Does hardware make a large difference?(wheels)

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Devil240Z

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Devil240Z
I was just curious if anyone who knows or is in a position to investigate. But does having a better wheel make driving easier? I ask cause I use a Driving Force Pro. If I upgraded to say a G27, would that make me a better driver? I know my wheel is outdated and slow. I know upgrading would feel better in alot of ways but would it make someone more competitive online?

Don't bother telling me to upgrade just to justify your purchase cause I don't actually intend to buy a new wheel yet. I probably will when my DFP breaks or becomes incompatible with GT. Just give me your honest feedback and experience.

And basically will spending like $300USD on a new wheel feel like a good pruchase when my DFP still works just as good as when I got it in the GT4 days?
 
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Newer wheels benefit mostly in the form of much better FFB response and, in the case of the T500, greater rotation. Yes, there is a chance that a better wheel will make you a bit faster (most of that due to the gated shifter the more expensive wheels have if you can master it) but skill on your part is more of the deciding factor by far. The jump simply won't be as great as that from the controller to a wheel.
 
If the force feedback is better it might make it easier to feel the grip or bumps in the road etc. I have only tried the Driving Force GT though so I can't compare it with anything else.
 
Tornado
Newer wheels benefit mostly in the form of much better FFB response and, in the case of the T500, greater rotation. Yes, there is a chance that a better wheel will make you a bit faster (most of that due to the gated shifter the more expensive wheels have if you can master it) but skill on your part is more of the deciding factor by far. The jump simply won't be as great as that from the controller to a wheel.
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I don't think a gated shifter will ever make someone faster. even the paddles on a DFP are faster than actually shifting.
Not that I wouldn't love the sensation of pushing in the clutch and shifting with a gearstick.
 
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The thing that made the biggest difference for me was the pedals. Started off with DFGT, then G27, now Fanatec GT3 RS with CSR Elite load cell brake pedal and I've gotten faster and more precise each time. The box for me pedals even said....
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The box preaches the truth.
 
It won't make a difference. I always see the DFGT as the minimum you should invest in a wheel. Good enough quality and good FFB (I myself use a G27). Anything above that is just a matter of better quality and feeling (read: realism maybe). It won't make you quicker though. Below the DFGT you might get sub-par quality and FFB though.
 
pyrates
It won't make a difference. I always see the DFGT as the minimum you should invest in a wheel. Good enough quality and good FFB (I myself use a G27). Anything above that is just a matter of better quality and feeling (read: realism maybe). It won't make you quicker though. Below the DFGT you might get sub-par quality and FFB though.
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Yeah I would never buy or recommend anything less than a DFGT. I just don't see a DFGT as a worthy upgrade to a DFP, its better but not $150 better. Would rather go all out and get a G27 or better.
 
A DFGT is not worth an upgrade to a DFP, no. The FFB is slightly better as is some (but not all) of the button placement, but for GT6 the RA wheel isn't nearly as useful and you lose the occasionally very helpful manual lock. Plus there is such a glut of ~$70 DFGT's available used if you have patience that it's really not worth buying a new one at all.

Devil240Z
I don't think a gated shifter will ever make someone faster. even the paddles on a DFP are faster than actually shifting.
Not that I wouldn't love the sensation of pushing in the clutch and shifting with a gearstick.
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The most you can probably do with the clutch is match some guy with paddle shifters, yes, particularly because of the game's very screwy clutch emulation; but with the clutch and gearbox also comes the ability to skip gears and actually engine brake, and with that comes the ability to better rotate the car when you find the need.
 
BrandonW77
The thing that made the biggest difference for me was the pedals. Started off with DFGT, then G27, now Fanatec GT3 RS with CSR Elite load cell brake pedal and I've gotten faster and more precise each time. The box for me pedals even said....
View attachment 124553 View attachment 124554 View attachment 124555 View attachment 124556 View attachment 124557
The box preaches the truth.
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I was on the edge of my seat:lol:

If you have the skills and the patience to work on them, better equipment will make you faster. The more accurate and subtle the feedback, the more you know what PD is trying to tell you with the car physics and the faster you can be, but it's not something that just comes, especially if you are already fairly fast. I have never used the DFP but I have upgraded from the DFGT to the G27 and upgraded the G27 wth the @GTEYE brake mod and I'm faster as a result. It's also a much quieter wheel and just feels better, heavier and more like a real wheel...albeit a small diameter one:lol:
 
Devil240Z
I was just curious if anyone who knows or is in a position to investigate. But does having a better wheel make driving easier? I ask cause I use a Driving Force Pro.
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I would say yes, but the difference you get can vary. I used a DFP for GT4/5. I could feel the benefits over a controller, but it felt tiny and I only ever had an office chair or dining room chair to sit on, which was not comfortable. At certain events, like auto shows, etc I could find GT running while plugged into a very nice wheel and racing seat. This transforms the whole experience because you get better feedback, are more comfortable, and because your wheel doesn't try to jump out of your lap.

I honestly think a good cockpit or seat is worth more than going from an OK wheel to a great wheel.
 
I went from a Driving Force Pro (I got it for my PS2 and GT4, though I used on PC as well) to a G27 once it came out back in the day (still using it and working just fine) and yes you can drive "not better" but more precisely.

The thing is that the DFP feels more heavy and is not so good with the FFB if you compare it with the G27. It doesn´t mean that you can´t be fast with it if you are used to it. (I still have it and almost new in a box by the way...)

The G27 is lighter more like an actual wheel, and thanks to the Helical Force Feedback Gearing it gives you more feeling of the actual road...which can improve a lot your reactions compared to the heavy feeling of the DFP. It makes no sounds as well while turning around corners and such.
It also feels good in your hands once you touch the leather and the size is quite nice.

Then add that you have a 6th manual shifter and pedals with clutch and such...which feel a lot better as well. You can actually drive the cars as they should if you think about it. With the DFP is not possible...though is not bad but once you feel the pedals of the G27 you can´t go back to the plastic and lighter ones from the DFP.

It is like day and night really.

As of now there are better ones than the G27 but also the feel is what changes...some people buy a T500RS over a G27 and then go back to the G27 (in rFactor for example...the G27 somehow feels better than a newer wheel with a different gear system).
Then you have the good Fanatec wheels...and then you con go crazy and get a 2000+U$/€ and go real pro...but won´t work in a console...


I give you this review from the G27 by Playseat...is quite complete with videos explaining stuff and such:http://www.playseat.com/en/logitech-G27-review



One thing to have in mind...the wheel is not everything...you need really good hardware to take out all the potential, good frame rates, some games may give you some imput lag even if your hardware is good enough and then the game itself should have or give real sensations or feedback to your wheel. (the major difference between an arcade racing game and a simulator...with of course the physics itself)
Also some games works better with some wheels or others...etc.
 
I went from a DF pro to the G25, then G27 for my main wheel over the last ~6 years. I also have a Fanatec CSR, T500 and DFGT. The DF Pro you have tends to be very dampened in FFB compared to all the others mentioned. I made a good leap of improvement on hard to drive car/tire/track combos just because of the FFB improvement. Good pedals are very helpful for running alien times though, the ability to perform good trail braking is crucial and a good brake pedal really helps. With that said, if you are a DIY type of person you can easily change the feeling of a G25/G27 brake pedal to be very progressive like a load cell pedal.
As mentioned also you need something solid to mount it on to help the experience. Also a low lag display is critical. A display with lots of input lag will kill your consistency. TV's tend to have a lot more lag than monitors, because they do a lot more signal processing. There are several dedicated site on the net for researching low lag monitors.

The G27 is actually on sale right now it seems, $240 at amazon. I've noticed the price of them is all over the place through out the year for some reason, with the max at amazon or newegg usually at $300.
 
Ability to adjust steering degree with hardware makes a difference.
Stupid PS3/GT6 can't change it otherwise. Main reason for me to upgrade from DFGT.
 
I have both a DFP and a G27. The biggest difference for me are the sound, wheel diameter and pedals. The FFB motors in the G27 are a lot quieter than the DFP. I think it would be more fair to compare the DFP to a DFGT or a G25 in terms of sound. The pedals on the G27 are worlds better than the DFP's. The pedals alone I feel provide the single best improvement in performance over the DFP. And lastly, the wheel diameter of the G27 makes driving road cars much easier. I always liked the smaller DFP wheel for driving F1 cars, but for road cars it always felt too small. I didn't think the FFB difference was that huge, but I never used my DFP on a PC.

I was running my DFP with GT4 on my PS2 also. It's probably been one of my best/longest lasting video game investments ever. It still works great and is in great condition. Looking to get rid of it now that I have my G27. I wanted to build a second rig but the wife shut that one down.
 
I race with a guy that uses a DFP and he is very quick (GT Academy finalist quick). I would think DFP to G27 might make you faster ( faster / cleaner FFB ). Better pedals will make a difference as well.

In my experience, I didn't see much of a drop in lap time because of the wheel (DS3 to DFGT to G27 ) but consistency was increased each time. So my avg lap time was reduced, and I practiced more to get my qualifying times down.
 
i went from a DFGT to a G27 other than the wheel being a lot less noisy and covered in leather i didn't find a great difference. the pedals had a massive impact though, but you could just put some squash balls behind them to get better resistance
 
BrandonW77
The thing that made the biggest difference for me was the pedals. Started off with DFGT, then G27, now Fanatec GT3 RS with CSR Elite load cell brake pedal and I've gotten faster and more precise each time. The box for me pedals even said....

The box preaches the truth.
Click to expand...

in the last picture, one of them is the shifter, but what's the other thing ? hand-break ?
 
lGNAl
in the last picture, one of them is the shifter, but what's the other thing ? hand-break ?
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One is a 6-speed H-shifter, the other is a sequential shifter. They come as a set but I only use the sequential.......and absolutely love it! I don't think I've used the flappy paddles at all since I got the sequential shifter. 👍
 
I wish there was a wheel that
- has the same turning radius as most real cars (pick an average point and go with it) with adjustability.
- as large as most real cars (again pick an average size)
- feels like real cars -hydraulic or electric- (adjustable)
- has a hand break
- light controls (incl. high-low flashing)
- turn signal control (with hazard lights)
- windshield wiper controls

The setup of the controls would be same position as real cars.

Would it be much more expensive than current wheels, and hence (they think) no one would buy it ? ..
 
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Exorcet
I would say yes, but the difference you get can vary. I used a DFP for GT4/5. I could feel the benefits over a controller, but it felt tiny and I only ever had an office chair or dining room chair to sit on, which was not comfortable. At certain events, like auto shows, etc I could find GT running while plugged into a very nice wheel and racing seat. This transforms the whole experience because you get better feedback, are more comfortable, and because your wheel doesn't try to jump out of your lap.

I honestly think a good cockpit or seat is worth more than going from an OK wheel to a great wheel.
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While I don't disagree with that. I use an office chair in my setup and find it pretty comfortable. I just kinda got lucky that I can even use a wheel at all. since the way I have my TV positioned and that I can put the pedals under my TV and mount the wheel right in front of it. Its not perfect but I'm thankful I have this option. I didn't get to play much of GT5 with a wheel cause I had no where to mount it in the place I used to live.

lGNAl
I wish there was a wheel that
- has the same turning radius as most real cars (pick an average point and go with it) with adjustability.
- as large as most real cars ( again pick an average size)
- feels like real cars -hydraulic or electric- (adjustable)
- has a hand break
- light controls (incl. high-low flashing)
- turn signal control (with hazard lights)
- windshield wiper controls

The setup of the controls would be same position as real cars.

Would it be much more expensive than current wheels, and hence (they think) no one would buy it ? ..
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Someday the Driving sim hardware market will catch up to the flight sim hardware market.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned how much faster a better wheel will return to center. It was the single biggest problem I had with the DFP next to the arm breaking weight of simply turning it due to the gearing in it.

It is far easier to make minute corrections and feel undulations in the track with the G27 compared to the DFP. Also the paddle shifting feels much nicer and the clutch is a nice option for cruising around or challenging yourself a bit more with heel/toe.
 
Bwlian
Ability to adjust steering degree with hardware makes a difference.
Stupid PS3/GT6 can't change it otherwise. Main reason for me to upgrade from DFGT.
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Except you cannot change steering sensitivity on the DFGT. Not in GT anyway.

On other games it's great, and on all PC games it's great as you can change settings in the profiler, and steering weight and FFB can be adjusted independently - something one would have thought, the "Official GT Wheel" would have been capable of.... LOL.

For GT, you need a wheel where parameters can changed on the wheel itself - like the Fanatecs. The DFGT is way too heavy, and lacks the major FFB effects, even if turned up high. So, don't get a DFGT "JUST" for GT6... you will be disappointed.
 

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