DRIVE THIS CAR!!! Random Car Challenge

[Kreepnslayer]

What did you find out?

Well my lap times in Forza 3 were longer by quite a lot, around 30 seconds but I felt like I was very much in control of the car.
My lap times in GT5 were considerably faster but I felt nearly out of control and my lap was really sloppy.

It was an interesting comparison.

All were done using my Fanatec Turbo S Clubsport setup with no assists (not even ABS). I used the clutch in Forza but not in GT5 because it's completely stupid.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Well my lap times in Forza 3 were longer by quite a lot, around 30 seconds but I felt like I was very much in control of the car.
My lap times in GT5 were considerably faster but I felt nearly out of control and my lap was really sloppy.

It was an interesting comparison.

All were done using my Fanatec Turbo S Clubsport setup with no assists (not even ABS). I used the clutch in Forza but not in GT5 because it's completely stupid.

I noticed this too without a direct comparison between cars in both games. The way I drove in Forza would never ever be possible in real life without sliding all over the place and most likely going into the wall. The two Nurburgring challenge times I posted, I was going full throttle through some of the difficult sections with neutral handling, it just kept on giving. I think it is due to the suspension modelling. It is very easy to go full throttle in cars around 300bhp without any oversteer. Kerbs are the only danger in this game as you can't use them much without losing a lot of lap time. The way this game makes you drive supercars is the same with low powered cars in other games and also for real life. The cars have too much traction and also too easy to control but that is mainly down to the driving aid.

The Nurburgring lap times are longer, might be because of the inaccuracy or length because the lap times should have been much shorter the way I was driving in comparison to real life. Might try and do a video comparison between my Carrera GT lap and real and see if that shows the differences as to why the times are similar but not look similar when driving it. They should look close to identical throughout the video if it is accurate. Could be braking or cornering speed or track differences giving slow lap times.

 

[zr1chris]

Ok we'll run the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V B-494 on Nurb GP track and also on Camino Viejo de Montserrat Circuit Reverse

"Full circuit" reverse, right?

 

[t.o.]

"Full circuit" reverse, right?

yep

 

[zr1chris]

Cool,

Love the car. Plenty of power. Camino took a few laps to get used to though. I'm not sure if i'm taking all of the corners in the proper gear. Turn 1 i'm taking in 2nd and that right hand turn at the bottom of the hill (sorry not sure what # turn) im also taking in 2nd.

 

[Kreepnslayer]

I noticed this too without a direct comparison between cars in both games. The way I drove in Forza would never ever be possible in real life without sliding all over the place and most likely going into the wall. The two Nurburgring challenge times I posted, I was going full throttle through some of the difficult sections with neutral handling, it just kept on giving. I think it is due to the suspension modelling. It is very easy to go full throttle in cars around 300bhp without any oversteer. Kerbs are the only danger in this game as you can't use them much without losing a lot of lap time. The way this game makes you drive supercars is the same with low powered cars in other games and also for real life. The cars have too much traction and also too easy to control but that is mainly down to the driving aid.

The Nurburgring lap times are longer, might be because of the inaccuracy or length because the lap times should have been much shorter the way I was driving in comparison to real life. Might try and do a video comparison between my Carrera GT lap and real and see if that shows the differences as to why the times are similar but not look similar when driving it. They should look close to identical throughout the video if it is accurate. Could be braking or cornering speed or track differences giving slow lap times.

I appreciate your feedback but I humbly disagree with some of your points.
My own real world experience with several of the exact cars that I've owned in both real life and in the game leads me to believe that while neither game has it right, Forza isn't as far off as people like to think.

In my experience a 300 HP car will easily oversteer in Forza. At least as easily as real life.

I think what Forza is missing that GT has is instability under high speed braking. I find it fun to control but far too pronounced in GT. And again, completely lacking in Forza.

Anyway, those are my quick opinions. And really, it doesn't matter. We obviously are both enjoying the challenges that T.O has put together so I'll drop it and stick to the topic.
Happy racing!!

 

[JJ72]

In the last challenge I tried intentionally going ON/OFF with the throttle and in most of the turns it hardly unsettles the car, and that's with 400hp on the tap, so the traction level is really high, for a car that runs on all season tires that is not ridiculously wide.

 

[Kreepnslayer]

In the last challenge I tried intentionally going ON/OFF with the throttle and in most of the turns it hardly unsettles the car, and that's with 400hp on the tap, so the traction level is really high, for a car that runs on all season tires that is not ridiculously wide.

Is that in the Cadillac?

 

[RJS]

Nice way to make us busy until FM4 👍

Ok we'll run the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V B-494 on Nurb GP track and also on Camino Viejo de Montserrat Circuit Reverse

I'll give it a try tomorrow, and I'll post the results

 

[JJ72]

Is that in the Cadillac?

The M3.

and oh **** the power converter on my wheel has died :/ gonna try to pick up another one today.

 

[t.o.]

Nice way to make us busy until FM4 👍

Just doing my part to keep our minds off the few weeks we have left and make the time go by just a little bit quicker. Also a nice way to give FM3 a great sendoff as we go into FM4. I can say without question the last two years were great and if I could only play one game FM3 would have been it hands down. Not NBA 2K , not COD, DEFINITELY NOT Madden. This would have been the one game by a landslide that I would have picked. I guess I should have saved this speech on the last day. I'll do something special, as best I can , for that.

OP updated

 

[Kreepnslayer]

The M3.

and oh **** the power converter on my wheel has died :/ gonna try to pick up another one today.

So you're saying you couldn't get the M3 to unsettle or power oversteer in the corners? That's amazing right there.
My experience with the M3 is about the opposite. I shouldn't even think about mashing the gas because it'll oversteer.

I find it cool that different people have completely different results from the same car. For example, people I have raced with before, really fast people, swear you can't drive any of the R1 prototype cars fast without using assists. Me, I have no problems at all with it. Just be smooth and precise.
Different strokes for different folks.

Dude, sucks about your power converter!! Is it a Fanatec?? I've wondered several times if they use the same converter as some laptops. Never looked into it though.
I hope you get it fixed soon. FM4 will be out soon as well as the big update to GT5!!

 

[JJ72]

nah it's MS wheel.

I got a replacement and it seems it's the wheel itself dying.....it works with batteries (without no forcefeedback though) but doesn't through the converter.....it sucks big time........

no exactly in the state to afford a Fanatec with the shipping fee now.

 

[t.o.]

nah it's MS wheel.

I got a replacement and it seems it's the wheel itself dying.....it works with batteries (without no forcefeedback though) but doesn't through the converter.....it sucks big time........

no exactly in the state to afford a Fanatec with the shipping fee now.

You should make sure you don't have one of the self-destruct recall wheels. The ones that M$ were replacing.

 

[RJS]

Done a few laps in Camino Viejo Full reverse, and this was the result

I use a controller with no assists and manual with clutch

 

[JJ72]

well nothing I can do about it now.....gonna find 20 people to group order from Fanatec so they will ship to Hong Kong....blah.

 

[Kreepnslayer]

You should make sure you don't have one of the self-destruct recall wheels. The ones that M$ were replacing.

Ditton that. My original MS wheel went up in smoke, literally.
It jerked hard to the left and right once while racing then all force feedback went out. About three minutes later smoke just erupted out of the casing. It was crazy.
I called MS support and they sent me a replacement pronto.

 

[zr1chris]

Good lap RJS. 👍

 

[t.o.]

OP Updated

 

[RJS]

Good lap RJS. 👍

Thanks

I think I can reach 1.09.1 or .2
I'm going to run a few more laps, and I'll post here if a make any improvements


EDIT: Even better, I've done 1.08.954

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I appreciate your feedback but I humbly disagree with some of your points.
My own real world experience with several of the exact cars that I've owned in both real life and in the game leads me to believe that while neither game has it right, Forza isn't as far off as people like to think.

In my experience a 300 HP car will easily oversteer in Forza. At least as easily as real life.

I think what Forza is missing that GT has is instability under high speed braking. I find it fun to control but far too pronounced in GT. And again, completely lacking in Forza.

Anyway, those are my quick opinions. And really, it doesn't matter. We obviously are both enjoying the challenges that T.O has put together so I'll drop it and stick to the topic.
Happy racing!!

Fair enough but that is my experience in Forza, that is probably why I'm so far the fastest on every track and car combo so far due to knowing how forgiving the cars are to drive. JJ72 also so far is a really close 2nd and he also thinks the traction is very high. I found this out in the first 15 minutes of playing the game (I usually test the limit of physics when I first get any sim game). I think only the R class cars can break traction when going straight to full throttle quickly. We should do an event with one of them to see how fast everyone is on them as I think they are the only ones that require progessive throttle for me anyway.

GT5 is quite stable generally for me, but you need progession in throttle which I find very absent in most road cars in Forza which surprised me. I think people find different experiences is due to people positioning a car differently for a corner. Kerbs and grass is a lot more forgiving in GT5 than Forza 3 I found for lap time, somewhere in between them would be better.


Anyway will give the Cadillac a go tomorrow, should be fun trying to learn another new track for me.

 

[t.o.]

Less Yappin' , More Lappin' lol

We'll have some R level cars soon in the event. I've got a few in mind. Ali when are you getting a wheel? Or are you getting one. I find most games to be completely different when going from controller to wheel.

 

[Kreepnslayer]

Less Yappin' , More Lappin' lol

We'll have some R level cars soon in the event. I've got a few in mind. Ali when are you getting a wheel? Or are you getting one. I find most games to be completely different when going from controller to wheel.

Challenge accepted!!!
Lol

So far I've only done 1 lap that I've recorded. In that Firebird on the ring. I've done only 1 lap, and that was in a race against four other dudes and three AI. It took me a while to get out front.

I'm gonna see if I can get that Firebird to under 9 minutes from a standing start.

 

[t.o.]

Challenge accepted!!!
Lol

So far I've only done 1 lap that I've recorded. In that Firebird on the ring. I've done only 1 lap, and that was in a race against four other dudes and three AI. It took me a while to get out front.

I'm gonna see if I can get that Firebird to under 9 minutes from a standing start.

You should try to see from a flying start. I know it's long as hell but still.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Less Yappin' , More Lappin' lol

We'll have some R level cars soon in the event. I've got a few in mind. Ali when are you getting a wheel? Or are you getting one. I find most games to be completely different when going from controller to wheel.

It all depends on if there is a good deal on the GT2, otherwise I will probably just get a G27 or GT3RS V2 as I will mainly be driving on PC sims such as rFactor 2 when it comes out and also PS3 is my primary platform as I don't plan on paying online unless it is forced upon me.

I want a 360 compatible wheel though so will try my best to get one but it might be out of my price range and there are really good G27 offers going round, cheaper than the ClubSport pedals for the whole wheel set. I think I will most likely end up getting a G27 due to how cheap it is getting to buy but will definately get a high end 360 compatible wheel when I'm no longer a student and also get a rig. If there is local classified bargain soon for a Fanatec GT2, I will definately pick one up so will keep a look out for one. I plan to get a new wheel before February 2012, my DFGT is good enough but the noise it makes is starting to annoy me and I want to see if better pedals improve my lap time.

I find games quite different between a pad and whee too. I'm normally at least a second or two slower with a pad as I don't have as good accuracy with them.

Challenge accepted!!!
Lol

So far I've only done 1 lap that I've recorded. In that Firebird on the ring. I've done only 1 lap, and that was in a race against four other dudes and three AI. It took me a while to get out front.

I'm gonna see if I can get that Firebird to under 9 minutes from a standing start.

I can't remember how much time you gain from a flying start so if it is 10 seconds, then under 9 minutes should be possible. I'm going to only bother with flying starts unless if the Forza 4 demo has Top Gear track with a standing start.

 

[t.o.]

I find games quite different between a pad and whee too. I'm normally at least a second or two slower with a pad as I don't have as good accuracy with them.

Well only going by the FM3 and GT5 I've played with friend I've found pad users have a considerable advantage in both.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Well only going by the FM3 and GT5 I've played with friend I've found pad users have a considerable advantage in both.

Pad users in GT5 only have an advantage for drifting I would say, for circuit racing, wheel is definately the fastest and easiest way. I admire how the top pad players can get close to the top wheel times.

I don't know about Forza but pad might be quicker than wheel but I can't say from personal experience. It seems quite equal so far between me and JJ72. His video he posted is more or less how I'm driving and shifting and lap time is very close.

 

[t.o.]

OP updated

Just when I thought I had zr1chris as I finished up some laps I saw on the leaderboard "I GOT HIM" and then I come to the thread and see his new lap time. DAMMIT!!! I don't see where I can shave a second anywhere. Oh well back to the drawingboard. lol

I know one thing watching the replays is fantastic as you can really whip around the track and it looks great. Looks like a chase scene in a movie.

 

[zr1chris]

Thanks

I think I can reach 1.09.1 or .2
I'm going to run a few more laps, and I'll post here if a make any improvements


EDIT: Even better, I've done 1.08.954

Wow. Great lap! I had run about 10 laps with the 5th or 6th being my quickest and could never seem to match it the next few. I will definitely have to give this another go tonight.

You should try to see from a flying start. I know it's long as hell but still.

He can just turn around at the start and go to the beginning of the straight. That will still save him about 8 minutes.

Well only going by the FM3 and GT5 I've played with friend I've found pad users have a considerable advantage in both.

I can say for certain that GT5 is quicker with a wheel (if most assists are off) in most cases. FM3 i'm not totally sure what's quicker. I was quicker when I got used to the wheel but it's not as much of a difference. Allot depends on the person playing. Some are just not as good with a wheel and are more used to the controller no matter what the game or circumstances are.

OP updated

Just when I thought I had zr1chris as I finished up some laps I saw on the leaderboard "I GOT HIM" and then I come to the thread and see his new lap time. DAMMIT!!! I don't see where I can shave a second anywhere. Oh well back to the drawingboard. lol

👍

 

[t.o.]

I'm creeping ever closer to your time chris. Got a 1:09:206. Found two spots that I can get quicker on, now to optimize them and do the rest of the track correctly and I might get the sub 1:09:00 time.

OP updated