Dunlop MSA BTCC 2011

  • Thread starter Furinkazen
  • 314 comments
  • 32,825 views
Ardius
....but this one is very interesting reading, as always there is so much we never know about that goes on behind the scenes. Reading all this only multiplies my respect for what Welch managed with the Proton!
Click to expand...

Indeed, see if he can make a book out of it, how he and his team created a BTCC team out of nothing with that achievement, I'll buy it and read it every single day. It's enjoyable and how humble the team is...

Guys, any news whether any of the BMW teams will have the new 320TC by next year?
 
InvincibleM5
Guys, any news whether any of the BMW teams will have the new 320TC by next year?
Click to expand...

GSR ran one for the finale at Silverstone, driven by Tony Gilham. I guess they'll be running it next year.

I think the BMW brand in the BTCC is done until they develop a new car for the touring car classes. None of the smaller teams will be able to take the ageing E90 car to the top with BMW's slightly half-assed 320TC conversion. It would need a top team, and even then I think they'd struggle.

It's a big shame, I love touring cars, and I love BMW, but it takes the edge off it when the cars a slipping down the grid year after year. At this stage it looks unlikely that there will be any factory built touring cars (aside from DTM) for a few years :( :( :(

Unless.... 116TC ..
 
Yeah they ran one, but didn't even finish all three races especially the incident in the second race.

I understand the situation now regarding BMW's future in Touring Car. I think even if they have the 320TC I wouldn't expect them to straight away beat the Hondas and Chevys. Touring car without BMW is just... Different. Maybe with the F30 but since BMW factory is no longer associating with World Touring Car so I guess they wouldn't make them. It's down to the privateers but I think even the privateers would take something else than the BMW.

FWD now is the way for Touring car. These short races are just not competitive enough for the endurance style BMW's RWD layout. They struggled to find the grip in the first 10 laps and the remaining 5-10 laps are just not enough for them to recover the time lost and fight for positions. The tyres seem to just favour the FWD more than the RWD. What if the tyres favours the RWD, that'd mean the FWD cars will struggle like hell.

Hopefully WSR will be able to find a budget and get the 320TC. If there's no longer a BMW by next year, guess I'll be down to the Welsh boys then :(
 
Geoff Steel didn't run a 320TC, they ran a 320si with a NGTC-turbo engine conversion. As I understand it, the 320TC is simply a small conversion to comply with 2011 WTCC regulations. These are different to BTCC regulations now, especially engines.
I believe they are planning to run it again next year. But I don't know if Gilham has the budget again or if Geoff Steel will find another driver.
So certainly there will be a BMW on the grid next year. But its not likely to be hugely competitive.

Someone needs to make a NGTC BMW basically, the 320si is too old now. It was amazing enough that Collard and Foster managed all the results they did last year.

And RWD hasn't died. Rob Austin's Audis are RWD.
 
Last edited:
Ardius
Geoff Steel didn't run a 320TC, they ran a 320si with a NGTC-turbo engine conversion. As I understand it, the 320TC is simply a small conversion to comply with 2011 WTCC regulations. These are different to BTCC regulations now, especially engines.
Click to expand...

Okey Doke, I knew there was something different about it, made the assumption.

Ardius
I believe they are planning to run it again next year. But I don't know if Gilham has the budget again or if Geoff Steel will find another driver.
Click to expand...

I hope it's Gilham, I met him in Buddies in Towcester briefly after the Silverstone round and he seemed like a nice bloke!

Ardius
And RWD hasn't died. Rob Austin's Audis are RWD.
Click to expand...

Ha, yes..... maybe 'Competitive RWD' has died. I remember talking to Mat Jackson after Thruxton last year, and he expressed his 'frustration' that all the FWD drivers had to do, was keep their foot in and let the ass end drag along on the rear wheels, but the RWD guys had to suffer waiting an eternity to get on the power fully. With the competitive advantage of RWD off the line taken away, it's difficult to make a case for RWD in BTCC at the moment.

Either way, I'm sad, I dislike the 1.6 turbos, and the E90 320Si WTCC is one of my favourite racing cars of all time. If BMW's do fade from the BTCC, my interest is likely to also.
 
The BTCC did give back (or rather remove the restriction) the 1st gear ratios to all RWD cars part way through this year. So they do have their start line advantage back.
Foster, Collard, Gilham and Austin have all been making mega starts most of this year because of it.

Austin very nearly won a race this year thanks to the advantages of RWD - its not just the 1st gear off the start line. There is also benefits to tyre wear as the wear is more evenly distributed, so the RWD cars only get faster near the end of the race.
The disadvantages are that it takes longer to get the RWD cars up to temperature and as you mention they are more difficult to control on the edge. So while they get a start line advantage, the first few laps are the worst for RWD.
 
Ardius
The BTCC did give back (or rather remove the restriction) the 1st gear ratios to all RWD cars part way through this year. So they do have their start line advantage back.
Foster, Collard, Gilham and Austin have all been making mega starts most of this year because of it.

Austin very nearly won a race this year thanks to the advantages of RWD - its not just the 1st gear off the start line. There is also benefits to tyre wear as the wear is more evenly distributed, so the RWD cars only get faster near the end of the race.
The disadvantages are that it takes longer to get the RWD cars up to temperature and as you mention they are more difficult to control on the edge. So while they get a start line advantage, the first few laps are the worst for RWD.
Click to expand...

Again, I was making an assumption that the 1st gear ratios were still altered. To be honest, other than the rounds I went to spectate at this year (Thruxton, Snetterton & Silverstone) I haven't really watched much of the 2011 season (in favour of spectating at other events), and the rounds I do spectate at, I'm normally way too busy trying to set my Exposure time, aperture and ISO to really notice who's faster off the line! Judging by the results something about the RWD formula isn't working, and although Austin did seem to pick-up a bit after his very poor start to the season, if Collard in a WSR E90 only managed 8th for the season and is the highest placed RWD entry, NGTC engined BMW's will have an aweful lot of ground to make up next year. I dearly hope I'm wrong as I'd love for the BMW's to be at the front again, I just can't see it happening.
 
Oh I agree that RWD is unlikely to be successful, though thats not because the regulations don't allow it to be successful, its because most of the teams run FWD and only the Audis currently are up-to-date RWD cars. If half of the grid ran RWD, chances are one would win.
I think the problem really lies in that not many commercial mass-produced roadcars are RWD. I don't know if its still part of the regulations, but don't the cars have to mirror most of their roadcar equivelants in things such as drivetrain?
You certainly can't enter a convertable for example and the base model has to fit particular dimensions (hence why the Proton isn't the more popular hatchback version). This brings with it limitations on the types of models and hence there are more FWD as there are simply more FWD roadcars.
I seem to remember though that Rob Austin mentioned they chose to go RWD instead of FWD, so there probably aren't roadcar-related drivetrain restrictions. But I think the lack of connection of RWD cars to roadcars is part of the issue as well as the obvious advantages of using FWD in Touring Cars.

I would agree that RWD is close to dying out. But lets wait and see who and what enters in future. For all we know BMW could give some factory backing to WSR or GSR to build a NGTC car just as Toyota have done behind the scenes with the Dynojet and Speedworks Avensis.
 
Austin was only allowed to choose RWD because the base A4 he based his car off was 4WD.
 
Now its the end of the year, its nice to look back at some of the great races this year;



This was a fantastic race to attend. I naturally didn't catch a lot of the action until I watched it back later at home but I was present to see Lea Wood battle his way to the top 10 in the old Integra, Boardman's charge and then Jeff Smith's collision with Boardman. The rain coming down moments before the race set a great atmosphere as everyone at the track knew we were about to see something special.

Anyone else got a favourite of this season?
 
Ardius
Geoff Steel didn't run a 320TC, they ran a 320si with a NGTC-turbo engine conversion. As I understand it, the 320TC is simply a small conversion to comply with 2011 WTCC regulations. These are different to BTCC regulations now, especially engines.
I believe they are planning to run it again next year. But I don't know if Gilham has the budget again or if Geoff Steel will find another driver.
So certainly there will be a BMW on the grid next year. But its not likely to be hugely competitive.

Someone needs to make a NGTC BMW basically, the 320si is too old now. It was amazing enough that Collard and Foster managed all the results they did last year.

And RWD hasn't died. Rob Austin's Audis are RWD.
Click to expand...

Even if GSR don't make it with a Turbo Diesel Beemer, it is said WSR will if they don't follow Team Aon into the WTC.
 
Well I can confirm that Geoff Steel are definitely trying to continue next year with the NGTC-turbo BMW as they are currently advertising for a driver in a recent issue of Autosport. So (assuming they do find a driver), at least we have some confirmation of at least one BMW.

WSR are unlikely to follow Arena to WTCC, they have struggled to find the funds to run before - though they clearly would like to, seeing as several WSR engineers helped out Wiechers.

I think the real question is whether WSR run BMWs again - there have been rumours of MG returning and WSR have obvious links to that. If they get new cars, they will be NGTC I reckon (I doubt they will run S2000 cars like the '10 Focus or the '11 "World Focus") otherwise they will run the BMWs. There's little point in spending money and time trying to make a different S2000 car work when they are going to be phased out at the end of 2012.
For this reason, I doubt we will see many of the midfield teams like WSR, tech-Speed, Eurotech (already confirmed anyway), etc running anything other than NGTC. The difficulty is finding the funds to develop a NGTC when you have to tell the sponsors not to expect real results until at least mid-way through the year.

On a related note, the current cars up for sale that I've seen are:
3 Motorbase (Mat Jackson, Liam Griffin, Michael Caine/James Thompson) Ford Focus.
1 Central Racing (Lea Wood) Honda Integra
1 ES Racing (Chris James) Chevrolet Lacetti
2 888 (James Nash, various) Vauxhall Vectras
1 Geoff Steel (Dave Newsham/Tony Gilham) BMW 320si

So there are plenty of S2000 (and the BTC-T Integra) cars being sold. I hope Lea Wood is upgrading to something reasonably decent such as the 2010 Focus or the 2011 Civic (if possible).
I also hope tech-Speed manage to keep going despite sinking so much money into those 2010 Cruzes this year.
 
Last edited:
Won't Motorbase maybe get a "Global" Ford, maybe the ex-Team AON cars (presuming Team Aon are going with a updated spec car for next year)?
 
There is a rumour floating around that with Arena moving to WTCC, that Ford are trying to get Motorbase to buy the 2011 Global Focus and become the de facto Ford team.

But there are also rumours about Volvo and MG floating around too. Honestly, without a good deal of backing from Ford, I can't see Motorbase spending the money trying to make the Global Focus work only to be left needing another new car for 2013.

It wouldn't be completely surprising for Motorbase to run them though.
 

Latest Posts

Back