Sorry T.O. I probably helped start the GT5 vs Forza talk when I mentioned driving on ice. I'm going to be done talking about how cars handle. There is no way to reach a middle ground. I say it's easy to get a car out of shape and could provide videos if I wanted, and others can say it's nearly impossible to get the same car out of shape and show videos of that as well. I chalk it up to preferance and style. I will remember it all though when I hit the track this Saturday. Last race of the season, and I should do well enough to make the invitational on Sunday.