DTM and Super GT merge regulations from 2014?!.

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Surely it would be a good way to position the 'Stang against the 4 Series, the A/S/RS5, and the C Coupe.



I would imagine they can buy the chassis from Dallara, just as the German Trio do.

I'm led to believe the current NSX was built using that very setup
 
Mondeo has had a V6 before, v8 be no worry. And in Nascar granted it's silhouette but we've had a darn Camry for crying out.
 
I don't understand why the US manufacturers aren't getting behind this. It would've been great to see 3 USA vs 3 German vs 3 Japanese marques all battling it out in at least 3 different championships (granted, they're not really much different to each other underneath so the marque is fairly irrelevant but it would've been great) :(
 
I don't understand why the US manufacturers aren't getting behind this.
Because it's not in line with their interests. They don't want to invest time and resources in developing cars to compete with rival manufacturers from overseas, only for those rival manufacturers - who have considerably more experience in the category - to beat them on American soil, which would kill interest in the category before it had a chance to compete with NASCAR and/or USSC, which would be an even bigger fight.

You're approaching this from the point of view of a racing fan, which is understandable - but the manufacturers will approach this from a business perspective.
 
Plus, why would they care to compete in the first place even if they were immediately competitive? No one in America would watch it.
 
Ford Europe might be a better shout than Ford USA but as this is a German-Japanese affair it still looks unlikely because Ford haven't been in German touring car racing since the early 1980s.
 
Plus, why would they care to compete in the first place even if they were immediately competitive? No one in America would watch it.
I dont agree. Class 1 as its titled, features 6 major auto manufacturers. SuperGT has gained a lot in popularity over the last few years. Nissan is helping to set up an english broadcast with Radio LeMans. Why would no one in America watch?
 
Because NASCAR exists and has the vast majority of the motorsports market in the US. USDTM would end up as a support series to TUSCC, a la PWC, and get almost no air time whatsoever.
 
Because NASCAR exists and has the vast majority of the motorsports market in the US. USDTM would end up as a support series to TUSCC, a la PWC, and get almost no air time whatsoever.
Trans Am and TUSC are in the Nascar frame. PWC is not a support series to TUSC, they run alongside Indycar. US DTM wont be dtm, itll probably be called class 1. We can all make assumptions about what fate it will have, it doesnt make them true. It all depends on how its marketed and what the manufacturers want as a race package. Theyre not going to start dominating tv time, no one running the show expects that. You cant find a series in the US or the world with 6 factory teams running the same car type. Not F1, WEC, Nascar etc. Only gt3 has as much variety but theyre not 'factory' teams. Maybe you guys are not so excited about it, but I am.
 
I dont agree. Class 1 as its titled, features 6 major auto manufacturers. SuperGT has gained a lot in popularity over the last few years. Nissan is helping to set up an english broadcast with Radio LeMans. Why would no one in America watch?
Because if people want to see a spec series for a bunch of cars that only look like the cars they are supposed to represent in the minds of the people in marketing departments, they'll just watch NASCAR.


And the only US manufacturer who does have a consistent and large factory presence in racing outside of Nascar is GM; so the question there is how does sinking a bunch of money (certainly more than they spend on any other Non-NASCAR racing series) to gain the ability of losing a bunch of DTM races to foreign makes with a car with no relationship to anything they make help them sell anything to the handful of people who would actually watch the first year? Especially if winning with the cars they have in USC (a series that actually does get decent-ish media coverage and GM gets a lot of mileage out of) already doesn't do that?
 
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Trans Am and TUSC are in the Nascar frame. PWC is not a support series to TUSC, they run alongside Indycar. US DTM wont be dtm, itll probably be called class 1. We can all make assumptions about what fate it will have, it doesnt make them true. It all depends on how its marketed and what the manufacturers want as a race package. Theyre not going to start dominating tv time, no one running the show expects that. You cant find a series in the US or the world with 6 factory teams running the same car type. Not F1, WEC, Nascar etc. Only gt3 has as much variety but theyre not 'factory' teams. Maybe you guys are not so excited about it, but I am.
One correction though...Trans Am is a step below the PWC in the SCCA and really isn't worth talking about except the neat new cars coming out. Trans Am is now one of the many lower ranked SCCA championships. PWC has taken its place as the premier series and while it is "supporting" Indycar its home to America's best GT racing.
 
Because if people want to see a spec series for a bunch of cars that only look like the cars they are supposed to represent in the minds of the people in marketing departments, they'll just watch NASCAR.


And the only US manufacturer who does have a consistent and large factory presence in racing outside of Nascar is GM; so the question there is how does sinking a bunch of money (certainly more than they spend on any other Non-NASCAR racing series) to gain the ability of losing a bunch of DTM races to foreign makes with a car with no relationship to anything they make help them sell anything to the handful of people who would actually watch the first year? Especially if winning with the cars they have in USC (a series that actually does get decent-ish media coverage and GM gets a lot of mileage out of) already doesn't do that?
Dtm regs are relatively inexpensive. Theyre not completely 'spec' in class one either. No control tire, no spec body, no spec constructor etc. GM has a brand in Cadillac that would compete right in line with the german 3 on top of it, Lexus and Acura. Your questions arent an answer to my question of why wouldnt anyone watch. We cant assume no one would want to watch or attend because GM or Ford isnt (yet) involved, or because its 'spec' (even though its not) or it has no solid tv package (which could change). That certainly doesnt mean it will have no fans or viewers. Thats what marketing is for. Thats why plans are in place to run with other racing series' to gain interest.

One correction though...Trans Am is a step below the PWC in the SCCA and really isn't worth talking about except the neat new cars coming out. Trans Am is now one of the many lower ranked SCCA championships. PWC has taken its place as the premier series and while it is "supporting" Indycar its home to America's best GT racing.
I meant trans-am runs with the Nascar support crowd while PWC does the Indy support.
 
dtm regs are relatively inexpensive.
It's expensive enough that the SuperGT half of the current series needed at least one factory team based in America to justify even showing up to race. That means those teams that already have cars built and racing programs already established and budgeted for still can't justify the expense of racing in America unless an American company can build up excitement for the series domestically. And compared to throwing together a few Corvettes or Vipers to (successfully) run around a dozen races a year (and the easy marketing that comes from having that car you actually sell in showrooms be successful against its international competitors on racetracks), I can't imagine it is particularly inexpensive, no.

GM has a brand in Cadillac that would compete right in line with the german 3 on top of it, Lexus and Acura.
I wonder if any of these theoretical Cadillac race cars would have "burnt to the ground once" end up constantly dogging the public perception of their racing capability like what happened the last time GM tried to use Cadillac to stage an international racing effort against other luxury brands.

Theyre not completely 'spec' in class one either. No control tire, no spec body, no spec constructor etc.
or because its 'spec' (even though its not)
That's such needless pedantry on your part that it only hurts your argument. I didn't say they were "completely spec". I said it was a spec series, which it is just like regular DTM had been before.

Your questions arent an answer to my question of why wouldnt anyone watch.
Except I already did. If people in America want to watch a bunch of silhouette race cars drive around for a few hours, they watch NASCAR; and even that has been on the backslide. What makes an American DTM series any different from the near-irrelevance Trans Am has had for the past 15 years trying to do the same thing? IRL has really taken off in terms of quality of racing and variety since the CART implosion and re-merger and undoubtedly gained a lot of viewers who had defected, but the series is still in a constant struggle. How is DTM going to succeed when racing series' with major historical automotive racing events have only just carved out a profitable niche on the American market? Keep in mind that USC (like ALMS before it) is as popular as it is largely because the manufacturers (most notably GM) want it to be popular, and throws a lot of marketing effort behind their efforts in the series; and there was still considerable worry when Speed TV was shut down that the series just wouldn't be on television anymore.


And, again, what are the benefits for the American manufacturers, whose support is so crucial that if they don't show up it doesn't happen?

We cant assume no one would want to watch
We can actually make a very reasonable assumption that enough people in America wouldn't bother with it to justify launching the series, based on the fact that without an American company involved the Japanese half of DTM want nothing to do with it. That doesn't sound to me like the people who are actually in charge of the regulations have much faith in this supposed popularity.

or attend because GM or Ford isnt (yet) involved,
I wonder when the "yet" portion will be met, since USC has been courting American manufacturers for a year and a half so they could start with rollout stuff next year, but have thus fair failed to attract any commitments even though their taking part is a prerequisite for it to even happen.

or it has no solid tv package (which could change).
It "could change"? That's great. So who's the buyer for that TV package for the new racing series with complete apathy from American automotive companies, filled with cars that barely look like anything on the road and drivers no one has heard of? IRL struggles to get a third of their races on a channel accessible to people without mid-grade cable packages, and I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that you would never see the series on ESPN. I mean, I assume NBC Sports Network could end up with it, but that just means that the series would have to compete for airtime directly with the three top NASCAR series for the second half of the season on the channels that inherited all of the NASCAR stuff from Speed; and that's an increasingly crowded space to occupy since they also show most of the Formula One season and most of the IRL season. Fox Sports 1 is basically the series' best shot at anything and probably where it would end up since they will already have the USC package and USC would undoubtedly lobby hard to link the two up; but then they will have to shuffle it around baseball, NASCAR and USC races and the other very long term series commitments FS1 entered when it was rebranded from Speed. And if it ended up on Fox Sports 2, it might as well not have bothered.

That certainly doesnt mean it will have no fans or viewers. Thats what marketing is for.
I wonder if this "marketing" thing could have saved CART.

Thats why plans are in place to run with other racing series' to gain interest.
Yes. An international-minded racing series that would require factory backing to get off the ground will truly get the popularity it needs when it's basically acting as a support race for something people actually came to see. That's why we've had almost 20 straight years of the North American Touring Car Championship to enjoy.













If one of the American manufacturers (meaning GM) could figure out a way to justify the expense of entering the series and try to force relevance and interest through their own channels (like they influenced with ALMS since the Corvette Racing program was started), the series could potentially take off in spite of itself. GM is even even on a real racing kick now that the C7 Corvette is creating such huge buzz, and they would undoubtedly love to get some other more "normal" car of theirs to do the same (next generation Camaro?). And they still didn't. That either means that they don't think the series would be popular enough to justify the effort (and the fact that the Japanese SuperGT teams feel the same way if they don't get domestic support implies that to be the case), or the expense with entering the series as a new team racing against teams that have already been their for long enough to get settled in (most of them since before the regulations were finalized) are being understated; or maybe some combination. Regardless of the true reason, the end result is the same; and the foreign branches of the series are truly mad if they are trying to hold out for all three manufacturers to compete because it would never be popular enough to get that much manufacturer support when even NASCAR doesn't have it anymore.
 
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Point 1. Our opinion is not fact. When you present it as such your argument is ruined.

Point 2. All this is hypothetical. Your scenario as well as mine. It remains just that, an opinion, no matter how much we type. If it becomes popular in America or flops is not down to opinionated posts on a forum, just time will tell.

Point 3. For a new series to gain interest in a new market, it has to have exposure. The best way to do that is to run with a series thats already been viewed and has an established fan base. That being TUSC, which has a tv package and is one of the parties trying to get this off the ground.

Last thing I want to say is when I use your words like "spec series" and say it isnt, why backpedal it? Then you said theres no American presence in international racing besides GM, but Ford have just aligned all their racing divisions (including Europe) under one name. Chrysler/Viper has GT3 cars racing in Europe. What does having an international presence in racing have to do with an America based 'dtm' series? You bring up CART as a series that has no relevance to this to justify a response to me saying "marketing". CART wasnt a proposed brand new series with an internationally backed ruleset already. It didnt have 6 auto manufacturers. Im not saying what you think is absolutely wrong. Im not saying it will definitely come to be. Im not thinking its going to be a success! Im being optimistic because the parties involved seem to be.

I dont think we need to argue over a difference of opinion. If it fails or not is yet to be seen. Im just more than willing to give it a chance.
 
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