Do you still support PD?

  • Thread starter Thread starter tecknical
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Wow, people really can be heavily negative when their feelings seem to have been broken by a Videogame developer, yes, A VIDEOGAME!

Internet serious business
 
I support them. It's the best racing game, maybe not by much, but when in full flow it's brilliant.


Of course there are going to be a few things that people are unhappy about. It's very easy to criticise without thinking too much, which a lot of people do. These are probably the same people who have no patience and were pushing to have the game released, which turned out to be a couple of years early, as Kaz said, he would have liked 2 or 3 years more to work on it.

Unless you are referring to online it most certainly is nowhere near the best "racing" game.

No Qualifying, No standing starts, dodgy Ai.

I agree that it is easy to criticise without thinking, that about sums up EVERY post criticising complaints.
 
Wow, people really can be heavily negative when their feelings seem to have been broken by a Videogame developer, yes, A VIDEOGAME!

Internet serious business

What on earth have feelings got to do with anything at all. Compared to the competition GT5 is substandard in any number of ways. Just because some people are not interested in the substandard bits doesn't make it any less important to those that are interested. Most complaints about GT5 would only make the game better, WHY are so many people against GT5 being a better game???
 
i'm loosing my faith with PD.
little history about me:
bought a PS2 for GT3, bought an XBOX 360 for Forza 3, bought a PS3 for GT5.
and just disappointed with the experience of GT5 as a whole, to many races poorly set-up, where a single or few cars are so superiour to any other falling in that class (Chapparal 2J is a great example). the AI is poor at best, i never have the feeling i am racing opponents, good example in this is the midtrack straight at indy roadcourse, in the formula granturismo cup, park it to the right about a third down and you will see each and every single AI car cross the straight from left driving line to the right at exactly the same point.
i almost always play driving games in cockpit view (for realism, feel with the car etc etc) and that a game that names itself the "real driving simulator" lacking over 80% of the cockpit views is just sad.
having to push a button to reverse is another silly thing, maybe only pro driving cars will have such a thing, i know my car doesn't, and playing in a race seat with a driving force GT wheel its almost painfull to back a car and turn at same time.

i had really high hoped for GT5, some were realised, some not. in all honesty, am more working to "finish" the game now and get ready for Forza 4
 
having to push a button to reverse is another silly thing, maybe only pro driving cars will have such a thing, i know my car doesn't, and playing in a race seat with a driving force GT wheel its almost painfull to back a car and turn at same time.

FINALLY someone else saying this!! Ive been saying it for ages, it really is a reality killer for me using the wheel. At least let us wheel users press triangle to get into reverse then press the throttle to actually reverse as it is in reality!! Hated this since my 1st driving force and GT3!
 
I support them. It's the best racing game, maybe not by much, but when in full flow it's brilliant.


Of course there are going to be a few things that people are unhappy about. It's very easy to criticise without thinking too much, which a lot of people do. These are probably the same people who have no patience and were pushing to have the game released, which turned out to be a couple of years early, as Kaz said, he would have liked 2 or 3 years more to work on it.

Wait what? After 5-6 years it is absolutely outrageous to ask the developers where the game is, i know. GT5 Prologue came out in 2007/2008 (2007 for japan) and I thank PD that we had the opportunity to wait over 2 years for the finished product, the masterpiece. PD made this premium cars that look like 10,000 times better than anything in the virtual world and they gifted us those wonderful standard cars without cockpits, which nobody uses anyway and no customisation to them, who the hell would like sport wheels instead of those wonderful 13" plastic rims.

All those, who question the superiority and glory GT5 is and can not see the sparkling perfection in every corner and detail, should straight go to hell and be banned from this galaxy or be punished with a 450 pounds wife for his coitus sessions.

Hail Yamauchi!
 
homeforsummer
Dunno about you, but if I'd been working for six years solid on a game, I'd quite appreciate a bit of time off afterwards rather than cracking on and continuing to appease all those who think six years of work isn't really good enough.

Still, teh internetz should get what teh internetz wants, right?

They can have there 5 weeks annual leave in one block if they want.

How long do you think they deserve off?

I've been working 25yrs with just 5 weeks off average a year. (physical labour)
Around another 25 to go. 28 if the government gets it's way before I get to retire.

How much rest do they need?
 
Imagine the physics engine as a giant Microsoft Excel spreadsheet, where you punch numbers in and out comes a response. The numbers put in can be anything relating to the handling and performance of the car (weight, power, suspension travel); you name it, it has a value that gets entered into said spreadsheet. Complex algorithms are performed by the program, and spits out various other answers from combigning the initial values together. The values that are spat out, are what makes the car handle how it does.

Right on the money 👍

This is why I do not believe that standards differ from premiums in the physics stakes. Online differs slightly, perhaps by using a slimmed down version of the physics engine due to memory resources being tight. Maybe the number of calculations performed per second is reduced resulting in the handling of cars being different to offline.
Hmmm, doesn't look different then what I said, other than wording and layout.

If the values combined are incorrect (because they used a different coding/physics set for GT4) and they have to make "adjustments" to said values, and those adjustments are incorrect, what do you have?
 
becasue ppl could trade cars in previous gt games. amitrite? big step back there.

ps: system that lets you trade. it's a trade system.

gymnopédies is one of the most sublime suites ever written. in a game it only adds to the relaxation.
So, in not so many words, no you don't.

I find your 'visual representation' just as distressing as i agree with your piont of view so ill let it slide..
What?
 
i'm loosing my faith with PD.
little history about me:
bought a PS2 for GT3, bought an XBOX 360 for Forza 3, bought a PS3 for GT5.
and just disappointed with the experience of GT5 as a whole, to many races poorly set-up, where a single or few cars are so superiour to any other falling in that class (Chapparal 2J is a great example). the AI is poor at best, i never have the feeling i am racing opponents, good example in this is the midtrack straight at indy roadcourse, in the formula granturismo cup, park it to the right about a third down and you will see each and every single AI car cross the straight from left driving line to the right at exactly the same point.
i almost always play driving games in cockpit view (for realism, feel with the car etc etc) and that a game that names itself the "real driving simulator" lacking over 80% of the cockpit views is just sad.
having to push a button to reverse is another silly thing, maybe only pro driving cars will have such a thing, i know my car doesn't, and playing in a race seat with a driving force GT wheel its almost painfull to back a car and turn at same time.

i had really high hoped for GT5, some were realised, some not. in all honesty, am more working to "finish" the game now and get ready for Forza 4
So it's not just me then. :)
There is no bigger pain in the ass then trying to back up and turn quickly at all, the only help I've found is less FFB, but that makes the first 90 degrees of steering better, just evil to back up pushing a button, and sometimes (usually after a DS3 stint, for whatever reason) I try to downshift into reverse like a human being does in a car.
 
I think it would be cool if PD did the "pull both paddles to reverse" thing like Ferrari used on the F355. Wouldn't be that much help to non-wheel users, but it would be much easier for those that do.
 
Would that be pulling them once to shift into reverse, or holding them back like you have to hold down the triangle?

I'd prefer to just shift into reverse with whatever you are using to shift, like most games do anyway. I'm amazed they haven't ditched the triangle thing by now.
 
Pull both paddles back and hold them (though I suppose the other option is actually better).

The problem with just shifting into reverse sequentially is that I think it takes too long.
 
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Pull both paddles back and hold them (though I suppose the other option is actually better).

The problem with just shifting into reverse sequentially is that I think it takes too long.
Not at all, it always takes longer to get in reverse, doesn't it?
I would prefer the downshift through from first, but anything that means not turning the wheel the same time as holding a button down would be great.

I almost feel this "consumers absolute right to demand 'better' product" is what may kill the GT series off..who's to say some months were not dedicated during PD gt5 development into incorporating livery editors and engine swaps and standard physics amongst all modes only to find it made the game so laggy and buggy that development would have spanned to 2015? Whose to say almost all of what we wanted for GT5 was not logistically possible to be done by PD alone, but ultimately they weren't interested in outsourcing? What if based upon what the consumer(and subsequently sony) demanded for GT5s release date, that what we have(and subsequent patches) is all they could manage? Anytime I complain about anything in life(and on a lesser note, gt5) I start thinking like this, and ultimately it makes me a little more thankful for what I have
In a nutshell, you're saying, "what if they can't make a better game?" - That means you do not have faith in PD. I agree, I'm not sure they're willing to do what needs done to make the game all that it can be either.
 
So, in not so many words, no you don't.

what is this, i don't even

if increased functionality and refinement is considered to be a 'step-back' then i must be living in upside-down logic world.

hey tornado can you pass me that motorcycle ash tray, i need to stump out my bubble pipe.

i can see why you like it here. things are easier without reason.
 
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I do; I just wish they understood racing the same way iracing and Codemasters does. Those racing engines with PD's physics engine would be perfect.
 
I still have the game so why would I have no place here? I still give positive feedabck along with negative feedback in most of the threads. I love the "Realistic photos" thread and make an appearance in there quite often to see the postive parts of the game. I also reply in other threads providing positive feedback. I am waiting and hoping PD will patch the game to make all the cars premium. I have not given up yet. I still have the game. Havent played in a while but I do still have the game.

Some games that launch as a disaster, do get better over time like Test Drive Unlimited 2. I quit playing that game for over a month after my game corruption. Then after I waited they released a patch that fixed the game corruptions. Another developer that listens to the community. I always believe good things come to those that wait so I am still waiting for PD to finish GT5. The 20% premium cars are excellent and I enjoy using those throughout the game. Its the other 80% that kills me. Patch those standard into premiums and I will be very happy with GT5 (basically finish the game and I will be happy). 👍


My first car was a Celica and it was a standard. So I felt EXACTLY the same way. I tried to switch to the interior view, nothing. Then it got worse from that point forward. Massive jaggies on car, cant take pics too close, cant change wheels, cant take car to Photo Travel.

I was thinking dang what the heck can I do with this car?!! Then found out later 80% of the cars in the game are like this. :dunce:

It sounds like you're supporting PD.

I will support PD. IMO GT5 has advance concepts and is an example that PD has so much potential compared to your other racing games. GT5 is an awesome game but the problem with it, it's unfinished.
 
I support them but I've also grown to be more attentive to their products before they release them. I find their mentality to be a little off base with what other game companies do and it's a bit unsettling how they handle some aspects of development.
 
AlphaEdition
So basically you are implying that gt5 (which is my particularism) is "unhealthy" or "biased towards profits"?

This might be primarily true, however

I will assume that this is your opinion... :rolleyes:

But like you had mentioned earlier in your speech, comprimises are made BUT the magnitude of the comprimise is what is currently spoiling the game. I was one of few that didn't expect 1000 premium cars in the game. In this particular example, this cannot be explained as being comprimise but more upgraded HANDICAP where the idea face value is overwhelming but reappears as being UNDERwhelmig.

To answer your question, PD will look over their shoulder and will see other "competitors" right behind them, any mistake or problem can cause the tables to turn.

Damage and cockpit view being new NOW isn't necessarily a good thing. This can be portrayed as them being behind and able to keep up.

Finally Someone who understands logic :lol:

Magnitude of what comprimise? I see it as simple as this: release date of Nov 2010 equals incomplete product but a release nonetheless.. complete product release w/ all the belly achers satiated equals release of gt5 along w/ ps4 release, can you imagine the response of these forums if GT series never touched the PS3? ...a wailing and gnashing of teeth indeed....
 
Not at all, it always takes longer to get in reverse, doesn't it?
I would prefer the downshift through from first, but anything that means not turning the wheel the same time as holding a button down would be great.

In a nutshell, you're saying, "what if they can't make a better game?" - That means you do not have faith in PD. I agree, I'm not sure they're willing to do what needs done to make the game all that it can be either.

No, what he's saying is that "gamers" have grown so fastidious that no matter what Polyphony Digital may do, it still won't be enough for them. And what they ask for just may not be possible. A lot of gamers believe the internet is a magic genie that can say ALAKAZAM!!, and then in a puff of smoke their wish will be granted. It doesn't work that way. Or that now they feel as if they're not part of the design team. Design by committee rarely works. Design by internet committee may NEVER work.
 
No, what he's saying is that "gamers" have grown so fastidious that no matter what Polyphony Digital may do, it still won't be enough for them. And what they ask for just may not be possible. A lot of gamers believe the internet is a magic genie that can say ALAKAZAM!!, and then in a puff of smoke their wish will be granted. It doesn't work that way. Or that now they feel as if they're not part of the design team. Design by committee rarely works. Design by internet committee may NEVER work.

Wait I thought the internet was a system of tubes under houses and companies that allowed people to do what you just said...???:dopey:

The issue is more with PD not getting with the times that where this thread seems to be going as far as supporting them or not. Damage could have been modeled in the past two games and it wasn't. Cockpits just the same, I agree it feels like GT are too far in the past and may never catch up if that is what they're doing now. I think GT spent too much time trying to capture realistic looks when they should have rationalized and spread it out to more areas. People should just be mad that all console race games don't have the physics of PC sims though and that shouldn't be just centered on PD with GT.
 
All those, who question the superiority and glory GT5 is and can not see the sparkling perfection in every corner and detail, should straight go to hell and be banned from this galaxy or be punished with a 450 pounds wife for his coitus sessions.

Hail Yamauchi!
You sound like a democrat.

So unless we join you with pitchforks and sledgehammers in a riot against PD, we're dummyheads or something. Frankly, I'd rather be a dummyhead and think for myself than join a flock of angry lemmings who can't sit still unless GT5 is flamed unmercifully.

They can have there 5 weeks annual leave in one block if they want.

How long do you think they deserve off?

I've been working 25yrs with just 5 weeks off average a year. (physical labour)
Around another 25 to go. 28 if the government gets it's way before I get to retire.

How much rest do they need?
Do you have a cot at your job? I have a feeling the answer is "no."

People should just be mad that all console race games don't have the physics of PC sims though and that shouldn't be just centered on PD with GT.
Frankly, I quit racing my PC sims because the physics even in Prologue was very close to Live For Speed and GTR Evo. Unfortunately, those games have a very limited focus and content, and it turns out at least for me, less fun as well.
 
Wait I thought the internet was a system of tubes under houses and companies that allowed people to do what you just said...???:dopey:

The issue is more with PD not getting with the times that where this thread seems to be going as far as supporting them or not. Damage could have been modeled in the past two games and it wasn't. Cockpits just the same, I agree it feels like GT are too far in the past and may never catch up if that is what they're doing now. I think GT spent too much time trying to capture realistic looks when they should have rationalized and spread it out to more areas. People should just be mad that all console race games don't have the physics of PC sims though and that shouldn't be just centered on PD with GT.


"Getting with the times"? Or is it more not trying to be like another game? I see it more as many "gamers" wanting to homogenize games. This shooter needs to be more like Call of Duty. That racer needs to be more like Forza. There seems to be a prevailing logic of "if it's the same then I won't have to decide if I like it or not, I already will because it's exactly the same as everything else!!". The other school of thought is that if Game X is the most popular game on the market, then every game should emulate it. Which stifles creativity, and that fans have the final say when it comes to design. I've often said that I wouldn't think of emailing Paul McCartney and telling him "you need to make records MY way! I'M A FAN AND I KNOW MORE THAN YOU DO, AND IF YOU DON'T MAKE RECORDS MY WAY THEN YOU'RE A LAZY SONGWRITER!!". He'd say to me "that's great kid, tell me something; how many hit records have YOU had?". If you think that this is "different because it's video games", it's not. It's the same thing.

As much as fans and gamers want to believe that they have ownership of these games, they don't. Yes, you spend money on them, but you can't have them made to order, and they shouldn't start to be.
 
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"Getting with the times"? Or is it more not trying to be like another game? I see it more as many "gamers" wanting to homogenize games. This shooter needs to be more like Call of Duty. That racer needs to be more like Forza. There seems to be a prevailing logic of "if it's the same then I won't have to decide if I like it or not, I already will because it's exactly the same as everything else!!". The other school of thought is that if Game X is the most popular game on the market, then every game should emulate it. Which stifles creativity, and that fans have the final say when it comes to design. I've often said that I wouldn't think of emailing Paul McCartney and telling him "you need to make records MY way! I'M A FAN AND I KNOW MORE THAN I DO, AND IF YOU DON'T MAKE RECORDS MY WAY THEN YOU'RE A LAZY SONGWRITER!!". He'd say to me "that's great kid, tell me something; how many hit records have YOU had?". If you think that this is "different because it's video games", it's not. It's the same thing.

As much as fans and gamers want to believe that they have ownership of these games, they don't. Yes, you spend money on them, but you can't have them made to order, and they shouldn't start to be.

Mediocrity is definitely not the answer. The person you quoted basically sums PD's problem perfectly. They spent too much time making the game look photo realistic, and the result ended up being a game that looks vastly unfinished. GT5 basically tries to do everything, but in a extremely limited fashion. You want photo realistic cars, well there are 200 of them (resulting in the other 800 being basically port overs from the PS2 era).
The customization in this game is a absolute joke. This is one area where it would have been 100 times better if they copied Forza 100%. They offer you the ability to race modify cars, a cool concept, until you find out it can only be applied to 17 of the 1000 cars. A spec is a huge step back from previous games.

In honestly, the game was poorly managed. Resources were focused on the wrong areas, and what resulted in was a long dev time, and a game that didn't live up to expectations. In that time, MS managed to release 2 very very good Forza games which garnered huge popularity, and honestly, Forza 4 looks like it does everything GT5 claimed to do, but much better. Sony is lucky Forza isn't a multiplatform game.

That being said, GT5 is still a great simulator. If all you want is to have tons of car to drive, then its a great simulator. Unfortunately, its a mediocre game.
 
Mediocrity is definitely not the answer. The person you quoted basically sums PD's problem perfectly. They spent too much time making the game look photo realistic, and the result ended up being a game that looks vastly unfinished. GT5 basically tries to do everything, but in a extremely limited fashion. You want photo realistic cars, well there are 200 of them (resulting in the other 800 being basically port overs from the PS2 era).
The customization in this game is a absolute joke. This is one area where it would have been 100 times better if they copied Forza 100%. They offer you the ability to race modify cars, a cool concept, until you find out it can only be applied to 17 of the 1000 cars. A spec is a huge step back from previous games.

In honestly, the game was poorly managed. Resources were focused on the wrong areas, and what resulted in was a long dev time, and a game that didn't live up to expectations. In that time, MS managed to release 2 very very good Forza games which garnered huge popularity, and honestly, Forza 4 looks like it does everything GT5 claimed to do, but much better. Sony is lucky Forza isn't a multiplatform game.

That being said, GT5 is still a great simulator. If all you want is to have tons of car to drive, then its a great simulator. Unfortunately, its a mediocre game.

Like I said, "make it like another game". Is it that Forza does it that much better? Is it this inferiority complex of "they have it, why don't we?". Or is it that the forbidden fruit tastes much more sweet?

Trying to morph the game into another one only make the case of homogenization stronger. Copying a game "100%" is never a good idea, mainly because it's no longer your game, and the creative process is diluted. If they had copied those aspects of Forza "100%" like you claim they should have, then I have the distinct feeling that you'd be claiming the game was now "unoriginal" and a clone. It's a lose-lose scenario (note the spelling).

Another thing I think is happening is that gamers don't know how to deal with aspects of a game they don't like. A game doesn't have a certain feature, or if it's not done well and there seems to be this feeling of "AAAAAAAAAAAAAH THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! THIS GAME IS UNFINISHED AND BROKEN!!". Maybe you didn't like it? Is that so outrageous to believe? It seems as though there's only two extremes. Perfection and beyond horrible. If you think about it, video games are predicated on only two choices. Good or evil. Black or white. Offense or defense. There's no grey area, and I think it's skewed perceptions.

Gamers are a strange beast. Like I said, it's gotten to the point where they are impossible to satisfy, and the internet now gives them a soapbox on which they're in a state of perpetual outrage.
 
Like I said, "make it like another game". Is it that Forza does it that much better? Is it this inferiority complex of "they have it, why don't we?". Or is it that the forbidden fruit tastes much more sweet?

Trying to morph the game into another one only make the case of homogenization stronger. Copying a game "100%" is never a good idea, mainly because it's no longer your game, and the creative process is diluted. If they had copied those aspects of Forza "100%" like you claim they should have, then I have the distinct feeling that you'd be claiming the game was now "unoriginal" and a clone. It's a lose-lose scenario (note the spelling).

Another thing I think is happening is that gamers don't know how to deal with aspects of a game they don't like. A game doesn't have a certain feature, or if it's not done well and there seems to be this feeling of "AAAAAAAAAAAAAH THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! THIS GAME IS UNFINISHED AND BROKEN!!". Maybe you didn't like it? Is that so outrageous to believe?

Gamers are a strange beast. Like I said, it's gotten to the point where they are impossible to satisfy, and the internet now gives them a soapbox on which they're in a state of perpetual outrage.

So, if you had to choose between GT5's current customization system and Forza's customization implemented into GT5 100%, your telling me you would still take GT5's? Of course in the perfect world, GT5's customization would do everything Forza did but better, but thats not the case.
And as for out rage, I guess some people are just passionate about their games. A lot of people had high expectations for this game, and it didnt live up to them no matter how you cut it. Of course I have gotten over it and have moved on to other games, though I still occasionally pop in GT5 to get my realistic driving sim.
 
CSLACR
Hmmm, doesn't look different then what I said, other than wording and layout.

If the values combined are incorrect (because they used a different coding/physics set for GT4) and they have to make "adjustments" to said values, and those adjustments are incorrect, what do you have?

The next post I posted agreed with the flawed physics for standards. Not all, but some just don't feel right.
 
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