Do you think that GT is losing the battle against Forza?

What do you think of GT now?

  • Still the best there is!!!

    Votes: 309 61.6%

  • Screw GT! I'll play Forza now!

    Votes: 36 7.2%

  • It's going to be a nice battle.

    Votes: 136 27.1%

  • I'm still playing Pole Position

    Votes: 21 4.2%
  • Total voters
    502
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For any of you wondering which way to go. GT5, PS3 or Forza 2, XBOX 360. I own an XBOX 360 and will be owning a PS3 at christmas. My family will be getting a check very soon and i might be purchasing Forza 2 if i find a copy (it might get sold out). So if i do decide to purchase Forza 2 then i will be able to see a different perspective on things (At the moment i'm saying stuff from a GT point of view). I will certainly get GT5 in 2008 and i'm sure 99% of people will as well, then we will see which is the better game.

There is no serious battle really, just a small rivalry.

Forza has that decal thing going on. Gran Turismo has good graphics and loads of cars to choose from going for it. It's a fair battle.

Both games will boost sales for their respective consoles. They will be both good games.
 
I'll be downloading the Forza demo tonight (I didn't even realize it had been released until I turned on my 360 earlier today for the first time in a couple of months).

What I've found interesting between the games, having played the first Forza, is that while both games are touted as "realistic" driving, they each have a very different feel. An expert at Forza can't pick up GT and immediately get record times, and vice versa. Simply because of how long I've been playing GT, that's always been my preferred feel of a "simulation" driving game, and I doubt that will change at all.

There's also the console comparison to consider into the calculations. Given a choice between two games on both platforms, I'll go for the PS3 version merely for the lesser annoyance. The X360 is just too damn loud, especially at full 12x or whatever that drive spins at when it's running a game. And my 360 is prone to occasional DREs in mid-game (I'll probably swap it out right before my product replacement plan expires at Best Buy).
 
dunkee
I just don't get why it is overlooked just bc it does not look as perfect as GT? I like driving cars as much as I like looking at them..but if I had to choose, (playing a game) I would rather have a better driving experience.
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Amen Brother. I love GT as much as the next guy, but after awhile, 6 pretty cars on a grid just gets a little old after awhile. During the past year, I stopped playing GT4 altogether for TOCA 3--fairly realistic if set on "sim", and 17+ cars on the grid.

Now that we're in next gen, I have high hopes for GT, Forza, and the next TOCA. But if GT puts out another "Hey, let's drive a bunch of pretty cars because it's a driving simulator rather than a racing simulator", I don't think I could remain interested in it for very long. I mean, how long are they going to keep re-releasing the same game on subsequent generation consoles without innovation?
 
Polyphony Digital- "Granturismo- The real driving simulator."
Rusty*- "The total Automotive experience Simulator."
Polyphony made the Granturismo series NOT ONLY JUST FOR RACING, but also for enjoying the amazing Cars and the whole Driving experience. I guess you really have to be into Cars....and not just racing around a track 50 MILLION times when the track is only 1.5K's long.....where's the fun in that???
PD makes GT for those who can appreciate the value of ALL the details of Realistic Driving.

Photomode, Nurburgring, El Capitan, GTHD's Eiger Nordwand etc......doesn't that tell everyone a little something about the direction that Polyphony is taking with Granturismo??💡
Polyphony takes there time so as to get the level of gaming perfection just where they want it before they release it.
A half done, half shot Driving Sim would look real messy if you where to crumble under the pressure of release date expectations. There are so many variable thats could go wrong if you rush something so detailed as Granturismo. GT is the only game of its kind, a Driving Sim is more than just a Race Sim.....its a Driving experience as opposed to just a Race experience.
GT5 I'm sure will be a stunning "Rendition of Realism" when its released.
GT has always been the "One" game for true Car and Driving enthusiasts, who have an appreciation for Realism.
GT is once again all about the whole Automotive gaming experience.
I say....all the best to Kaz and the whole Polyphony team as they produce the next installment in the Granturismo series.👍
Peace,
R*:sly:
 
Rusty*
Polyphony takes there time so as to get the level of gaming perfection just where they want it before they release it.
A half done, half shot Driving Sim would look real messy if you where to crumble under the pressure of release date expectations. There are so many variable thats could go wrong if you rush something so detailed as Granturismo.
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Gaming perfection? Sorry, but the only thing perfect about Gran Turismo 4 is that it's a perfect example of this "half-done, rushed, messy release that was pressured by release date expectations" you speak of. Don't be fooled by the fact that it took 5 million years to arrive in stores anyway.

Online racing (as promised)? Nope. Drag racing (as promised)? It's easy to forget about the drag strip since there's very little to do on it. Rally/"special conditions" racing? Tacked on for no reason but to show off the Grand Canyon. Tuner village? Mostly pointless. Open-top cars and convertible cars with the top down? Completely pointless...Graphics? Hardly changed. Sounds? Not changed at all. Physics? Don't get me started.

However, I'll readily admit that Forza 1 is even worse, largely because physics are a top priority for me, and Forza's cars handle like rotten fish. There's also the tracks, which were designed by a blind man, the somewhat strange car selection, and the staid career mode.

Still, if Forza 2 lives up to most of its own promises and actually presents a realistic physics model, PD is going to have a lot of work cut out for them. Porting GT4 to the PS3 and polishing it up a bit isn't going to cut it (I'm looking at you, GTHD...).
 
Forza 2 imo has raised the bar for a racing sim, I mean for one just listen to it, you can hear the Gallardo driving round the whole track and the cars sound very very accurate, no sewing machine fx like GT has always had, it's always annoyed me how GT can only get some cars sounding right (NSX Type-R for example and the Renault 5 turbo Rally Car). Turn 10 learned their mistake with the Nurburgring and have made it the way it should have been and also moved it from the Autumn setting back to Spring/Summer and the newest video at the pitpass shows this.

Customisation; GT can't touch Forza for this, just look at some of the creations people have come up with, that's originality right there, each person has THEIR car, it's not generic. Also in Forza 2 you can modify all cars even the exotics, there is a pic of an Italian magazine showing what they did to an F430 and it looks sweet ! (see below)



PD and GT need to get their finger out, they have a real competitor with Forza and Turn 10 have done more in the second iteration than PD has ever done with GT. I am a long life GT fan, I remember reading about GT and thinking wow this looks ideal but we are now almost 10 years later and you still read the same thing from PD regarding every new GT.

GT needs damage, it needs customisation, it needs online, it needs great sounds and it needs to be more like Forza. If you don't agree with that then sadly you are not going to help PD and GT evolve to what KY has always wanted the game to be, a full blown racing and driving simulator that gives you the feeling of pushing a car to it's limit and if you mess up then you suffer the consequences.

The only thing GT has over Forza is the car models and the amazing replays and Forza fans are letting know Turn 10 know how disappointed they are with this but if that's all it is then doesn't GT have quite a bit to go to give a more complete experience just like Forza does. Oh and let's not mention the AI either eh?

As said I am a long time GT fan but even I am getting bored and annoyed at PD's superior arrogance in thinking we don't need this or that it will sell millions anyway attitude. And I can also tell you I am not alone in thinking this either.
 
It is true that the current racing champ is GT, but just as most of you mentioned, the GT series has been monotone...

Ever since GT1 we've had the same suspenssion/brake/exhaust/engine((With exception of NOS)) upgrades, it's been basicly unchanged...

Ever since GT1, the car we bought remained the same color, and same overall shape ((Except GT1 and 2's racing mod option, which was scrapped at GT3). So we've all been driving, 1000bhp Stock-Looking Skylines... I mean, there comes a point that it's very dissaponting...

Ever since GT1, we've been stuck with 6 cars on the race track, and mostly bad A.I. that can't get around corners without hitting you or pushing you off your line if you brake early.

Forza 2, provides the level of customization that GT has failed to provide, now, you can tune your car's appearance, and not only for show, it does affect the drag and downforce they create, there's a level of unique-ness since you can personalize your car.

Forza 2, bring very different levels of customization that GT failed to improve upon, engine swaps, providing engine maps, etc.

Forza 2, regardless of not having the same as GT's graphics(( which esentially is GT's strenght)), will fall short if they decide for no damage modeling, not only cosmetics, but also mechanics. The realism provided by damage gives you a more real experience, and unfortantly, no matter how good GT5 will be, it might fall short if the only thing PD does, is polish the previous formula and re-release it.

GT could have improved a lot over the years, but PD got used to be on top, it only re-released the same formula, over and over again, then PGR came along, and all they did was polish the game a bit more, now Forza 2 steps in with serious power to take over GT5's place... Again... no matter how good it looks and how the physics go, if GT5 doesn't evolve, it will eventually fall short... This is next gen, and I expect a next gen GT, not a polished GT4...((GTHD)).
 
Judging by the last few posts, I think some of you totally missed what I said up above. That even though both games are "simulation", they handle VERY differently from one another. They are NOT the same game in a different wrapping.

I played the Forza demo this morning, and came away with "meh".

Personally, I don't care about what most of you are complaining about. Damage is neither here nor there, and the damage model in Forza 2 is no better than the first game.. largely cosmetic. I slammed into the back of another car at around 50mph, and suffered no ill effects other than some scratched paint. The car wasn't even dented that I could notice. In real life, that impact would have ended the race for me, totally destroying the front end of my car.. particularly the suspension, and probably killing the engine.

If that's what you people want out of "damage", then you're looking in the wrong place.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about customization. Hell, I don't even use performance upgrades in GT. I want to enjoy a car for what it is, not what I can make it. Once you start making modifications, then it's not the same car anymore. And visual upgrades are worse than useless to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's all a bunch of flashy ricer crap.

Bottom line is, I simply prefer GT's controls and the overall "feel" of driving the cars. It's not even about the racing for me, I just want to drive. I've spent 90% of my time playing GT4 doing nothing but hot laps on the 'Ring, and I've loved it. I doubt that will change with GT5.
 
Diab
Forza 2 imo has raised the bar for a racing sim, I mean for one just listen to it, you can hear the Gallardo driving round the whole track and the cars sound very very accurate, no sewing machine fx like GT has always had, it's always annoyed me how GT can only get some cars sounding right (NSX Type-R for example and the Renault 5 turbo Rally Car). Turn 10 learned their mistake with the Nurburgring and have made it the way it should have been and also moved it from the Autumn setting back to Spring/Summer and the newest video at the pitpass shows this.

Customisation; GT can't touch Forza for this, just look at some of the creations people have come up with, that's originality right there, each person has THEIR car, it's not generic. Also in Forza 2 you can modify all cars even the exotics, there is a pic of an Italian magazine showing what they did to an F430 and it looks sweet ! (see below)



PD and GT need to get their finger out, they have a real competitor with Forza and Turn 10 have done more in the second iteration than PD has ever done with GT. I am a long life GT fan, I remember reading about GT and thinking wow this looks ideal but we are now almost 10 years later and you still read the same thing from PD regarding every new GT.

GT needs damage, it needs customisation, it needs online, it needs great sounds and it needs to be more like Forza. If you don't agree with that then sadly you are not going to help PD and GT evolve to what KY has always wanted the game to be, a full blown racing and driving simulator that gives you the feeling of pushing a car to it's limit and if you mess up then you suffer the consequences.

The only thing GT has over Forza is the car models and the amazing replays and Forza fans are letting know Turn 10 know how disappointed they are with this but if that's all it is then doesn't GT have quite a bit to go to give a more complete experience just like Forza does. Oh and let's not mention the AI either eh?

As said I am a long time GT fan but even I am getting bored and annoyed at PD's superior arrogance in thinking we don't need this or that it will sell millions anyway attitude. And I can also tell you I am not alone in thinking this either.
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I wouldn't go that far, but I'd agree in a point that FM is better in overall racing experience. And about PD being arrogant, well, Do you have any idea about japanese culture? hehehe
 
Jedi2016
I played the Forza demo this morning, and came away with "meh".

...

Bottom line is, I simply prefer GT's controls and the overall "feel" of driving the cars. It's not even about the racing for me, I just want to drive.
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I had the chance to do a few laps of Laguna Seca on Forza1, and came away with pretty much the same feeling. The game just felt like a second rate port of GT4 with a few changes to protect them from any accusations of copying GT. The "feel" of driving the cars was lacking, as were the graphics and the selection of cars.

However, that was Forza1. The sequel could be much improved in these areas, and with their damage and paintshop - which were also lacking but much better than GT4's 5 second penalty and generic wings - PD could well have a fight on their hands.

But who knows what PD is working on? For all we know they have learned from Forza and are working on their own version of its features. The lack of info coming from Sony/PD might be due to a lack of anything newsworthy, or it might be that when GT5 Prologue is released it blows eveything else out of the water. We will just have to wait and see.
 
[QUOTE=Jedi2016;2658300]Judging by the last few posts, I think some of you totally missed what I said up above. That even though both games are "simulation", they handle VERY differently from one another. They are NOT the same game in a different wrapping.

I played the Forza demo this morning, and came away with "meh".

Personally, I don't care about what most of you are complaining about. Damage is neither here nor there, and the damage model in Forza 2 is no better than the first game.. largely cosmetic. I slammed into the back of another car at around 50mph, and suffered no ill effects other than some scratched paint. The car wasn't even dented that I could notice. In real life, that impact would have ended the race for me, totally destroying the front end of my car.. particularly the suspension, and probably killing the engine.

I guess you don't know that the damage in the FM2 Demo is set to cosmetic only. That's why it doesnt affect your cars drivability at all. Also the amazing A.I. is set a medium difficulty. Turn10 did this to make it easier for everyone that is not hardcore to like the demo. Simulation damage will put you out of the race if you are involved in a serious accident, you car will not be drivable. It will probably be more forgiving than real life though.

The way you describe your style of play on GT, I understand how FM2 may not excite you. But for those of us who buy a racing game to race FM2 should be great. The A.I. is great, they check brake is your riding their rear, I have even had them completely avoid and accident with me by either driving around me or completely stopping to avoid the car. Sometimes the accidents are unavoidable and the collide with you or the other cars trying to avoid the accident. It seems realistic, more than any other console racer to date.

The physics feel about the same to me as FM1. I loved GT4 and liked FM1 a lot. Not sure how much the physics have really changed but it very challenging using no assists and feels realistic.

The sound is in a OMFG category. Its incredible. You have to here it to believe it. Turn 10 actually has the Dyno recording of a Porsche and the in game sound up on their site for comparison, its ultra close. The tires sound real, they recorded cars burning out, sliding, etc. The crash impacts are spot on, again they recording actual cars wrecking to get it right.

The customization is scary. If you not interested, I'm not even gonna think about listing any of the new items.

GT5 may be your only choice, but if you have played the FM2 demo and said "meh", then I'm not sure that GT5 will even be able to satisfy you. Good luck.
 
GT can only dream of sounds like this: http://rapidshare.com/files/31087241/Video_7.wmv.html (not my video)

And Forza 2 damage is limited by the manufacturers, no company will allow the main compartment to be affected, that is why in Forza 2 your front and back get mangled but the sides only get scratched and slightly dented. You can't have rollovers either so for PD to say we can't do till we get it looking right is complete and utter dross, they'll never get it looking accurate because the car companies don't allow it, but the level of damage that Forza 2 gives is good enough and if PD were to expand with wheels that fall off and smoking engines and punctures then hell yeah that would be an improvement, but no damage at all is just dumb in this day and age of racing sims.

Also watch the Mustang AI car dodge this pileup: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ckasZ9Eag

Again I want GT5 to be absolutely brilliant but in order to do that it needs to learn from Turn 10 and the Forza series.
 
Well I must say, that sound file was impressive. 👍
The collision avoidance wasn't really impressive. Don't get me wrong, it looked like a step in the right direction but not much more than what GT4 and Forza 1 already had (in the scenerios both games would provide the AI with avoidance techniques and in both it was shoty, unpredictable, inconsistant, and heavily dependant on the specific situation at hand).

That said, I liked seeing a Gallardo in Forza 2. That's definately a selling point for Forza 2 (although FM2's total selling value for the system is still low).

Right now I feel like this battle (GT vs Forza) is very similar to the battle between the systems themselves. A media battle of perception is more important than anything else at this point.

My guess is that PD needs to release more confirmed content if they intend to keep up in this media war.

Does anyone have a video of FM2's Nurburgring?
If they got that right then I very well may move over to the 360 when it comes time to get my next gen system (as I still haven't decided which one to get).
 
Diab
GT can only dream of sounds like this: http://rapidshare.com/files/31087241/Video_7.wmv.html (not my video)

And Forza 2 damage is limited by the manufacturers, no company will allow the main compartment to be affected, that is why in Forza 2 your front and back get mangled but the sides only get scratched and slightly dented. You can't have rollovers either so for PD to say we can't do till we get it looking right is complete and utter dross, they'll never get it looking accurate because the car companies don't allow it, but the level of damage that Forza 2 gives is good enough and if PD were to expand with wheels that fall off and smoking engines and punctures then hell yeah that would be an improvement, but no damage at all is just dumb in this day and age of racing sims.

Also watch the Mustang AI car dodge this pileup: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ckasZ9Eag

Again I want GT5 to be absolutely brilliant but in order to do that it needs to learn from Turn 10 and the Forza series.
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I agree, but Turn10 also needs to learn from GT's magnificent replays. FM2's still suck. But that's a minor quibble
 
Kent
Well I must say, that sound file was impressive. 👍
The collision avoidance wasn't really impressive. Don't get me wrong, it looked like a step in the right direction but not much more than what GT4 and Forza 1 already had (in the scenerios both games would provide the AI with avoidance techniques and in both it was shoty, unpredictable, inconsistant, and heavily dependant on the specific situation at hand).

That said, I liked seeing a Gallardo in Forza 2. That's definately a selling point for Forza 2 (although FM2's total selling value for the system is still low).

Right now I feel like this battle (GT vs Forza) is very similar to the battle between the systems themselves. A media battle of perception is more important than anything else at this point.

My guess is that PD needs to release more confirmed content if they intend to keep up in this media war.

Does anyone have a video of FM2's Nurburgring?If they got that right then I very well may move over to the 360 when it comes time to get my next gen system (as I still haven't decided which one to get).
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http://download.microsoft.com/download/0/f/8/0f866fa6-9384-4d34-bdc1-4003618baafc/FM2_nurb_720p.wmv

There you go, I do think its much better than FM1, but won't know for sure till we get to race on it.
 
Kent you'll be happy to know that Turn 10 realised their mistake and went back and remodelled the Nordschleife and also have it set in Spring/Summer so no more orange and yellow trees around. The AI is very smart, I know that wasn't the best example but there are many examples where the AI show their actual intelligence, example going headon down the racing line they will turn to avoid you. Come off the track and then slide across in front they will brake heavily to avoid them. There are of course some dumb moments but Forza 2's AI actually races you rather than sticks to a preplanned route.

The Gallardo is the best sounding car, you can parkup at the top of the straightaway and listen to that wee beauty thrashing round the whole track. :) The F430 sounds good at higher revs also and the SLR, well let's just say Spitfire.

@Chad: No dispute there, the replays are utter crap compared to GT and their fans are telling them it !
 
In response to some of you:

Driving, is simply not enough, it's like buying a Bugatti Veyron and only doing 45 mph... at some point, you will WANT to let out all that power, and simply driving in GT4 is not enough. For tuners like me, the fact that you can change your car's appearance, is a big plus, so is the damage and extensive list of mods you can apply to the car.

The Mustang avoiding the pile up seems good, it's better than me choosing a line and a computer A.I. from GT4 using their line, regardless if I'm on their path, they try to ram me off the road.

For People like me who are in the tuner community, the fact that I can engine swap is pretty darn good. And GT now feels like a dried up lake... Forza 2 looking more like the Pacific Ocean... And Don't get me started on the paint and decals , online races, etc...

Honestly, I have not much care for actual racing, but I love drifting, and sure, I will race, but think about how could would it be to engine swap a FF car or AWD car, into an FR and take it drifting. Forza 2 just seems a lot cooler than GT4. Look at the vids:

They're not mine, but offer a pretty good explination of Forza 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch2Q6Q61y1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvI-yDijacI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZiR9Yp6BYs
 
Diab
GT can only dream of sounds like this: http://rapidshare.com/files/31087241/Video_7.wmv.html (not my video)

And Forza 2 damage is limited by the manufacturers, no company will allow the main compartment to be affected, that is why in Forza 2 your front and back get mangled but the sides only get scratched and slightly dented. You can't have rollovers either so for PD to say we can't do till we get it looking right is complete and utter dross, they'll never get it looking accurate because the car companies don't allow it, but the level of damage that Forza 2 gives is good enough and if PD were to expand with wheels that fall off and smoking engines and punctures then hell yeah that would be an improvement, but no damage at all is just dumb in this day and age of racing sims.

Also watch the Mustang AI car dodge this pileup: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ckasZ9Eag

Again I want GT5 to be absolutely brilliant but in order to do that it needs to learn from Turn 10 and the Forza series.
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Impressive.
However, the one bad thing Turn10 seemed to have gotten from PD is that the AI will hold their line and can't be moved. And it usually stays like that until you can get the front of your car past their's. Then, they start to give room.
 
Here's the thing, I've been playing Forza for the past 1.5 months & have played the entire GT series (still working on 4...78%).

Here's what I like and don't like about the 2 series:

Physics: The cars handle better in GT, period. However, when I race without the wheel (which is 100% of the time), Forza (Xbox in general) gives me better feedback, which feels more enjoyable to me. It's sort of like driving my '84 911 to my power assisted '91 miata, both good but different.

Cars: I love the car selection in Forza...The Porsches & the Ferraris (from the 550 Spyder & 288 GTO to the GT2/3s & 355/360s). These are the cars every racing game should have! FM2 even promises to have Lambos!!! I don't even care if GT has more kei cars & civics. In GT, It's like how many Skylines & RX-7s can they come up with? (I do like those cars too, but I like the variety FM offers me).

Tracks: GT has the better track selection. Monaco, a better version of the N-ring, La Sarthe. FM1 & FM2 both lack in the number of tracks, which gets old very quick. I wish they both had the track selection that TOCA 3 has...

Online & Customization: FM has both of those covered and GT has to play catch up, while FM2 will just improve since they already know what works & what doesn't.

Damage: FM has it and promises to be improved in FM2...GT5 might have it. (not really a deal breaker for me since I prefer my cars to stay un-dented! Apparently is a big deal for a lot of gamers though.)

AI: GT's has not really improved all that much...FM1's just seems brutal! Both promises to improve...

Replayability: GT has more racing, period...However, it does seem more like chore 50% of the time (Mnf championships with Altezzas & Voltz, etc.). FM offers a lot of fun through customization, but not a lot of racing.

WHAT BOTH SHOULD HAVE AS NEXT-GEN GAMES:

Weather: The FM series will not feature this since Dan Greenwald only likes to "race" in perfect wx conditions...beh! This would be a huge advantage if GT5 has it. PGR4 will have it & it looks great!! Will Polyphony Digital step up?

Night/Day changes: FM2 will mostly likely not have this feature...Again, a plus if GT5 has it. GTR on PC has this (and Wx) and it really changes the racing dynamic.

Bigger race grids: TOCA 3 has both of them beat on this, however GT5's trailers promises bigger grids of around a dozen.



Anyways, both games have their + and -, so 1st game that manages to incorporate all the pluses the other game has will have the advantage...Technically, the GT series is better, but I'm finding FM to be more fun...

As far as FM2 vs. GT5, I'm still undecided as of now as both games are still unreleased, but I think GT5 holds a bigger promise than FM2 (though that might change via DLCs).
 
I hope GT5 gets it right, because I have just had a look at it's competition and boy does it look good:sly: . I mean look for your selves. Take it all in, looking at the cars; the scenery and the glowing brake discs.:scared:

Is this an indication as to why PD pulled back the release date and continued working on it?:bowdown: If anyone has any information please come forward and enlighten us all.

http://forzamotorsport.net/media/

Pagani_Zonda_01_tn.jpg

VW_GTi_02_tbn.jpg
911Turbo_02_tbn.JPG
Maserati_01_tbn.JPG
Enzo_01_tbn.JPG
 
PD never stopped working on it, and theres no release date yet. Also, Forza 2 doen't look anywhere near as good as GTHD does unfourtunatley. I'll have both probably. :)
 
How is that not better than GT HD, i love the GT series but, i can definatly say that Forza Motersport 2 is better. even the engine notes are better!!!!👍
 
Playing GTHD yesterday after playing the FM2 demo, GTHD certainly does look superior. Things are sharper and crisper, and the lighting is an improvement. Though I do prefer FM2's physics at the moment, but GT5 is still a long way away yet.

And yes - the sounds are exactly the same as GT4's, so they still suck. FM2's are pretty good! 👍
 
Plenty of detail in those pictures, but is the real world really that glossy? It almost looks as if those pictures have been varnished, or do I need my eyes testing?
 
I agree with the above about many of his points, but here is one little detail:

Forza 2 comes out late this month, and most of us are happy and can't wait to get all the amazing content we KNOW it will have...

GT5 is still in the works, and no official word on the game has been released, other than it's in the works... This hush hush strategy, is actually hurting the game, making racers go over to Forza 2 or TOCA, because of what they KNOW they will get... Maybe PD is working on an Over-kill GT5, to claim the spot as KING of Racing games... But even if it is... it's being too quiet... It should let us in a bit more...

About another post: People claim that driving in GT is enough, that it's a Driving Simulator... and it's true, even the game title says it... But you know what... then give me real rodes to drive... and make me a RACING SIMULATOR.
 
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