Do you think GT4 is incomplete?

[Mr. Boy]

The AI is rubbish, online play was pulled at the last minute, and there were lots of delays leading up to the release of the game. All these problems lead me to believe that it needed an extra year or so of development before it was released. Its as if they couldn't give us a brand-new AI engine or online play because time had run out. They could have delayed the game to Christmas 2005, but they delayed it so many times already, that it wouldn't make any sense to delay it again. GT4 is great as it is, but I think they need to release a GT4 2.0 or something like that.

Or maybe its just me.

 

[RICHARDO]

It's not just you, we all feel a tad dissapointed with GT4. Just enjoy what we have and be happy.

 

[Flerbizky]

I don't..

Say.. I've spend what - US$ 50 on GT4 (ok, so I bought it twice - shut up already).. I believe I've spend at least 200 hours on it.. You do the math.. If that was my hourly rate, I'd be pretty pissed.. but it isn't - and considering I'll be doing at least 6-8 more 24 hour A-Spec races - I think it's a pretty cheap game.. Lord knows I've paid the same for games lasting less than 10 hours.......

 

[Uncle Harry]

They left out Ford versus Holden races.
What happened to the Drift competition, the bank and the paint shop? They were promoted pre release?
Any body want to drag race? That feature was promoted and what did we get? A time trial, big deal.
Arcade mode has a lot of bugs in regard to two player mode.

 

[Wolfe]

GT4 = GT3.5 (features-wise)

GT4's physics = Bastardized GT3 physics

Competitors' physics > Bastardized GT3 physics

GT4 != What PD promised

 

[crimson_menace]

I'm not complaining.

I waited many-a-millenia for the fabled GT4 to be released. It didn't have everything that I was promised pre-release, but the things it does have are more than enough to hold me off until GT5.

GT4 has got to be the most used game in my entire collection, and the hours of gameplay will likely triple before GT5 is released.

GT4 is a great game, but I agree: in a lot of spots, the game could be better.

But at least it's no Enthusia! I can't believe I wasted 40 bucks on that pile.


...random thought thrown together in a single statement...

That's how I roll.

 

[zPhoenix]

I have to agree. GT4 is clearly incomplete. They also did not do decent testing on several features so that they could make those features work properly (someone said penalty system, stupid passing algorithms, etc?). And they definitely screwed up the user interface to the point that most players have a hard time figuring out what race to do next or what car to use on a given race. They also screwed up the prizes for races. All in all, the kind of things that happen if you are out of time, or if you are fat on success and get lazy.

On the other hand... they did add a few decent improvements, more digestible license tests, better tracks, more cars (most of which I don't care for, but other people do).

Although I am a cheapskate and never buy games before they drop down to $20 I paid about $40 for GT4 because I utterly loved GT3. I also regretted it, and will not do it again. It is definitely worth $20 to me, but it was absolutely not worth buying it early and at near-full price.

Things that MUST be fixed in GT5:
- Penalty system
- Stupid AI
- Internet gaming
- Horribly user-unfriendly race menu/map.

 

[LeadSlead#2]

I think I might be the only one who's biggest gripe is FF cars.... since these are most of the cars people I know have owned & all I have owned, I would love to see it fixed for GT5
If it's not, however, I swear on all that is precious to me, I will never buy another Gran Turismo game again, Ever.

 

[Boundary Layer]

perhaps it could have been better..... but hoenstly, PD had 4 years to work on the game, create the physics engine, race modes, etc....
I figure anything they couldn't implement or complete in that time is better left out - obviously whatever they were working on that was reason for the delays was flawed (or more flawed than the content they left in).

I'm happy with the game as it is. I'll be one of the first to admit that it is not perfect, but that's what I've come to expect of video games.
In combination with the DFP, gt4 isl enough to put a grin on my face, and a large enough game to take up my spare time without becoming overly monotonous (...time that would be better spent studying for engineering finals...).

But that's just me.
People new to the GT series might not get sucked in quite as much as some of the more veteran players who have been around since GT1 to see how much it has improved with each installment.

Theory: perhaps PD felt a bit of pressure to get the game released in all the major markets before Enthusia hit retail shelves in May of '05.

 

[mprata]

Well it could be a bit better.... Althought it's an amazing game as it is . I have played Gt4 send the release date in Spain (I usualy buy my Ps2 games in Spain) and I got 100%.

Now I restarted it, and I bought a DFP(but I can't touch on it yet ). I spent a lot of money in this video game but it's in my Ps2 drive since I bought it .

A good thing that GT4 has is the fact that we can create our own challenges 👍 (most a-spec points possible, a-spec everything and what ever we remember to do), plus I don't see many games arround in that we can take photos of our cars....

 

[2002thx1138]

There is no doubt that GT4 is less than perfect, but it's still a major improvement on GT3 in so many areas, (as GT3 was over GT2, and GT2 over GT1).
The graphics are improved, the number of cars is amazing, and there are many more tracks, including the fantastic real life tracks. The license tests are improved too.

The bad points for me are the stupid AI, and lack of proper long life tyres for the endurance races (who ever heard of RH tyres that only last 15 laps!!), and the poor rally "races"

But as value for money goes, in hours played per $, it has still got to be the best game ever made, (or most of you guys wouldn't be here, right?)

 

[Appie]

nope

 

[fastcatsi]

I've had a theory about this for a while now and I might as well voice it in this thread. Maybe GT4 had to be dumbed down for the PS2 and that's why it was delayed and thats also why it seems incomplete.

Think about it for a sec...

PD went out and built this game with all these great features like online and had some wild cars like the Fireblade.

But then the old PS2 couldn't run the online well at all (and we all know that an online game uses a lot more CPU power than a single player one does) and certain cars couldn't be rendered smoothly with other cars on the track.

What do you do?

You spend a lot of time trying to optimize those features to make the poor ol PS2 run them. You keep making tweaks and then play testing...make tweaks and playtest.....till your tired of it all and it still doesn't work. And now you're a year late with the game and your bosses are breathing down your neck. So you then start pulling the features that didn't work.

Goodbye online...
Goodbye Fireblade, etc racing with other cars...
Goodbye Rallying with more than one car on the track (yes, I know that's still not rallying but hey, Im not too picky)...
Goodbye fields with more than 6 cars...


I've always had this theory but when I saw how fast PD came out with that video of GT Visions that really just looks like a smoother GT4 with lots of cars on the track, better rallying, etc. and I realised that GT Visions just might be the "real" GT4 that they had envisioned but couldn't release on the PS2.


Now this is just a theory and I could be off my rocker so take this all with a grain of salt.


Kevin

 

[fastcatsi]

BTW- I absolutely love this game and have never logged so many hours n a single game before. Yes, it has a few issues but all in all its as good as I could expect....

 

[Wolfe]

I've had a theory about this for a while now and I might as well voice it in this thread. Maybe GT4 had to be dumbed down for the PS2 and that's why it was delayed and thats also why it seems incomplete.

Think about it for a sec...

PD went out and built this game with all these great features like online and had some wild cars like the Fireblade.

But then the old PS2 couldn't run the online well at all (and we all know that an online game uses a lot more CPU power than a single player one does) and certain cars couldn't be rendered smoothly with other cars on the track.

What do you do?

You spend a lot of time trying to optimize those features to make the poor ol PS2 run them. You keep making tweaks and then play testing...make tweaks and playtest.....till your tired of it all and it still doesn't work. And now you're a year late with the game and your bosses are breathing down your neck. So you then start pulling the features that didn't work.

Goodbye online...
Goodbye Fireblade, etc racing with other cars...
Goodbye Rallying with more than one car on the track (yes, I know that's still not rallying but hey, Im not too picky)...
Goodbye fields with more than 6 cars...


I've always had this theory but when I saw how fast PD came out with that video of GT Visions that really just looks like a smoother GT4 with lots of cars on the track, better rallying, etc. and I realised that GT Visions just might be the "real" GT4 that they had envisioned but couldn't release on the PS2.


Now this is just a theory and I could be off my rocker so take this all with a grain of salt.


Kevin

Wow, that's very, very plausible. Never thought about that before. 👍

Still doesn't excuse the driving physics, though.

But at least it's no Enthusia! I can't believe I wasted 40 bucks on that pile.

You're damned right GT4 ain't no Enthusia! If it was, it'd be more realistic and fun!

 

[Pupik]

They left out Ford versus Holden races. What happened to the Drift competition, the bank and the paint shop? They were promoted pre release? Any body want to drag race? That feature was promoted and what did we get? A time trial, big deal. Arcade mode has a lot of bugs in regard to two player mode.

Who really needs to borrow money when the bank tellers at Costa di Amalfi Savings and Meistershaft Credit Union always filling my satchels with money?

No Aussie races...those cars really get forgotten about. In my opinion, there really should have been some sort of Sedan races; a lot of those cars are in the game.

 

[ALFA GT]

GT4 is s great game. Who cares if it isn't perfect otherwise PD wouldn't have anything to improve for when GT5 is released, thats my 2 cents worth..

 

[Mad Murphy NZ]

generally speaking GT4 had everything I expected. Still the arcade mode offers absolutely nothing. There's nothing unlockable like there was in other GTs and 2 player boarders on unplayable.

 

[Uncle Harry]

Who really needs to borrow money when the bank tellers at Costa di Amalfi Savings and Meistershaft Credit Union always filling my satchels with money?

No Aussie races...those cars really get forgotten about. In my opinion, there really should have been some sort of Sedan races; a lot of those cars are in the game.

I wasn,t saying we needed it, I agree money is easy in GT4.
My point was they promoted certain "features" and then left them out.

GT4 is s great game. Who cares if it isn't perfect otherwise PD wouldn't have anything to improve for when GT5 is released, thats my 2 cents worth.. .

I agree that GT4 is a great game, but they had heaps of time to get GT4 right. It took about 15 months longer than first promised for me to get my game.
In that time they should have done better.
We really should have higher standards than your "who cares" attitude.
If we don't care then PD will produce a sub standard product next time.

 

[wfooshee]

I've had a theory about this for a while now and I might as well voice it in this thread. Maybe GT4 had to be dumbed down for the PS2 and that's why it was delayed and thats also why it seems incomplete.

.


.



.


Now this is just a theory and I could be off my rocker so take this all with a grain of salt.


Kevin

I agree completely. To me it's all but obvious that this was developed for the PS3, then had to be stripped for the PS2 when the PS3 took so long to get built.

On-line play? Well, the PS2 can't hack the lag. Sorry. OUT.

20-car grids? Well, you get a grid, we'll draw the stripes (they don't move, see?) but only 6 cars will be on it. Sorry. OUT.

Animated drivers in open cars? Cool, but too many polygons for the PS2. Those are now "Special" cars and you can only run them solo. Sorry. OUT.

Animated pit crews? Well, sure, but everything else has to disappear while we run that on the PS2, and then only in 2D. Sorry. OUT.

And the clincher, of course, is the GT4 logo on the pit crew uniforms in the GT5 preview video that's out there.

OTOH, I've been enjoying the game, the physics are good, I love that we get tracks that we never had before, although I miss Rome, Stage 11, etc. The Missions add a nice feature to have to beat, and while many lament the lack of certain cars, I love the heavy iron of the American muscle cars. Nothing like a Charger on the 'ring to explain why Europeans never had a "muscle-car" era like ours.

 

[zPhoenix]

I might agree that PD had to dumb down some of the game features to fit in the PS/2, but certainly not the dumb AI, and especially not the online play. As long as you are using high speed internet there should be no significant differences between online and LAN play, the only difference would be how you establish the initial game connection, and that is trivial. That is... unless they really messed up the pooch in their design.

 

[Pupik]

We really should have higher standards than your "who cares" attitude. If we don't care then PD will produce a sub standard product next time.

I don't think ALPHA has so much of a "who cares" attitude, in that he's stating that there aren't any real problems with the game, other than the frightful "Auto Save" nightmare that some people have suffered.

What he fears, like most of us seasoned GT players (yourself included), and therefore doesn't want: Huge changes to the game, where the GT series becomes more of a "automotive fashion show" rather than "driving and racing simulator". Many of the younger crowd seem to want things in the game that seem to circumvent the essence of Gran Turismo (tint, stereos, fatter exhaust pipes, reliance on picking brand-name tuner parts, etc.) And since Sony target market is likely to stay approximately in the same age range of 13-25 (just a guess), it may cater to those desires. However, since GT is still run by the same core of programmers, coders, and dreamers, I don't fear there's going to be much of a change to the original formula.

The cars that you can't race seem like proof that there's something incomplete about the game. However, for all it's quirks, it's not disappointing. (I won't complain about the wait, since it's given me more time to enjoy all the old GT games again.) Face it, every GT game has it's "promises", but it's not worth complaining, it's just work asking for in the next release (which hopefully, won't be a trickle-down effect that seems to bypass the Americas).

 

[TigJackson]

.....But at least it's no Enthusia! I can't believe I wasted 40 bucks on that pile.....That's how I roll.

I agree with just about everything you wrote about GT4, but at least I only wasted $20 on the steaming pile that is Enthusia....at best a four day game that is praised by a select few as being realistic. I am convinced that these few folk either work for Konami, or else they live in countries where there's ice on the road all year long, and they can't afford decent tires on top of that.

 

[jambo]

Its easy to start going on about what features were left out of gt4, and we all were a bit upset about the loss of online play, but at the same time the acheivement was fantastic, more cars than anythin, more tracks than most, the best physics engine on console (except with crashes). However as far as AI is concerned since the first game I have either viewed the races as time trials, meant for lap perfection, or have used a much lower spec car, one of my fave races from all time was the original gt on SS11 using a tuned integra type R against the likes of thew supra GT etc, awesome racing and use of tyres!

 

[MasterGT]

GT4 = a beta that took 4 years to release

Enthusia = poor traction physics (hope they update/improve the game)

ToCA3 = the best PS2 driving sim we'll ever see (if they keep their promises)

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Wolfe]

I agree with just about everything you wrote about GT4, but at least I only wasted $20 on the steaming pile that is Enthusia....at best a four day game that is praised by a select few as being realistic. I am convinced that these few folk either work for Konami, or else they live in countries where there's ice on the road all year long, and they can't afford decent tires on top of that.

Big deal. I wasted $50 on the unfinished disappointment that is GT4, which is blindly praised by the masses as being the ultimate in driving realism.

And I can just as easily say I'm convinced that you either work for Polyphony Digital, or have never driven a car at any high speeds.

 

[X-Othermic]

They really need to sort these things out for GT5...

 

[ket01084]

There are some courses that were in GT3 that no longer are in GT4. These courses are Rome, Smokey Mountain Rally, Special Stage Route Wet, and Magny Curves. Of these courses, I missed sincerely Rome and Smokey Mountains. Do anyone knows why these courses are absent in GT4? You can make really interesting events in these courses, like a Zonda Car race.

I also thought that this game would include historic and important courses like Imola, San Marino, Silverstone, Catalunya, Hockenheim, New Nurburing, Interlagos, etc. Why didn´t they include these excellent courses?

These game has a lot of race cars that you will never have the chance to use it on a serious race. It is interesting to play with all these cars and compare which is the best. Another suggestion is that I would add more Race Events where they will give you prize cars like the Mazda 787B, Nissan R390 GT Race Car, Esperante Panoz, Pescarolo Sports, Peugeot Race Car, BMW V12 Race Car, etc. You can have events that feature this cars, so you can really test these very expensive cars.

Can anyone tell me if there is a thread about Proposed GT4 races? I could talk more about these events and how will they increase GT4 fun.

 

[daan]

There are some courses that were in GT3 that no longer are in GT4. These courses are Rome, Smokey Mountain Rally, Special Stage Route Wet, and Magny Curves.

Magny where? Do you mean Magny Cours? That track has never been in any GT.

SS R11 is missing if that's the one you mean.

 

[DoriFtoMonkY]

My main Complaint over GT4 is that the Bastids Couldn't be bothered factoring in Limited Slip differential physics. Easiest way to realise this is to take any FR car, the bigger the power -> the bigger the point, buy a 2 way diff, or Full Custom. Fully Lock that Sucker. Now, Try and do a Doughnut. Just Try!

Enthusia though, now that was a pleasant surprise, just wish the game was more detailed Only 1.8 gig compared to GT4's 7 Gig +. So Obviously there is a lot of room for improvement.

Back to the post, Can't beleive I spent over 150 dollars trying to play GT4! Its not a bad racing Sim, Just isnt' a good enough Driving Sim DFP used at all times 👍