Driving techniques - Heel Toe Downshift

  • Thread starter Slick Rick
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I've never driven a stick before.
Eeek! We must rectify this immediately!

By the way, once you do start driving a stick, don’t bother with all this stuff we’re talking about – you want to spend as much time as you can learning the basics of operating a manual. I didn’t start fiddling with rev matching and heel-and-toeing until I had been driving for over a year.
 
That's right Sage. It took me a while to get comfortable experimenting with techniques--at least 6 months. By the time I tried learning to rev-match I was fluent in the basics of driving a manual. Anyone learning should take it slow and steady. And don't worry about stalling, because everyone does it. I just did it the other day, and that was in thw snow!
 
Eeek! We must rectify this immediately!

By the way, once you do start driving a stick, don’t bother with all this stuff we’re talking about – you want to spend as much time as you can learning the basics of operating a manual. I didn’t start fiddling with rev matching and heel-and-toeing until I had been driving for over a year.

Rev-matching, IMHO, is a basic of operating stick. You don't need to be exact, but if you don't try for the ballpark as soon as you get comfortable with how to shift, you're going to a have some rough rides and eventually a worn-out clutch. That's just me, though. I hated my car lurching and stalling everywhere, so I tried to get shifting well as soon as possible. I'd say it was 3-4 moths before I got it down well enough to not raise complaints/criticism from my passengers, so it isn't a quick process.

I haven't tried the heel-toe method, but my car is not exactly a powerhouse, so racing techniques wouldn't do much for me.

And kennythebomb, I don't see anything wrong with your technique. I often do the same in those situations.
 
When I'm in first gear and going slow, I find I have to 'ride the clutch' in parking lots sometimes because otherwise the car lurches... when I'm behind someone going slow I find I have to do it otherwise I stall. Is that correct?
Yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do.

However, what you really want to do is learn how slow your car can go without stalling. Find an empty place you can dawdle around in, and from a standstill, engage first gear, and slowly release the clutch. Assuming your car doesn’t have 3 horsepower, your car should creep forward, going faster the more you release your clutch. When you’re fully off the clutch, try slowly pressing on the brake to see how slow you can get the car without the engine going all wobbly. This is especially important when dealing with traffic jams, because you want to ride out in gear as long as possible to avoid roasting your clutch.

When I slow down (red light) I tend to just pop it into neutral and then brake to a stop. When I see the cross-traffic stop, I hold down the clutch and put it into the first. A few seconds later when the light goes green I start off. Is that correct?
Yup! Don’t pop it into neutral too early though – you’ll waste gas (since the engine will have to use gas to keep from stalling). Again, learn how far you can go without making the engine angry – don’t downshift into first though when approaching a stop. As Duke has mentioned (maybe in another thread), usually any gear other than overdrive will be fine. For example, let’s say I’m coming off a highway onto a stoplight: I would downshift to fourth, then ride out fourth as long as possible before popping it into neutral.

When I slow down to make a turn, say from 4th gear to 2nd.. I typically slow down and let the car get down to 2,000 or 1,500 rpms and then I push in the clutch, select 2nd, hold it and release it slowly as I make my turn, and as I start to leave the turn (while I'm slowly letting off the clutch) I slowly give it more throttle. Now apparently I need to blip the throttle as I'm pushing in the clutch by doing heel-toe in order to match the revs. What I want to know is, how bad is my current method? If smoeone can reply in detail to me or pm I would be most appreciative 👍
Generally speaking, you don’t want to shift gears mid-corner (I think that’s what you’re doing, if I’m following correctly), especially if you’re not heel-and-toeing – upsetting the chassis mid-corner can be bad news if you’re going fast or there’s ice or something. I mean, you’re probably never going to have any troubles because of it, but it’s a habit that’s good to break.

Other than that, you’re fine. Most people who drive manuals don’t heel-and-toe or rev match. My parents both drive manuals, and they probably have no clue what those two terms mean. They’re just nice things to do to avoid upsetting the chassis and to eek out some more life for your clutch.
 
Eeek! We must rectify this immediately!

By the way, once you do start driving a stick, don’t bother with all this stuff we’re talking about – you want to spend as much time as you can learning the basics of operating a manual. I didn’t start fiddling with rev matching and heel-and-toeing until I had been driving for over a year.

Lol. Duh. I'm just asking questions for the hell of it. I have "driveway experience" with a manual transmission, but, like I said, I've never actually driven one.
 
I'm still of the mindset that the less work you do, the more you can concentrate on teh control of the car. If you do 3 downshifts for a single corner, that's a lot of cognative thought going into that before you even enter the corner.

I think it has a lot to do with preference, what your more comfortable with. For me, jumping from 4th to 2nd leaves a lot more room for error. Don't raise the rev's enough, and your going to throw a lot more weight forwards then if it was only a little off on a 4>3 downshift.

The extra work involved to downshift 4>3>2 is negligible in my opinion, it's so etched into my mind I don't need to put a whole bunch of thinking into it before a turn. If your at 4th gear speeds and you need to be in 2nd gear RPM range coming out of the turn, unless your car has F1-like brakes theres often enough braking distance to downshift twice.

Again, I'm sure professionals find it useful. But for everyday driving and even autocrossing it's useless.
It makes everyday driving so much smoother. When I'm just cruising around and I brake for a turn and downshift a small blip of the throttle and theres no sudden lunge forward, which is more comfortable for passengers (especially girls who don't understand why the car has 3 pedals to begin with) and braking more stable. Not to mention the wear your saving on drivetrain components when done correctly. When I start autocrossing in the spring i'll give heel toeing a try on the course, and see if it keeps my car more stable during braking or even lowers my time.
 
Yeah, you gotta do what you gotta do.

However, what you really want to do is learn how slow your car can go without stalling. Find an empty place you can dawdle around in, and from a standstill, engage first gear, and slowly release the clutch. Assuming your car doesn’t have 3 horsepower, your car should creep forward, going faster the more you release your clutch. When you’re fully off the clutch, try slowly pressing on the brake to see how slow you can get the car without the engine going all wobbly. This is especially important when dealing with traffic jams, because you want to ride out in gear as long as possible to avoid roasting your clutch.


Yup! Don’t pop it into neutral too early though – you’ll waste gas (since the engine will have to use gas to keep from stalling). Again, learn how far you can go without making the engine angry – don’t downshift into first though when approaching a stop. As Duke has mentioned (maybe in another thread), usually any gear other than overdrive will be fine. For example, let’s say I’m coming off a highway onto a stoplight: I would downshift to fourth, then ride out fourth as long as possible before popping it into neutral.


Generally speaking, you don’t want to shift gears mid-corner (I think that’s what you’re doing, if I’m following correctly), especially if you’re not heel-and-toeing – upsetting the chassis mid-corner can be bad news if you’re going fast or there’s ice or something. I mean, you’re probably never going to have any troubles because of it, but it’s a habit that’s good to break.

Other than that, you’re fine. Most people who drive manuals don’t heel-and-toe or rev match. My parents both drive manuals, and they probably have no clue what those two terms mean. They’re just nice things to do to avoid upsetting the chassis and to eek out some more life for your clutch.

Yeah I've been in plenty of situations where I'll be in stop-and-go highway traffic jams and I just kinda wait until I start to hear it puttering and then I'll either downshift or hold the clutch if I'm in first and still rolling.

The example of coming off the highway to a stoplight is exactly what I do a few times every day. I'm in fifth, I drop down to fourth by downshifting into fourth and slowly letting the clutch out after I've selected fourth, without touching the brake or the gas pedal. So what I do is let the car coast and then downshift into fourth how I just described. Then I pop it into neutral and brake normally. I don't understand how it is wasting gas though... surely coasting in neutral doesn't use any gas, but slowing down in fourth until the revs drop and then popping the gear into neutral wastes less? I don't understand that.

Okay, so I should do my braking and downshifting before I'm in the middle of the corner?

ALSO - I'm highly confused to wfooshee's description of double clutching. I didn't really follow that much and if you (or someone else) could explain that in absolute detail that would be great.

So, to reiterate. Rev matching when downshifting involves doing this:

I'm travelling in fourth and decide I want to downshift into third, I won't be stopping. I let off the gas and press in the clutch. As the clutch is pressed down, I put the car into neutral. As I'm doing this I blip the trottle slightly. I still have the clutch all the way down (hasn't moved) and I'm still in the motion of changing gears, now I keep pushing the lever and then I drop it into third, and finally release the clutch as I get back on the gas. Is that the timing of it all?

One more thing. I have a FWD Ford Probe GT, as I stated earlier. Earlier today I tried a standing still launch. While stationary, I put the car into first. I revved it up to at least 4, probably 5 grand. Then I let out the clutch faster than normal, about 1/2 a second total time. My car hopped not back and forth but seemingly up and down. The tires seemed to be chirping. Did I do something wrong or is that an alignment issue?
 
...I don't understand how it is wasting gas though... surely coasting in neutral doesn't use any gas, but slowing down in fourth until the revs drop and then popping the gear into neutral wastes less? I don't understand that....

If your rolling down hill off the gas and in gear, the momentum is actually what is keeping the engine spinning, the injectors aren't firing fuel, combustion isn't taking place. When your idling, the injectors are firing, and your using fuel.
 
If your rolling down hill off the gas and in gear, the momentum is actually what is keeping the engine spinning, the injectors aren't firing fuel, combustion isn't taking place. When your idling, the injectors are firing, and your using fuel.

Well this isn't a change in elevation but that's a moot point.

So just rolling on a level plane in gear but off the gas, it's not using any gas? That blows my mind. But if I pop it into neutral and let it coast to a stop, it's idling and thus I'm wasting gas? Holy...
 
ALSO - I'm highly confused to wfooshee's description of double clutching. I didn't really follow that much and if you (or someone else) could explain that in absolute detail that would be great.
Double-clutch, upshifting:
1. Put clutch in.
2. Shift into neutral.
3. Release clutch.
4. Let revs fall until they’ll match the next gear.
5. Put clutch in.
6. Shift into appropriate gear.
7. Release clutch.

Double-clutching for downshifting is the same, except on step #4, you would blip the throttle to bring the revs up to match the next gear.

I personally never double-clutch, because it’s a nuisance – rev matching and heel-and-toeing are just minor add-ons to what I’m already doing, but double-clutching is, relatively speaking, a rather involved process. Yes, it’s better for your tranny, but as long as you’re driving a syncromesh one, I wouldn’t worry about it. Duke has said he never double-clutches, and he put ridiculous miles on his Neon’s original tranny.

So, to reiterate. Rev matching when downshifting involves doing this:

I'm travelling in fourth and decide I want to downshift into third, I won't be stopping. I let off the gas and press in the clutch. As the clutch is pressed down, I put the car into neutral. As I'm doing this I blip the trottle slightly. I still have the clutch all the way down (hasn't moved) and I'm still in the motion of changing gears, now I keep pushing the lever and then I drop it into third, and finally release the clutch as I get back on the gas. Is that the timing of it all?
Yes, but don’t get hung up on the neutral part too much (as in, you don’t have to wait until you’re solidly into neutral before you blip the throttle – you can do it anytime the clutch is disengaged).

One more thing. I have a FWD Ford Probe GT, as I stated earlier. Earlier today I tried a standing still launch. While stationary, I put the car into first. I revved it up to at least 4, probably 5 grand. Then I let out the clutch faster than normal, about 1/2 a second total time. My car hopped not back and forth but seemingly up and down. The tires seemed to be chirping. Did I do something wrong or is that an alignment issue?
Well, that’s not exactly good for your clutch in the first place.

Your car might’ve felt like it was going up and down because there was probably a backwards load transfer, which would then cause your front springs to expand and push you up slightly. I don’t really know too much about that stuff though, so someone better-qualified should probably answer that.

So just rolling on a level plane in gear but off the gas, it's not using any gas? That blows my mind. But if I pop it into neutral and let it coast to a stop, it's idling and thus I'm wasting gas? Holy...
Yes. Though I’m not sure why that’s so amazing. ;) It’s very intuitive – if it’s in gear, the momentum of the car is turning the axle, thus turning the engine, so no gas needs to be supplied to the engine. When it’s rolling in neutral, the axle isn’t connect at all to the engine, so the engine needs to use a little bit of gas to keep itself moving (“idling” if you want to think of it that way) so that it doesn’t stall.
 
Double-clutch, upshifting:
1. Put clutch in.
2. Shift into neutral.
3. Release clutch.
4. Let revs fall until they’ll match the next gear.
5. Put clutch in.
6. Shift into appropriate gear.
7. Release clutch.

Double-clutching for downshifting is the same, except on step #4, you would blip the throttle to bring the revs up to match the next gear.

Yes, but don’t get hung up on the neutral part too much (as in, you don’t have to wait until you’re solidly into neutral before you blip the throttle – you can do it anytime the clutch is disengaged).

Well, that’s not exactly good for your clutch in the first place.

Your car might’ve felt like it was going up and down because there was probably a backwards load transfer, which would then cause your front springs to expand and push you up slightly. I don’t really know too much about that stuff though, so someone better-qualified should probably answer that.


Yes. Though I’m not sure why that’s so amazing. ;) It’s very intuitive – if it’s in gear, the momentum of the car is turning the axle, thus turning the engine, so no gas needs to be supplied to the engine. When it’s rolling in neutral, the axle isn’t connect at all to the engine, so the engine needs to use a little bit of gas to keep itself moving (“idling” if you want to think of it that way) so that it doesn’t stall.

Thanks for the quick response.

Double clutching makes a lot more sense now.

Yeah I'm usually very easy and gentle on my starts... typically I start off slower than most people driving their automatics. But once in a while I like to experiment and see what my car will do. All I know is that I'm not putting it through that much stress again. If I want to launch quickly, I'll let out the clutch a bit slower than what I did today...

It's amazing to me because I don't have a complete picture of what is going on behind the scenes, the why behind the action. All I know is I need to engage different gears for different speeds. Now I know I need to match those speeds so the spinning 'disks' or whatever the clutch is likened to won't wear so quickly.
 
When I slow down (red light) I tend to just pop it into neutral and then brake to a stop. When I see the cross-traffic stop, I hold down the clutch and put it into the first. A few seconds later when the light goes green I start off. Is that correct?
This one I can't agree with at all, but I do know its commonly taught (and then often un-taught during advanced driving courses). A car only goes into neutral when changing gear, immediately before you stop or when you are stationary (if the situation warrants it). Any time a car is in neutral the driver is not in full control of all the cars functions, principally the ability to accelerate if required.

For myself the car remains in gear as you slow (to a stop for a red in this example), with the clutch being depressed close to the point the car stops, putting the car in first or neutral when stopped. Now how close to the cars stopping point will depend on the car and the drivers familiarity with manual use. I would only put the car in neutral if the wait at the stop sign or lights appears to be a long one, for a short stop I would leave it in first, ready to pull away.

The logic behind this is that full control of the car remains with the driver for as much of the time that its moving as possible.



I haven't tried the heel-toe method, but my car is not exactly a powerhouse, so racing techniques wouldn't do much for me.
Heel and Toe has nothing to do with power, its just as suitable for lower powered vehicles, as its about maintaining control and balance over both the drive-train and the car itself. Done well it results in a much smoother ride in which downshifts are hardly felt by the passengers in normal road driving, and that the car is not unbalanced when driving on the track.



I'm travelling in fourth and decide I want to downshift into third, I won't be stopping. I let off the gas and press in the clutch. As the clutch is pressed down, I put the car into neutral. As I'm doing this I blip the trottle slightly. I still have the clutch all the way down (hasn't moved) and I'm still in the motion of changing gears, now I keep pushing the lever and then I drop it into third, and finally release the clutch as I get back on the gas. Is that the timing of it all?
Its seems ok, but assuming that you are trying to slow down here, the braking phase seems to be missing.

Ammended to add that, it would look like this.

I let off the gas and as the car slows I press in the clutch. As the clutch is pressed down, I put the car into neutral. As I'm doing this I blip the trottle slightly, while maintaining steady braking pressure. I still have the clutch all the way down (hasn't moved) and I'm still in the motion of changing gears, now I keep pushing the lever and then I drop it into third, and finally release the clutch as I continue to brake. I get back on the gas when the car is at the correct speed (and now gear) to take the corner, etc.

The gear-change should be done during the braking phase not separate to it.

Regards

Scaff
 
Try reading this: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm (and make sure you click on all the in-article links, because they’ll lead you to more informative articles).

HowStuffWorks is one of the greatest resources ever. 👍

Thanks. I recently looked up suspensions on that site when I was having some front end problems. I figured I should be as knowledgeable as I could before paying big bucks for a mechanic to fix it.

Those three questions presented in the beginning are exactly what I had in my head. I'm relieved that I can't accidentally hit reverse while on the highway. I was petrified of that. Anyway, I know for a fact I can't go into first either. Not that I have tried, it's just that the synchros won't let me engage first gear when slowing down until I'm nearly creeping. I'm glad I now know why I can't pop it into neutral without pressing the clutch first.. that had me confused until I read the article.

This one I can't agree with at all, but I do know its commonly taught (and then often un-taught during advanced driving courses). A car only goes into neutral when changing gear, immediately before you stop or when you are stationary (if the situation warrants it). Any time a car is in neutral the driver is not in full control of all the cars functions, principally the ability to accelerate if required.

For myself the car remains in gear as you slow (to a stop for a red in this example), with the clutch being depressed close to the point the car stops, putting the car in first or neutral when stopped. Now how close to the cars stopping point will depend on the car and the drivers familiarity with manual use. I would only put the car in neutral if the wait at the stop sign or lights appears to be a long one, for a short stop I would leave it in first, ready to pull away.

The logic behind this is that full control of the car remains with the driver for as much of the time that its moving as possible.

Alright, on my drive to work today I kept it in gear much longer while off the gas, and it made total sense now that I'm actually not wasting gas, I could feel it just spinning and not using power.

So, Scaff, when you come to a stop, what you do is you keep the car in say fourth gear as you apply pressure to the brake pedal, and then lets say you downshift to second gear (assuming you do the rev matching thing). Now you are still slowing down, in second gear, and now you are nearing the actual light, so you are pushing down on the clutch a slight bit while still rolling and still in second? Then when you come to a stop you keep it in gear and pop it in first or keep it in first if it was already there, car never goes into neutral except during a gear change.

So that brings me to ask.. if the car is running but not moving, i.e. at a stop light, is it fully okay to hold the clutch in partway for a while and keep it in gear? Because it seems that I have been taught contrary.

NEVER wait for the light with the car in gear and the clutch depressed. Not clutch wear, so much as throwout bearing wear. Use neutral and release the clutch. Get ready to go when you see the cross-traffic light go yellow.
NEVER rest your foot on the clutch pedal, even slightly. EXTREME throwout bearing wear.

Generally, to extend the life of the clutch, don't use it except when it's supposed to be used, during the actual shift.

Not only have I heard not to do that before, but it's in this thread.

Either I am interpreting you wrong, or you two are at odds with each other.

Its seems ok, but assuming that you are trying to slow down here, the braking phase seems to be missing.

Ammended to add that, it would look like this.

I let off the gas and as the car slows I press in the clutch. As the clutch is pressed down, I put the car into neutral. As I'm doing this I blip the trottle slightly, while maintaining steady braking pressure. I still have the clutch all the way down (hasn't moved) and I'm still in the motion of changing gears, now I keep pushing the lever and then I drop it into third, and finally release the clutch as I continue to brake. I get back on the gas when the car is at the correct speed (and now gear) to take the corner, etc.

The gear-change should be done during the braking phase not separate to it.

Regards

Scaff

Ah I need to master heel-toe, double clutching, and rev matching. But they go hand in hand so at least it's not three separate techniques.
 
So, Scaff, when you come to a stop, what you do is you keep the car in say fourth gear as you apply pressure to the brake pedal, and then lets say you downshift to second gear (assuming you do the rev matching thing). Now you are still slowing down, in second gear, and now you are nearing the actual light, so you are pushing down on the clutch a slight bit while still rolling and still in second? Then when you come to a stop you keep it in gear and pop it in first or keep it in first if it was already there, car never goes into neutral except during a gear change.
That pretty much sums it up (and yes I always rev match/heel & toe downshifts), its normally in the last few feet that I would engage the clutch, leaving it that late does depend on the car and driver, it does take a bit of practice.



So that brings me to ask.. if the car is running but not moving, i.e. at a stop light, is it fully okay to hold the clutch in partway for a while and keep it in gear? Because it seems that I have been taught contrary.
Not partway, that would result in quite massive clutch wear and after a while a rather strong smell (mmmmmm burning clutch). What I meant was I will hold the clutch in all the way and (if required) use the foot brake to hold the car in place. If the duration I am going to be stopped for is more than 5 seconds or so I would put the car in neutral.

I always use the footbrake to keep a car stationary at a stop sign/red light. I know that people are taught to use the handbrake, but after I was hit up the back while waiting at a roundabout (and using the handbrake) I started to always use the foot brake. The reason is that the other driver tried to argue that he thought I was pulling away as no brake lights were showing, by using the foot brake it leaves any driver behind in no doubt that you are stopped.


Either I am interpreting you wrong, or you two are at odds with each other.
To a degree we are, in that I will stop with the car in gear for short periods of time, but I don't pay for work done on my car (the company do). That said I have done this for over 84,000 miles in my Celica and never had a single problem with the clutch or any other part of the drivetrain.

Regards

Scaff
 
Okay so I drive a 2nd gen Ford Probe GT also, manual, I just got it and I'm still relatively new to manual.

When I'm in first gear and going slow, I find I have to 'ride the clutch' in parking lots sometimes because otherwise the car lurches... when I'm behind someone going slow I find I have to do it otherwise I stall. Is that correct?

When I slow down (red light) I tend to just pop it into neutral and then brake to a stop. When I see the cross-traffic stop, I hold down the clutch and put it into the first. A few seconds later when the light goes green I start off. Is that correct?

When I slow down to make a turn, say from 4th gear to 2nd.. I typically slow down and let the car get down to 2,000 or 1,500 rpms and then I push in the clutch, select 2nd, hold it and release it slowly as I make my turn, and as I start to leave the turn (while I'm slowly letting off the clutch) I slowly give it more throttle. Now apparently I need to blip the throttle as I'm pushing in the clutch by doing heel-toe in order to match the revs. What I want to know is, how bad is my current method? If smoeone can reply in detail to me or pm I would be most appreciative 👍

In heavy traffic, use a different technique than with an automatic. If you're creeping along at less than 1000 or 1200 RPM in 1st, then stop and get neutral until you have a coupla lengths to move again. Don't move slowly by slipping the clutch. Slipping the clutch is BAD. And try not to wait for traffic with the car in gear and the clutch down. That's throwout bearing stress, and like I've said, that's usually the actual failure when you get clutch problems.

The Probe will just about idle in 1st. 1st is almost a granny gear. 2nd through 5th are fairly close ratios, but 1st to 3rd is a bit of a jump. I've described it as a 6-speed with second gear missing.
 
It makes everyday driving so much smoother. When I'm just cruising around and I brake for a turn and downshift a small blip of the throttle and theres no sudden lunge forward, which is more comfortable for passengers (especially girls who don't understand why the car has 3 pedals to begin with) and braking more stable. Not to mention the wear your saving on drivetrain components when done correctly. When I start autocrossing in the spring i'll give heel toeing a try on the course, and see if it keeps my car more stable during braking or even lowers my time.

The first part of this post is pure opinion so that's cool. The quoted part however is unclear.

You say you revmatch when going around a corner. This is very smart and pretty much needed for smooth driving. What I was talking about is that driving around town, 2 downshifts instead of 1 is done just becuase the driver wants to and serves no real purpose.

I can pretty much tell you that unless you have an extremely tight gear ratio, heel-toe downshifts, or downshifts in general are not needed on autocrosses. :)
 
That pretty much sums it up (and yes I always rev match/heel & toe downshifts), its normally in the last few feet that I would engage the clutch, leaving it that late does depend on the car and driver, it does take a bit of practice.

Yeah I typically engage the clutch much sooner than that but I am slowly learning the braking and stalling points of my car.

Not partway, that would result in quite massive clutch wear and after a while a rather strong smell (mmmmmm burning clutch). What I meant was I will hold the clutch in all the way and (if required) use the foot brake to hold the car in place. If the duration I am going to be stopped for is more than 5 seconds or so I would put the car in neutral.

I always use the footbrake to keep a car stationary at a stop sign/red light. I know that people are taught to use the handbrake, but after I was hit up the back while waiting at a roundabout (and using the handbrake) I started to always use the foot brake. The reason is that the other driver tried to argue that he thought I was pulling away as no brake lights were showing, by using the foot brake it leaves any driver behind in no doubt that you are stopped.

Oh, okay that makes much more sense now. I only keep it in first for like stop signs and when I approach red lights that I can see are turning green.

I use the brake unless it's a hill that slopes as such that I will run into the guy behind me when I let off the brake, and if it to the degree that I fear my car will roll too much I use the handbrake and the brake. When it turns green I slowly let off the handbrake as I'm slowly letting off the clutch and applying gas, like normal, of course with the addition of the handbrake.

In heavy traffic, use a different technique than with an automatic. If you're creeping along at less than 1000 or 1200 RPM in 1st, then stop and get neutral until you have a coupla lengths to move again. Don't move slowly by slipping the clutch. Slipping the clutch is BAD. And try not to wait for traffic with the car in gear and the clutch down. That's throwout bearing stress, and like I've said, that's usually the actual failure when you get clutch problems.

The Probe will just about idle in 1st. 1st is almost a granny gear. 2nd through 5th are fairly close ratios, but 1st to 3rd is a bit of a jump. I've described it as a 6-speed with second gear missing.

Alright, thanks for the tips. Your description is something I haven't noticed yet but then you have more experience than me.

+rep to Sage and wfooshee. I'd give some to Scaff also but I was instructed to 'spread some more around' first :)
 
I can pretty much tell you that unless you have an extremely tight gear ratio, heel-toe downshifts, or downshifts in general are not needed on autocrosses. :)

Agreed. Heel and toe works best on a car with a light flywheel. My old diesel engineed car had pedals ideally placed for heel and toe. Unfortunately the vehicles revs rose and fell so slowly a quick 'blip' of the throttle just wasn't possible. Rev matching on down shifts was just about suitable, so i usually just settled for that.
 
Agreed. Heel and toe works best on a car with a light flywheel. My old diesel engineed car had pedals ideally placed for heel and toe. Unfortunately the vehicles revs rose and fell so slowly a quick 'blip' of the throttle just wasn't possible. Rev matching on down shifts was just about suitable, so i usually just settled for that.

That and the fact that you don't usually get to much fast then 40mph in AutoX and most cars can do that in second gear. :)
 
I always use the footbrake to keep a car stationary at a stop sign/red light. I know that people are taught to use the handbrake, but after I was hit up the back while waiting at a roundabout (and using the handbrake) I started to always use the foot brake. The reason is that the other driver tried to argue that he thought I was pulling away as no brake lights were showing, by using the foot brake it leaves any driver behind in no doubt that you are stopped.
I’m always afraid of that happening to me, so any time I use the handbrake at a stop (which is rare), I’ll usually rest my foot on the footbrake just enough to switch on the brake lights.
 
That and the fact that you don't usually get to much fast then 40mph in AutoX and most cars can do that in second gear. :)

Heel and toe, double declutching, left foot braking are all very well and good - but like you said, it's going to give you no advantage in a AutoX arena.
 
Heel and toe, double declutching, left foot braking are all very well and good - but like you said, it's going to give you no advantage in a AutoX arena.

Actualy, in some cases, Left footbraking can help to set you up nicely in AutoX. :) But everything else you mentioned is quite right.

Where does the 'biting point' come into this?

Uh, it is the point pretty much. I'm not understanding the question.
 
Where does the 'biting point' come into this?

I believe that is the point at which, when you start to disengage the clutch, the gear will start to 'bite'. So that's when you need to start giving it gas, otherwise it will stall on you. On every clutch I've ever driven, there's a point about oh a 1/4 way up where it will start grabbing.
 
That and the fact that you don't usually get to much fast then 40mph in AutoX and most cars can do that in second gear. :)

Off topic: If there isn't room to get an SS, AS, BS or FS car up to ~60, then the course or venue is too tight :P

My 330i was bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd at the last one I went to in E-town. That's 68 mph. :scared:

On topic: Heel-toe can be useful at an autocross in certain situations like when negotiating a 'turnaround' cone: One cone on in the middle of nowhere you must go out, drive around it and come back to the rest of the course. Most cars need 1st for that.


M
 
Off topic: If there isn't room to get an SS, AS, BS or FS car up to ~60, then the course or venue is too tight :P

My 330i was bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd at the last one I went to in E-town. That's 68 mph. :scared:

On topic: Heel-toe can be useful at an autocross in certain situations like when negotiating a 'turnaround' cone: One cone on in the middle of nowhere you must go out, drive around it and come back to the rest of the course. Most cars need 1st for that.


M

Thanks...there you go guys. M-spec certainly has more experience in AutoX then me so I would go with his opinion over mine in this case. :D
 
My 330i was bouncing off the rev limiter in 2nd at the last one I went to in E-town. That's 68 mph. :scared:
Really? When I still had my Neon, I could run about that in 2nd and still not be at redline yet. :confused:
 
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