Do you think that GT is losing the battle against Forza?

[RacingFreak2k3]

I just spent a ton of time looking at videos from both camps (so to speak).
Comparison videos of Forza2 and GTHD. It was interesting for sure.
After a bit of time I was convinced the only way I could make up my mind was by playing the games.
One video had GTHD drifting an old celica rally car with nothing but a third person view, only the sound from the game, and really bad driving. Then FM2 came on and it was hip music laid over a pre-rendered cut scene battle. It was funny to see the comparison because of how biased it was... On that note, I figured the GT side had to have biases to a similar extent (just an assumption as I didn't actually find a video of that nature supporting the PD camp)... None the less, it was indeed interesting.

At this point I'm just wondering if the game shop can make a demo playable for me or if I have to find a friend with either system.

Haha yeah I watched that video last week....I also think it's unfair to even compare GTHD to FM2.....FM2 is finished, while GTHD is a starting demo to the true game. Sure GTHD doesn't have "the excitement factor" right now, tho I enjoy playing it very much, but hell, I guess if anyone is comparing GTHD to FM2, GTHD is doing pretty good in a sense for being a demo.

 

[Diab]

OMG I can't believe some of the complete and utter brown nosing that's going on here. I expected dan to talk a load of crap as usual as he is just a hair width away from jumping onto a plane, flying to Japan and dying all his hair white to be KY's poodle that follows him about everywhere. As for the guys talking about the car models, note that the pics don't do the game justice so yours is a moot point, look at some gameplay videos then say you can't tell what car you're looking at, or even just listen.

Oh man you all (those saying stuff without even playing FM2) must really be feeling the heat from this game and are even going to extreme lengths of complete and utter ignorance to somehow reassure yourself and protect yourself from the fact that FM2 is the game GT4 should've been, no more excuses, FM is equal to Gran Turismo and if PD don't get their act together than FM will be on the top of the podium and GT will be runner-up.

Face it the GT series hasn't changed, FM has done what many GT players have wanted since GT3 was announced for PS2.

Let's list the evolution of the Gran Turismo series:

Gran Turismo

* Revolutionary console racer
* 250 cars
* 11 tracks, mainly fantasy
* Amazing TV style replays
* Good physics for it's day
* Excellent soundtrack
* Licence tests

Gran Turismo 2

* More cars
* More tracks
* Basic form of damage

Gran Turismo 3

* Less cars
* Better graphics
* Same sounds
* Slightly improved physics

Gran Turismo 4

* More cars
* More tracks inc real world
* Very basic customisation
* Fantastic support for DFP

Let's see what's missing

* Virtually all sounds are complete dross
* No online
* No damage
* No personalising the car as yours
* Useless AI
* None of the big 3 - Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche (roadcars not racecars before someone mentions the Lambo in the JP version)
* Allow complete control of the car to the player

Now before you all jump for my throat please note I am an avid fan of the GT series, BUT Forza and even enthusia has made me see that GT is not the be all and end all of console simracers, there are better out there and until PD shape up and get their act together and don't create what they only want but what their community and fans want they will always languish behind these 2 imo. GT has to change to have myself and many many others even considering it as a purchase because right now with the GTHD demo it's looking like more of the same but with prettier graphics, woohoo !!

Will PD make GT5 worthy of it's 10th Anniversary celebrations or will it be just another GT with more added (or subtracted) to the numbers. If you like GT and are open minded and are not a complete GT muppet then Forza 2 will keep you happy until GT5 is released.

What would you do if Konami announced enthusia 2, cry maybe? As that would be on the same console so you wouldn't be able to easily avoid it like you can Forza 2.

 

[FoolKiller]

Perhaps someone can clarify something for me. Is GTHD a demo for GT5? I never once heard that said by anyone other than fans and now people trying to find something next gen to compare FM2 against.

If it is a demo then PD is taking their sweet time in finishing the game. This tells me that it is either what it appears to be, a pretty GT4, or such an early version that it can barely be called alpha.

I would just like a confirmation on what GTHD is supposed to be so that when I get a chance to play GTHD and FM2 I want to know what kind of comparison I am making. Is it a fair comparison or will I actually have to wait for GT5 before I can make a proper judgement?

I honestly feel that if GTHD has nothing to do with GT5 then no one can make a fair comparison between the two until it does come out. And if that is the case then I will most likely end up with GT5 first by default as I will be getting a PS3 first, unless I manage to get a free 360 somehow.

Someone who actually knows, please give me this answer so that I know whether I can ignore every "Look at FM2 compared to GTHD! FM2 FTW!!!!!" post or if I should be paying attention.

 

[Noremac55]

i was told that GT:HD Had the same Physics engine as the new GT5 will have, if this is true does that mean that it has all of the functions (e.g. no skid marks or damage) that the new GT5 will have or have i got it all wrong

 

[97modman]

OMG I can't believe some of the complete and utter brown nosing that's going on here. I expected dan to talk a load of crap as usual as he is just a hair width away from jumping onto a plane, flying to Japan and dying all his hair white to be KY's poodle that follows him about everywhere. As for the guys talking about the car models, note that the pics don't do the game justice so yours is a moot point, look at some gameplay videos then say you can't tell what car you're looking at, or even just listen.

Oh man you all (those saying stuff without even playing FM2) must really be feeling the heat from this game and are even going to extreme lengths of complete and utter ignorance to somehow reassure yourself and protect yourself from the fact that FM2 is the game GT4 should've been, no more excuses, FM is equal to Gran Turismo and if PD don't get their act together than FM will be on the top of the podium and GT will be runner-up.

Face it the GT series hasn't changed, FM has done what many GT players have wanted since GT3 was announced for PS2.

Let's list the evolution of the Gran Turismo series:

Gran Turismo

* Revolutionary console racer
* 250 cars
* 11 tracks, mainly fantasy
* Amazing TV style replays
* Good physics for it's day
* Excellent soundtrack
* Licence tests

Gran Turismo 2

* More cars
* More tracks
* Basic form of damage

Gran Turismo 3

* Less cars
* Better graphics
* Same sounds
* Slightly improved physics

Gran Turismo 4

* More cars
* More tracks inc real world
* Very basic customisation
* Fantastic support for DFP

Let's see what's missing

* Virtually all sounds are complete dross
* No online
* No damage
* No personalising the car as yours
* Useless AI
* None of the big 3 - Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche (roadcars not racecars before someone mentions the Lambo in the JP version)
* Allow complete control of the car to the player

Now before you all jump for my throat please note I am an avid fan of the GT series, BUT Forza and even enthusia has made me see that GT is not the be all and end all of console simracers, there are better out there and until PD shape up and get their act together and don't create what they only want but what their community and fans want they will always languish behind these 2 imo. GT has to change to have myself and many many others even considering it as a purchase because right now with the GTHD demo it's looking like more of the same but with prettier graphics, woohoo !!

Will PD make GT5 worthy of it's 10th Anniversary celebrations or will it be just another GT with more added (or subtracted) to the numbers. If you like GT and are open minded and are not a complete GT muppet then Forza 2 will keep you happy until GT5 is released.

What would you do if Konami announced enthusia 2, cry maybe? As that would be on the same console so you wouldn't be able to easily avoid it like you can Forza 2.

Nicely said..

 

[Dave A]

Perhaps someone can clarify something for me. Is GTHD a demo for GT5? I never once heard that said by anyone other than fans and now people trying to find something next gen to compare FM2 against.

If it is a demo then PD is taking their sweet time in finishing the game. This tells me that it is either what it appears to be, a pretty GT4, or such an early version that it can barely be called alpha.

I would just like a confirmation on what GTHD is supposed to be so that when I get a chance to play GTHD and FM2 I want to know what kind of comparison I am making. Is it a fair comparison or will I actually have to wait for GT5 before I can make a proper judgement?

I honestly feel that if GTHD has nothing to do with GT5 then no one can make a fair comparison between the two until it does come out. And if that is the case then I will most likely end up with GT5 first by default as I will be getting a PS3 first, unless I manage to get a free 360 somehow.

Someone who actually knows, please give me this answer so that I know whether I can ignore every "Look at FM2 compared to GTHD! FM2 FTW!!!!!" post or if I should be paying attention.

GT:HD in it's current form IS NOT GT5, it is not based on GT5's physics engine. Kaz stated late last year that GT:HD was based on GT4's physics engine but that he would make an update to a new engine available to download at a later date.

i was told that GT:HD Had the same Physics engine as the new GT5 will have, if this is true does that mean that it has all of the functions (e.g. no skid marks or damage) that the new GT5 will have or have i got it all wrong

You have it wrong. Ofcourse that doesn't mean GT5 WILL have damage and skid marks etc, we won't know that until we actually see GT5.

 

[Ben Aracin]

Well said Diab, well said.
The sad part is even if GT/HD isn't an actual demo of GT5 the GT fanboys/whorshippers have been doing exactly as i knew they'd do.
FM2 is attempting to give the customers what they MOSTLY want.
I didn't enjoy FM1 as much do to the arcade handling, but did enjoy the start of the everything else tuning and slightly added engine/trans/tires/etc tuning.
Now folk that call PD perfectionist, etc i laugh at as GT4 was the biggest dissappointment in the series, now have a demo or whatever called GTHD to pray around, but are doing everything they can to seperate it from GT5 so as not to be comparable to FM2.
Also remember the rumors flying around that they started GT5 about 2 years into GT4, along with rumors that they actually COULD have 20+ cars on track in GT4.
Just think how po'ed that would make the racing/sim game fans if it was true.
I also find it funny when most GT fans simply want 8 online instead of 12+,
including a form of dial up ala TOCA3.
I myself want a full car field that means up to 44 car field. AND TO THIS DATE I STILL WANT TO HOOK UP MY SYSTEM TO FRIENDS AND USE MY GARAGE TUNED CARS to race with.

 

[Kent]

Well, I doubt even FM2 will have 40+ cars on a grid at once.
That said, I never felt like GT4 was a major disappointment. I did feel like there was plenty of room to improve but at the same time... The Nurburgring was incredible and simply one of the best tracks to race on in any racing game of the PS2/Xbox/GC console generation.
Without the spectacular Ring in GT4 I would have a much less positive view of the game but that's just not the case. And so, my view of GT4 is mixed... Part of me loves it for aspects like the Nurburgring and another part of me hates it for the lack of a color editor and proper customization (not decals but parts like GT wings on the RGT).

👍 👎

 

[Dave A]

I doubt GT5 will have a significant ammount, FM2 has 8 cars in a race (it was going to be more but they had frame rate issues), GT5 will probably have 8, 12 is a stretch but I wouldn't say a definite no.

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

OMG I can't believe some of the complete and utter brown nosing that's going on here. I expected dan to talk a load of crap as usual as he is just a hair width away from jumping onto a plane, flying to Japan and dying all his hair white to be KY's poodle that follows him about everywhere. As for the guys talking about the car models, note that the pics don't do the game justice so yours is a moot point, look at some gameplay videos then say you can't tell what car you're looking at, or even just listen.

Oh man you all (those saying stuff without even playing FM2) must really be feeling the heat from this game and are even going to extreme lengths of complete and utter ignorance to somehow reassure yourself and protect yourself from the fact that FM2 is the game GT4 should've been, no more excuses, FM is equal to Gran Turismo and if PD don't get their act together than FM will be on the top of the podium and GT will be runner-up.

Face it the GT series hasn't changed, FM has done what many GT players have wanted since GT3 was announced for PS2.

Let's list the evolution of the Gran Turismo series:

Gran Turismo

* Revolutionary console racer
* 250 cars
* 11 tracks, mainly fantasy
* Amazing TV style replays
* Good physics for it's day
* Excellent soundtrack
* Licence tests

Gran Turismo 2

* More cars
* More tracks
* Basic form of damage

Gran Turismo 3

* Less cars
* Better graphics
* Same sounds
* Slightly improved physics

Gran Turismo 4

* More cars
* More tracks inc real world
* Very basic customisation
* Fantastic support for DFP

Let's see what's missing

* Virtually all sounds are complete dross
* No online
* No damage
* No personalising the car as yours
* Useless AI
* None of the big 3 - Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche (roadcars not racecars before someone mentions the Lambo in the JP version)
* Allow complete control of the car to the player

Now before you all jump for my throat please note I am an avid fan of the GT series, BUT Forza and even enthusia has made me see that GT is not the be all and end all of console simracers, there are better out there and until PD shape up and get their act together and don't create what they only want but what their community and fans want they will always languish behind these 2 imo. GT has to change to have myself and many many others even considering it as a purchase because right now with the GTHD demo it's looking like more of the same but with prettier graphics, woohoo !!

Will PD make GT5 worthy of it's 10th Anniversary celebrations or will it be just another GT with more added (or subtracted) to the numbers. If you like GT and are open minded and are not a complete GT muppet then Forza 2 will keep you happy until GT5 is released.

What would you do if Konami announced enthusia 2, cry maybe? As that would be on the same console so you wouldn't be able to easily avoid it like you can Forza 2.

Great post i must say......and yes GT does need to improve in those respects, and if PD does that, GT5 will undoubtebly be fantastic. But I have played the FM2 demo, and so I feel my comparisons are worthy between GTHD and FM2 cuz i've had first hand experience, and yes if I had a 360, it would be great, and i would definitely buy it, but it's not going to make me go out and buy a 360....i played it at my buddies house. Props to Take10, and its great their giving PD some comp, but I don't think there is any rush for PD to get GT5 on the market any time soon, so I'm expecting a very quality product that I feel will be better than FM2. My 2 cents.

 

[Car-less]

I just have to point out for the benefit of the new members that GTHD is NOT a GT5 demo. GHTD was intended to be an interim title between GT4 and 5, like GT Concept was between GT3 and 4.

GTHD was supposed to be a prettied up version of GT4, and a testbed for new features that might make it into GT5, but when the public found out about micro-transactions the whole project was dropped. A hasty demo was released, and PD shifted their efforts to THE NEXT GAME.

Comparing GTHD to ANYTHING is unfair, as Turn10 did not release a FM1.5 demo shortly after the X360 was released. With the total lack of info about GT5 the only fair comparason that can be made is between GT3/4 and FM1.

Now before the Forza fanboys jump on me with accusations that I am a GT fanboy, the ONLY GT games that I have played are GT3 and 4, and at this time I have NO intentions of shelling out £1000's for a PS3, HDTV and GT5. I will be content with GT4 and my other hobbies until such time as the next Gen consoles are affordable, and the king of console racers has been decided.

Edited to add; what is the fascination with the big 3 supercar makers? The lack of Porsche/Ferrari/Lambourgini is what sets the GT series apart from all other racing games. What's the point in personalising your car with vinyls and bodykits if its just the same supercar as you'll find in most other games?

 

[97modman]

Edited to add; what is the fascination with the big 3 supercar makers? The lack of Porsche/Ferrari/Lambourgini is what sets the GT series apart from all other racing games. What's the point in personalising your car with vinyls and bodykits if its just the same supercar as you'll find in most other games?

Personalizing is what makes every other car different from everyone else's, why would you want to drive the same car with the same color as the next person? thats like communism..LOL.. Its a racing sim meaning those are Super cars found on most real world racing series with real life sponsors..Also those are the cars every average joe dreams about..including me..

 

[scandisk]

I doubt GT5 will have a significant ammount, FM2 has 8 cars in a race (it was going to be more but they had frame rate issues), GT5 will probably have 8, 12 is a stretch but I wouldn't say a definite no.

The number of cars in a track would probably depend on the processing power of the PS3. Take a look at the following images as example, this was from Vision Gran Turismo or shall I say GTHD Classic (teh prettied up version of GT4). If you have this video I suggest you take a closer look. They were able to pull off 16-17 cars on the track, which is of course due to the lack of damage models, etc etc. And the fact that they are GT4 cars in HD.

Now this one really amuses me. It's from around 0:29 of this video. http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=18931&type=wmv&pl=game

The graph shows the CPU usage on each of the cores/threads which was colour coded to different tasks. Each line represented one PPU thread or SPE. It shows 4 bars at the top of the screen, which in assumption is 2 PPE threads + 2 SPEs. Overall the PS3 has 8 of em (though 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS). There going to need the rest of the SPEs to deliver more cars, physics calculation etc etc.

Info on PPEs and SPEs
http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=72742

 

[Car-less]

Personalizing is what makes every other car different from everyone else's, why would you want to drive the same car with the same color as the next person? thats like communism..LOL.. Its a racing sim meaning those are Super cars found on most real world racing series with real life sponsors..Also those are the cars every average joe dreams about..including me..

I totally understand about wanting a vehicle that stands out from the crowd, I just don't get why people always want to start from the same point. A black 911 with bodykit 'A' looks much the same as a dark blue 911 with bodykit 'B'. If you wanted something unique why not start with something more unusual? How about a Saleen S7, or Zonda? I just came out of the 'did you see anything good today' thread with a yawn after seeing Ferrari after Ferrari after BMW. It all just got a bit samey.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> Wow! Nice discussion here! So by far here are the "only" issues that PD must do to be the supreme ruler of console racing/driving sims, this list is made by our fellow member, Diab:

* Virtually all sounds are complete dross
* No online
* No damage
* No personalising the car as yours
* Useless AI
* None of the big 3 - Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche (roadcars not racecars before someone mentions the Lambo in the JP version)
* Allow complete control of the car to the player

-> There some heated arguments that I encounted between my posts (maybe 2-4 pages ago). Fanboys vs Fanboys, Pro vs Anti GT, etc., I can really see the dissapoinments towards PD now. As Turn10 tries its best to "listen" to gamers as hard as they can and delivered Forza 2. Some say it wasn't enough, some say PC sims still rules, and the very few said that wait for the next Enthusia game. I've seen some Forza 2 videos from YouTube and I was mostly impressed by its content, but as what everyone said, I have to try the full game myself.

-> Ok, but what if PD did delivered all of these issues listed above? Plus some surprises up from their super secret sleeve? I for one have a very shallow satisfaction towards GT and that is 10,000 cars and 500 tracks. But we will never know for sure til E3, let keep our hopes up.
Keep on going guys! 👍

(:

 

[Wolfe]

I'm not talking about how most people play these games. Its about the maximum level you can go to.
PD is pushing for accuracy. While Turn10 is not IMO. There are already indications. From the laggy non-precise steering wheel, inacuracy of tracks, no cockpit view, impossible camera angles, etc.

Ah. I understand the point you're trying to make now.

I agree to an extent, but I have two objections. First, the track inaccuracy was most likely influenced by the decision to make room for unpredictable online matches, where a bunch of cars in close proximity can and usually does lead to disaster.

Second, I don't think Polyphony Digital is pushing for realism all that much more than Turn10 is. They do still have to cater to the millions of idiots who have no idea how to drive a car and can only appreciate Gran Turismo's realism based on how difficult it is to play, and not on the accuracy of the many physics factors involved in high-speed driving. They also have to devote a lot of time (too much IMO) to somewhat frivilous things, like ensuring that they have a bigger selection of cars than anyone else and the prettiest graphics of all.

I respect your opinion. You seemed to understand my point about the way certain physics engines are coded. And I hope that GT goes the LFS way one day.

I believe I understand more about physics and the way they're programmed than you might think.

I'm just irritated when I look at Forza 2 overall. I didn't want to nit pick. I pointed out in other threads about how the Ring is still wrong in many ways. For me, its not how many poly people are displayed off track, its the accuracy on the black stuff.
This is not pointed towards you. But if you are willing to accept that the track is close enough, then there is no point in me discussing with you.

Did you read my response to YSSMAN when he posted that video in the Forza 2 thread? I said the Forza 2 version is horribly inaccurate, albeit not as bad as Forza 1.

The attitude of Turn10 turns me off.
I think you are wasting you money if you support them. PD's leader is a great man, with even greater vision.
He loves driving cars like us, and wants to make the best game so he can play it.
Wait 2-3 months for anouncements from PD, and I think you will be glad.

Kazunori Yamauchi may have a great vision, but the only way GT4 came close to that vision was in content. The physics were very sorely lacking. I hope the physics update to GTHD that Dave A mentioned doesn't disappoint.

Let's list the evolution of the Gran Turismo series:

*list*

That's about right, although I myself would have noted (as above, to dan_gtp) that the physics in GT4 were not only not an improvement over GT3, but also were a step backwards in some areas.

At times I sound like a broken record on this point, but it's frustrating when the game with the largest amount of content and most active community has such fundamental flaws that it's rendered unplayable to me. I just can't stand playing the game, no matter how much I want to.

 

[Diab]

First thing I want to say is, Forza 2 is not perfect, now I know some of you will label me a Forza fanboy but this is far from true. First of all Forza 2 and Turn 10 have had to go back on some of their word with the final retail version and also they have carried over a few things from Forza without any improvement into Forza 2.

These are:

* 12 cars promised with 60fps, realtime reflections and HDR. - We now have 8 cars with 60fps and incredible reflections and HDR though other cars are not reflected which seems strange.
* NO REAR VIEW MIRROR WHEN IN BONNET/HOOD or OUTCAR VIEW - Hits fps apparently, which makes this view kind of pointless tbh.
* No incar view, this is Forza 2!! PGR3 a launch title even has an incar view and with TDU, people love getting inside the car but nope, Forza 2 couldn't be arsed modelling (well they said it would take too long but arsed sounds better) the interiors with weight reduction etc as it would take a considerable amount of time.
* The abysmal replay system from Forza is still apparent here in Forza 2 - This is the only real feature that GT has over FM2 and last I saw their was a 11page thread on the official site wanting this changed to more GT/PGR3 style TV cams.
* Damage is still kind of limited - This is not Turn 10's fault, they wanted to flip and roll and crumple but the manufacturers won't have it, what they have given us though is decent and will still not make you want to crash your car hard.
* Aggressive AI - If you ever played Forza you would know that the AI in the higher levels had a tendency to pit you, this still seems true from a few reviews though Turn 10 seem to say that how you race will affect the AI's personality, some will be keen to scrape with you, others will give back what they get and then there's your granny drivers who don't want to scrape their car at all and will avoid a smash at all costs.
* They've removed a fair amount of tracks (P2P) and tbh only 60 cars are new with the rest of the roster being redone FM vehicles.

Now let's see what they have added due to listening to their community:

* More customisation, 50% more parts and the ability to paint your car with 6000 layers total, premade fonts for easier word writing, a copy and paste plus group option in the decal editor as well as being able to save a group and apply to any car not just the same manufacturer, great for clans or tournaments.
* Nurburgring Nordschleife more accurate to the real thing, Forza had it's version geared towards online racing, so wider track, less curvasive bends, longer braking zones, no dips and bumps, but GT with Xlink among other games and the amount of real world videos showed gamers the Ring was not like this and they used their voice to tell Turn 10 they want the Ring as it is in Reality and Turn 10 have done just that. (we hope!)
*Ability to paint wheels and brakes, sounds a small thing but it's what people wanted and it's the small details that really make a game.
* Real world brake lights, sounds stupid I know but in Forza the whole cluster would light up and made the game less real and simulation for some so Turn 10 have for the most part given the cars their real world lights.
* Sounds, oh man have they acknowledged and raised to the challenge for this, you have to hear this game to believe it, turn your speakers loud enough and have a huge smash and watch someone in your house run to a window and have a look to see what they think has happened. (lol, exaggerated yes but the sounds are that good)
* Car handling tweaked (oversteer is not as easy to control) and a proper FFB wheel (jury's out on the MS Wheel being proper though) that works extremely well and is fun at the same time for all levels.

There's more I'm sure but that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Personally I want to see GT imitate FM2 and then go even further as competition is brilliant for us and for them, always striving to get one up on each other, they learn and evolve with each other becoming the best they can be and they can only do this if they first look at what the other does better than their own, then they can get to improving it.

 

[Jay]

They do still have to cater to the millions of idiots who have no idea how to drive a car and can only appreciate Gran Turismo's realism based on how difficult it is to play, and not on the accuracy of the many physics factors involved in high-speed driving.

Exactly, I think that is a major problem that is holding back, they are trying to cater to a full range of gamers. IMO they should still make a setting for gamers that want a simulation experience of driving these cars, bit like the amateur, semi-pro and simulation settings in other games. Also have those settings universal for all cars you get, I get tired of having to turn off TCS and ASM for every car I get.

 

[LGforce]

customizing & damage is ok in Forza but the rest just look lame IMO

 

[97modman]

I totally understand about wanting a vehicle that stands out from the crowd, I just don't get why people always want to start from the same point. A black 911 with bodykit 'A' looks much the same as a dark blue 911 with bodykit 'B'. If you wanted something unique why not start with something more unusual? How about a Saleen S7, or Zonda? I just came out of the 'did you see anything good today' thread with a yawn after seeing Ferrari after Ferrari after BMW. It all just got a bit samey.

I dont know what game your talking about but "body kit A" and "B" will look totally different since they are using body panels from real world manufacturers, this game is not NFS..Real world parts to tune your car..Also the telemetry in the FM2 demo blew me away i am surprised no one has mentioned it..You say Saleen S7 or Zonda, there in every other game as well..I will be happy with my Carrera GT or Nicely tuned GT3..

 

[Car-less]

Sorry if I wasn't very clear, but I was not referring to any specific game here.
I had been jumping around (the) GTPlanet, and had been bored by seeing too many similar cars in another thread.

 

[Dave A]

The number of cars in a track would probably depend on the processing power of the PS3. Take a look at the following images as example, this was from Vision Gran Turismo or shall I say GTHD Classic (teh prettied up version of GT4). If you have this video I suggest you take a closer look. They were able to pull off 16-17 cars on the track, which is of course due to the lack of damage models, etc etc. And the fact that they are GT4 cars in HD.http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=72742

First of all, I know all about the SPE's and how the PS3 works. Now, in connection wit hthoes pictures, the first ones from Vision GT are nothing more than GT4 running in high definition, that is not going to be putting nearly the same strain on the PS3 as GT:HD does with it's single car. There's far, far fewer polygons in the GT4 models, both cars and tracks and despite it all being high definition, the textures are still smaller than thoes in GT:HD. I can almost gaurentee that we will not be seeing 20 plus grid races in GT5, Vision GT had I think at the highest count 24. The GT:HD picture shows position 1 and then next to it a numberf 8 underneath some text that I can't make out, that's possibly a leaderboard ranking but even if it's not, I said 8 car grids are likely.

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

First thing I want to say is, Forza 2 is not perfect, now I know some of you will label me a Forza fanboy but this is far from true. First of all Forza 2 and Turn 10 have had to go back on some of their word with the final retail version and also they have carried over a few things from Forza without any improvement into Forza 2.

These are:

* 12 cars promised with 60fps, realtime reflections and HDR. - We now have 8 cars with 60fps and incredible reflections and HDR though other cars are not reflected which seems strange.
* NO REAR VIEW MIRROR WHEN IN BONNET/HOOD or OUTCAR VIEW - Hits fps apparently, which makes this view kind of pointless tbh.
* No incar view, this is Forza 2!! PGR3 a launch title even has an incar view and with TDU, people love getting inside the car but nope, Forza 2 couldn't be arsed modelling (well they said it would take too long but arsed sounds better) the interiors with weight reduction etc as it would take a considerable amount of time.
* The abysmal replay system from Forza is still apparent here in Forza 2 - This is the only real feature that GT has over FM2 and last I saw their was a 11page thread on the official site wanting this changed to more GT/PGR3 style TV cams.
* Damage is still kind of limited - This is not Turn 10's fault, they wanted to flip and roll and crumple but the manufacturers won't have it, what they have given us though is decent and will still not make you want to crash your car hard.
* Aggressive AI - If you ever played Forza you would know that the AI in the higher levels had a tendency to pit you, this still seems true from a few reviews though Turn 10 seem to say that how you race will affect the AI's personality, some will be keen to scrape with you, others will give back what they get and then there's your granny drivers who don't want to scrape their car at all and will avoid a smash at all costs.
* They've removed a fair amount of tracks (P2P) and tbh only 60 cars are new with the rest of the roster being redone FM vehicles.

Now let's see what they have added due to listening to their community:

* More customisation, 50% more parts and the ability to paint your car with 6000 layers total, premade fonts for easier word writing, a copy and paste plus group option in the decal editor as well as being able to save a group and apply to any car not just the same manufacturer, great for clans or tournaments.
* Nurburgring Nordschleife more accurate to the real thing, Forza had it's version geared towards online racing, so wider track, less curvasive bends, longer braking zones, no dips and bumps, but GT with Xlink among other games and the amount of real world videos showed gamers the Ring was not like this and they used their voice to tell Turn 10 they want the Ring as it is in Reality and Turn 10 have done just that. (we hope!)
*Ability to paint wheels and brakes, sounds a small thing but it's what people wanted and it's the small details that really make a game.
* Real world brake lights, sounds stupid I know but in Forza the whole cluster would light up and made the game less real and simulation for some so Turn 10 have for the most part given the cars their real world lights.
* Sounds, oh man have they acknowledged and raised to the challenge for this, you have to hear this game to believe it, turn your speakers loud enough and have a huge smash and watch someone in your house run to a window and have a look to see what they think has happened. (lol, exaggerated yes but the sounds are that good)
* Car handling tweaked (oversteer is not as easy to control) and a proper FFB wheel (jury's out on the MS Wheel being proper though) that works extremely well and is fun at the same time for all levels.

There's more I'm sure but that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. Personally I want to see GT imitate FM2 and then go even further as competition is brilliant for us and for them, always striving to get one up on each other, they learn and evolve with each other becoming the best they can be and they can only do this if they first look at what the other does better than their own, then they can get to improving it.

Very well said 👍 . The way I see it, if PD is able to make GT5 with their graphics, physics, and car and track modelling engines combined with Forza's customization, online play, and similar damage model, I'd be one very satisfied gamer for a long, long time.

Edit: Forgot to mention forza's sounds that would go well with the GT series. Some of the sounds in Forza still need some improvement tho (ex: SRT-4 in my opinion, I drive one, and the exhaust doesn't sound the best in game, but its close I guess).

 

[Kent]

I'm really starting to feel more and more like everything is fanboy propaganda in one direction or the other (and it is certainly a two-way street).

One thing that bothers me though is the unfair comparisons... For example, the last anti-GT video posted showed some faults (like doughnuts, which although they don't matter to me, I can understand being upset over) but at the same time it showed faults that other games have.
For example, why be upset about GT spinning tires without changing your direction? Fact is, Forza 1 would spin your tires and move you just a touch off to one direction the same exact way time after time (just had fun with that yesterday in a Ferrari F40).

I mean, I know people love drifting, doughnuts, and burnouts but I just don't think it is fair to compare Forza 1 and GT4 on the basis of thos elements without considering other elements where the roles are reversed.

Forza 1 got a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong.
GT4 got a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong.

Bottom line:
GT4 should be compared to Forza 1, GTHD is not a GT5 demo, Forza 2 is coming soon.

Regardless of all that...
I think we really need to get back on subject (a subject we all lost sight of long ago)...
Is GT losing the battle against Forza?

To answer that we don't need to say this game is better or that game is better... We need to address the public, industry, and media opinions of each franchise and the results each production company is getting from their efforts to push the game.

With that in mind...
I believe Forza is winning the battle.
You just don't see as many anti-Forza videos as you do anti-GT.

The media war is a no-contest win for Forza 2.

Problem is, I think many of the most well known and respected members of the GT community want nothing to do with threads like these.
Those people spend their time actually playing the game (which I might add, is on a totally different level from most of us in this thread).

So with all that said, I suggest we try to address the question of the thread instead of trying to address which game is better.

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

I'm really starting to feel more and more like everything is fanboy propaganda in one direction or the other (and it is certainly a two-way street).

One thing that bothers me though is the unfair comparisons... For example, the last anti-GT video posted showed some faults (like doughnuts, which although they don't matter to me, I can understand being upset over) but at the same time it showed faults that other games have.
For example, why be upset about GT spinning tires without changing your direction? Fact is, Forza 1 would spin your tires and move you just a touch off to one direction the same exact way time after time (just had fun with that yesterday in a Ferrari F40).

I mean, I know people love drifting, doughnuts, and burnouts but I just don't think it is fair to compare Forza 1 and GT4 on the basis of thos elements without considering other elements where the roles are reversed.

Forza 1 got a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong.
GT4 got a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong.

Bottom line:
GT4 should be compared to Forza 1, GTHD is not a GT5 demo, Forza 2 is coming soon.

Regardless of all that...
I think we really need to get back on subject (a subject we all lost sight of long ago)...
Is GT losing the battle against Forza?

To answer that we don't need to say this game is better or that game is better... We need to address the public, industry, and media opinions of each franchise and the results each production company is getting from their efforts to push the game.

With that in mind...
I believe Forza is winning the battle.
You just don't see as many anti-Forza videos as you do anti-GT.

The media war is a no-contest win for Forza 2.

Problem is, I think many of the most well known and respected members of the GT community want nothing to do with threads like these.
Those people spend their time actually playing the game (which I might add, is on a totally different level from most of us in this thread).

So with all that said, I suggest we try to address the question of the thread instead of trying to address which game is better.

I see where you are coming from, but I would have to slightly disagree. I have more experience with GT than I do Forza, and I do respect forza though. One reason why I think there are less anti-Forza videos is because of the fact that it's something new and refreshing to the whole gaming community, and they've only been on the market for a few years. GT has 4 major iterations of the series, dating all the way back to the mid to late 90's. Therefore, it is easier to point out the major flaws of GT because, yes we are seeing certain things over and over (bad sounds, delayed release dates, etc.), and they've been on the gaming market for twice as long. And yes, I agree that GTHD and Forza 2 should NOT be compared, but regaurdless, that is basically all most of us have to go off of at the current time, otherwise this thread would be pretty much dead. Take10 has come out with a great franchise, and all us GT addicts can hope for is something that will equal up to/beat Forza in this "battle." But again, it is great for competition. PD has needed the competition, they're getting it now, and hopefully they'll respond.

 

[dunkee]

First of all, I know all about the SPE's and how the PS3 works. Now, in connection wit hthoes pictures, the first ones from Vision GT are nothing more than GT4 running in high definition, that is not going to be putting nearly the same strain on the PS3 as GT:HD does with it's single car. There's far, far fewer polygons in the GT4 models, both cars and tracks and despite it all being high definition, the textures are still smaller than thoes in GT:HD. I can almost gaurentee that we will not be seeing 20 plus grid races in GT5, Vision GT had I think at the highest count 24. The GT:HD picture shows position 1 and then next to it a numberf 8 underneath some text that I can't make out, that's possibly a leaderboard ranking but even if it's not, I said 8 car grids are likely.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. GT:HD may not be a demo for GT5 but I would assume the models would be equal or better..how in gods green earth are ppl expecting them to run 20+ cars, run at 60 fps, have intense AI, damage and weather effects? Maybe the demo only ran one car at a time because they were having issues..idk something is gonna give. The 360 is not as powerful as the PS3 but I doubt PD could pull that magic trick off.

So with all that said, I suggest we try to address the question of the thread instead of trying to address which game is better.

I don't see a problem w/ this thread. There might be fanboys in here (I might as well be one) but it has not gotten out of hand. IMO this thread is the only reason I come to this forum. It has been a respectable debate and lead to some interesting topics..why stop it? Who cares who calls who a fanboy and what not..I sure don't.

 

[Kent]

IMO this thread is the only reason I come to this forum. It has been a respectable debate and lead to some interesting topics..why stop it? Who cares who calls who a fanboy and what not..I sure don't.

That's so much BS I can't believe it...
You know good and well that you've already gotten bent out of shape of even the slightest hint of someone calling you a fanboy.

Also, I wasn't saying we should stop this. Rather, I was saying we should try to keep on the subject (which is much more broad than simply saying FM2 or GT5 will be better).

I don't want the subject to die.
However, I certainly don't want the subject to just keep carrying on like a dog chasing its tail.

Btw, I also find it odd that you only come to the GTP for the sake of arguing that forza is a better series... Makes me wonder if you are really as unbiased and open-minded as you've been touting.

 

[97modman]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. GT:HD may not be a demo for GT5 but I would assume the models would be equal or better..how in gods green earth are ppl expecting them to run 20+ cars, run at 60 fps, have intense AI, damage and weather effects? Maybe the demo only ran one car at a time because they were having issues..idk something is gonna give. The 360 is not as powerful as the PS3 but I doubt PD could pull that magic trick off.

Well lets wait and see, currently i am happy in FM2 with the 8 car field, I would even be more satisfied with 12 or 14..They did do well with the graphics on GT4 so i will not sleep on them just yet..
I think PD needs to listen more to their customers and give them actually what people want to see. Thats why FM2 is doing so well, the actual devs are on the forum listening and communicating with people..Nothing from PD..

I don't see a problem w/ this thread. There might be fanboys in here (I might as well be one) but it has not gotten out of hand. IMO this thread is the only reason I come to this forum. It has been a respectable debate and lead to some interesting topics..why stop it? Who cares who calls who a fanboy and what not..I sure don't.

agreed..

 

[dunkee]

That's so much BS I can't believe it...
You know good and well that you've already gotten bent out of shape of even the slightest hint of someone calling you a fanboy.

Btw, I also find it odd that you only come to the GTP for the sake of arguing that forza is a better series... Makes me wonder if you are really as unbiased and open-minded as you've been touting.

The only one getting bent out of shape is you bud. I call myself a fanboy..I could care less. I come here for reading and entertainment. I love aspecs of all racing games so yes I am openminded, and if someone wants to say I am not..oh well so be it.

I am a senior member here bc I came here originally strictly a GT player..I later broadened my horizons = openminded 💡 I now come here to nitpick at GT cause I (like you to Forza) felt burnt. I waited patiently for GT4 and after playing for a couple months came away wanting a driving game that could offer a better driving experience. Forza 2 seems to be doing just that.

 

[97modman]

Bottom line:
GT4 should be compared to Forza 1, GTHD is not a GT5 demo, Forza 2 is coming soon.

Well the way PD is going GT5 will be out when Forza 3 will debut.