Downloadable cars for GT5p

[GT_Fanatic]

What has expensive HDTV's got to do with overpriced DLC? This isnt a question of whether they should make a profit (as Dave A actually said) but a question of how much profit.

The consumer can't dictate to the companys on how much they charge for their products, or how much they profit from their sales. for instance, the price of food is going up and up. so when you go shopping and you see the food you normaly buy has gone up in price, what are you going to do? Not buy it and come home without food? of course you wouldn't. You buy it because thats the price you have to pay in order to eat.

 

[Dave A]

Actually you were, you kept implying that I wanted something for nothing and that I was against the companies making a profit. I'm not. I'm simply poining out that current DLC tends to be vastly over priced for what you get. A TV including reserach and devlopment, packaging, distribution and sales costs doesn't make 500% profit over these costs. DLC has a tendancy to do that, the profits on DLC are stupidly high compared to other things. I'm not asking for you to say "fair enough, from now on I will never buy overpriced DLC again" though to be honest if enough people did do that the prices for DLC would start to drop. Rather your posts were implying that the prices we see are needed to cover the costs of runing and making this content and that the content was not over priced, you then advocated charging as much as £5 for a single car. All I'm doing is pointing out that the prices we currently are beign charged are like a year long christmas for the companies profit wise.

 

[Hun200kmh]

QUESTION: There's something I don't understand, and I'm sorry if this is Off Topic, but it's about downloadable content.


Let's imagine GT5 comes out with 1000 cars and 100 tracks, ok, we buy the Blu Ray disc, we all have them all.


Then, PD releases 10 DL packs with new cars . Some buy them all, some don't buy any, and many will buy only the packs with the cars they like.

How will online play work then?

I think that we can't race against cars that we don't have stored on our PS3's HDD. So, the game will only let me enter any event if, when I try to enter, everyone already there: a) is using cars I have on my PS3; b) have my chosen car in their PS3.

Of course, after I'm in, anyone with a car that I (and everyone else present) don't have will not be able to enter.

Is that it? Sorry if this post is a bit confusing, but english isn't my native language and my vocabulary is very limited when using it.

 

[homeforsummer]

I paid £3000 for my Bravia 1080p TV. did I get ripped off dave?

Depends what size it was. If you bought a 32" then yes, you got ripped off I joke, but on a more serious point, getting "ripped off" is all relative. I would expect that most people wouldn't mind about getting charged a small amount in exchange for genuinely good content that simply wasn't possible at the game's release (for example, a pack of cars 6 months down the line that hadn't even been released when the game came out) but if PD release content that should have been in the game in the first place and charge for it, then I'd consider that "getting ripped off" 👍

Then, PD releases 10 DL packs with new cars . Some buy them all, some don't buy any, and many will buy only the packs with the cars they like.

How will online play work then?

I think that we can't race against cars that we don't have stored on our PS3's HDD. So, the game will only let me enter any event if, when I try to enter, everyone already there: a) is using cars I have on my PS3; b) have my chosen car in their PS3.

Of course, after I'm in, anyone with a car that I (and everyone else present) don't have will not be able to enter.

Is that it? Sorry if this post is a bit confusing, but english isn't my native language and my vocabulary is very limited when using it.

You make a good point, I've often wondered that too 👍 And don't worry, your post wasn't confusing at all.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Actually you were, you kept implying that I wanted something for nothing and that I was against the companies making a profit. I'm not. I'm simply poining out that current DLC tends to be vastly over priced for what you get. A TV including reserach and devlopment, packaging, distribution and sales costs doesn't make 500% profit over these costs. DLC has a tendancy to do that, the profits on DLC are stupidly high compared to other things. I'm not asking for you to say "fair enough, from now on I will never buy overpriced DLC again" though to be honest if enough people did do that the prices for DLC would start to drop. Rather your posts were implying that the prices we see are needed to cover the costs of runing and making this content and that the content was not over priced, you then advocated charging as much as £5 for a single car. All I'm doing is pointing out that the prices we currently are beign charged are like a year long christmas for the companies profit wise.

Dave mate, your constantly moaning about over priced products and how the companys are robbing the consumers. WE KNOW ALL THIS. If you think it's too dear, don't buy it. I thought my ex girlfriend was a moaner, jeeez.

 

[MustangSVT]

How will online play work then?[/B]

I think that we can't race against cars that we don't have stored on our PS3's HDD. So, the game will only let me enter any event if, when I try to enter, everyone already there: a) is using cars I have on my PS3; b) have my chosen car in their PS3.

Of course, after I'm in, anyone with a car that I (and everyone else present) don't have will not be able to enter.

Is that it? Sorry if this post is a bit confusing, but english isn't my native language and my vocabulary is very limited when using it.

Do it the way Forza 2 does it. They have a free car in each pack. If you download that free car, it actually downloads the information for the other cars too, so you can see them if other people are using them, but you cannot use them yourself. Or just make a mandatory online update where you download all the cars/tracks, but just can't use them unless you buy them. That way you have the sound/graphics info for the cars if someone else uses them but you didn't purchase them yourself.

 

[AERO_HDT]

What's your idea of "ripped off"?

Put it this way, if you were to go out and buy a VW Golf GTi and then you had to buy each and every individual component from the factory at factory replacement prices, you'd end up with a Golf that costs 3 times as much as the original.

Personally I don't see Gran Turismo as a rip-off, I see it as ridiculously cheap entertainment. Considering I've gotten 10 years and tens of thousands of hours of entertainment from a product that I've paid.... in total... maybe $550AU dollars for, then that to me works out to be an annual entertainment bill of $55AU bucks. Work that out to a monthly bill and that's about $4.50 per month, so about a buck per week for a game that I probably spend 50 hours on.

If someone said to me when I was a kid and playing in the arcade parlour that instead of paying 20c for a 20 minute game that one day I'd be able to pay $1 dollar and play a game for 50 hours a week I would have never believed it.

I don't see any part of Gran Turismo as a rip off. If I want it, I'll pay for it, it's my choice, I'll decide what's a rip-off and what's not and I agree with GT_Fanatic (nice name mate!). Perception is a big part of how we value our money and what it comes to Gran Turismo, it's money well spent.

I'm not being ripped off. I've been ripped off before and I know when it happens. If I choose to spend my money on DLC then that's my choice. Being ripped off is when you don't have that choice anymore.

 

[Dave A]

Dave mate, your constantly moaning about over priced products and how the companys are robbing the consumers. WE KNOW ALL THIS. If you think it's too dear, don't buy it. I thought my ex girlfriend was a moaner, jeeez.

No I'm not, point missed again. What I'm outlining is that there is a difference between acceptable profit margins and daylight robbery. My argument is prett specific, that the markups on DLC are far too high compared to the actual games you buy even taking into consideration the lower sales volumes of DLC. I don't mind paying so the company can operate a health profit, but beacuse DLC can be handed out for sums of money that to some people is enough for them to spend without worrying. For example 10 cars for £5, you might think "thats a bit expensive" but then think "oh well, I won't miss the fiver". It's this mentality that the companies selling DLC thrive on, and if you realise the prices are too high and decide to pay anyway that's fine, that's upto you. But it's the arguing in defence of the prices I don't get, why when you have admitted that you already know that the prices are too high do you continue to defend the prices and argue against the people who say the prices are too high like me and Ardius. I'm not saying you should start a revolt, I'm simply pointing the finger at flaws in logic and sense .

 

[P1]

QUESTION: There's something I don't understand, and I'm sorry if this is Off Topic, but it's about downloadable content.


Let's imagine GT5 comes out with 1000 cars and 100 tracks, ok, we buy the Blu Ray disc, we all have them all.


Then, PD releases 10 DL packs with new cars . Some buy them all, some don't buy any, and many will buy only the packs with the cars they like.

How will online play work then?

I think that we can't race against cars that we don't have stored on our PS3's HDD. So, the game will only let me enter any event if, when I try to enter, everyone already there: a) is using cars I have on my PS3; b) have my chosen car in their PS3.

Of course, after I'm in, anyone with a car that I (and everyone else present) don't have will not be able to enter.

Is that it? Sorry if this post is a bit confusing, but english isn't my native language and my vocabulary is very limited when using it.

PD could include the cars in an update so people who dont buy them can still see them but cant use them.

 

[Dave A]

That's the sensible thing to do, the purchase basically acts as an unlock code. The only downside to a company doing this is that it does leave a door open to having the downloads cracked without buying them. It's not something that's that prevailant on consoles though, at least not to my knowledge.

 

[AERO_HDT]

But then you get the argument that "if I paid money for the disc and that content is already on there, why do I have to pay more to unlock it?"

LOL, this is a bit of a circle isn't it?

Let's face it though, PC has expansion packs for just about every game out there. I'd say that PD should have the main game and then release a few BIG expansions with say 100+ cars on each one and maybe a few tracks and extra options.

If I bought WOW, I wouldn't expect to be playing the Burning Crusades campaign without paying for it first would I?

 

[Dave A]

No, because the content isn't on the disk and all and any content that is, should or otherwise would have been on the disk should be on the disk and available at no extra charge. A stance I've never changed. What we're talking about here is PD release an update after the games release, the update automatically downloads to your game when you next load up while connected. However none of the cars and/or tracks downlaoded are acessible by you until you buy them. This method allows you to race against and to see these cars when playing against other people who are using them, so basically it's a car pack that is free to downloads and downloads autmoatically, but until you buy it you can't use any of the contents yourself.

 

[Skynyrd1977]

I can't wait for downloadable content. I can't wait for an extra 10 cars, 20 cars, 50 cars. I want to own a piece of Gran Turismo that 5 year old kids can't own.

You make a decent point in the rest of your post, but 5 year old children of parents with money but no sense (is that a pun?) will have what ever they want.

If we're going to pay three digits for GT5 when it comes out, then I will be participating in my own personal boycott of any pay-for-download cars.

unless...

no, never mind.

 

[greenlightning]

I have not read all the threads in this topic. However if download content was reasonably priced I would rather have it then not have an opertunity to have it. What if they also gave users an x amount of days to try out cars from time to time for free. Meaning maybe every month a certain number of cars was available for a week or so for free use. They could use this to entice people to pay to download cars etc. Perhaps when they get more, better organized races you could win these cars etc. Another thought to ponder if GT5 allows you to trade cars online or auction etc.. Than if there was downloadable content would they allow downloaded cars to be traded or sold, not likely.

 

[91hondawagon]

What if they also gave users an x amount of days to try out cars from time to time for free. Meaning maybe every month a certain number of cars was available for a week or so for free use. They could use this to entice people to pay to download cars etc. Perhaps when they get more, better organized races you could win these cars etc.

That's not a bad idea. Being able to try before you buy would certainly help gamers make decisions on what cars they'd consider buying. It would also give them experience of how the car handles and performs, and whether or not it would help them win races. Very good idea, greenlightning.

I also like the second idea about winning cars. Do you mean that instead of having to buy cars, you can win them through online events? If so, then that would really encourage online drivers to be good, and it would raise the level of competition.

+1 for the ideas. You're on to something here 👍.

 

[klondike]

We still havent seen a link to any official statement that there will come downloadebel content for GT5 Prologue, that we will have to pay for ( other than the TV stuff ). Wich is not really a part of the game. Its all speculation and rumours.

The only official statement so far from PD. is that we will get the update 1 August, then later this year we will get another free update wich, is supposed to enhance online expirience.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

No I'm not, point missed again. What I'm outlining is that there is a difference between acceptable profit margins and daylight robbery. My argument is prett specific, that the markups on DLC are far too high compared to the actual games you buy even taking into consideration the lower sales volumes of DLC. I don't mind paying so the company can operate a health profit, but beacuse DLC can be handed out for sums of money that to some people is enough for them to spend without worrying. For example 10 cars for £5, you might think "thats a bit expensive" but then think "oh well, I won't miss the fiver". It's this mentality that the companies selling DLC thrive on, and if you realise the prices are too high and decide to pay anyway that's fine, that's upto you. But it's the arguing in defence of the prices I don't get, why when you have admitted that you already know that the prices are too high do you continue to defend the prices and argue against the people who say the prices are too high like me and Ardius. I'm not saying you should start a revolt, I'm simply pointing the finger at flaws in logic and sense .

Dave, i'm not agreeing with the higher price of DLC, nor arguing in defence of the prices that developers charge for DLC. What i've been saying is that developers have to make a profit on the DLC they offer to the consumer. My point that i've expressed in my posts is that some people will be happy to pay the given price for the DLC that they are are offered, and some people won't be happy to pay. I'm not advocating that PD should charge £10 for a 2 car DLC pack. What I stated in one of my recent posts was my own personal opinion, that if that 2 car DLC pack contained cars that were only available through DLC, and they were 2 of my favourite cars, then I personaly would pay at least £10 for that pack. I was in no way saying that everyone should be made to pay that amount. Of course, it would be ideal if the developers offered the DLC for free, but thats highly unlikely to happen. PD have been supplying us with free updates since GT5p was released, but as you have probably read in the news section on the "my page" screen, it states that the next free update will be on August 1st. Note that it states the next FREE update. In my view, what they are insinuating is that future updates will be at a price. Now I believe that those future updates that will be at a price, will include, amongst other things, cars and tracks. Thats your chargeable DLC right there. One guy posted here asking for a link showing some kind of proof that PD will be charging for DLC, if I can find a link showing that, then I will post it here, but in my view this is how PD are going to be providing the cars and tracks, and thats via the future updates. As PD have confirmed recently that they are now solely concentrating on GT5p for the foreseeable future, they are gradually incorporating GT5p into GT5. What the cost of the updates will be, who knows? Of course, it's just speculation at the moment, but this is my take on the view.

 

[MeWhiteNoise]

The main point that I and probably many others are worried about is GT5 being released with less content on launch, which consequently gets released later on as chargeable DLC as a way of generating extra revenue. GT4 had over 700 cars, and considering the amount of time PD have had now I would hope for a realistically comparable figure in GT5. I have no qualms with software houses releasing DLC to increase longevity of a title and to keep the punters interested, and I (despite talking the talk) would probably buy (within reason) DLC, as long as it's reasonably priced, and not at the expense of an empty piece of launch software. Just hope PD doesn't go to to the George Lucas school of creaming cash from loyal punters!

 

[GT_Fanatic]

The main point that I and probably many others are worried about is GT5 being released with less content on launch, which consequently gets released later on as chargeable DLC as a way of generating extra revenue. GT4 had over 700 cars, and considering the amount of time PD have had now I would hope for a realistically comparable figure in GT5. I have no qualms with software houses releasing DLC to increase longevity of a title and to keep the punters interested, and I (despite talking the talk) would probably buy (within reason) DLC, as long as it's reasonably priced, and not at the expense of an empty piece of launch software. Just hope PD don't go to to the George Lucas school of creaming cash from the loyal punters!

Kazunori has stated that PD have already spent 3 years developing content for prologue, due to the complexity of the programming involved. Kazunori said that although he wants to implement all the things that GT fans want into GT5, it's going to take a long time to achieve it, so bits are being added gradually in the form of the updates. kaz also said that there will be far less cars in GT5 than there was in GT4, due to the time it takes to model the cars. But it's said that more cars will become available to download after GT5 is finaly released. It was said that the more exotic models will be more expensive to DL, which makes sense, but no price was mentioned.

 

[AERO_HDT]

Kaz has hinted at online trading of special cars and releasing 'Limited Edition' cars too which may be limited to something akin to their rarity in real life.

If that happens, I'm sure we'll end up with a price war on our hands, hehe. 1000 Porsche 959's to the highest bidders for DLC?

 

[P1]

It will be in game money like forza has unicorn cars were you can only buy the off 1 person who works for T10 and they go for about 10 million credits each.

 

[MeWhiteNoise]

GT_Fanatic, thanks for that. I completely understand that cars in GT5P take a lot longer to model than previous incarnations, hence my 'realistically comparable' comment regarding the amount of cars. Although, anything less than 200 (especially if there are 92 variations of R33) and I think I'd feel a bit cheated One thing I didn't agree with though (which I understand wasn't your comment) was...

It was said that the more exotic models will be more expensive to DL, which makes sense, but no price was mentioned.

It's not like we are actually buying a real life car? Why does it make sense to have to pay more for a virtual car that in production times probably costs no more to model etc. than any other car? It's not like we are actually owing a Ferrari or RUF etc. etc? Doesn't make any sense at all to me?!

 

[GT_Fanatic]

GT_Fanatic, thanks for that. I completely understand that cars in GT5P take a lot longer to model than previous incarnations, hence my 'realistically comparable' comment regarding the amount of cars. Although, anything less than 200 (especially if there are 92 variations of R33) and I think I'd feel a bit cheated One thing I didn't agree with though (which I understand wasn't your comment) was...



It's not like we are actually buying a real life car? Why does it make sense to have to pay more for a virtual car that in production times probably costs no more to model etc. than any other car? It's not like we are actually owing a Ferrari or RUF etc. etc? Doesn't make any sense at all to me?!

I'll try to find the website that stated that the more exotic cars would cost more to DL, and I'll post the link.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Kaz has hinted at online trading of special cars and releasing 'Limited Edition' cars too which may be limited to something akin to their rarity in real life.

If that happens, I'm sure we'll end up with a price war on our hands, hehe. 1000 Porsche 959's to the highest bidders for DLC?

LOL an online auction, sounds good. maybe an online junk yard where people can sell their write off cars for a few credits, then whoever buys it can do it back up again.

 

[Biggles]

This discussion goes on & on, mostly talking about the price of CARS. My problem with GT5P is not the lack of cars - I think there are more than enough to keep me interested for many months. My problem is the lack of TRACKS. Compared to all the other relevant games out there (Forza 2, F1:CE, GRID, Ferrari Challenge etc.) GT5P does not have enough tracks (& a number of the ones it does have aren't that great to race on IMO). Even given the lower price of Prologue, this remains true.

I think it was fair enough to put out Prologue at the time with a limited track selection, but I believe we are owed a couple more good tracks (or just one - Nurburgring ) while we are waiting for the full game, & I don't think we should be obliged to pay for them. The loyal Gran Turismo fan-base will have paid for Prologue & will pay again for the full GT5 - I don't think we should have to pay extra to get interim content for Prologue - it's not so much the money, it's the principle: PD should respect & reward their loyal customers, rather than nickle-&-diming them.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

This discussion goes on & on, mostly talking about the price of CARS. My problem with GT5P is not the lack of cars - I think there are more than enough to keep me interested for many months. My problem is the lack of TRACKS. Compared to all the other relevant games out there (Forza 2, F1:CE, GRID, Ferrari Challenge etc.) GT5P does not have enough tracks (& a number of the ones it does have aren't that great to race on IMO). Even given the lower price of Prologue, this remains true.

I think it was fair enough to put out Prologue at the time with a limited track selection, but I believe we are owed a couple more good tracks (or just one - Nurburgring ) while we are waiting for the full game, & I don't think we should be obliged to pay for them. The loyal Gran Turismo fan-base will have paid for Prologue & will pay again for the full GT5 - I don't think we should have to pay extra to get interim content for Prologue - it's not so much the money, it's the principle: PD should respect & reward their loyal customers, rather than nickle-&-diming them.

Agreed, Nurburgring is coming fairly soon (favorite track) I believe it will be free in an update.

 

[BonzoHarry]

Well I think we got enough tracks, we just didn't get the right tracks. How many real tracks do we have? 1 really, suzuka. HSR is boring as hell, daytona oval...yea right, daytona road is almost as bad as an oval, fuji...not really, london is sort of but it's a slow speed, no passing course. They needed to give us Suzuka, Apricott Hill (I believe was the name), maybe La Sarthe instead of daytona Road, similar concept but MUCH better layout, and a few more of those "original" tracks from GT4 like el capitan or however it was spelled.

and I think having limited production cars that are tradable online is a great idea. The problem is people will probably be willing to pay real money for them. Since game credits are worthless once you have all the cars they need to do something to make game credits valuable. This way people will actually be willing to accept them instead of paypal.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Well I think we got enough tracks, we just didn't get the right tracks. How many real tracks do we have? 1 really, suzuka. HSR is boring as hell, daytona oval...yea right, daytona road is almost as bad as an oval, fuji...not really, london is sort of but it's a slow speed, no passing course. They needed to give us Suzuka, Apricott Hill (I believe was the name), maybe La Sarthe instead of daytona Road, similar concept but MUCH better layout, and a few more of those "original" tracks from GT4 like el capitan or however it was spelled.

and I think having limited production cars that are tradable online is a great idea. The problem is people will probably be willing to pay real money for them. Since game credits are worthless once you have all the cars they need to do something to make game credits valuable. This way people will actually be willing to accept them instead of paypal.

A favourite track of mine was Smokey Mountain from GT3, great track - half tarmac and half gravel. Le Sarth is a great track also. Deep forest was a good track from GT3. Be nice to have those back.

 

[homeforsummer]

It's not like we are actually buying a real life car? Why does it make sense to have to pay more for a virtual car that in production times probably costs no more to model etc. than any other car? It's not like we are actually owing a Ferrari or RUF etc. etc? Doesn't make any sense at all to me?!

Agreed. I think we're losing distinction here also between buying a car with real physical money and buying a car in game.

You'll likely have to pay a nominal sum to download particular cars - you'll then likely have to "buy them" with your virtual credits in the virtual dealerships to actually be able to use them. Paying in real life just gives you the opportunity to buy them, not a car in your garage straight away.

 

[MustangSVT]

Agreed. I think we're losing distinction here also between buying a car with real physical money and buying a car in game.

You'll likely have to pay a nominal sum to download particular cars - you'll then likely have to "buy them" with your virtual credits in the virtual dealerships to actually be able to use them. Paying in real life just gives you the opportunity to buy them, not a car in your garage straight away.

I think he meant that for example buying the license of a Ferrari to model in-game is more expensive than buying the license for a Toyota. And hiring a Ferrari for a couple days to get data is also probably more expensive.

But yes I do agree it wouldn't really go well, as Forza 2 doesn't do it, so why would Gran Turismo. There's some packs in Forza 2 that have F50 GT, FXX, and some that have like a 2006 Civic, and they're all the same price.