- 11,652

- Intercourse, PA
- Carbonox
Petty? Look who's talking, with all the petty insults and comeback attempts.What a silly comment. if the opportunity presents itself then you're going take it. people being soft and petty if you ask me.
Petty? Look who's talking, with all the petty insults and comeback attempts.What a silly comment. if the opportunity presents itself then you're going take it. people being soft and petty if you ask me.
Petty? Look who's talking, with all the petty insults and comeback attempts.
Well your soft then.
Knock knock.What a silly comment. if the opportunity presents itself then you're going take it. people being soft and petty if you ask me.
i dont see a problem with dive bombing. it shows the drivers willing to push and risk his race. that to me is a true hard racer. if you know what i mean.
if you use your common sense then it can work. see a gap go for it. if you hit someone, least then you know not to be silly and try it again in that way. just find a way to do it safely and it can be done.
Im sure many real hard racers would not try and risk themselves, others and there cars in real life.But GT6 isn't real life is it. I'm a respectful clean racer on GT6 but I'm hard racer at the same time. if you are not willing to take a chance on a gap then your never going to get any were.
It's called taking a chance, like any racing driver will tell you.
Well your soft then.
What a silly comment. if the opportunity presents itself then you're going take it. people being soft and petty if you ask me.
Have you seen the view F1 drivers get? They can't see much looking sideways because of the head protection of the cockpit. They can't see much past their side mirrors, and with a helmet on you literally do have tunnel vision.
I agree you haven't got a great view in sims, but there are quite a few race cars that, while wearing a helmet, you've got even poorer vision. Also a lot of racing games have a warning indicator when someone is close by, so you can see them in your mirror and then they disappear and an indicator appears on your side, you're not exactly blind.
The S.N.A.I.L. OLR
07: Corner Rights:
A:
When approaching the turn/apex of turn, the car which "holds" the inner side of turn has entrance-advantage and other driver(s) must refrain from endangering him by his actions.
B:
You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corners turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the drivers position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in.
C:
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to sufficient side room. The ahead driver must also leave sufficient side room for the behind driver. This means that each driver has a right to their respective "line", or side of the track, right up to the exit point. Neither driver should squeeze the other toward the inside or outside of the corner during the apex or exit.
D:
The turn in point is the point at which the leading car begins their turn into the cornerthis may vary from the point at which you turn into the corner.
E:
If an ahead driver has clearly made an error to warrant a passing move, a behind driver may attack their position, with due caution and care, regardless of whether there was any pre-existing overlap. However, the overtaking driver must still avoid contact. Small errors by the ahead driver may not necessarily justify a passing move. The ahead driver getting a bit out of shape at times doesnt give you an automatic right to force a pass. You still have to pass safely and without undue contact.
F:
Drivers are expected to set buttons up for side views as "I didn't see you" is not an excuse if you collide with another driver when racing.
The Good Racecraft Guide
Defending & Attacking
An experienced racer will take whatever line he feels necessary into any given corner in order to defend & maintain his place, he is entitled to do so as he has track position over the pursuing driver, remember that the fastest line is not always the winning one. It is the other chaps job to force him into an error, whilst still driving cleanly of course, or wait for one to occur naturally & then take advantage of it, albeit in the proper fashion. An inexperienced racer will, in his endless optimism, tend to stuff it up the inside at every unavailable opportunity when trying to pass, imagining he is driving well but making far too much contact & causing many unnecessary incidents. Also, some lacking in good racecraft tend to drive right up to & into the driver in front, as they do not have the common sense to adjust their throttle & braking to account for following in the slipstream of another. You will notice that drivers who have good racecraft make very little contact when following & passing others on track.
The following is from another forum -ukgpl.com. Same message, with pictures.
Corner Rights
If you watch the odd few GPL drivers in action you might think the rule for corner rights goes something like, " Whatever piece of ground I can barge my way into I have the right to ". Well, ... not so. There is actually an etiquette for corner rights. It's not just for GPL, or racing sims, but is basically the same for every level of real-world motor racing - from Formula Ford to Formula 1 and everything in between. " What ! ", you say. " You mean I don't have the right to throw my car into any gap I see ? ". Actually no, you don't - and if you raced in any real-world competition the way you may race in GPL, instead of being hailed as a motor racing genius you may find yourself banned from even the lowest levels of the sport. Some of the everyday things you see in GPL simply aren't tolerated where real cars are damaged, real money is the cost of repair, and real lives are at risk.
In brief, the concept is, you must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before a corner's turn-in point to have the right for room to be left for you by the ahead driver. Substantial overlap means at least that the front of your car is up to say the driver's position in the ahead car - and that's at the very least. You probably should have more in many circumstances. The ahead driver has ever right to be fully committed to the racing line of his choice without any interference if there was no overlap before he turned in.
If sufficient overlap is established before the turn-in point, then the behind driver has the right to room. The ahead driver can still battle for the place of course but must do so from a wider-out position, leaving room for the behind driver.
You can see here why overlap established after the turn-in point isn't really valid and therefore isn't honored in car racing rules. Its actually false overlap that's created by the turning movements of the cars. Its not due to one being faster than the other or one out-braking the other. In positions 1, 2, and 3, below, you can see that the Lotus has no overlap at all if you consider the straight ahead direction - shown by the blue lines. But if you take a perpendicular from the attitude of the cars, shown by the red lines, there is some overlap at position 2 and substantial overlap at position 3. This overlap is entirely false of course as the Lotus here hasn't actually out-braked or out-sped the Eagle by any amount what-so-ever - as I hope you can see form this diagram. Unfortunately many drivers think that if they do this they are some kind of out-braking genius, when in fact they are not out-preforming the other driver at all. Its a geometric illusion that has nothing to do with a driver's ability or performance. If they could really out-brake the other, they would have made some overlap before the turn-in point, not after it.
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1 Before the turn-in point there's no overlap - therefore the Lotus has no right to room or to interfere with the Eagle's normal racing line in any way.
2 But, as often happens, the Lotus sees this empty zone along the inside and thinks they can zoom up into it, probably believing this to be the move of a talented racing genius.
3 Its possible to get apparent overlap after the turn-in point. The point is you shouldn't.
4 The Lotus may actually achieve their objective, forcing the Eagle out wide, who may actually not press the issue for the sake of not crashing - if they can.
5 But, if the Eagle doesn't back away, and holds their line, as they're entitled to do, this is what happens as often as not.
The issue is that the Eagle has the right to be fully committed to the racing line. In this case, the entire inside area ought to have been a no-go zone for the Lotus, who should have tucked in behind and followed the Eagle around. Of course, late braking barge drivers often end up in the hay bails, hopefully without taking you with them.
Knock knock.
Your opinion can be an insult.hows the hell is that being insulting? if i was saying stuff like "you're stupid and you dont have a clue what you are talking about you fool" then yes then id be insulting but not saying anything like that. but saying people are soft and petty. that's my opinion not being insulting. god
It's not.
I can tell you that moves like that are generally not condoned online, even if they are pulled off cleanly. If you tried that move online, the 'Ericsson' would turn into you as he'd have no way of seeing you coming.
Do you think this overtake is acceptable?
It would be in real life, but in GTP online racing, you require overlap before the braking zone prior to trying a move down the inside. Otherwise, there would be contact on most moves and driving standards would quickly deteriorate.
There's no interpretation in the GTP OLR. Either you have overlap when the lead car begins to turn in or you don't. If the race was run under the OLR then the pass was not legal by definition, since there was no overlap at all by the turn in point of the corner - picture attached.Honestly I'd err on the side of this being just acceptable. He/she was early on the brakes and as far as I can tell had time to see you and alter his/her line- though I'd need to see his/her point of view to be sure. That corner is a bit of a difficult one though, since the racing line is so wide. At any other corner it would not be acceptable, but because of the nature of the corner it just about is (as far as I can tell).
The Verstappen overtake on Ericsson is a divebomb.
Funniest thing that ever happened to me online.
There's no interpretation in the GTP OLR. Either you have overlap when the lead car begins to turn in or you don't. If the race was run under the OLR then the pass was not legal by definition, since there was no overlap at all by the turn in point of the corner - picture attached.
If the lead car braked early (which it didn't if the brake lights are an indication) it's still irrelevant. Once there is no overlap the lead car has the right to the driving line of their choice, and the following car has to adapt. The following car can take advantage of the early braking, if any, and go around the outside if it's possible to do so or even slip inside with an over/under move entering the second corner.
So first, you took a comment in which I was responding to someone else, and I explained in great detail what I consider a divebomb to be, and what the actual FIA rules on such overtaking situations are, and you said this:*snip*
According to the FIA sporting regulations, if the outside driver has half a car length lead when turning in, they have a right to stay alongside the inside car. If they are side by side, and the outside car is not leading, then the inside car does NOT have to provide racing room and is allowed to use the entire track width on exit. It is up to the outside car to ensure contact is not made, which is why you'll see real racers yield in these circumstances, because they'd get a penalty if there was contact.
The car making a move on the inside has to have the front of their car at least half way alongside the car on the outside to be allowed racing room. If they are only front wheel to rear wheel it is up to them to avoid contact, and they have no claim to the racing line, so they have to yield if the outside driver chooses to cut in to the apex. A good example would be Rosberg v Hamilton at Spa last year, Rosberg didn't yield in time before hamilton's rear tyre went over his FWEP, so that was Rosberg's fault.*snip*
Despite the fact that the FIA sanctions a lot of different motorsports, and not just F1, and the fact that most other governing bodies in the world follow largely the same rules as the FIA.Interesting that you quote a single racing organization and use them to define the rules of all racing.
Is there anything different about (open-wheel) racers that might make them use slightly different rules than cars with covered wheels?
You realise the FIA is the world's governing body of motorsport, not just Formula 1. FYI CAMS in Australia follow the same regulations regarding overtaking.
Again, ignoring what I actually said, and coming up with what you thought I meant in your own head and arguing with that. So again, I kindly reminded you of what I actually said, and stated that I didn't know of a series that didn't follow those rules on overtaking, which gave you something to actually respond to:So are you saying that every racing series in the world follow "FIA rules", or just trying to give that impression?
I'm just curious, after watching an F1 race and a BTCC race, maybe you can explain to me how they're following the same rule set?
I was responding to your post saying that the FIA rules only applied to open wheel racing, which is untrue. I never said every series in the world is sanctioned by the FIA, but if you look at the rules on overtaking in all top motorsport series, they are largely the same. In the instance of overtaking under brakes, I don't know of a series that doesn't follow the rules I stated earlier.
If I'm not mistaken, FIA holds some of the most ***-up racing in the world, races where people intentionally let other people win, and if they don't, they can get fired. (teammates)
Pardon me, I couldn't care less what that ridiculous organization does. I like real racing.
I'm not going to bother trying to explain when and where team orders is useful in motorsport, and it doesn't just exist in FIA sanctioned series' so I guess you're just trolling now. I'd love to know what you think "real racing" is when you don't consider F1, WEC, F3, Fe, Karting World Championship, ETCC, WTCC, Historic F1 and Sports Cars, WRC, WRX, and about 20 other series "real racing"...
Anyway this is going around and around in circles and I think we've all had our say.
Wow, now I'm tolling?
I'm sorry this didn't go the (waaaa) way you wanted (sniff sniff) I'll leave you win now. 👍
Lol what do you call that then? nvm, just conveniently ignore everything and go for the immature, yet poor, attempt at a comeback. Good job 👍
You just said you don't want to talk about it, and accused me of trolling because you didn't like what I said.
No, no response for you. Go watch fixed races. 👍
Yes, literally (note literally) you have tunnel vision with a helmet but even in a F1 car you still have movement of your head and eyes and some peripheral view. The TV screen does not move, its set to your central view.
There is a lot of extra features in a sim to help, but same as changing the view not everyone is going to use them so for most people not allowing dive bombing keeps it clean and fun. Its worked well so far in the races i've joined.
Yes, you don't like what I said, now I could argue it out with you, but I already did with Tornado, funny thing is, enough of you guys want to complain about off-topic, but banter about it for 3 pages, and eventually report me, for continuing. Because I'll be the guy that's always involved, right?*snip*
All forms huh?It isn't dirty driving it's called racing, which is why it's allowed in ALL forms of real motorsport.
Nobody ever argued that... did they?If you get into the turn in point on the inside of the other driver it's up to them to alter their line to avoid contact.
What is common, dive bombing? The context you typed sure is dive bombing. Dive bombing is common? I disagree strongly.This is common in all forms of motorsport, and leaving the inside line open for it is the fault of the defending driver. If there is a driver close behind you, you should alter your line to cover the inside.
Wow, we agree on something!You don't just stay on the racing line out wide and cut in towards the apex when a car is attempting an overtake - THAT is dirty driving. If you leave the door open, don't cry when someone takes up the invitation.
Right, which is "allowed in ALL forms of motorsport", and "Common in all forms of motorsport" right?If the attacking driver can't make the corner because of how big a dive they've made, and it results in either contact with the other car, or if the other car isn't there they can't stop their car before the track limits and run off track or into the barrier, then it's diveboming,
Nobody ever said that...(not that I sawnot if they simply put their car up the inside in the braking zone.
Who? Who claimed that? I might have missed something, I didn't ever see anyone claim that, not ever.Some people try to claim that any late move up the inside is dive bombing, and that is plain wrong.
And it's allowed and common in ALL forms of motorsport?The only way a divebomb works is when the defending car is used as a barrier to help slow the dive bomber down so he/she can make the corner.
Yes, you don't like what I said, now I could argue it out with you, but I already did with Tornado, funny thing is, enough of you guys want to complain about off-topic, but banter about it for 3 pages, and eventually report me, for continuing. Because I'll be the guy that's always involved, right?
I don't like FIA, and I don't agree with blindly following their rules for GT, as you did imply, if not state directly. I couldn't care less if that pisses you off.
No, I don't know 🤬 about F1 or anything involved, nor do I care, it's great that you love them, and you can follow their guidelines and do whatever you please in that regard, but you can't make me agree with you.
Here's some fun:
All forms huh?
Nobody ever argued that... did they?
What is common, dive bombing? The context you typed sure is dive bombing. Dive bombing is common? I disagree strongly.
Wow, we agree on something!
Right, which is "allowed in ALL forms of motorsport", and "Common in all forms of motorsport" right?
Nobody ever said that...(not that I saw)
Who? Who claimed that? I might have missed something, I didn't ever see anyone claim that, not ever.
And it's allowed and common in ALL forms of motorsport?
Call me skeptical![]()
Why bother having an argument over it then?but you can't make me agree with you.
Edit* On the subject of sim racing having a limited view compared with real racing, that's not exactly true. In sim racing, even in bumper cam you still can have a large mirror, and you don't have a helmet on giving you a letterbox view of the track. You have a worse view than someone driving a road car on the road, but F1 drivers have an extremely limited view around them, and they can still abide by the rules. You just need situational awareness.