforced/worked internals (h-beam rods, forged/balance crank, ARP fasteners, blueprinting, port and polish) - all of which would cost a pretty penny. You'd need all that to help control any damage from detonation. For those unfamiliar with the term, detonation is caused by too much boost, too little intercooling, improper fuel mixture, too little octane or too far advanced igniton timing). The spark plug actually begins igniting the fuel mixture while the piston is still travelling upwards in the cylinder bore before the piston reaches TDC (top dead center). This is done so the flame front expands just as the piston begins its downstroke.
basically means that the piston. If things aren't perfect the expanding gases will meet the piston on the upstroke and blow a hole in the top of the piston. As an interesting side note, '87-'92 Mustang 5.0s like mine came with forged pistons so strong that in the case of severe detonation the explosion will often actually lift the heads, stretching the head studs, and blow the head gasket rather than blowing a hole in the piston. That's American V8 muscle for ya.

Originally Posted by 98cobra

The 390hp 03 cobra has only 8 pounds of boost. Now give that thing 19lbs of boost and see what happens.

Similar to the above example, I don't think even the Cobra could take 19#s without serious help. I understand your point though. The good thing is that you wouldn't need 19#'s in the Cobra. The Cobra's supercharging is actually very ineffiecent and the stock 8#'s aren't fully utilized. The supercharger takes considerable power to even operate (maybe 80hp) that's why you see Cobra owners bolting on more efficent twin screw Kenne Bell blowers at the same boost levels and putting out around 500hp (rumors are Ford will change to thse superchargers in the near future). Turbochargers are even more effiecent, as they are driven by exhaust heat and not directly from the engine like a supercharger. Thats why you see otherwise stock 5.0L 225hp Mustangs making 450-500hp with twin turbos at 10#'s of boost and good intercooling. If you were to swap a '03 Cobra's ineffiecnt roots supercharger out for twin turbos pumping 12#-14#'s of boost with good intercooling the results would be down right scary. 650-700hp wouldn't suprise me. Considering the Cobra's factory forged crank, cross bolted mains, h-beam rods, dished forged pistons and 6 bolt iron block it just might work.

Originally Posted by 98cobra

There's no replacement for displacement.

I couldn't agree more. If you start out with a bigger engine in the first place then you can still resort to super/turbocharging later and blowers favor larger displacement engines.

 

[TheCracker]

All these arguements about the tuning capabilities of the Mustang over the subaru/mitsis' don't cover the mustangs greatest flaw - they don't do corners. This fact is irrelivant if you are only doing drag-racing - but since GranTurismo doesn't have any drag racing - the arguement is pointless. In the realm of GranTurismo - a mustang is never going to beat one of the Japanese twins, because they are no good on a circuit.

 

[ratnin]

Originally Posted by Darin

You'll are such good americans. Studying cars that are worthless....

Come on, defend yourselfs like a couple of rednecks standing inline to go to a country music concert. No that turning left sport known as NASCAR would fit better.
Damn, Americans with American pride.

I thought we established that you weren't even old enough to drive. Regardless your automotive expertise on the subject matter is greatly appreciated.

 

[camaro454]

hey "ford 429" dont forget what ford stands for
FOUND
ON
ROAD
DEAD

i know its an old joke but it still fits

im driving a 69 camaro SS with a 454 and im glad you changed your oil and air filters 6 months ago

i'd rather push a chevy then drive a ford and cant wait to race you with my 69 in november

 

[phantasm]

When I think British I think Minis, 6 volt/positive ground electrical systems, straight 6's and policy chases around a round-about. I'm starting to feel sick now....

When you think British start thinking proper... Aston Martin, Noble, TVR, Jaguar, Lotus, and the bling champ Bentley.

Sure lots of compact cars are popular in Britain and Europe, but when you pay their rates for gas and saw their narrow roads you'd quickly understand why.

Yes Mustangs have their place in GT, and should have more than 1, especially in a game trying to capture the essence of automotive history, but stop going on and on that it's the greatest car ever cause i can work on it in my garage.

Ford 429 Hemi... if you've ever driven in a Ferrari or even sat in one you'd know why they cost what they do... it isn't just about performance, the fit and finish is lightyears above what the Mustang could ever even dream of.

ratnin... your "The only modern day 'muscle' car is the Pontiac GTO" is actually the Australian Holden Monaro rebranded Pontiac.

another thought... it's also important to note that none of Ford's significant racing results have come from a Mustang. The GT-40 has much more of a storied race history, and the Focus in WRC has made more of an impact in pro motorsports in it's short history than the mustang.

 

[TheCracker]

Does Chevy or Dodge have any LeMan's victories? I don't mean in class victories either. I mean an out and out win! Like the 1-2-3 Finish from the GT-40s.....

Ford owes almost all its 'competition history' to the europeans, mostly the British arm of Ford.

 

[98cobra]

You'll are such good americans. Studying cars that are worthless. And Chrysler isn't american any more. Its all Germen. Mercedes made it a ****ty company than it was before. Come on, defend yourselfs like a couple of rednecks standing inline to go to a country music concert. No that turning left sport known as NASCAR would fit better.
Damn, Americans with American pride.

Aren't you American?

 

[Lethalchem]

Well said. What Mustangs have you owned Lethalchem?

1969 Mustang Convertible V8
1987 GT V8 (mufflers)
1993 GT Convertible V8 (stock)
1988 GT V8 (Bolt-on's, gears, and N20)
1990 LX Hatch V8 (Carburated 306, bolt-on's, gears, roll bar, thumping cam)
1987 LX Hatch V8 (Gears and mild bolt-on's)
1990 LX Convertible Anniversay Ed V8 (mufflers)
1998 SVT Cobra (Gears, exhaust, clutch/flywheel, springs)
2003 SVT Cobra (SC pulley swap, Diablo, CAI, Magnaflow CB, short throw etc...)

 

[98cobra]

All these arguements about the tuning capabilities of the Mustang over the subaru/mitsis' don't cover the mustangs greatest flaw - they don't do corners. This fact is irrelivant if you are only doing drag-racing - but since GranTurismo doesn't have any drag racing - the arguement is pointless. In the realm of GranTurismo - a mustang is never going to beat one of the Japanese twins, because they are no good on a circuit.

I thought the Mustang SVT Cobra R handled pretty well for it's weight factor. Give it a racing suspension and it will handle like a dream.

 

[Darin]

I thought we established that you weren't even old enough to drive. Regardless your automotive expertise on the subject matter is greatly appreciated.

Who's "we?" I'm 16, kid. And I drive. I got the permit 2 days ago, and I can trash talk about a mustang if I feel. Its not againest the AUP and TOS. RATnin, you are a complete idiot. From what I see, you think you're intelligent, sadly the image you send is another 12 year n00b trying to attack me over the net. I'm over you kid, watch who you talk to.

 

[Darin]

Aren't you American?

yes, and I have no american pride within me. I'm gonna move straight to europe sometime within my life.

 

[Lethalchem]

Seriously, some "muscleheads" are too arrogant towards other types of car. It isn't the end of the world because you praise a Honda, Toyota, TVR, Opel, or anything like that and you're an American. It just means that more people have different tastes in cars and that not all cars were meant to conquer ovals and drag strips. So what I'm saying is... GO EASY ON THEM!

All I see is people going out of their way to insult an American car. I don't see it going the other way around. As stated previously by me, I have a love for anything that can perform well. My local car club is full of a wide variety of vehicles. I don't fault anyone for their preferences, but don't tell other people their preferences a piles of ****.

 

[Robin]

drools.......................................................Please be in GT4, You have the GT40.....so please have this!!!

 

[98cobra]

All I see is people going out of their way to insult an American car. I don't see it going the other way around. As stated previously by me, I have a love for anything that can perform well. My local car club is full of a wide variety of vehicles. I don't fault anyone for their preferences, but don't tell other people their preferences a piles of ****.

That's exactly what I'm seeing. You can't just trash anyones preference of cars. If you don't have nothing positive to say, don't say anything at all when it comes to a peoples personal car preference; that's how fights start.

 

[Lethalchem]

I never wanted to know so much about some muscle cars with no performance value.

Feel free to remove yourself from any further disussions then. 👍

 

[Lethalchem]

Similar to the above example, I don't think even the Cobra could take 19#s without serious help.

The engine can handle 19 just fine. The fuel system and MAF simply needs updraging, that's it. Stock stuff maxes out around 500rwhp.

If you were to swap a '03 Cobra's ineffiecnt roots supercharger out for twin turbos pumping 12#-14#'s of boost with good intercooling the results would be down right scary. 650-700hp wouldn't suprise me. Considering the Cobra's factory forged crank, cross bolted mains, h-beam rods, dished forged pistons and 6 bolt iron block it just might work.

Ported Eaton's are making 500+rwhp, edging 600 with cams and worked heads. Kenne Bell's are commonly laying down 620-640rwhp. The block can handle it, all you need is upgrades to the supporting mechanisms. We don't even have to get into what a tiny shot of N20 does to the power numbers. 👍

 

[Darin]

Feel free to remove yourself from any further disussions then. 👍

I'm removing myself from this to avoid trouble from any mod's. I think the best choice right now.

 

[sUn]

The mustang is a fine car, fine indeed. Darin if you hate it, you could post in a against-mustang thread or something not really bash them in there own thread.Where we are trying to discuss the best american car on the market.

Not saying the 2003/4 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 in Blue doesn't pwn! 👍

 

[Kent]

All members involved in this thread take note:

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Also...

You will, if asked by a representative of the Forums, cease posting any content, and/or links to content, deemed offensive, objectionable, or in poor taste by the staff of the Forums.

What I am asking is that all flaming and "disrespectful arguing" is brought to a voluntary end by those participating.

Have fun with the thread, and please don't make me come back.
Remember, everyone wants the gt4 forum cleaned up, so that's what us mods are gonna do.

 

[Lethalchem]

Not saying the 2003/4 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 in Blue doesn't pwn! 👍

Yeah, they're cool cars too! Here's proof that both can get along . Here's a pic of my car and my friend's torch red ZO6 at a local autocross:

 

[sUn]

Please don't tell me you own a 03' Mustang Cobra. Please don't.

 

[98cobra]

Nice color. 👍

 

[Lethalchem]

Please don't tell me you own a 03' Mustang Cobra. Please don't.

Ok. How about I just say, "See sig"?

 

[Ford 429 Hemi]

Well I hope things will cool down here now. BBut before they do I just gotta say...
the new GTO, muscle car? (snickers) The Stang outpowers, outacelerates, and is way better on the handling end. Only thing the GTO does better is the interior, but hey! Muscle cars shoudn't have snazzy interiors. The A/C (maby), a radio, and maby comfy seats, but no ON-Star, or special interior trim, hell jsut rip that crap out and drive it like it should be. lol Sorry, but I can't stand how Road & Track called the new GTO better than the 2003-2004 Cobra becuase of the bloody interior and gas milage.....two things that don't matter in the world of performance. An dyes they said it would be a performance comparo, well On-star doesn't make it go faster........

 

[Ford 429 Hemi]

Oh and for the record, yes I have heard of Mosler, they make cars that use corvette engines and drivetrain with a different body..... And Panoz, gues who owns them..... FORD! Yeah they make good cars too, but do ya ever see any of them around on the streets? And yeah I know of TVR and all these companies who produce high end cars. I am in Autobody! I can prolly tell ya how to take mostof these things apart. lol I may not paint a large # of these cars, but our shop goes to the Boston Auto Show every year. Basically all the same stuff as the NAIAS, but without the big premeir stage. And all of the big names are there! Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, RuF, TVR, Mosler (occasionaly), Panoz, BMW, Anston Martin, Seat, Opel, Smart, Mercedes, Mclaren, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, Datsun, and more still! And some of em even sow the cars in several peices and show you what is underneath the body....

 

[YoshiXL]

Why is this vheicle being ignored?! or am i missing something legal or some crap? that car seriously needs to be in the game and especially that nice one with the blue rims! that one ownz. any clue as to why this hasnt made it to GT??

 

[Iceman]

Not a great car but would be a nice inclusion.

 

[Slick6]

I wouldn't mind the last Trans-Am. The collector's edition one that's yellow with the black rims.