Do you think that GT is losing the battle against Forza?

What do you think of GT now?

  • Still the best there is!!!

    Votes: 309 61.6%

  • Screw GT! I'll play Forza now!

    Votes: 36 7.2%

  • It's going to be a nice battle.

    Votes: 136 27.1%

  • I'm still playing Pole Position

    Votes: 21 4.2%
  • Total voters
    502
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True.. the replay physics in FM1 didn't look like it was doing anything but the feel of driving is great. There are new vids of FM2 that show much improvement in that area. Check out the Sebring vids and it will be clear. Plus the sound has been revamped 10 fold..they did good. The car models aren't perfect but not too shabby.
 
I've been watching the videos and checking out the screenshots, as well as keeping tabs on the Forza boards. The car models, aside from a few flaws here and there that have purists throwing fits, and some polys here and there, look great. The 3D perspective as well as trackside graphics look very good too, from what I've seen. Car physics of course will have to be judged hands on, but I'll take Dan and the team's word on the improvements they worked hard to put into the game. I'm also very hyped over Dan G admitting that every car can have some body kit work done, even the Ferraris, so racing mods for all cars look to be a guarantee. *crosses fingers*

Still, I have to say that the game that has my attention is GT5. The continual pull back from promised things like 12 car races online and all content from Forza 1 has me a bit disappointed, although as a devout non-drifter I'm not as miffed over the loss of the point to point tracks as the other guys. I'm all about circuit racing and a good offline career mode. But what has me by the wallet is that darned Gran Turismo 5 Prologue game coming this fall, and GT5 proper in 2008. I'm going to get Forza 2 and the rest of the expensive package, but whether it's at launch or after Zephyr (upgraded 360) comes out, that remains to be seen.
 
Man D we are on the same page, I too am dissapointed with all the cars being ported to FM2 from FM1, thats weak. The pitpass report on friday did say some HD footage was coming soon, but who knows, I think Turn10 knows they are not going to match the graphical quality of GTHD, but they will set some benchmarks in sound and custimization I think. They actually took out a car to an old airport to record the tire sounds under braking, turning, skidding, and burning out. Even recorded different superchargers, and turbos using some machine to run them with out a car or motor. After both FM1 and GT4 I was dissapointed in both for different reasons, but GT is a love affair for me, were FM1 was a fling. It may change.

I love the GTHD vids, I downloaded 5 in HD and watch them on my 360 in my living room on my 43" Sony HDTV in 5.1 surround, though I don't think I'm actually getting true surround. They do look fantastic, and it is much more realistic looking than any screens I have seen of FM2.
 
I don't know, from what i seen the forza 2 video clip on IGN it was pretty convincing that they worked out a lot of bugs. Forza was their first game and it came closer to the GT serious then any other car sim developer. The forza team is hungry and they want it bad. I sure would love to see the car swap option on GT5. Ive helped my younger brother swap engines on his car and in doing that it definitely caught my attention that turn 10 is concentrating on that feature a lot more.
 
To go along with amped for a bit, Forza is trying to up the ante in as many ways as they can. There were quite a few cars that could have engine swaps in Forza 1. In Forza 2, that list is supposedly upped to cover most of the cars this time. For that matter, Turn 10 even included drive train swaps, so that if you want to make an RSX-S 4 wheel drive, you can do it. The limit is based on what is feasible and doable now, so you won't be able to make every car 4 wheel drive, and every 4WD car a rear wheel drive, but the options are much better for you. Since every car will have a bit of racing modification as far as front splitter and rear wing - that's the rumor anyway, it should be a hoot for the race modders to make racing variations of all the Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos and whatever else. They do want to provide as much to the community as they can to keep them happy for a long time, and it looks like they have a winner on their hands. If the online racing tools as far as server options and league builder are sharp, I can see that the kids will be spending most of their summer indoors.

Now if only they could squeeze in at least two more cars on track for races... :p
 
I went to buy God of War and Tourist Trophy the other day...
Of course the guy at EB responded to my inquire regarding GT5 with a big dumb look and a "you know Forza 2 is about and 'supposedly' has made big advances."

I get that same line every time I go in. :banghead:

I just wish the guy would try to remember, or accept the fact that I've put in over 40hrs. of game time on Forza 1 and walk away without being impressed.

After my Forza 1 experience I am hesitant to believe the rumors that all cars will get mods like spoilers and engine swaps.
That's not true. 👎
In Forza 1 you couldn't even change the bumper on half the cars (despite rumors that would have all of us think anything from a Ferrari to a 22b could have the bumper changed-out).

Fool me once- shame on you, fool me twice- shame on me. :sly:
 
^In the presentation at GDC Dan Greenwalt said that if there were no tuning kits available for the cars in real life, they would make ones up which would be under the "Forza" brand like in the 1st game. While it may not include EVERY single car, I'm gonna trust him for now and expect over 90% to have some form of body modification available.
 
Well they did say they added more so that's cool. I don't expect much in that department. The front splitters and rear wings will probably be there for most of the cars. Engine swaps will be for the popular cars. But if the bodykits are all you're looking for you are playing the wrong game. It's just an added bonus to make it more entertaining. There are more advancements in other areas that most just overlook. Sound is killer now..they recorded everything..from engine, exhaust, intake etc...it really sounds good. Damage isn't great but it's there and it punishes the suckers. The physics and tuning is very deep. If you can't see that then well I don't know what to say. At least we'll have something to tide us over until bigger and better stuff comes out.
 
I'm still waiting for some decent videos to be released by Turn 10, primarily replays as that will be the biggest clue as to whether the game has advanced in the physics engine or not. So far, it's almost always one car and chase cam, or a selection of cameras but always from the car. You can't tell much from car cam view. You have to view the cars from the track to really see what's going on.

Gran Turismo 4 and Toca 3 both have superb replays which can fool you into thinking you're watching real live racing video. Forza only on occasions bears a semblance to reality. The car behavior just isn't quite right. It races fine, in fact you can take turns too fast in Forza. But the car sticks to the ground and to walls, and the cars won't lean around turns, among other things.

I have to say that if the physics in Forza 2 are a refined version of what we see in FM1, I'm going to be disappointed. Dan, you can't use the word "sim" every two or three sentences and have that same physics polished up a bit.
 
Think they are reusing their tire physics...the suspension animation looks to be improved. Replays are also better..check out the new pitpass video on forzacentral. Looks much better than previous builds, but still not complete..shadows are not even drawn. I think they are doing are pretty good job and the finished product should be worth buying an 360..
 
From what i saw in the GDC demo footage, things are looking pretty good with Forza2, but as was said, you really need to get some hands on action to really see if the hype lives up, hoping for a demo to be released in April. From the amount of technical data that Turn 10 says they are acquiring for the physics for each car, i trust it will translate into the game as well as they say. All i know is that i can't wait to play a true sim racer on next gen, May cannot come soon enough for me.
 
shawtyoner
i can't wait to play a true sim racer on next gen, May cannot come soon enough for me.
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I'm still waiting on that. ;)

Forza was a very good game, but it was more simcade than Toca 3 or GT4. I've noticed that MS hasn't released any gameplay replays from anything but chase, hood or nosecam positions. You can only really tell how a car is behaving when you watch it from all angles, and the replays from Forza didn't have the uncanny lifelike quality of replays from Toca or GT. Also, damage in Forza 2 looks to be mild again. That's fine with me, but it's one mark against it being a legit "sim" racer. We'll see in a couple of months, if it does come out in May.
 
Forza is a very creative kind of game considering the features it has. When I look at this game it's looks very fun but after looking at the many previews don't you think Forza's graphics are still kind of on the week side. The Road Atlanta video with the 350Z, what the heck was that the car looks like a 4x4. :yuck: I was shocked I couldn't believe what I just saw. The sky was dark and hazy. I understand their trying to make it as real as possible but the haze thing blows. They should have made it were it depends on the time of day if it's early it will be hazy. But I believe it will be like that no matter what. Seriously the graphics are not that great it still looks arcadish. I'm telling you this is where GT5 will shine once again "DETAIL". I also believe GT5's sound will surpass Foraza's. Yes I said it I believe GT will master the sound this time. Well until then I will buy Forza and play it, who wouldn't lol.


"Overall Forza still looks arcadish but I believe with all aids off in full simulation mode it's going to be great considering there is no other to compare yet. This is were I will spend most of my time.👍
 
Well, from playing both Forza and GT4 quite a bit, I have to say I prefer GT4. Forza has some nice extras, but nothing life changing. That, and the physics in Forza simply do not feel right, such as controlling an MR2 at 100+ MPH is way too easy in a drift. And the tire sounds in Forza... just drive me nuts. And the graphics feel kind of arcadey, and so does the tuning mode at times.

That aside, GT4 has its issues as well, such as drifting physics at lower speeds and such.

The future versions will be well paired off, but I think PD will see what people like in Forza and implement it. I want to see an ultra harsh crash system (that can be toggled for less hardcore) where if you would total the car in real life, you are done. But say it if rolls once and isn't too bad, then keep going (Rally cars do this at times).

Forza to me is the step between an arcade game and a GT style game. The only reason I would get Forza 2 instead of GT5 or such is if the PS3 continues to cost what it does.
 
What is so much more sim about GT? Someone break it down for me cause it really is not going through my head. GT was the only sim type game I had played until recently I started playing Forza and after just a couple months I realized it is much more challenging. Braking is much more realistic..grip feels more natural..races feel rewarding. You guys must only focus on the photo-realistic look of GT and assume it feels more realistic. The tire sounds in GT are not much better than Forza.. it sounds like howling wind?! And tuning in GT does little to nothing in terms of handling. I'm over GT but I'll keeping an eye out and see if finally the fifth time around they'll make a game for their fans instead of more pretty recycled gaming.
 
dunkee
What is so much more sim about GT? Someone break it down for me cause it really is not going through my head. GT was the only sim type game I had played until recently I started playing Forza and after just a couple months I realized it is much more challenging. Braking is much more realistic..grip feels more natural..races feel rewarding. You guys must only focus on the photo-realistic look of GT and assume it feels more realistic. The tire sounds in GT are not much better than Forza.. it sounds like howling wind?! And tuning in GT does little to nothing in terms of handling. I'm over GT but I'll keeping an eye out and see if finally the fifth time around they'll make a game for their fans instead of more pretty recycled gaming.
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When I first played Forza while driving it felt more connected to the road then GT4. Sounds were better, AI was allot better, the game was fun. But as soon as I popped in GT4 the first thing that hit me was graphics, it was richer in texture vs. Forza. So I put Forza back in and wow night and day. Forza has that NFS shiny texture kind of bland look. Second there wasn't that many cars in Forza compared to GT4 (700+). So after I completed the game and tuned almost everycar. I got bored, I had no choice but to go back to GT4 lol..

I got to admit for some reason Forza just felt more connected to the road, it felt real and has good sounds. But I'm still lost with my decision I can't decide if the future Forza or GT, who will prosper. It must be presentation my first impression is arcadish when I see Forza preview's. Look at how they market Forza second look at Forza's features the way they present their features IMO has an arcade kind of way, easy to read with big bold letters with very colorful animation, almost like it's aimed more towards a 13yr and younger audience. Then look at how GT4 presents itself, very prestige, lightly mannered and concise with it's content. Lots of minute details to look at here it's the overall picture. I can see why most would say Forza is arcadish. I felt like that with the first Forza but I'm not concerned with that, I'm more concerned with how the car feels how real is it going to be and Forza did a really good job with that. But it did have some flaws as far as speed goes with some cars at certain tuned levels.

All Forza 1 needed was tighter graphics more cars and I'm sold.
👍

So back to the topic, I can say from my point of view it's 1. Graphics 2.Detail and 3. Gameplay 700+cars lol...

Dang now I'm back playing Forza, I love Road Atlanta.
 
dunkee
What is so much more sim about GT? Someone break it down for me cause it really is not going through my head. GT was the only sim type game I had played until recently I started playing Forza and after just a couple months I realized it is much more challenging. Braking is much more realistic..grip feels more natural..races feel rewarding. You guys must only focus on the photo-realistic look of GT and assume it feels more realistic. The tire sounds in GT are not much better than Forza.. it sounds like howling wind?! And tuning in GT does little to nothing in terms of handling. I'm over GT but I'll keeping an eye out and see if finally the fifth time around they'll make a game for their fans instead of more pretty recycled gaming.
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Physics wise Forza doesn't come close to GT4 in terms of realism. GT4 has some glaring flaws, but the only area Forza does well compared to GT4 is the tyre physics, everything else is wrong. As for tuning in GT not doing much to the handling, you can majorly alter the way a car can corner by messing with the suspension settings.
 
Just look at Forza 2's HD shots compared to GTHD shots. There is no way Forza will beat GT in the Graphics and Detail department. For example you can barely see the driver in Forza 2 where as in GT you can see his eyes lol. Second look how life like GTHD is compared to Forza huge difference in texture.

One shot from Forza's website.
Look at the Wheel gaps , this is what I was explaing to somone before about the 350z Road Atlanta video. All the cars in their screenshots have huge wheel gaps. I never seen a Diablo look like that, you can even see the lines are incorrect. Same with the Subaru shot.
fhd1zd7.png



GTHD shot.
http://www.granturismo-hd.com/screenshots/viewshot/gthdc_20.jpg
 
@ Sonzilla, Yeah I agree w/ you, graphically and presentation GT murders Forza. Forza models are not the best either. That's what I was saying, GT does look much more realistic but that doesn't mean the physics are more realistic. Forza 2 is not a dramastic improvement as I would have liked but overall it is satisfactory. Presentation has improved ten fold though. Mix in all the new pluses and it is worthwhile. Some of the models look pretty good..like this one.
Nissan_R390_01.jpg



@ Dave A, how does Forza not compare? I popped in GT4 last night just to get a better idea after playing Forza...first thing I noticed the brakes. That kills me how you can slam on the brakes and come to a dead stop! My real car has no abs so I want something to relate to.

Second all the cars understeer like crazy..it feels like you are on rails. It is already known especially at the nurb that the lap times are too unrealistic...that has to do w/ the easy driving physics.

Forza has telemetry..all tuned settings can be monitored and if the car works you can see it doing its job. Yes Forza is too "drifty" but that doesn't mean you're driving fast. In GT you can sometimes go faster sliding than grip. Forza when you start sliding you are losing lots of turn speed.

What I do give GT is the suspension animation..you can get a better idea of what the car is doing by the way the car and camera move. Forza feels like it is floating. That is what deterred me from the game at first..but after buying the game for $10 I figured I'd give it a chance. Now that I played both I can honestly say that the Forza tire physics do give a more challenging and enjoyable racing experience. It can be frustrating at times bc of the aggresive AI but def a better racing experience. I have gotten much better driving in Forza than GT..and to me that means something.
 
A prime example of Forza's physics being way off the mark is how easy it is to get a fwd car to oversteer. Irl, fwd cars understeer like a bitch, infact irl most road cars understeer fwd, rwd, 4wd, they all oversteer if you try to corner too fast. In Forza, the cars do not understeer like they should, the braking is largly to do with the tyres. As I said, Forza is good in that area, the suspension isn't that great, the collision phyics while crap in GT4, are stupider in Forza, in GT4 cars bounce off things, in Forza they stick to them like they're coated in tar. In GT4 if you use the simulation tyres on road cars your lap times generally will not be that far off the mark, speaking or realistic lap times, you do realise that Forzas are much further off the mark than GT4's don't you. However I've said this many times in the past, close lap times in a game are not a testiment to the games accuracy physics wise, they can be doctored. But honestly, if you want a more indepth discussion of physics and how it all works, search for an existing GT4 v Forza thread and you'll see some pretty indepth stuff in thoes. Forza doesn't touch GT4 when it comes to realism.
 
Dave A
A prime example of Forza's physics being way off the mark is how easy it is to get a fwd car to oversteer. Irl, fwd cars understeer like a bitch, infact irl most road cars understeer fwd, rwd, 4wd, they all oversteer if you try to corner too fast. In Forza, the cars do not understeer like they should, the braking is largly to do with the tyres. As I said, Forza is good in that area, the suspension isn't that great, the collision phyics while crap in GT4, are stupider in Forza, in GT4 cars bounce off things, in Forza they stick to them like they're coated in tar. In GT4 if you use the simulation tyres on road cars your lap times generally will not be that far off the mark, speaking or realistic lap times, you do realise that Forzas are much further off the mark than GT4's don't you. However I've said this many times in the past, close lap times in a game are not a testiment to the games accuracy physics wise, they can be doctored. But honestly, if you want a more indepth discussion of physics and how it all works, search for an existing GT4 v Forza thread and you'll see some pretty indepth stuff in thoes. Forza doesn't touch GT4 when it comes to realism.
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True no need to discuss what has been dicussed to death. I see your points but I just got over all of that. I like the challenge Forza brings..guess thats just me. I think if anyone who only played GT were to race against someone who only played Forza on a real sim like Rfactor or something, the Forza guy would win. Your points are all valid but all in all GT is still easier.
 
I would like to mention on accuracy and realism just throw on N3 tires on a spec C. Take it to the ring and on your first run, you can pretty much run an identical lap time as GOdSon, Compare videos gearing and speed would be so close to his run it's almost freaky to watch. Being that you don't hit anything and what not. In GT the N tires is as real as you can get, I've done allot of real time video comparos of my runs on N tires with really amazing results.


As dunkee points out the floating behavior. This is also what I noticed when comparing both games.

Can someone explain in further detail as to why? If it has been beaten to death a link is fine.
 
I personally think it's a fair battle,

Forza has the ability (if im not mistaken) to add decals and paintjobs to make a paintjob. It also has, by the looks of the trailer, handling damage such as suspension and brakes getting smashed.

GT on the other hand has hundred's of cars (maybe bikes if we are lucky) and the graphics look top-notch. If we are very very lucky, we might have better physics and A.I. as well as improved car models.

I somehow think GT5 is gonna win this battle and i have put together a list so you can see why i think GT5 is gonna win.

Positives
Heavily improved graphics.
Even more accurate car models.
Possibily better physics.
Most probably improved A.I.
New drift mode may boost GT's appeal.
New tracks such as Eiger Nordwand may make the game more fun and challenging.

Negatives
Drift mode may turn out to be NFS Fanboy style instead of GT style.
Drift mode may be rubbish.
The A.I. might actually end up worse instead of better.
Car physics may be too realistic or too unrealistic.
If they remove Nurburing, they may dissapoint many GT fans including me.

That's it. Now you see why GT will probably win.:)

Have a nice day:tup:

Citrus
 
I'd say forza is more of a complete sim compared to GT. But car handling-wise GT is untouchable (compared to FM) ATM.
 
could someone maybe put a pic from each game on here, such as from the same vehicle or the same track just so we could have a visual reference to look at?
 
buickgnx88
could someone maybe put a pic from each game on here, such as from the same vehicle or the same track just so we could have a visual reference to look at?
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Not the same car but I did notice the difference in wheel detail while driving. In Forza the rim it's mostly shaded with a blur shot of the rotor. In GT is fully textured.

Forza

simforza20043up4.jpg



GTHD

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@sonzilla

those rims need some work, but theres no denying that FM's graphics were greatly improved, maybe not better than GTs but still looks great. All in all FM2s gonna kick ass, the car handling doesn't work for me though.

GT5 = DROOL!!
 
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