Do you believe in God?

  • Thread starter Patrik
  • 24,085 comments
  • 1,007,344 views

Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 616 30.5%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 18.2%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,035 51.3%

  • Total voters
    2,018
I would say that "proof" is different from "reasoning". I'm in my basement, getting my game on, and my buddy comes over and says, "Hey, it's nice out side, lets get our mountain bikes and hit the trail!". I have no proof that he is telling me the truth, but I have reason to believe him and I go upstairs.

You're using belief colloquially. It is not used that way in religion. This is semantic sleight of hand. I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, but that's what it is.

"My buddy says bigfoot is on my porch, but I won't see it unless I believe it, with every fiber of my being, and know, as deeply as one can know, that bigfoot is there".

It's circular. If you believe as deeply as religion commands that bigfoot is on your porch, you will see bigfoot. Because otherwise, you did not believe as deeply as was required.
 
Okay, but it's easy enough to test.

Also, it is not a crazy idea that it might be nice outside. I need very little evidence to believe such a statement, therefore I think it is sufficient to trust their eyewitness account.

Besides, there is a pretty big difference in belief of it being nice outside vs an all powerful being creating the universe and all of humanity.

I was just pointing out that there is a difference between scientific proof and reasoning. Do you see my point?

You're using belief colloquially. It is not used that way in religion. This is semantic sleight of hand. I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, but that's what it is.

"My buddy says bigfoot is on my porch, but I won't see it unless I believe it, with every fiber of my being, and know, as deeply as one can know, that bigfoot is there".

It's circular. If you believe as deeply as religion commands that bigfoot is on your porch, you will see bigfoot. Because otherwise, you did not believe as deeply as was required.

I can't really say I'm using "belief colloquially" or not; that's an interesting thought and certainly something I should further explore. What I do know from my own walk of faith, is it didn't come over night. Maybe when I was younger I was told "believe this" and I probably did even though I didn't understand what it was I was believing in. I can say I have not always believed in God or the existence of God, but through my own journey or spiritual walk if you will, I have come to believe that God does in fact exist and is a driving force in my life. Now, I can no more say to you that God exists as you can say to me God does not exist. You can tell me there is no scientific proof that God exists and I would have to agree, but that is where this conversation has been circular for as long as we have been free thinking individuals. For myself, I don't need scientific proof to believe in something, but I have my own personal experience as well as others that share similar experiences that enforces my own belief. If you need scientific proof for belief in something, is it really a belief or is it just accepting fact as truth? Belief can be synonymous with faith. I can say that if you need scientific proof for all acceptance of truth, then you do not believe in anything. I don't mean that to sound condescending in any way, but if you live by science alone, there is no room for a belief system, only facts that can be proven by science.
 
For myself, I don't need scientific proof to believe in something

Yes you do. For everything except God, you do. You've decided to make a singular exception to that rule for your faith in God. But you don't believe in unicorns, in Nessie, in cranes that bring babies to their expecting parents, in pots of gold at the end of rainbows, in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or in any other deities other than your chosen one.

I can say that if you need scientific proof for all acceptance of truth, then you do not believe in anything.

That is something we atheists have spent far too much time in this thread trying to get people to understand. You're right, we don't believe in anything. We have knowledge, supported by objective, factual evidence. Anything currently unanswerable with such evidence, we say "I don't know." It's okay to not know things. We don't need to fill in those blanks in our knowledge with beliefs.
 
Yes you do. For everything except God, you do. You've decided to make a singular exception to that rule for your faith in God. But you don't believe in unicorns, in Nessie, in cranes that bring babies to their expecting parents, in pots of gold at the end of rainbows, in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or in any other deities other than your chosen one.

That is not true. Where is your scientific proof of that? If you tell me that you believe in unicorns, and I had no reason to believe otherwise, I would have to believe that you in fact believe in unicorns with no scientific proof to prove me otherwise. You are right though, I do not believe in all those other things that you listed, I have no reason to.

That is something we atheists have spent far too much time in this thread trying to get people to understand. You're right, we don't believe in anything. We have knowledge, supported by objective, factual evidence. Anything currently unanswerable with such evidence, we say "I don't know." It's okay to not know things. We don't need to fill in those blanks in our knowledge with beliefs.

I can see why you can't believe me when I tell you that I believe in God, because there is no scientific proof for my belief. Again, you don't believe in anything. It's ok to say, "I don't know". The sheer mathematics of how small we are in the universe tells us that there is an inconceivable amount of 'things' that science has yet to prove. It's ok to wonder and seek answers.
 
Yes you do. For everything except God, you do. You've decided to make a singular exception to that rule for your faith in God.

That is not true.
You are right though, I do not believe in all those other things that you listed, I have no reason to.

dd0.jpg
 
So engaging in open discussion and thought process other than your own is not encouraged. Got it.

Engaging in discussion is obviously the point here. The problem is that your post didn't make any sense.

First you say this:

Yes you do. For everything except God, you do. You've decided to make a singular exception to that rule for your faith in God. But you don't believe in unicorns, in Nessie, in cranes that bring babies to their expecting parents, in pots of gold at the end of rainbows, in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or in any other deities other than your chosen one.
That is not true.

Two sentences later, you say:

You are right though, I do not believe in all those other things that you listed, I have no reason to.

You contradicted yourself completely.

The rest of your post is a baffling mix of repeating things I said to you, and statements that don't seem to be in response to anything I said.
 
So engaging in open discussion and thought process other than your own is not encouraged. Got it.
The question I have is that if you don’t have a belief in the other things that were listed, why have a belief in one, and only one god.

What makes the difference given that the standard of evidence is the same for all of them.
 
The question I have is that if you don’t have a belief in the other things that were listed, why have a belief in one, and only one god.

What makes the difference given that the standard of evidence is the same for all of them.

Hey Scaff, long time. As I mentioned before, I have my own personal experience as well as others that share similar experiences that enforces my own belief. The Bible is also a huge part of that re-enforcement of that belief.

Engaging in discussion is obviously the point here. The problem is that your post didn't make any sense.
You contradicted yourself completely.

No, I didn't contradict myself. You said "For EVERYTHING except God you do" and then listed a small handful of examples. I agreed that your small handful of examples I do not believe in, but already gave 2 other examples that were not about a belief in God. Your small handful of examples does not include "EVERYTHING". I'm sorry that you "believe" the rest of my post is a baffling mix of repeating things you said to me, and statements that don't seem to be in response to anything you said.
 
Last edited:
Your small handful of examples does not include "EVERYTHING".
But you don't believe in unicorns, in Nessie, in cranes that bring babies to their expecting parents, in pots of gold at the end of rainbows, in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or in any other deities other than your chosen one.
This isn't a small handful as it includes every deity who isn't God.

It might be a small handful for the Buddha, though.



The five pillars were her fingers.
 
Last edited:
This isn't a small handful as it includes every deity who isn't God.

Honestly I missed that part. I've read unicorns and flying spaghetti monsters used as a comparison to God so many times in this thread that I overlooked the end of that sentence. By bad. I doesn't change my statement that I have other beliefs besides my belief in God that is not scientifically proven. He is correct that I do not believe in any other deity besides my God, although I do have speculations of some of the other origins, but that is not for this thread and would rather save that for campfire discussion under the stars with good company.
 

For example, if I was strictly dependent on scientific evidence to form conclusions I of course would have to assess and evaluate that evidence to arrive at a conclusion. I would not let any other reasoning effect my process. With that said, if my buddy did come into my basement and said, "Hey, it's nice outside, lets grab our gear and hit the mountain!", before I agreed to doing that, I would have to go outside and evaluate the weather myself before I agreed to doing that. However, me being me, and with no reason to doubt my buddy, I would agree to go because I believed that what he was telling me to be true. Now granted, that is an oversimplification of what we are talking about here, and I would surely have that evidence once I looked outside to be able to confirm my belief, but isn't that not that far away from what we are doing in life? When I die, if my belief is correct, I will have my undeniable confirmation about my belief if I'm correct. If my belief is wrong, I really can't speculate with any certainty what happens. There's all kinds of theories but there is no scientific evidence of a soul and medically speaking we are just brain dead and the essence of our being just ceases to exist. Science can speculate why the human body weighs less after the body function stops, people have reported out of body experiences when they have died and have been revived, but there is no unequivocal scientific explanation. Did that answer your question on my thoughts and opinion?
 
I think this is taking things to absurd lengths. Carl Sagan said extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Planning a hiking trip isn't extraordinary.
 
For example, if I was strictly dependent on scientific evidence to form conclusions I of course would have to assess and evaluate that evidence to arrive at a conclusion. I would not let any other reasoning effect my process. With that said, if my buddy did come into my basement and said, "Hey, it's nice outside, lets grab our gear and hit the mountain!", before I agreed to doing that, I would have to go outside and evaluate the weather myself before I agreed to doing that. However, me being me, and with no reason to doubt my buddy, I would agree to go because I believed that what he was telling me to be true. Now granted, that is an oversimplification of what we are talking about here, and I would surely have that evidence once I looked outside to be able to confirm my belief, but isn't that not that far away from what we are doing in life? When I die, if my belief is correct, I will have my undeniable confirmation about my belief if I'm correct. If my belief is wrong, I really can't speculate with any certainty what happens. There's all kinds of theories but there is no scientific evidence of a soul and medically speaking we are just brain dead and the essence of our being just ceases to exist. Science can speculate why the human body weighs less after the body function stops, people have reported out of body experiences when they have died and have been revived, but there is no unequivocal scientific explanation. Did that answer your question on my thoughts and opinion?

And now we're back to this:

You're using belief colloquially. It is not used that way in religion. This is semantic sleight of hand. I'm not saying you're doing it on purpose, but that's what it is.

So, no, that didn't answer my question. Can you give me an example of something in your life that you believe to be true but is impossible to verify via repeatable, objective observation?
 
So, no, that didn't answer my question. Can you give me an example of something in your life that you believe to be true but is impossible to verify via repeatable, objective observation?

I believe I did answer your question, but you believe I didn't. Not quite sure what you're looking for. I'll see if I can oblige. Ok, how about any belief that has to do with maters of the heart. I'm not talking medically, but emotionally. Does your father love you? Regardless of your answer, it can't be qualified scientifically can it?
 
I believe I did answer your question, but you believe I didn't. Not quite sure what you're looking for. I'll see if I can oblige. Ok, how about any belief that has to do with maters of the heart. I'm not talking medically, but emotionally. Does your father love you? Regardless of your answer, it can't be qualified scientifically can it?

Sure it can. Across people of all races, ethnicities, genders, orientations, etc., feelings of love are accompanied by predictable physiological markers. Some hormones increase, others decrease. Certain areas of the brain become more active in the presence of a loved one. There's plenty of science out there on "matters of the heart," if you're so inclined to seek it out.
 
Sure it can. Across people of all races, ethnicities, genders, orientations, etc., feelings of love are accompanied by predictable physiological markers. Some hormones increase, others decrease. Certain areas of the brain become more active in the presence of a loved one. There's plenty of science out there on "matters of the heart," if you're so inclined to seek it out.

I read that article too. ;) Scientific journals also say that these findings are subjective and not inclusive.

it’s all good.
 
I read that article too. ;) Scientific journals also say that these findings are subjective and not inclusive.

it’s all good.

What article? I didn’t cite any particular source, and there are many out there on this topic. If you don’t really want a discussion on this, that’s fine, but spare me whatever this condescending attempt to wave me off is.
 
What article? I didn’t cite any particular source, and there are many out there on this topic. If you don’t really want a discussion on this, that’s fine, but spare me whatever this condescending attempt to wave me off is.

Thought you were referencing this: https://www.atheist-faq.com/can-you-prove-that-love-exists

Trust me, if I’m condescending I will give you enough facts so you can make an informed decision. Fair?
 
I have no intention of turning the God thread into the UFO thread.
Yet here you are making grandiose and unverifiable claims...
A few of the easily accessible sources you may find for yourself already published in other areas of our forum:

- New York Times (high reputation and fact checked) numerous articles on this topic since 2017.
- US Navy official statements, official rules requiring reports of encounters, unofficial statements from officers and sailors on widespread media
- US Department of Defense official statements and videos
- Bipartisan US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence statement and published pending legislation requiring investigation and disclosure
- Scientific American article written by prominent scientists calling for concerted global investigation
- CNN TV news reading subject as reality
- Forbes news treating subject as reality
- Politico news treating subject as reality
Where do these publications state that there "is on Earth a higher intelligence with God-like powers"?

What are "God-like powers"?

No official, commercial or widely published private source I know of is denying the reality of the phenomenon.
What official, commercial, or widely published private source is claiming the reality of "a higher intelligence with God-like powers".
 
Here are the God-like powers
Sounds like a pretty crappy deity. In fact it sounds like Iron Man.

Where's the omniscience or the ability to create anything (except paradoxes) and do anything (but utter unwillingness to do so)? Hell, even a conjuring up a plague of locusts would be an improvement on "can fly fast, but also underwater, and might be invisible".

I have no intention of turning the God thread into the UFO thread.
Unlike any known aircraft, these objects ... witnesses describe the crafts ... the objects may ... many UFO accounts ... when objects are observed ... some UAP have ... witnesses described a UFO ... another craft ... that a craft was moving
Boy, you overcame those misgivings quickly. You accelerated from no intention to literally doing it so fast that no human pilot could survive the g-forces...

Still waiting for "an official, commercial, or widely published private source" claiming the reality of "a higher intelligence with God-like powers".
 
Back